LNH,

I SO much want to see light, too. I'm not sure what I see right now.

At least I did one positive thing yesterday. I was miserable with a sinus infection trying to come on, so actually made it a priority to get to bed before 1am. I took a Benedryl along with the reduced-dose Xanax (I'm weaning myself off) and I was asleep by around 11pm. I got a full 8 hours of sleep last night, and actually slept very good, and do physically feel much better today.

WH called this morning to check on DD. Told him I fell asleep and didn't have a chance to raid her room for razorblades, but will try tonight. Also said she seems okay right now, but that to look at her arm and to know that it's probably going to be permanently scarred makes me ill. Told him he could look at it, too, when he picks her up from school on Friday.

He didn't have much to say, but did mention that he thinks he's giving notice on his apartment tomorrow. I told him again, that I love him, that I want our marriage, but to not let me force him to do anything he doesn't want to do.

I hope I'm not pushing him the wrong direction. I just don't want him to feel trapped (something Dr. Dobson mentions in his "love must be tough" book). If he feels trapped, I want it to be the OW who makes him feel that way.

All I can do is pray that if he sees me pulling back, that at the same time if she thinks things are ending between us, that she'll latch on that much tighter and LB with him.

If he does give notice, I'm still not sure what that means. It could mean he ends contact with OW, too, or that she'll get angry because she knows he's moving back home. Or it could mean he plays with her for another month and then ends contact. Or (my biggest fear), it could mean he gives up that apartment but he can't give up OW, and he and she end up finding a house in the country that he's locked in more pemanently to, and they end up moving in together full time.

I don't know exactly what I should do, or how to play it right now. I'm trying to keep Dr. Chalmer's advice and not call him (and except for yesterday afternoon, I've done well. He's called me.) I'm trying to be peaceful on the phone and not LB.

I guess that's about all I can do--and pray, pray, pray!! If he doesn't give notice tomorrow, then nothing will change. If he does give notice, then he will be forced within 30 days to make some kind of decision one way or the other.

LL

LL, You did well. There is not much we can do except pray, pray and pray.

Well, today is the 31st, and so far all I know is that WH is angry and hasn't given notice. I left him a quick txt from the Verizon website this morning because I forgot my cell phone at home. He always gets angry when I don't answer it, so I wanted him to know that if he tried to call I didn't have it with me.

He called me and said, angerly, "What'd you want!?"

I didn't want anything--just to tell him about the phone. But I did mention I found and confiscated another razor blade in DD's room. I asked if he'd given notice. He said, "no, not yet.". I just said "Okay" and we hung up.

Now what? I've been calm this morning--telling myself I can't make his decisions for him. What if he thinks that my turn around where I'm not telling him it's his choice and that I'm not pressuring him is me being cold and not caring?

I just left him a voice message (I'm sure he's at lunch with OW right now) telling him I'm not trying to be cold, but only trying to give him his space to make his decision, that while I don't know how he feels about me, I do still love him and I do want to get to know him again and work on our marriage. I told him that I need him, the kids need him, and that we want him back if he decides that. That I'm praying for strength for him to make the right decisions, and that I love him and I miss him.

Not sure what else to do. Long day ahead of me just sitting and waiting.

LL

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL, stay calm. I will pray for you. I am sorry I can come up with solution for you. But I am always thinking about you.

Ok, Ok, there is nothing to play...this is not a game...there is no way you can change his mind or MAKE him do ANYTHING.

All along your major motivation has been "How will this effect him?" You have been worried about how your actions will effect him...will it MAKE him DO some actions or another...

STOP IT!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You have NO CONTROL over this situation. There is NOTHING you can do to change his mind. You are desperate and want things to be different...don't we all. And he is the only one that has to change to make things different?

What can you do this instant to make things different in your M. You have hinted at some of your LB's that got the M here...have you really explored that?

What are your biggest LB's? What are you doing to completely stop them?

You are calling him again? You are panicked...SO WHAT if he decides to get a house...SO WHAT if he comes home...if he does, it is because HE made the choice, not because you did or didn't call him today. If anything, your calling is pushing him away.

Your DD has a wonderful and caring mother. Have you laid down on her bed with her cuddling her with the lights out and telling her how scared you are for the way she is hurting herself? You can confiscate all the blades you want...she can get more. You can talk with her about why she does it, nad ask her if she wants to continue. If she really wants help, you can help her, if she doesn't want help...there is nothing you can do (well, not exactly, but close). If she wants help with this...and this is important...ask her how you can help...do not give unsolicitated advice.

You have been the Queen Bee for too long...everyone obeying your orders...you are the only one with all the right answers and no one has questioned your throne. Get off your throne, what kind of a M is that? Your H can live his own life...if you don't beleive that, he will.
Give up your power that you *think* you have over everyone's lives. Ask permission to give advice...take no for an answer...

and most important of all......work on yourself!!!


Sorry to be so harsh. You are spinning into the same trash heap you've been in before and blaming other people for getting you there...

SHMI,

Your DD has a wonderful and caring mother. Have you laid down on her bed with her cuddling her with the lights out and telling her how scared you are for the way she is hurting herself? You can confiscate all the blades you want...she can get more. You can talk with her about why she does it, nad ask her if she wants to continue. If she really wants help, you can help her, if she doesn't want help...there is nothing you can do (well, not exactly, but close). If she wants help with this...and this is important...ask her how you can help...do not give unsolicitated advice.

I've tried to be close to her. She pushes me away. I guess it's "uncool" for a rebellious teenager to hug or cuddle. I've asked her why she does it, but get the same answer her school counselor gets. Basically either no answer at all or something flippant like, "It's those d**n gerbils again!" At my IC session today, we agreed that the best method of handling it should it happen again is to have her admitted to one of the hospitals, and it may take the police escorting her to do it. Heartbreaking, but we're afraid even though she's not trying to be suicidal, if she's doing it with a razor blade, she is very implusive (the ADHD) and may cut deeper than she thinks. It is very frightening.

You are spinning into the same trash heap you've been in before and blaming other people for getting you there...

Oddly enough, I think I just blew up a friendship over a similar subject--basically that I'm trying to justify what I'm doing as right but blaming WH for the mess we're in. I'll elaborate in my following post.

I'm just very confused right now. I feel like maybe it is all my fault, and I can't figure out what it is I'm doing wrong, except inadvertently trying to control others in my family and help them "see the light". And as hard as I work to try and break that habit, I seem to fail miserably every time.

LL

Latest developments:

WH called late this afternoon but could barely talk--so choked up. Apparently OW has told him she is walking away after this Sunday. (Do I believe she actually will? Not for a minute. But apparently he does right now. He said, through tears, he can't talk about it right now and to please not red-a** him for the next few days.)

He is under more stress because his dad is going in Friday for prostate cancer surgery. Not the cancer that is scaring him, but that his dad has a weak heart and it is a risk to do surgery.

He had not given notice yet at the time of our phone call but said he was planning on it yet tonight. Again, do I think he really will? Not sure. And can't call and ask. Have to wait for him to call me.

It gets better...

Before this call from him, I had a phone message from him saying "it sure is odd that you sugar-coat everything on your end but I heard you haven't changed a bit--something about a bathroom door?"

OOOhh baby, did that set me off. I called mutual friend (because that's where the info about my temper outburst on Monday and the bathroom door getting damaged came from--she was on the phone with me when it happened, and it was not supposed to get back to WH.)

She said he had a right to know that what he was walking back into was no different than what he left. BS! I told her the reason for the outburst (however wrong it was) was because he was getting close to breaking it off with OW (or so I thought) and then I found out they went to mutual friend's over the weekend. I also was angry that the letter I wrote him was not read until Monday. I vented. Told her it has been VERY difficult these last 6 months with everything on my mind to maintain control. I do have a temper--AO's are one of my main LB's.

I also said that had he not been having the A, the AO would have never happened in the first place.

I proceeded to get an earfull on how I was putting him before my DD, how I hadn't changed, how I was blaming everyone else for what I was doing, how since HE was the one who walked out, it was up to ME to make the changes to get him to come back, blah, blah.

That was it. She got to hear about how even though HE may have walked out, it was still HIM having the A which is not justified by anything, how I am stronger, am doing more around the house, have worked hard to keep my DD in school and deal with this on my own, how I am following a budget now, how I am now going to Al-Anon and how I DO think I've changed (while I also admitted I still have a lot of growing to do).

Then I got to how she has a problem with my AO, but how is that any different than being at her house a while back and her throwing a punch at her H or throwing liquer bottles across the kitchen. I told her that I feel she is in a very unhealthy marriage, too.

Finally, I hit on her "enabling" the A by allowing WH to bring OW down there. I told her I didn't mean she had to stick up for me, but it was more a matter of sticking up for what is moral and right, and that if I had a friend who was seeing someone while still married, I would not allow them to visit as a couple until the marriage was over.

By then she was really ticked! She layed into me about blaming her for the affair. I said, "No, it's WH's fault that the A happened. I'm just saying you may have helped it carry on easier."

That was it. She said something nasty--I can't remember what--and hung up.

I did email her back elaborating a little more on how I have always listened to her advice and her statements about what I need to change or what I'm doing wrong, and have tried to work on them. I felt that perhaps some of these things should have been said by me a while ago but I didn't out of fear, and that I felt I was also entitled to my opinions, and that she was entitled to react to them however she chose, i.e., by hanging up.

She wrote back saying she'd written a lengthy response but was holding off sending it--and might never send it.

Fine by me. I feel like I probably don't need her as a friend anyway. But she's sitting on some VERY delicate information that no one knows about me from almost 10 years ago (something even I don't want to discuss because it could send me to therapy--I put it to the back of my brain and forgot about it). She could, in anger, tell my WH and that would be it for us. I guarantee it.

So now I am really tormenting myself. I know in my mind that I can't control his decisions any more than I can control those of my daughter's or my parents' or anyone's but mine. My IC and I talked at length about that today.

But my heart has such a hard time letting go. Maybe because I'm so used to "mothering" everyone, it's hard not to, even when I know it just pushes people away. I hate to see people do things that are dangerous or hurtful to them, so I try and help, and it's not right for me to do that.

I don't know what to think or what to believe about WH. Even if he does give notice, how will I know he's faithful? He obviously does NOT want to break things off with OW, as evidenced by his tears. He's having a hard time making ends meet on his own, and I think is worried about DD, and those are his reasons for coming back if he does--not because he's so in love with me and tired of her.

I guess I'm just scared of losing him and being alone for the rest of my life. Where is my faith? I was actually very calm yesterday--thought I had it fairly under control. As I can see, that was not correct.

LL

I can't imagine what you are going through. Frankly if my husband didn't give me a definitive answer ASAP I'd kick his sorry a** out the door.

This is speaking from the side of a FWS and a BS.

The only reason Buster and I can make this work is because at different times in our marriage when we strayed, we were willing to give up the other person.

I hurt for you, hon.

You have way more fortitude than me. I think your plan sounds marvelous!

LL, I know how hard it is. I hope you do well and have hope.

I have hope, but then every time it seems like something is turning around, it falls on it's face again. I want so much to have hope that this Sunday will be the day WH and OW end things. I want to believe he turned in his notice to vacate his apartment today. But I don't know and won't know any of it until he tells me. And then I need to work very hard to keep my expectations low to avoid getting hurt worse.

I have only been doing this for about 6 months. Some people do it for years. I have no idea how. I can't imagine the strength it must take.

I am calmer again tonight, but I think that's because the last thing I heard from WH was that he was turning in his notice. If he ends up not doing that or not breaking things off after saying it would happen this Sunday, then I'll crash again. No doubt this weekend will be extra difficult for me. Need to think of something to do to keep myself busy. I have church on Sunday morning and Al-Anon that night, but so far, that's all I have planned. Probably be working anyway, though.

On the plus side, my DD let me take her to Taco Bell tonight (yep, only the best fine dining for us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and we had a nice chat on the way there and back, and she even did let me hug her tonight (not much of a hug back) and she let me look at her arms, though she still won't exactly discuss them. She was actually asking me "boyfriend" advice. So I still feel a bit of hope that she's not entirely lost.

And I actually feel sort of liberated by finally telling mutual friend about the things that bothered me, instead of keeping them all silent and walking on eggshells around her. I feel bad if I lost her as a friend, and I shouldn't have been so harsh, but the things I said did need to be voiced.

I need to stand up more for me, and quit taking on the responsibilities of the world. I do agree that in a way I "blame" others for where I am. I don't intentionally blame them, but I can see how I allow their problems to become my problems. This is what I will hopefully, maybe in another 20 years, be able to learn from Al-Anon--to realize that I can only control myself, and no one else.

I need to tape reminders of that everywhere...on my phone, on my computer, on my TV, on my stove..."LL, you can only control yourself. You cannot make another person's decisions for them."

Keep drilling it into my head, guys and gals!!

I'm going to bed now. I'm cutting my Xanax down but have been taking a Benedryl before bed because my sinuses are bothering me. I'm finding it to be a pretty good 'sleep' combination. Getting drowsy.

I'll update tomorrow on what I find out.

LL

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL, my thought goes with you. Have a great day.

(Warning MAJOR 2x4....I say this with great love and because these words helped me when I needed them)


HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!


Your "mothering" and AO are you rationalizing away your attitude that "I know better than you."

Yep, that's you, you know better how to run everyone elses life (heavy sarcasm). Not only do you know better...they better follow your advice or else you will get so angry you will beat it into them.

Do you get angry, yell, scream, berate, say hurtful things, and then feel remorseful for it later, ashamed? Apologize for your behavior, but next time you are angry, do it all again? The abusive cycle. You, sister, are abusive. You are beating your family into submission. But you can't, you are just pushing them farther away.

You pretend to care about your family's happiness, but only if it is the kind of happiness that you idealize for them. Someone doesn't follow your rules, then you'll let them know.

You can't change your LB's until you change this righteous attitude of yours.


(OK, 2x4 safely put away).

Watch out...those knee jerk, emotion-driven phone calls are getting you in trouble. Take things slow, write it down if you want to say it...reread it, if it is still worth saying, then say it or send it, but stop with the impulsive saying what's on your mind (although probably a good thing to do with friend). Do you have a sponser fom Al-Anon yet? Someone still M and wants to see you M? Someone you can call at midnight?

That's a great step with your daughter. Don't force her to show you her arms. Next time you see a cut, make a big deal about it...not sarcastically..."Oh no, look at that cut, would you like a bandaid? I know you are too grown for this, but can I see it (then kiss it) I know that won't make it better. Is there anything else I can do to help?" And hospitalizing is not a bad idea, be prepared for her to resent you for it though (oh well).

Do you get angry, yell, scream, berate, say hurtful things, and then feel remorseful for it later, ashamed? Apologize for your behavior, but next time you are angry, do it all again? The abusive cycle. You, sister, are abusive. You are beating your family into submission. But you can't, you are just pushing them farther away.

Yes, sadly I admit this is mostly true. It was very bad during the early years of our marriage and has gotten better over the years as I've committed myself more to God, but is not "healed" yet, as evidenced by the outburst over the A and not reading my letter on Monday.

I agree that my trying to get other people to live the way I think is best for them is my single biggest LB. Not to blame it on parents, but it is something my mother has done to my dad (and to a lesser degree, to both us girls) all my life, and she's still doing it to the poor man confused by Alzheimer's today. It sickens me to see how cruel she can be, and both my sister and I picked up some of the same traits.

Again, hoping someday Al-Anon (or something) will eventually drill into my head that I can't control others.

The problem is, right now WH is with OW (sort of--he did give notice yesterday on his apartment so he will have to make some sort of decision this month, and his choked-up word is still that it's over by Sunday). How do I win him back without LBing and trying to control him again? There are certain things I need to control--like not drinking himself into oblivion, and not seeing OW.

----------------------------------------------
Change of subjects--it has been a VERY CHALLENGING EVENING <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

My DD's "cutting" was anonimously reported to the DHS (child welfare) and I received a call today saying it needed dealt with immediately. No more visiting with the therapist and trying to figure it out--I was told to take her to one of the two hospitals with adolescent psychatric wings and have her evaluated today.

First, it's very difficult to get her there. Left work early on a very busy day and dumped everything on other people, and then went home and told her semi-truths to get her to go.

The evaluation ended up with her being admitted to inpatient therapy. So I had to leave my baby girl (okay, she's 14, but she's my baby) in tears, blaming me ruining her life by leaving her there, digging at her cuts, and threatening to be uncooperative (which I told her please don't do because not only does she risk having to stay longer, but the DHS could decide to put her in a group home or a different setting to see if she would be better off.)

I'm feeling very down. My WH is gone when I need a shoulder to lean on so badly. My baby is in lock-down. I can't call my parents to lean on them right now for obvious reasons. I called one of my pastors, who reminded me of probably exactly what is true, but he just as well cut my heart out....

I need to die to myself and live for Jesus. If that means giving up my WH, having my DD placed somewhere for a time, selling my house so that I can live within my means if WH decides not to continue support, and telling my DS that college at U of I may not be an option after all this fall, so be it.

And as he said, when I expressed my total lack of desire to live the rest of my life single, "There are several people from the church who do it and are very happy, because they pour their lives into other things. You don't need a husband to keep from being lonely. You just need people in your life." (Difficult for someone to hear who's never been without a partner since she was 15.)

This is all very difficult for me to swallow right now. I am probably the most upset because I feel like I'm digging my feet in like a little kid and saying, "No God, I don't like it this way. Please don't make me give it all up. Please can I keep it and still have you, too?"

Why can't I just let go of it all and be free? I'm reading the first part of James over and over tonight--about trials and developing perseverence. I just feel like I'm the most wimpy, weak, doubting person in the world right now.

I don't feel strong, and empowered, and sure of things. I feel afraid.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> And as he said, when I expressed my total lack of desire to live the rest of my life single, "There are several people from the church who do it and are very happy, because they pour their lives into other things. You don't need a husband to keep from being lonely. You just need people in your life." (Difficult for someone to hear who's never been without a partner since she was 15.)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dunno if you've been keeping up with my story, but the above quote could have been me speaking.

I haven't yet worked all this out, but one thing that is becoming clear to me is that while I don't need to spend the rest of my life alone, (one way or another <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) I need to learn how to. There's a reason I haven't been single since my first date (well, 3 months once) and it has very little to do with chance. I'm committed to learning how to be complete within myself though the road seems long and I do not know the way. I can sense it's importance.

This is all very difficult for me to swallow right now. I am probably the most upset because I feel like I'm digging my feet in like a little kid and saying, "No God, I don't like it this way. Please don't make me give it all up. Please can I keep it and still have you, too?"

He would probably answer, "Yes, but not yet." If this is all part of God's plan, then there's a reason for it and it would behoove us to listen for that reason and learn the lessons. That's what I'm thinking for me, and it sounds like it might apply to you too.

Why can't I just let go of it all and be free? I'm reading the first part of James over and over tonight--about trials and developing perseverence. I just feel like I'm the most wimpy, weak, doubting person in the world right now.

Maybe. Maybe that's where learning to be complete within yourself becomes important. Maybe that's why we are being given the chance right now to learn these things... so that the rest of our live have a higher potential.

I don't feel strong, and empowered, and sure of things. I feel afraid.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

That's where faith comes in, LL. Read in Mathew... uh, lesseee... ok, here it is: Mathew 6, verses 19 to 34. Read and meditate. Right now, stuff sucks, but this too shall pass and God will take care of us... if we have faith and let him.

Sorry to hear about your daughter. This may be for the best. I look back into my past and often think that if there had been some kind of radical intervention things could have turned out very different for me.

Wishing you well,

dewt