Sorry it's taken so long for me to respond. I've been pretty busy between the kids and work.

Well, I've been doing the Plan A thing for a little while and the only thing I seem to be getting is slapped around for it. I feel very taken advatage of. I'm also starting to realize how much of this was my fault. I've been blame shifting, but here is the weird part. I've been shifting all the blame on myself. She's had a large part in this too. I know I screwed up, I hurt her, our family and myself. The difference is that I know I screwed up and I want to help "fix" it. I feel that I've done the best I could(since 'waking up') and she is starting to be mean about things. That's her right. She can do whatever she wants to, she has free will. But I've also figured out that it works both ways. I'm not going to be mean or nasty to her but I'm no longer going to cater to her either. She wants a divorce, she doesn't want me for a husband only a friend(Read: Provider). That's fine, she wants to throw all the bad out(me) but she'll also have to throw some of the good out too(me).

At this point I feel like I've been dealing with things, all of it. I'm getting the feeling she hasn't dealt with any of it yet. But that's okay, she wants a divorce that means I don't have to worry about her not dealing with it. She is responsible for herself. I'm getting the divorce started Monday. I'm tired of being dragged along. I want to be more than a check and _bed_ buddy(Her words for it were more colourful, fill in the blank) to someone.

I honestly think things will be getting easier from this point on. I've been working on a budget. I based all my numbers off max support cost for the state. I don't think she will be able to get alimony<sp>. I've been buying stuff to make up an appartment(I left everything else except my computer and a lamp from a previous seperation). And I've been marking a lot of stuff off my list. I still won't have the money to move into my own place for several months but I'm working on my parents basement. Gonna make a living room and bedroom down there so I'll have a place to deal with the kids that's out of mom and dad's hair. As time goes by I'll get closer to where I want to be. I'm trying to figure out how to get enough money to buy a house lot. With the mortgage being in my name it'll go against my debt-to-income ratio so I'll not be able to buy anything outright, but if I do it peicemeal I think I can pull it off.

Anyway, to summerize<sp> I'm unhappy but getting healthier. The kids have a good father. And I'm getting my [censored] together for once. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Let me get this straight. You tell your wife a month ago that you have had an affair and now you are complaining about not getting *YOUR* needs met? And now you are planning on punishing her because she doesn't treat you as nicely as you would like?

Do you really expect her to meet ANYTHING when you have just rocked her world 4 short weeks ago with news of the GREATEST BETRAYAL a spouse can commit?

My friend, you have ALOT of damage repair to do before you can even EXPECT to get anything. She has NOTHING TO GIVE RIGHT NOW. Every ounce of her strength must go to healing HERSELF because of the DAMAGE you inflicted on her. You ain't getting any needs met for about a year, that is how deep the blow is that you inflicted on your wife.

Here is his original post in case anyone wants to follow it: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=026848;p=1#000000

<small>[ March 27, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I appreciate your feedback even if it's not something I want to hear.

Three years ago when this all started, she told me she didn't want me in the house but she wasn't going to tell/ask me to leave. I left. Within 2-3 weeks a guy came into OUR home stayed the night the first day he was in(She said this won't happen) and they spent the weekend at the place where I proposed to her. With her asking me to watch the kids while this happened so they could spend more time together. I think that also counts as a betrayal. She made it clear she didn't want me anymore and she told me she didn't love me. That I needed to get on with my life.

So, I started trying to do that. I was very stupid for how I went about it. I should have got/finished the divorce first and none of this would matter. That's in the past I can do nothing to change that.

I'm not concerned about her meeting my emotional needs. I don't except it. Just because I was able to deal with the BETRAYAL she put ME through doesn't mean she has/can/will deal with mine. That's fine. I've done all I can to help her. I told her I'm will to commit to helping her work through things. I'm willing to be accountable, either with her or whoever she wants to appoint. Completely opening my life up. MC, IC any and all. She point blank said she isn't interested in it. She has wasted 7yrs and she is getting on with her life. She isn't going to wait for me or her to heal enough to work on things she is getting on with ALL aspects of her life, which includes dating. It is to the point of her being mean. While I was on a business trip she called me and asked if she could cash a mortgage rebate check. She would have to sign my name to it and I didn't want her to do that. I had deposited $400 into her account the day before. Well, she didn't cash it right then. She ended up going to an out of state party(this was so I didn't feel she took the money for that purpose). I get back in town instead of talking to me about it, like I had suggested, she takes it and cashes it anyway. The bank screws up and places a hold on MY account which could have left me strand because I couldn't get to my money. Then she starts hitting me over the head about danggling money over her head. I've given her groceries, payed all the bills and gave her more money on top of that. I don't see where I'm dangling [censored]. It's all out in the open and I'm doing my part.

I'm not punishing her for anything. I haven't brought up her whatever you want to call them(EA/PA/"friends"). I've not fired back ANYTHING while she was beating me over the head. Whenever she has been stressed I've asked if she would like me to take the kids for awhile so she could breath. She decided to take karate and was sore the first night. I asked if she needed a massage and gave her one. The skin on her arms and legs was dry, I offer to rub lotion on them. She wanted to get some news clothes, I took her to the mall and ended up spend the rest of my income tax refund on them while she kept hers to do other things with. Basicly I'm helping her get ready for dating. It's been anything she wants I've been trying to provide.

It comes down to one thing though. She doesn't want me. She has said it over and over again. Through her actions she has said it over and over again. The only thing she wants from me is a check and a friendship. The friendship part(again in her own words) is for her to have someone's shoulder to cry on and someone to tell all the good things that happening to her to. No where in that is me. That's not a friendship. That's having a friend not being one. That's fine also. But how the hell do you supposed to give everything you can just to get slapped in the face when the other person feels like it? She could have cheated on me with 100 different people and it would hurt less that her not wanting me any more. This is before AND after my screw ups.

I have to deal with my stupid. She hasn't had to deal with all of her's because I've been holding it back/trying to take care of it myself. Again trying to provide for her, yes I know, bass ackwards. I'm not going to give her any [censored] over ANYTHING. ANY. But she is going to have to take care of HER responsablities. No where in that is ME.

To me this seems reasonable. If you want a divorce and don't want that person then you have to be willing to be away from them and take care of your own responsabilites. That works both ways.

Please tell me where I'm wrong. I'm angry(I think I'm in control of it) and hurt(Again, I think I'm dealing with it well) but maybe I'm being blinded by it.

Well...

You've got a load of dynamics going on here. Here's my take.

You may well be facing a revenge affair. And she may well now be in "love" with her soulmate. And she may feel that this is a great opportunity to punish you for all the wrongs you committed "against" her in the past.

You said you were in Plan A. But your writing does not reflect an attitude of Plan A. It reflects a really angry person, whose attitude probably is easily perceptable to your WW.

Your theme is, man this is to hard, screw it, I'm moving on.

And if you are 100% convince that's what is best for you, then I say, go for it. But if there is any part of you whispering, man, it would really suck if she'll no longer be a part of my life, then I would say, you better give it your very best shot right here, right now!

Plan A is not easy. Plan A means totally devoting yourself to meeting as many of your WW's EN's as possible. Plan A means putting your needs on the shelf and expecting no EN fulfillment until it is clear the A is over, and NC has begun, and has continued for a reasonable amount of time.

And if Plan A doesn't work, in say 2-3 months, or whatever time you feel is best for you, then there is Plan B, a chance to let WW get ALL of her EN's met elsewhere, but for you to save your love for her.

I sense way too much anger in your posts to believe that your Plan A is effective. I'd be willing to bet that your conversations are full of inuendo, laced with LB's of all kinds, especially the tone of your voice. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

You need to remember that the only way your WW is going to respond to you, is for you to provide her with a 100% safe environment for her to begin communication with you. I sense that you all but bust her across the head with a 2x4 EVERY time you talk.

I felt the same way for a while, wanting to extract several "pounds of flesh" from my WW every time we talked. I soon learned that I was driving her further away, and my chances of accomplishing ANYTHING with her were fading fast.

So, I reread Plan A, read posts here in the forum, found enough forgiveness in my heart, to REALLY do Plan A. I was a lighthouse for her. I met every need I could, and offered NO LB's. NONE! I made it a game. Whatever she said to provoke me from her FOGGY STATE, I fended off with love, understanding and kindness. At first it pissed her off, then it confused her immensely (why would you be so nice to me?), and then, after time.... a couple of months, she began to open up and talk with me about how she felt. That was the breakthrough.

If I've read you wrong, I apologize. If I'm reading you close to right, you may lose the chance to repair the marriage with one who was once the girl of your dreams.

Good luck with your choice...
SD

Well, I think maybe you misread it a little. I'm the/a WS, I feel she betrayed me also so a little of the BS too.

No, I don't want to hit her over the head with anything. I've not talked to her about what she has/hasn't done in the past. It's in the past and over with. Nothing can be done about it. No reason for me to be mean to her about it. Does it matter, yeah. But only in the context of descibing where I was at emotionally in the past. Don't get me wrong, it neither takes away or adds ANYTHING to what *I* did wrong. Just a context.

I really don't think I've been mean to her, I've been very careful with my tone. If I've had nothing good to say I shut up. If I'm aggrovated I shift into 'survival' mode and kinda talk funny(tone-wise) without a whole lot of feeling in my words. That's so I don't come across as being angry or hateful sounding. Or that I just don't have a lot of feeling there anymore.

I'm not trying to punish her with a divorce. I'm not trying to punish her with money or the kids or by being mean to her. It profits absolutlely no one. I don't want her to hurt or feel bad. But she want's a divorce so she "can get on with my life". That's fine. I asked about the DV and she said she would have already done it a month ago if she could have. I'm not going to drag my feet with it anymore. I've left her everything that's in our home but my computer and lamp. She wants to continue living there. All I ask is that she pay the mortgage. I'm taking all the installment credit notes with me. I'll pay em. I'll be giving her 32% of my check, the default amount/max by law. She can have her freedom, that's what happens after DV. I've already told her she can do whatever she wants as far as partying or dating. I'm not going to give her any grief unless she is delebrately screwing with me(Hence the check). I've even left that go. There will be a very limited number of checks coming to her place with both our names on em. I'm pretty sure no more.

Like I've said, I'm not giving her grief over anything. I just don't think she realizes what DV means completely. I think she is looking at it from only one angle. To her I feel she thinks I'm the only one that screwed up(or that matters) and she has absolved all her wrong doings through it(tho her's were trival anyway, to her). She has said something along those lines. But back to my main point, I don't think she realizes that after DV I'm not responsible to/for her any longer. She knows she isn't to/for me.

Our only responsablities will be to ourselves and our children. That's what DV is. Seperating two people. I hate it, I hate that it didn't work out. I hate there is so much pain and hurt and I hate that I'm the cause of parts of it. The A's weren't the start. Just the largest catalyst. I also hate that I won't be able to take care of her anymore(In the ways I WAS able to while we were together. Yes, I did provide for her and try to meet EN's). But without her wanting to try and work things out there isn't much left to do.

And make no mistake I'm not skirting my responsability there either. I've driven her to that point through my actions. If for no other reason than I've given her a weapon she can use to get out of the M without having to feel bad about it. I don't know if that's the reason or not, when you get down to it it doesn't matter anyway. In the end it isn't even about who wants the DV. The DV is the END of it. I'm not going to try and wait or fabricate things to paint her as a bad guy or a "B" to jusify the DV.

Do I care we are getting DV, h3ll yes I care. But I don't see any other solutions that will work for the both of us. She wants the DV solution, it's a unilateral desision. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

-----
I've offered her a pound of flesh freely given, she only wants what she can take off my hide herself.

Spelling > Me

becomingaman...do you mind if I ask how long you and W have been married?

Seven years.

your situation sounds so much like that of a woman that I work with. She and H had been married for 7 years as well when H had an A. H wanted to work on the marriage and this woman said, nope, you did me wrong and that's that. I think that she truly wanted out of the M and was able to save face by looking like the victim to all of her friends and family. She actually confided in me several years after their D that she wished that she had tried to make the M work.

I think that at the time she thought that she was unhappy with him but would have never have ended the M for no reason...this was her way out. She has been divorced now for 16 years and hasn't remarried. I don't think that the single life panned out the way that she had hoped it would.

What I'm hearing from you is that you have tried to do all that you know to make this M work. Yes, you have both made mistakes, haven't we all!! Maybe she needs time away from you to realize what she has. Sometimes we get our eyes fixated on the grass that lies on the other side of the fence. As someone once said, the grass may be greener, but the water bill costs more too!

My thoughts and prayers are with you CV.

Well, I hope she doesn't become the woman you work with. Even if we don't get back together. I can't stand to see people become bitter.

I don't *think* that'll happen though.

She has waffled with ever getting back together. When I first talked to her about it she said absolutly not(A VERY normal reaction). About two weeks later she said she was never getting married again. The next thing she said was it'd be a very long time before we got married again. As in the next sentence. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I had cooked way too big of a supper for my mom, dad and the kids(refining domestic skills), so I invited her over. She was talking to her mom on the phone and obviously talking about me and her and I told her to come on over when she got done because I didn't need to be hearing the convo. She told me to stay and started talking louder. I'm pretty sure her mom asked about the DV and she said she was pretty sure about it. She keeps telling me that she has to have a DV to start over. We'll have to date, move some place else and re-marry. But that she isn't going to put ANY part of her life on hold to see if I "get it together".

Even though we are proceeding with the DV I'm still trying. For some reason(Probably destructive) I can't stop trying. Tonight I went over to see if she wanted to go play pool. She said she hadn't expected me to(we had talked about it Monday or Tuesday night). I told her I was going to go and she should come and we'd have some fun. I even jumped through hoops to make sure I had my cell with me(Long story involving swapping vehicles to move funiture). When I got it I called to tell her I might have missed her(Not likely it'd only been like 20-30min) and to see if she was coming. She said she was depressed and going to stay in. She even blew off her sis to stay home(after talking to me about being excited to see her). I ended up going to Walmart to get stuff to refinish some funiture that was donated to me. I didn't really want to go play pool without her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But on a side note. I decided to get her a card and a pair of boxer shorts.... That was one of the first things I ever got her. She had moved back to her original city and didn't have many clothes and was complaining about underwear. So, I got her some boxer and brought her a card. I dunno.....

Anyway, we are talking back and forth on messanger.. Thanks for the support guys. And the 2x4 when needed...

Okay, she is either cooking or blowing me off.

One other things I forgot to mention, I think. Is that I said something about finding my own place and for us to work at getting ourselves together. Mostly, to me, this is proving that I can make a household work all by myself and that I can pick up after myself and the kids when they are over. Duh, that's easy.....

But she said if we done that what would be the point in not getting DV. I think she sees it as if she can't make it on her own then I'm there to catch her. Something that she also complained that I'm NOT there for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It's also one of the hard parts for me of getting back together(in the past, and to be honest if we were to work on things this time it would be an issue now too). I don't want to be married because I have to, but because we love each other.

She said she liked the boxers but no mention of the card. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Maybe it was a bad choice. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

becomingaman...I think that the boxers and card were a very tender gesture on your part. I think that your W is for whatever reason in a fog of her own. Do you think that it's possible that she may be seeing someone now?

She says she is getting on with ALL parts of her life. She wants to date, but has no one in mind. I don't know what to believe. She stopped by work today and cashed another check. After we got outside she started crying. I asked her why and she wouldn't tell me for awhile. Eventually she said she is just having a hard day(She called me complaining about trying to find a job earlier and how I didn't know what it was like). So, I told her she'd find a job eventually and it'd be okay. She was like no, that's not the problem. She said the problem was her having a hard time seeing me(awhile back she made the comment that when she sees me too much it makes her fuse short with the kids). So, I told her she didn't have to see me. I could work something out with the kids. She never said anything about that. I then told her she knew how I felt and that I wanted her. She said that's the problem, she wants me too but can't live with me anymore. I reminded her I didn't expect to immediately move back in or anything. All I'd have to have is a plan and a commitment to work on our marriage. And I would be willing to try and do what she needs.

The weather was nice out today so I asked if I could have the kids this afternoon after work. We ended up cooking out. I was planning on making her up a plate and taking it over but she left. I caught her before she went and she was all dressed up. I asked if she wanted something to eat and was like "That's okay, me an D had something already while we were out. (looks at food)But I might have a little when I get back". Then she just left. I mean I didn't expect anything else, but I've felt heartbroken and angry so far tonight and probably will after she gets back.

I'm trying and I feel like such a loser for it. I mean if this is just "a way out" for her I'm being really foolish for wanting to work on things. I asked her what she wanted me to do and she told me to be a jerk. That it would make it easier that way. I told her unless she provoked me I wouldn't do that. And I think it would take a lot of provoking to get me to that point. I dunno, it just seems so pointless tonight. I just want to hide under a rock.

Another bad night, anyone have any advice?

I'm afraid I'm not seeing everything and being stupid...