Chris you are not a scumbag. We all have our crosses to bear and we all have parts of ourselves that we don't like, that aren't very becoming or honorable. Yes, we made horrible choices and did horrible things, but starting today we can choose to do the right thing and not make the same mistakes over and over again.

It is important to look in the past and see what led us to make such bad decisions and continue on the road to self-destruction and destroying the people we love. But we can't dwell on it. We can't let our bad choices and character defects define us, just like we can't let the A define us.

My mom has a saying, I think she got it from AA, "instead of living in the problem, live in the solution." I think that's a pretty good idea for us.

Self-discovery can be very painful. Especially when you know you've hurt yourself and the people you love. But, I think by you being willing to face those things that you don't like about yourself really says a lot about your character (in a positive way). Most people would choose to ignore their negative sides or refuse to admit they have issues. Give yourself a break!!

mrsx

Chris-
Hey buddy, I'm sorry about the stupid card. It seems like today is a little bit better day for you, which is good because it shows that you have the ability to soothe yourself a little bit easier now then before when the fog and pain were even more raw. It's interesting because the more that I get to know you through your posts, the more creepy it becomes how similar you and I are. You talked about how you made fake divorce papers to show to OW to "string her along" so she continued in the relationship. Well, I did the same thing. I made these fake divorce papers and showed them to OM so he thought I was getting a divorce. It's wierd to confess that out loud and to read it and see how messed up I was back then.

Triggers are probably always going to be there for us and that sucks, but we can control how they affect us. In 10 years we could run across something that will remind us of OM/OW and it'll still be a trigger but I'm sure it won't affect us nearly as much then as it would now. Time heals wounds and we have to remember that. Time is our friend, things will get better. 4 months is a long time for NC, but in the grand scheme of things and compared to 7 years of being with her, it's not uncommon that you would be hurting like this from seeing that card. The good thing is, as I said earlier, that you seem a lot calmer today and more in charge or things. These are good things, Chris. This shows just how far you have come. I'm sure in the past something like this would have set you back alot worse then it did this time. Of course it hurt initially- you gave your heart to this person for 7 years, you are going to just forget that.

As far as finding it easier to hate OW, I can relate to that as well. But, to hate her means that you still have feelings for her and allow her to control your emotions. This was a hard thing for me to grasp because I wanted to hate OM so much for hurting me, but I realized that the more that I allowed myself to hate him meant that he was still a part of my life and that he still controlled my emotions. When you think of her I think it's ok to think of her in bad terms (rather than remembering the good things) but I think that eventually you should strive for indifference and just concentrate on not thinking of her at all. Focus on your W and your upcoming trip with her. Try to do everything you can to get OW out of your head- even if the thoughts are about hate.

You're doing great Chris. You have a very strong support system here. We are all pulling for you. When I read your post I had tears in my eyes for you because I wish I could give you a hug and just sit down and talk you through it. I still go through days where I hurt Chris, so you're not alone. When I saw OM the other day it was hard but I concentrated so hard on not letting my mind think about him at all. I didn't succeed 100% but I think that I did pretty good. The card was a thing from the past- from the bad past. Don't let your mind wander to the details of when she gave you that card or how you felt then, etc. Don't let yourself do that because that'll just add to the withdrawal feelings. You're strong and you're getting stronger each day.

We love you and we're here for you!!

SG

Chris....I didn't get a whole lot from my IC but I'm glad that your's is delving deep into your life to help you make some sense out of things. I believe that we all have that hurting child in us that is still trying to find love and acceptance and healing. We all have our issues from the past that I suppose we are still trying to make better, albeit not always in the right way!! Unfortunately, I believe that every WS that I have met on here would agree, the A's only screwed us up more!!

When I ask myself what I got from the A, I come up empty. The bitterness and anger thing is so hard to let go of. At times, I think that I have it beat and then out of nowhere I can feel those emotions creeping back in. I think back to some of the hurtful things that the OM told me during and after the A. I'm glad I'm here by myself right now because the hurt is really overwhelming tonight for some reason. Chris, I asked the OM after the A was over if he had ever shed a tear or lost any sleep over me and the relationship. He told me so coldly, "not that I can remember"!

I'm sorry to be using your thread here for a minute, but I am so down tonight. You know if I had been in an A where we had both ended it knowing that it was wrong but both knew that it was going to be so hard to do the right thing. I wish that I could be as cold hearted as he is at times. He doesn't have to work at the indifference thing...it always came easy to him to be that way. I guess the part that still haunts me to the day is why do I let that still hurt me?

Lisa: don't worry about using this thread, use away... I hope you are feeling better today. I don't have much time to be on today but I wanted to just say I was thinking about you. The dream thing... read my post on SG's thread I think pg. 12 maybe 10 somewhere around there I left the post on the dream thing. I did do that and I can say I haven't had dreams about her. Even through my latest episode. Let me know if you can’t find it and I will dig it up for you. Take care and I will be back later today.

SG: I was so glad to see your post. Your words have a way of reaching my heart and soul. Thank you, thank you so much for being there. You and I, very scary...the similarities we have, wonder how many more we can uncover. I am totally swamped today, but I’ll be back later this evening. Take care and thanks again. Chris

Hey Chris-
How are you doing today? Are you still feeling a little down over finding that letter or are you feeling better about that?
For some reason, today is kind of a down day for me. I'm not sure why- there haven't been any triggers but OM is on my mind alot today. I am still able to tell myself "He is not my concern anymore" but it just seems like he's popping into my head more than usual. Not sure what that's all about....
Anyways, did you tell your W about that letter? Can she still sense when you're having "off" days, and if so, does she ask you what's wrong? Just curious.
Anyways, about the similarities- I think it's kind of eery too. I mean, I think back at all the deceptive things I've done and I'm so embarrassed that I did them. To see you write down that you did alot of the same things as I did is just wierd (driving by the house and looking for extra tire tracks in the snow, faking divorce papers, etc). There are alot more things too and I am truly embarrassed by how manipulative I can be- I feel very bad about that.
Anyways, I hope your day is going very well.

Take care Chris and I'll talk to you later,
SG

HI SG: Sucks that you are down today. This rollercoaster is so hard on the soul. I had a dream last night about OW. Funny I just wrote to Lisa yesterday about how I have not had a dream about her in a very long time. Maybe that’s why I had it. Who knows, who cares? I woke up with this feeling of wanting to be single. Not to be with the OW. Just to be on my own. I wish I could just sell my business, all my possessions and move to a cabin in the mountains. I think a winter home in the islands would be a must as well. Life can be so blasted hard. I think my heart is shutting down; I just don’t give a rat’s [censored] anymore. I am so tired of the pain, tired of the fight to rekindle my marriage, tired of dealing with all the crap from my past. Relationships just suck. My therapist told me awhile back that I am like a stallion pulling a plow. I want to be free to run, to experience all that life has to offer. I don’t want to be the old man in the nursing home; I would rather die young doing what I love. That old man scenario is not an end game that sets well with me. People find joy in their family I am not one of them, I fake it well for my girls, but the truth is I feel empty at home. It’s like I am playing a part in a movie that never ends. Sorry for the downer post …Just one of those days. Chris

Chris, I'm sure it is just one of those days. Don't give up - it really is a long road.

You and the others from Letting Go of OM probably haven't seen my post on In Recovery. Basically, I'm "resigning" from the board for a while. I find coming here keeps thoughts of the A alive too much and reading some people's posts about the OP have actually set me back and made me think about OM again.

Good luck, guys, I can't thank you enough for all your support. I don't intend to go forever I just need time to think all this through in the "real" world.

Jenny

KiwiJ- I have to say that we will miss you alot around here. You have alot to contribute to the posters here and your absence will be a big hole to this community. I understand what you mean though, but I guess coming here for me helps me to feel not quite so alone and to see that others are going through the same thing. Somedays it's hard to "remember" things about the A and it doesn't help to come here ,but for the most part I think it helps me. Please come back or at least check in once in awhile- we all want to know how you're doing.

(((Chris)))- Oh do I know how you feel. Somedays I can so clearly feel exactly what you wrote. I love my H and I love my life (for the most part) but sometimes it's depressing to know that I have to work so hard at it. I mean, sometimes I see these couples where it looks like their love comes so naturally and it gets me depressed in a way because my M doesn't come "naturally", it's alot of work. I know that all M are alot of work but some times I long for a M that just seems to work without trying so darn hard.

It took me a long time to get past the feelings of "faking my happiness" with my H. In fact, there are still days when I feel more like I'm going through the motions then anything else. But, I know that I love my H and I know that I really am happy with him and with my current life. Sometimes the fog still creeps in and I have doubts about the genuiness of my love for him though. Those days are hard and they leave me shaken for awhile. It seems like during those times is when I tend to think more about OM. It's hard because OM always seems to want to creep back in there when things may be a little off in my M so it's very important that I am strong and honest with myself and my H about my feelings. I can see where many WS's fall back into the same trap of the A- it's always going to be a temptation.

Just stay strong and know that you have a good life. Try to imagine what your life would be like if you were alone. It would probably be "fun and Exciting" at first, but that would get old. Especially during those cold winter nights when you would have noone to snuggle up with and keep warm. Or those days when you're feeling down and you have noone to help cheer you up. Sometimes it's hard to appreciate what we have but we have to keep reminding ourselves how blessed we are. Keep praying to God for his help and to help you find happiness in Him instead of in material things. That's what I need help in the most- finding happiness within myself rather than seeking from other sources.

It's a long, hard struggle Chris but we'll do it. We've come so far- just think, 4 months of NC for you. That's wonderful!!!! You're a strong person and I admire all that you've done to turn your life around. Stay strong and have faith that things will get better.

SG

kiwi: Stay well...Thanks for all of your support, You will be missed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I understand where you are coming from. Chris

SG: I think kiwi is right. Maybe being on this site reading everyone's sagas keeps the OP in the forefront of our minds. Lisa mentioned the dream thing on Wednesday... last night was night 2 of OW invading my dream world. You said you were having a harder time as of late. Maybe my meltdown triggered your thoughts. You know the fake D papers and all. Mixed emotions, one part of me wants to leave, but this site has kind of become a lifeline too. Kiwi just made me an honorable girl member. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Maybe we could start an email campaign between us, members of the SG thread club. With certain rules. Only talk about the positive, share romantic,fun ideas, and of course if one of us has a crisis we would be there for each other. Who knows maybe a year from now we could all get together with our spouses for a celebratory vacation? Kiwi is from the land down under. We could all just invite ourselves to her house. Let me know what you think. Chris

Chris- I think there is probably a connection between hearing everyone else's sagas and having it trigger things for us (I.E: dreams, etc). The email campaign would be fun- it's a good idea. And, I would love it if in the future we were able to get together and meet each other. I mean, I feel like I know you so well but I don't even know what you look like. It's kind of wierd...
But, I think the email idea is a good one. I will include my email address if you want it, if not don't worry about it- I understand. Anyways, I'm sorry that you're having your dreams invaded by the OW, those are always painful to deal with. I, thank God, haven't had one of OM for awhile (knock on wood).
Take care Chris and I think invading Kiwi's home in Australia sounds like a good idea to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SG

Email: tdmk75@hotmail.com

OK I've been lurking around to see if anyone was going to miss me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I find plans afoot to invade my house LOL Wouldn't that be great - I'd love it. Love the e-mail idea as well.

Also just have to put this in. I posted it on CV55's thread to Lisa. Sorry guys I'm not an Aussie. LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By the way, I really hate to say this but Down Under also means New Zealand, not far from Australia (3 hours by plane) and we look on them as you look on Canadians. Sort of cousins that we love to beat in sport! We call ourselves Kiwis after a native bird, not a fuzzy little fruit. LOL

All those funny accents at the Oscars were New Zealanders (Lord of the Rings). JL has actually been here!!!! It is a beautiful country and we have a LOT of American tourists here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you want to do something nice on a Friday evening have a look at this website about New Zealand. I'd love to know what you think.

www.purenz.com

Short retirement I know. I'm just going to try and visit a bit less often. The posts that set me back were from On the Edge and Dad to 3 Boys. The way they talked about their OP's made me miss the OM jerk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I think we thought we were in a good enough place now to help other people but I think we're all still very fragile.

Jenny

Hi Sg: Did you get my email?

Hey Jenny…thanks for the link… what beautiful country you live in. Definitely worth a visit or maybe a move. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

My Email Lt34321@yahoo.com.

I took a break from MB for a few days hoping to stop the dreams about the Op. Not working <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> for some reason they are getting worst. I woke up this morning totally sad and depressed. My dreams are so vivid and real. I remember every detail and that just sucks. It is so frustrating, not having control over this. Chris

Hey Chris-
Just sent you an email, sorry it took me so long.

SG

Hi everyone and thanks Chris for having a look at the link. We do have a very good lifestyle here (when we don't mess up our personal lives).

I've been posting all over the place at the moment. H and I saw OM's wife and daughter at our local shops. We had just got into the car and she didn't see us but it absolutely threw me. I haven't seen her for years and had forgotten how slim and pretty she is. I just got so angry with that rotten, stinking OM ba***d. He must have been having the time of his life. Lovely wife and family, not too bad looking gf. It just makes me so ANGRY.

Then to top it off, yesterday H was off work and started going through my cellphone records. He found a number he didn't recognise and rang me at work to ask if I was still calling OM. I told him to ring the number and he did and it was my voicemail. I was so hurt and upset and messed up.

We sorted it out last night but both feel like total jerks. Him for not trusting me and me for putting us through this.

What a sucky mess this all is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Jenny

Kiwi-
I'm sorry that you're having a rotten day. It sucks to be reminded of OM through triggers (especially his W and daughter). Just hold your head high and know that you're better off without him in your life. It'd be nice if it was realistic to move away from all the triggers and reminders of OM wouldn't it?
As for your H, just know that he is trusting you with blind faith right now so don't let his questions set you back. He is trying to give you his trust but sometimes he's going to have a set back too. Just show him that you love him and you're there for him.
Stay strong Kiwi and don't let today set you back.

SG

Thanks SG. H and I are fine now - we had a really good talk again last night.

I just wish the triggers weren't there.

Jenny

Chris...I had to get away for a few days from MB. I cannot tell you how sorry I am for being responsible for triggering your dreams by telling you about mine. I am so sorry.

Lisa, I'm so pleased to see you back. Now you know don't you that Chris would have had those dreams whether you told him about yours or not.

We're all so much in the same boat on this thread - it's my support and my friends.

See you on here soon.

Jenny

KiwiJ. thanks for the welcome back. I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I get so down on myself that I just want to withdraw from everybody and everything that I hold dear and that includes MB. MRSX and I email each other frequently to check on each other. She is an amazing lady!! I didn't want to really share my regression here, I guess mainly because of not wanting to disappoint people who I have assured that I'm alright!!!

I have done a lot of soul searching lately mainly to understand my need that is still very much at the forefront of getting closure from OM. I was able to chat with MRSX the other night and let me tell you, this woman's counsel to me was 10 times better than my IC gave. I guess because she understands me like no one else could unless they've been through what we as WS's have been through.

I tend to over simplify this healing process and I am learning that it's going to take time. There are going to be up days and down days. I guess my worst enemy is myself! The only way that any of us here are going to get through this is to "go through this". There are no short cuts and no "psyching" ourselves out to make the pain go away.