Well I talked to my MIL this weekend I found out that she had fallen in a store and hit her head. So I called to see if she was ok, we talked for a little bit. Well I told her that her daughter was in denile and that daughter told me that I made MIL sick. My MIL then informed me that I did make her sick by telling her the truth, way to make you daughter take responsability for her actions by saying I made you sick. Well anyways my WW is coming over tonight to get her mail, I've had it it's time for her to take some responsibility. I'm going to tell her that I get to live in the ****ty situation that she created and she has no culpability. So I'm going to tell her that if this is what you really want get a laywer file papers and be done with it. Also that she needs to get the rest of her junk out of the house. I shoulda known better her family is so messed up with issues I don't know why I didn't look at these things before we got married I guess I was stupid. I still love my wife but I can't live in limbo like this I'm not strong enough to do this.

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]</small>

Just relax for a moment. First of all, I would stop all contact with members of her family even though your intentions may be true. It seems as though you are trying to use her family for support so that they take up your cause against her. Stop doing this. Talk to your family, not hers. As far as tonight....show her that you are different---with your actions, not words. Do not Love Bust when she comes over. Be respectful and helpful. This is how you can show you love her. If possible, just for tonight, don't even mention your problems. Good Luck

Listen Ingreatpain I have told her family and my family. Why should I not talk to them they are my family. If I didn't say anything to her family then I'm no better then my WW, I'm hiding her dirty little secret just as much as she is. It's time for her to face reality and deal with the guilt. You need to read the books that we suggested in your post before you go giving advice. I've got advice from posters who have been here for a long time. No I didn't call my MIL to get any info I didn't even want to talk about the A my MIL brought it up I just wanted to make sure she was ok after her fall. Like I said still my family till my W files for DV.

Believe me, we are all in this together. I'm just giving you another point of view.

John: You are pissed. I can hear it in your post. And God knows, you have a right to feel that way. The books do recommend outing the A to everyone, and sometimes, WS's families are instrumental in ending it. However, in all reality, now that they know, they will either have to be in denial about it (which seems like the course they are taking); heartbroken about it (and just as powerless as you to impact it); or riding wayward spouse like a wild pony (but probably would drive WW to the OM faster, as she would probably feel more rebellious and determinied about making that choice).

You have normally sounded patient, pained, and still in love with your W (despite her current lunacy). And I have read something here that I saw hopefully not too late. That is, unless with your heart of hearts, with your gut, with that soft secret spot inside your soul, YOU ARE SURE YOU WANT A D, don't go there.

And you are pissed, but I don't think you are "done" yet. If WW came home tonight, begged for your forgiveness, ended contact with OM, and started to work VERY DILIGENTLY on your M, would you kick her out? I doubt it. And this could still be your reality if you play your cards right.

Sounds like your Love Bank Account is in the "danger, danger will robinson" running on fumes mode. Sounds like the fury and rage of this really sucky situation is finally catching up with you.

Are you in Plan B? Just asking because this is what Plan B is for...to save the bank account from overdrawal. And not that I am an expert on Plan B, however, I do feel less anger, rage, frustration, and really PAIN from the whole damn thing since I went there. And I can tell that WH is sweating it (even if it is just a microscopic change, it was a change that I was unable to impact before..and I was DAMN good at Plan A). And I am not really looking at Plan B as a means to impact change in my WH. Really, I am looking at Plan B as the preliminary step to the rest of my life. The hard work that I have to do for me, so that one day, regardless of the outcome (recovery, divorce, whatever) I will know it was a decision that I thought about long and hard, that came at a time that was right for me, with the circumstances that I wanted, laying the groundwork for the kind of life that I want and deserve. No regrets. There are far too many regrets already (maybe if I had met WH's needs, maybe if I would have voiced my hesitation in him leaving country on business, maybe if I had lost some weight after second baby, maybe if I had wanted sex less, wanted sex more, given him better blowjobs, etc). I want to try and eliminate/reduce the regrets in my life from this point forward because, frankly, I don't think I can swallow (funny pun on words considering my last regret comment) anymore!

So, John, this is not what your soul really wants. You just want crazy-a$$ wife to wake up! So try and Plan A tonight, try the 180's (the I'm happy, cordial, but subtly disinterested, and definitely moving on game)...and don't do anything you would regret.

On the business of In-laws, I feel your pain. My inlaws live with me (even though WH does not), and they have gone from "son is a jacka$$" ...to "well, we thought something like this might happen, because you were really out of control with the anger and disrespect toward him, but he is still a jacka$$"...to "we don't want to be in the middle" ...to "we are moving out in a few weeks" and they are now totally detaching...walking around like [censored] themselves. Point is, WH is their son (albeit, to all concerned, a jacka$$) and I try to put myself in their shoes...if my son ever did this to his wife, I would first kick his butt, and then have to support him, because he is, after all, my son. Try to look at it that way (and this is going to sound ridiculous) but try not to take that personally. Your WW has drawn a line in the sand, and like it or not, fair or not, everyone will eventually have to chose a side to stand on, however involved/uninvolved they become in the situation.

So, have I talked you down at all. I can try and come up with more jokes!!! :-)

Thank you for the 2x4 ChristyV I needed that I will 180 my butt off and Plan A. I'm going to try and ask what emotional needs the OM was giving and I wasn't is this a good idea or not? I just started my Plan A about 2 weeks ago. I just hate sitting in our house and not having her there. I was on call for work so I couldn't go anywhere so that was bad. I find it hard to talk to her now my insides twist up but I should use my saying it's not about my want's, feelings, and desire's it's her's and I should just be there to support her as best I can. I think I was also upset because she said she was coming over Saturday to pick up mail and talk. I called to make sure she was ok all I got was voicemail. So I called her today at work to see if she was ok. She told me not to worry about her so I said you are still my wife I care for you and I will worry about you nothing is going to change that. Maybe that's why I was so mad. Thanks again for the 2x4.

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Johns98ck ]</small>

One more thing (I promise to keep it short, I know everyone's eyes are BLEEDING from my wordy replies)...but tonight is your chance to:

* Look damn good (shave, choose your most flattering outfit, cologne, etc...spend your nervous energy on looking good).

* Cook a scrumptous dinner (the house will smell awesome, and maybe she will be inclined to stay and get a bite).

* Act nice and tender (which sounds like it would not be too much of an act, you seem nice and tenderhearted)

* Be the funniest, most interesting person alive (you have all day to come up with something interesting to talk about...NO MARRIAGE TALK).

* Be the man she might be losing (be subtly detached enough to plant that valuable seed that says to her "S***, I just might lose him if I don't get my act together real fast because he is moving on")

* Actually look like you are moving on...go to the library and check out some books that you've always wanted to read, stop by AAA and spread out on the table literature about trips you want to take soon

* Be prepared for fogese and do not react. Be prepared for stupid comments like "It is good to see you are moving on," etc. These will be comments made to push you away and push your buttons. Just say "I can use life's circumstances to make me better, or make me bitter. I am choosing better." Then change the subject. Or be prepared for criticisms about outing the A to the in-laws. Just nod, and validate her feelings "I can see you are angry." or "I can understand why you would be embarassed about this" and don't say much else.

* Worst case, be prepared for her not to come. But it would not be a total loss. You would have a great dinner, with great company (yourself, looking damn good), and some new things to read (actually plan that next trip by looking over those travel brochures you collected).

YOU COULD MAKE AN IMPACT tonight, even though she would not show it for a million dollars. And worst case, even if you can not penetrate through her bionic strength fog, you will feel empowered, ready to take some control over your life, and have a taste of what really moving on with your life would feel/look like! :-)

Thanks again ChristyV you are my grounding rod in these trying times, your right I just need to worry about myself and show her what she might be missing out on. I look at little things that give me hope like when I went and got my own bank account as she requested she cried. I know there is nothing I can do but work on me at this point. I do like your one statement I can get better or I can get bitter your right I choose better. The part I think that knaws at me is that I'm not sure if I can wait 1 or 2 years I know this A won't last but I'm not sure if I will be there for my wife but I guess this is where Plan B would come in. I wish you luck with your Plan B Christy stay strong you can do it.

I am with you on the doubt of being able to wait 1-2 years. It has been six months and sometimes I think I have lost my mind waiting this long. My friends, my family wonder what the hell am I thinking.

But, that is when you tell yourself you are only going to worry about TODAY. Like the Bible says (I don't know if you are not a spiritual person, but for me there are a lot of truths in there that make all the difference for me): Matthew 6:34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." AMEN TO THAT.

hey john, i'm here and back at work and have read this post. I'm not as eloquent as christyV or some of the other people here but will try to say a few words. of course what i'm about to say is what i say to myself. what kind of message would you be sending to your WW if gave up and saught (or let her seek) a D? to me it sounds like, that i guess afterall my love was conditional and i can't stick it out.

but my love for my H is unconditional and even though i don't love what he's doing, i know that if he did open his heart to me again and tried to work things out, i know we would be happy again. from all the posts here and from reading dr. harley's books i know this to be true. like was said above worry about today because what you do today is what will affect tomorrow. I don't know where i read it but I think this chinese proverb is applicable to your situation (and many others including myself. "if you are ptient in one moment of anger, you will escape a hundred days of sorrow."

it's a pretty profound statement. don't give your w or her family anything to use again you in the future. concentrate on you (i know you're probably tired of hearing about that). i know you have said you are considering counseling, well there's no time like the present (if you can afford it). I have my first session w/SH tomorrow morning, really nervous but i know it's what i need to do and hope that he doesn't tell me i need to do something that i'm not ready to do.
prayers to you.

Thanks RR your right I'm not going to quit I'm going to put up a fight without LBing and being mean. I'm in this for the long haul well as long as I can take it you and ChristyV have given me my 2x4's and I will take more if other people have a comment but your right I'm going to schedule an appointment for counseling cause I need it. It's hard to be strong for myself and our marriage but I can multitask. LOL Thanks again you guys.

hey no problem, that's what we are all here for. i just posted to the furnitureman on his post regarding talking to the OM's parents. I really feel for him having just gone through that myself. read his post and add your 2 cents it will help him and help you at the same time. afterall, multitasking helps keep us busy so we can't dwell on things right?

Well talked to my W this evening man you talk about fog. She is still very angry about telling her parents. So I didn't LB very much. I did a few stupid things like told her to look outside herself and think about the person she is with what would she really think about a man that was getting a DV and causing another DV. I also said do you really think your going to have a relationship built on trust. I told her that I still cared about her which started her eyes watering. She said she was getting a lawyer and asked if I was going to contest the DV I told her of course I was. She didn't like that. She then asked about the house if I wanted to keep it and I told her yes she then starts crying bad asking me if I was going to sell the house that she wanted half. Why would she cry what difference does it make? I said also that since she is so fired up for DV that I was going to start dating again (I know not supposed to)but the reaction was priceless she had like the deer in the headlight look didn't know what to say. I also asked if I could talk to her or send her emails and she said yes. She has no idea what she wants she said she doesn't love me anymore. She also said that we should have never got married holy fog Batman. I did tell her the longer the affair goes on the more hurt I get. I figured she should know this. She said she was sorry for hurting me and that she didn't mean too. I told her I know you wouldn't hurt me on purpose but now that the affair continues on now you know your hurting me. I know not the greatest job in the world but it's darn hard not to LB.

it still takes a lot of courage and love to do what you did (just to even talk to her). many people would have thrown in the towel when they found out about their WS. no one is perfect but i think what you are doing says a lot about character. once your WW comes out the fog and chooses to work things out, it will say a lot about her too. we are all responsible for the choices we make and the man and wife are 50% responsible to way things are in our marriages.

i'll let you know how the session goes this morning. how's the no-smoking thing going?

Wanted a smoke real bad last night and this morning but still haven't had one so I'm doing good drinking lots of water. I also found out where his wife or x wife lives only like 3 miles away from where I work so I'm going to see her tonight. I'm also thinking of exposing the affair at my wifes work I'm not sure about doing this I will think on it. But when I talk to his wife I'm going to ask for his parents number so I can talk to them.

Bump for ChristyV to look at.

john, look at my new post on my session w/SH. it was pretty easy to schedule w/him. do it asap if you can. i think it would help give you some additional clarity.

Where is it I can't find it?

don't know what happened to it but i reposted it again.

John:

Super proud of you on the smoking front. Just think of it this way...if you can get through all of this without a smoke, you will have DEFINITELY kicked the habit. Another insight about that, it is a stupid analogy, but you will have a slight experience of BREAKING AN ADDICTION that might come in handy for you in the future (wink wink...the A addiction for your W).

As far as conversation with W...hmmmm.

I am glad you were not grovel-ly (is there such a word, if not, I should patent it, because it would be a word I could rightfully own with all the pathetic groveling I did at the beginning of my WHs A situation). You did communicate a moving on component (although, NOT TO SUBTLE BUDDY)!

She had dear in the headlights about your comment about dating because she is starting to have cake-eater syndrome, and was probably convinced you would stick around forever.

She cried because you said you still cared because, I think, she is suprised (and probably deep down does not even care about herself right now). She cried about the house, because it is symbolic of a life she built together with you.

I'm glad you told her you would contest D. It means this is something you don't want, and that you want to fight for your M.

And I am glad you told her about your pain. You have a right to express your pain, and how you feel about all of this, as long as it is not done in an accusatory, LB fashion (and from your account, it wasn't). She should know that her actions have consequences. If only she would have considered the long term consequences (5, 10, 15 year consequences of what she is doing) before it all started.

I think you did a solid job of connecting, trying not to go off on her (like you started off feeling like doing yesterday), expressing that you care, want the M, and want the best for her.

As far as the comment about what kind of person she and OM are, that was probably deflected by the bionic fog. But maybe, just maybe, a part of that penetrated, and started to plant a seed.

Something a pastor told me in my horrible A situation was, you have to use this time while the WS is still somewhat trying to connect with you, to prepare the "soil" and "plant as many seeds of love" as you can. (I HATE GARDENING ANALOGIES...UGH, DIRT, BUGS, IT'S HOT OUTSIDE, ETC). But the point is, it may remain dormant for awhile, but you are planting seeds, that if she allows them to, will bloom. That is what Plan A is about...gardening...no just kidding...planting seeds of love, the ability to have a healthy marriage, the ability to meet each others needs and live a fulfilled life, etc. These can just be quick glimpses or thoughts on behalf of your S, but it will be like "Wow, he really does love me." or "Wow, he wants to fight for me and our M."

Tell the OM's W...IMMEDIATELY...

I think it went well overall. But learn from the not-so-perfect parts and make them better next time!

Spend some more time doing Plan A, try to develop a taste for gardening, and you may have a fighting chance!!! :-)

Thanks for being a MB buddy.