My H and I have been married for 25 years. There were good times but much of our marriage has been very painful for me. Last year he left me for another woman, I thought I would die it hurt so much. While that was going on I found out some other things about him that were very painful too, including that he had had an affair with a different woman that I had suspected previously. All total in the 25 years he has had 9 affairs that I know about. Most of them in the early years. I admit that after the most recent one prior to his leaving I wasn't meeting his emotional needs, I was too hurt. I do believe that I was meeting his needs when he began having affairs, but eventually my own pain became too much to consider his feelings as much as I did before he started cheating.

After leaving me last year he lived with the other woman for about a month. She ended the relationship and kicked him out. When he started talking to me about reconciling I wasn't sure even though I missed him very much and still loved him. Eventually we did get back together after a 10 month seperation. His Xgirlfriend (the woman he left for) told me that he is "settling" for me and I think that's probably true though she only said it to hurt me.

Here is my problem. About 2 weeks before he told me he wanted a divorce (I knew nothing of the affair at that time) he gave me a card telling me how happy he was that we were together and that though we had had problems in the past "the major ones will never happen again, it's just you and me forever!" He said that knowing that he might leave me and knowing that he was involved with another woman. Now when he tells me he loves me (he tells me often) I don't believe him. When he tells me that he would never hurt me again, I don't believe him. It feels like everything he says is fake.

I've read the advise on this site about making deposits in the love bank. He is doing that but he is still very dishonest. What good are the love bank deposits if it feels like he is only faking it all? I am also making those deposits but it is hard to always act like I'm happy when in truth I am deeply hurt and I'm very sad all the time.

When we discussed reconciling he assured me that this experience changed him. He made promises of honesty that he hasn't kept. He will only do what makes him happy but will not do anything to try and help me understand this or help me heal from it (if that's even possible) anything that makes him uncomfortable or stressed he will not do. Because the other woman said that he was settling for me and he tells me that he doesn't care about her and never really did and that I am who he wants to be with, I asked him to tell her what he has told me but he wouldn't. She really blasted me with insults and hateful remarks, I asked him to defend me and all he did was tell her "you are wrong about **** she is not like that"

I missed him so much when we were apart but now I'm not sure that getting back together wasn't a mistake. I can't believe him anymore. I guess I had a fantasy that this really did change him. He was and is very good at making his case. But he is still dishonest. I have asked him point blank about certain things relating to his relationship with her and he lied every time. I have discovered the truth several times on my own, but the truth never comes from him so I know now that everything he was saying to me to get us back together he didn't mean..he promised me that he would make a serious effort to be honest with me at all times and he hasn't lived up to that not at all.

I have just started to think that we are just prolonging the inevitable..that we won't be together forever as I had hoped. I just don't think that I can continue feeling this way for the rest of my life. Even if I could it's probably just a matter of time before he does it again.

I forgot to mention that we are seeing a marriage counselor for the first time. That's the only time we ever disciss our serious problems really. One hour, in her office. Last time we went I asked if we could continue what we had been talking about at the counselors office after we got home, but as is usually the case, he got defensive and didn't want to talk about it.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Luckily you have found this place in time. Many marriages can be rebuilt to be better than they were before.

Your H is like most of them - they continue to lie about the affair. They believe that it is better for you to just get over it. Also they think that telling the truth will only hurt you more. Of course not telling the truth and talking things out makes it even worse.

Most of these WS's are living in a fantasy world. Sounds like yours had his fantasy blow up in his face. That is very good.

Read on the home page here the "quick clicks" about how an affair should end, restoring the marriage and reconciliation.

Also stick with us and keep posting. It really helps. I promise you that after you have been here awhile, you will feel better, and know exactly what to do.

Thank you for the welcome. I think he preferred his fantasy world. I can't stop thinking that the only reason he is with me is that he can't have her.

Before he left for her I begged and cried and pleaded with him to stay, he was very cold, no emotion at all. I told him that what was really pathetic is that I would probably take him back even after all that he has done and that was obviously the truth.

I still love him very much, but now I don't know who he is. I look at him and think "I don't even know this man, how can I love someone I don't know?" It's just that before I had total faith in his love even though he cheated. I always believed that he loved me, now I am having a very hard time believing that. I don't want to go through that again and I don't see any reason to believe it won't happen again..I have no sense of security with him anymore. It's really hard living day to day not knowing if he is going to drop another bomb on me! I literally wanted to die and even considered suicide though I am very against that. Thankfully guilt over my kids kept me from carrying that out. Still I am so sick of my life that I am doing things I know are harming me and I don't care enough to stop. I need to find a way to realize that life is precious again so that I will care enough to take care of my health and stop hurting myself.

This is all so hard. I've read many postings here and I am impressed with the optimism I see. I'm hoping I can start feeling that way too.

<small>[ March 28, 2004, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

Be sure to read Awed's post here. It is great. It lets you know what goes on inside the mind of a foggy WH. Read all of the posts from "H". He really spells out what he was thinking.

Hello I am a newbie also a WS 2 days out of my first and hopefully only A. I found out through this board that all us WS who did not get a divorce right away because of some huge insurmountable problem like say violent behaviour, true psychosis, end stage drug addiction, criminal behavior, molestation these type of things. We are all the same, we have a decent hearted wonderful woman who will always love us, what a great security blanket that is. You have put up with 9 affairs that is amazing. There you are still trying, if you were my wife I would hug you right now. He knows he is lucky but he is also taking full advantage of your tolerance and unconditional love. HE LOVES TO HAVE THE CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. You are enabling this that is why he keeps doing it and has not left you. You are too passive you need to get on the offensive, I am new and no expert so take my advise with a grain of salt. My single biggest reason for coming out of the fog was realizing that my wife is an attractive beautiful person who could and would replace me if forced too. Drive home that point that another man would be happy to step into his shoes and laugh his [censored] off at what a fool your WS is. You have power, he could have left a long time ago he has not. Pinpoint why and ATTACK instead of react. Lets see how he handles the pressure you have endured. Most WS I bet will eventually crumble. Get that harley guy to figure it out so you can fix the problem he will be happier and stop searching for an escape from whatever is causing his pain. Hope this helps.

toomanylies, I think Dr. Dad made several good points, the pertinent one being that your H has no REASON to change. He is relieved right now that he didn't lose his home so is playing the game. But you can feel it is not true, it is not right. Because he is not committed to you, not committed to your marriage. He is committed to having a weigh station until his next affair.

There are 2 kinds of cheaters that we see here. The most prevalent are the 1 time cheaters. Cheating to them is an aberration of character usually done in response to unmet needs at home. They don't have to change their personalities or character in order to recover. The intense guilt they feel in the affair is often motivation enough to prevent it from happening again as long as the marriage is recovered.

The 2nd kind is the serial cheater. Cheating to them is not an aberration of character, but a way of life. They feel they are entitled to cheat and see nothing wrong with it. If they have to play act a little guilt or remorse to keep the BS strung along, they will do that too. UNTIL her anger blows over and the next affair comes along.

Marriage Builder is designed to help the FORMER, not the latter. MB principles are designed to correct the marital problems that made the affair possible. They are not designed to change one's CHARACTER. See the difference?

I do believe that people can change, however, I see no indication here that he has changed. He has no motivation to change.

If I were you, I would take a realistic look at my marriage. You are married to a man who is COMMITTED to a pattern of deceit. He has no intention and no motivation to change. You can see this with your own eyes. You can't possibly change this man.

So, what are you left with? A big decision. Can you accept that you CANNOT change him after 25 years of trying? Acceptance of that truth should help you make a decision. If you can live with more of the same for the next 25 years, then you have your man. If not, it is time for you to explore your options.

I hope that you all have patience with me. My postings seem to be very long but my story is long.

I feel like I should explain better so that you know that I have not been innocent in my marriage either. We married very young..too young neither of us was ready for it. I tried very hard at first to make him happy, I wanted him to be happy with me. We had a baby soon after we were married and that's when he started staying out late, hanging out with the guys he worked with drinking and using drugs. Within a year I found out that he had been seeing a stripper. At that time he was going out almost every night and sometimes not coming home at all til the next day. I was lonely and like all women I wanted to feel wanted. That's when I had my first affair. Unfortunately I got pregnant and was fairly sure the baby belonged to the other man. I ended the affair immediately because I didn't want the other man to find out that I was pregnant. I knew I had to tell my H and I was so stressed out all the time that I lost the baby. I know that stress had something to do with the miscarriage. I told my H anyway and he reacted terribly. I think that what he did that night might be the only thing he really feels guilty over. in the next few years he had many more affairs. I just finally decided that if he was single I was too! I had another affair but I didn't try to hide it. I wasn't going to go through having to lie and deceive and hide when I didn't see any need to. I even allowed the other man to drive me home and kiss me goodnight in my driveway while my H stood at the door visibly upset. All of this took place in the first 5 years! There were 15 faithful years between us before he did it again. I truly thought that the childish behavior of the past was behind us so learning that I was wrong was a big blow.

to recap: his first 7 affairs all took place in the first 5 or 6 years of our marriage. He was faithful for over 15 years after that as far as I know (I'm pretty sure he was because I am well aware of the signs) then he had another affair..this one hurt more than all the previous ones combined because I loved him so much more after so many years than I did in the beggining, also because I was so sure it was behind us. I was crushed. I took off my wedding rings and emotionally checked out of my marriage TRYING to distance myself to prepare for it to be over, I asked him for a divorce and we lived seperately for 5 months. I decided to try again but explained to him that unless he started opening up to me and telling me the truth there was no chance for us to be happy. He lied about the whole thing, everything he said about his affair was a lie. Again, after trying many times to talk about the important issues in our lives and getting no where, I gave up..I never said "I love you" never really said much to him at all. I lost interest in a physical relationship too, we still had sex, but not often. I was numb and tired. I tried to be close again towards the end, before he left and before I had any idea he was going to but his mind was made up.

I can't get him to understand that it's so important to me that he not hide things from me. I am living with a stranger that I've known for 25 years. Nothing I say or do is ever going to change him, I know that now. It took his leaving and then trying to make me believe that this had changed him only to find out that he's still the same to finally realize that it's never going to change. I'm going to be hurt for the rest of my life unless I leave. He still thinks that lying is better than telling the truth, if he could only see how wrong he is!

I should also add that before he left he tried to convince me that he wasn't seeing anyone. He said he just needed time away to think (that was a lie) he asked if he and I could still see each other after he left. basically his plan initially was to live with her and lie to me about it, and to continue having sex with me and lie to her about that. So YES he is a serial cheater! He even planned on cheating on her before he ever moved in with her.

someone said "he is relieved that he didn't lose his home" we don't own a home, he was recently transfered with his job and will be again next year so we don't own a home. Also he didn't get any of his things back either, I gave it ALL away. I told him before I came back that I wanted to be sure that it wasn't his "stuff" that he wanted and he said he didn't care about any of it, that I could get rid of it all if I wanted, so I did.

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by toomanylies:
<strong>
also someone else said "he is relieved that he didn't lose his home" we don't own a home, he was recently transfered with his job and will be again next year so we don't own a home. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tml, my point is the same whether you lease the home or own it. The mode of ownership wasn't the point. He didn't want to lose his place with you. Otherwise he wouldn't be lying.

My suggestion would be to read everything you can on this website, especially information about Plan B. A great book would be Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley.

I think you have accepted that you can't change him, so you might want to take a look at Plan B. Plan B can sometimes give them motivation to change - it is no guarantee - but it also helps you detach from him, which is a great help in case it does move to divorce.

thanks for your reply ML, funny thing about "planB" I did do that and had never been to this site <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I left and had no contact with him for about 3 months. He sent me an email telling me to listen to the song "changes" by Ozzy Osbourne.

toomanylilies...I welcome you as well to MB. Read the posts here. You will find situations very similar to yours and follow those threads for advice that has proven to work. I am a FWS and would like to comment on your H in this situation. The only man that I had ever been with before the A was my H. I was totally naive before the A about where you draw the line in friendships with the opposite sex. Let's just say that I'm not naive anymore.

After I starting see the OM, I casually asked him one day how many A's had he had. I was number 4!! His W knows nothing about me or the other ones. He claims that she is his "soulmate"! I told him that I thought I was messed up, but if I had truly thought at the time that my H was my soulmate, I certainly wouldn't have been having an A, must less 3 previous ones. I think this is definetely the "have your cake and eat it too" thing.

Your H needs to know that you aren't going to tolerate this from him anymore, you deserve better!!!!!!!!!! My H deserved better and so did
the OM's wife who still is clueless about her H!

thanks Lisa.. my H also calls me his "soulmate" he told the previous OW that I was his soulmate. I don't know you do I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am so lost! I haven't a clue why he does these things <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I'm not getting very many responses here, that's probably because no one else knows what to say or really has any idea about what is in his mind. I was hoping to hear from people who wouldn't just tell me to kick him to the curb and be done with it. That may be what has to happen, but I can't just do that without preparing emotionally for it.

Maybe I wanted everyone to tell me that there was some magic formula for changing him, and that everything would be ok between us. I guess you all don't want to lie to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

bump

trying again. bump

someone told me that to get responses I have to be a squeeky wheel..so here I am squeeking away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>