Ok. I couldn't take it anymore. I just HAD to know where his head was. I called SH to get his opinion, but he never called back. So I cornered WS.

This is how it went (basically):

Me - "have you noticed any changes in me or the house lately?"
WH - "you're doing the same things you were before I left"
Me - "ok. Does that tell you anything?"
WH - "like what?"
Me - "like I'm sticking to a plan, like I'm ready to take the next step with you... I guess I just want to know where your head is"
WH - "same place it's been - I love her, and you don't seem to want to accept it"
Me - thinking about it for a moment "I guess I'm just trying to understand how the man I knew who wouldn't watch movies that had adultery in them is now involved in an immoral relationship based on lies, deceit, and betrayal - with a woman with her history"
WH - "here we go again"
Me - "I'm just trying to understand why you're choosing this hurtful relationship over your family"
WH - "I tried to come back"
Me - "but you never had NC"
WH - "it was hard"
Me - "I know it was hard, and I was willing to help you. But while you had C with her, you couldn't be working on US"
WH - no response
Me - "do you know how hard this has been for me?"
WH - "yes, but I can't help you get through it. There's things I don't tell you b/c I think you can't handle it"
Me - "like what?"
WH - "ok. OWH is pressuring OW for D. OWH now has a girlfriend that he's moved into their house. So OW has that pressure. So now she's pressuring me to get D...but I'm not ready to do that - and you KNOW how I don't like to be pressured into anything. And if D goes through, she'll have her kids at least 3 nights a week, so I'm thinking of moving to my own place. Plus, I have to worry about making enough money for all of this"
Me - "I handled that just fine"
WH - "I just don't think you've ACCEPTED this"
Me - "Have I accepted that my H is living with another woman? Yes. Have I accepted that he's in love with her? Yes. What more am I supposed to do to accept it? Date?"
WH - "I don't care. You can wait, you can date, I honestly don't care."
Me - "have you thought about another man raising your children?"
WH - "yes"
Me - "and...?"
WH - "I don't like it"
Me - "It's not what I want, either"

Then we ended the discussion. He was kind of angry with me for bringing it up because we JUST got home from spring break with the kids (he worked and did not go), and I was making him feel guilty before he even got to see them. "Like I don't feel guilty enough" he said. When the kids got up, he told them how he'd missed them both. I jokingly said, "Awww, c'mon, you missed all three of us" and he said, "actually, I did kind of miss you"

SOMEBODY PLEASE ANALYZE ALL OF THIS FOR ME!!

<small>[ March 28, 2004, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Wanting Him Back ]</small>

When your spouse is trying to decide between you and the other person, it's time for Plan B.

I know. I have several fears with Plan B.

1. It's giving him an ultimatum of sorts, and he DOES NOT like ultimatums. I'm afraid it will send him in the other direction entirely - especially if OW is pushing him to D now anyway.

2. I'm afraid he will take our children to 'their' apartment. OW already brings her kids around, so she doesn't have a problem with it.

3. I'm not ready for D. I still have feelings of love for him, and want to be around him.

How do you guys feel about 180's in this situation? And what are some good ones? I've been thinking of getting a PT job on Sundays (his usual day off), just to get my mind off the affair. Being a SAHM, the affair is on my mind 24/7.

I like the part time job idea. It seems that he has you right where he wants you. At home alone with no outside contacts that he has to concern himself with - he has no fear of losing you to someone else. Get the job - enact plan B.

Otherwise you lose him anyway -

Who knows, just don't LB - Maybe the OW pushing the D will LB him enough - sounds like she's giving him ultimatums!

Remain sweet and civil, just don't be his doormat.

(If this were MY husband I would sweetly point out that it sounds like SHE is making decisions for him and "I always thought you liked to make your own decisions...")


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Oh goodness yes, get a job! That's always a good idea in a situation like that. It allows you much more freedom.

Plan B is not divorce.

An ultimatum? Not really. It simply says that you will protect yourself while he's insan -- err, I mean, still in the affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you're afraid of the things he'll do with your kids, just simply don't allow those things to happen. He takes the kids in contact with her? Simple. No more visits until a court orders you to do it. (And in the process, I suspect you'll rock the affair boat good and hard.)

Look, hon, your marriage is already dead and gone. If you want to believe something else, go ahead, but it's not going to do you much good. It's time to take a real hard look at your life and decide what you want it to be now. I'd suggest Plan B (which is NOT DIVORCE) in order to get your head back on straight. After that's in order, you can start figuring out what else you're going to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Look, hon, your marriage is already dead and gone. If you want to believe something else, go ahead, but it's not going to do you much good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, Just J, thanks for the 2x4. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I, too, like the job idea. It'll definitely give me some freedom, and certainly something else to think about.

WHB, unfortunately I dont know much about your situation because I was so caught up in my own for the past 3 weeks. But to me, it really sounds like he is still stuck way deep in the FOG! I can only tell you what I said to my H that made him open his eyes and open the WIDE! Also, other people were telling him the SAME exact thing...And it worked, My husband is home now, working out on his cars, just like he used to. We are a family again...mind you, we still have a LONG way to go, but we are taking it one day ata time...This is what opened my H eyes.!

I wrote a letter to WH about a week ago and gave it to him. this is just one excerpt from that letter that he read over and over again that really opened his eyes up!

Do you actually want another man to raise your boys for you? Do you really want another man to live in this house instead of you? Do you want another man to sleep in the same bed that you and I once shared? Do you want another man to fulfill the dreams of YOUR children for you? To take them to their baseball games and to practice with them? To take them on family vacations? To love them? To spend Christmas’s and birthday’s with them? That is what will happen if you choose to give us up. Another man will eventually step in and fill the shoes that you should be wearing. Eventually it will happen. Yes, you will always be their father, but I will find new love and that new man will be the one that will give me the love that I begged YOU to give me. He will be the one full-filling my emotional needs instead of you. He will be the one to wake up with the boys and put them to bed at night. He will be the one to play chess with DS8 and to do the science experiments. He will be filling YOUR shoes. Is that what you want?


If you would like to read the entire letter here is the link to the thread! Mom's letter

Sometimes we have to play hardball for them to wake up. When my H noticed little things I was doing without him, he paniced...Little things such as taking out the trash..."you never did that before"...well there are a lot of things I never did before dear, but I HAVE to now. He didnt' like my independence. He wanted me to just sit here all alone raising his kids, while he was out romping areound. Go out on a date! Just with a friend. Open up your WH eyes. It might just work. I know it worked for me and forevertogether. Just the thought made them puke!

Hi Mom -

Good to hear from you again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am so happy with you and your progress. I have printed your H's thread for my WH in the hopes that he sees that his feelings of withdrawal are shared by many - that he's not alone. (Of course, he's not in withdrawal anymore - he's back with OW - but he said it was too hard to be without her)

As for your letter, I did touch on that a bit today when talking with my WH. He definitely does not like the idea of another man raising his children, but I think he's so deep in the fog that it doesn't really impact him. And I think deep down, he knows I wouldn't go out on a 'date'. He knows I want this relationship to work.

I'm thinking of trying some of the 180 tactics I've read about at divorcebusting.com. I'll keep you posted....

Keep up the good work!

Want Him Back, why do I get the feeling that wasn't an entirely sound "thanks"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm sorry hon, I know this hurts and I wish I didn't have to say it. The marriage that you had and wanted is gone. Your husband is living with another woman. It doesn't get much more gone than that.

Is there a chance to build a new marriage? Yes. But not while you're sitting in the smoldering ruins of the old one, and not while he's off, uhm, messing around with someone else.

You can't change where HE is. But you can surely change where YOU are.

WHB, I have to agree with Just J here. Your old marriage is gone, dead and buried. Forever shattered. BUT, yes you can have a new marriage. If you read my letter to my H I mentioned that to him in the letter. I dont want my OLD marriage back, that is what got us HERE in the first place. I want a NEW marraige.

What helped me was that I completely had to withdraw myself from his situation. I told myself he was an alien and that this alien abducted my REAL H and he was buried deep down trying to get out. May sound silly, but oh so true. So true! Your H is buried right now. I had to accept it, not what I wanted to do, but I did it. I eventually showed him signs of independence and that killed him. "MY WIFE is now taking out the trash...that cant be". Hang in there honey, and keep on posting here!

I think your conversation went ok, no LB, etc. and you are entitled to ask for clarification from time to time...nor did you drag out the conversation, have an emotional scene etc, ect.

Plan B is only for when you no longer have feelings for him, or want the marriage any more, does not sound like you are there yet....so maybe a bit more plan A, and being civil, involved etc, is ok.

I agree with the job idea, and a bit of the 180 stuff....but do not use this as a strategy to manipulate him, people hate that, and Ms. Davis is full of baloney....only get the job if you want to, and being a bit closemouthed about your activities away from home is fairplay I think.

As for your H and his responses, I think he revealed some things. It sounds to me like he is having second thoughts, but does not want to make committments because of other issues with your marital history. IMO continue as you are, he knows now you can recieve "information" safely, and just see what happens. Good luck

Hi everyone, and thanks for the responses. I agree that my old marriage is dead. When I first read that, it brought tears to my eyes. It is true, however. And you are right, I DO NOT want my old marriage back - and I have told WH that very thing. I've also told him that we have new and exciting tools to make our marriage better than before, and that I wanted to make him fall in love with me all over again. Even more so than before.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Plan B is only for when you no longer have feelings for him, or want the marriage any more, does not sound like you are there yet....so maybe a bit more plan A, and being civil, involved etc, is ok. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this evaluation, sufdb. I have been in counseling with SH since January, and we have discussed many times my reluctance to go dark. He understands my reasons and agrees that I should continue Plan A to the best of my ability. I think I am doing an okay job. Last week, I was so frought with worry and anxiety - but just talking to him this morning put some of my anxieties to rest. Not that he revealed much of anything today, but it was nice to 'clear the air' so to speak.

What do you make of him getting his own apartment? Is it good because he's breaking away from OW? Or is it yet another sign that he's done?

Plan B is for when you are no longer able to control your LBs, NOT for when you no longer have feelings for him or don't want the marriage anymore.

If at all possible, you should go into Plan B BEFORE you lose your feelings for him, and WHILE you're still able to control your LBs.

i'm not sure what even to say or if what i do say will be of any help to anyone but wanted to reply and relate my situation.

we don't have any kids so i'm having a hard time relating to a lot of the posts here. plus i already had independence, i almost always made decisions without my H. I didn't allow him to really support me or at least take in consideration that he was a person who had an opinion. so showing that i have independence i think is a moote point.

no offense to momto3boys because i am genuinely happy for her and her family and even jealous but at the same time i think that sometimes it's easy to say things now being that her WH has decided to work on the M.

i can't help but try to dissect what my H says and i'm surprised that if you have been in counseling w/SH since january that you have asked some of these questions on this posts. but then again i know it is extremely expensive and don't know how often you have actually talked to SH. I'm not saying that this forum is not an incredible resource because it is and don't know where i would be without it.

i don't know what the real purpose of my reply is but these are things that i was thinking when i read it. hope things are going "well" for you and your H. prayers to you.

Everyone - EVERYONE -has fears about going to Plan B. For most it feels like they will lose 'control' of the situation since they won't have any input into the WS's life. But at this point there isn't any control anyway! Plan B lets you get control of YOUR life back, and the WS gets to feel the affects of steering their own life for a while.

It's time to protect YOU. He's feeling pressure from her end and he's not sure he wants a divorce. GREAT! PERFECT time to go to Plan B. Now he'll get to see what life without you will be like - and he WILL NOT like it. ESPECIALLY with all the pressures he's getting right now. The WS and the OW will lean on each other and depend on each other to fill ALL their needs - and GUESS WHAT?!?! Two needy sponges don't make a good match when there's no one else to fill them up!

The very thing that most BS's fear by going to Plan B - losing their marriage and being hurt further - is exactly what happens, slowly and painfully, because they won't back away for a while and make a stand for themselves!

I was a WS. I am a HUGE 'fan' of Plan B. Space from my H was the ONLY thing that allowed me to start missing him and seeing what he truly added to my life. While he was around I looked for every tiny flaw and told myself that any changes weren't permanent and were too little too late. But when he wasn't there - I found myself curious and missing him.

Plan B DOES WORK.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Wanting Him Back:
<strong>SOMEBODY PLEASE ANALYZE ALL OF THIS FOR ME!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's the only analysis you need - but it's not what you expected - an analysis of YOU rather than your WS:

You have fallen into the two most common BS traps:

1) Trying to be rational with an irrational person.

2) Poor justification to avoid Plan B.

I disagree with the others who have already buried your marriage. That said, if you treat your H AS IF it was buried, i.e., going to Plan B and getting that job, etc., he may better start to absorb the consequences of his decisions.

If you haven't already done so, get a lawyer and obtain a legal separation agreement. Bleed H dry - just by being fair. I and others were successful in specifying that minor children cannot be in the custody of a separated spouse with an overnight guest of the opposite sex.

hope4future, are you calling plan B successful because you and your H are now in recovery? i'm just guessing here but maybe some people think (including myself) that a "successful" plan B means that their WS wants to work on the M (that is, they think that before actually implementing a plan B). maybe i'm alone in those thoughts and i'm just clinging to false hopes, i haven't plan B'd yet.

rr - I'm sure h4f will answer, but I call MY Plan B successful, even though my former marriage is as far from recovery as you can get.

But I'm very much recovered, thank you.

WAT

Wow. I thought this discussion was over, but I guess not.

WAT - You are the same one who advised me a week or two ago that I was not ready for Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Let's analyze whether Plan B is a good move for you:

You have young kids which makes Plan B very difficult - some contact is necessary.

You have some good evidence that OW is LB'ing your H.

You know NOT to LB your H.

Your love bank doesn't seem to be nearly depleted.

You're having necessary contact via MC.

The answer seems obvious, huh? Everyday that OW LBs your H and you don't, you're that much closer to him. Why go dark (Plan B) when you can contrast what OW is doing?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still believe every word. I did my best not to LB when he told me about the cruise, only because of the counselling I've had with SH. Otherwise, I probably would've balled my eyes out and called him names.

Plan B is not for me right now. SH agrees with me - or maybe he's just saying that because he knows that's what I want. In any case, I cannot do it. My poor justification for Plan B may be just that, but as long as I see my Plan A working on him, I CANNOT go dark.

I will let OW continue to LB and nag him about D. I will let her do all of the love bank withdrawals. I will let her make all of the AO's and DR's.

I know there are a lot of proponents for Plan B on this board - and maybe sometime in the future I will go dark. But not now.

Having said all of that, I still love coming here and getting advice from you guys - even if I don't like it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> My friends and family think I'm a nutjob for even trying to save this marriage, so I'm so thankful to have this forum.