RR, there are a lot of phone card in internet for only 1cent or 2 cents per minute. I will see whether I can find some for you. If you go to costco or sam's club, it is about 3 cents.

i will be starting a new thread for myself to talk about just the everyday kind of stuff because i want this thread to specifically address my session w/SH and if anyone wants to discuss those or their own experiences w/counseling. my intent is to be able to refer to this thread to remind myself of what me and SH talked about but to also help others so that maybe they can get an idea of what to expect if they were to go into counseling w/MB. prayers to all.

I found couple numbers, try to see whether their rates are good.

1-800-815-9975. It is about 3.5 cent/min.

1-800-798-0161.

i'm bumping this up so that it does fall off the forum. not sure when my next session w/SH will be. maybe the 10th of june? not sure. will post when i have it scheduled.

hoping that Heroswife still comes here and checks on me and is still praying for me.

prayers to all, RR

for what it's worth my next session w/SH is on 6/10/04.

RR, good for you. I will pray for the session.

I got your reply about my letter. I will revise it and post later. Thanks.

^ for phantom

Had another session w/SH this morning.

Brought SH up to date on what has transpired since my last session (about 2 weeks ago). told him about the conversation i had w/my H (on 5/30/04) about the letter i had sent in response to the letter my H had sent that he would be filing for D soon, etc. SH said that the conversation was good and what i said/did was good. told SH that my mom had sent another postcard to my H. I told SH about the conversation i had w/my H on 6/1/04 and my first LB. he said overall that what i said was okay. told SH about the next conversation i had w/H was on 6/2/04 about the bank accounts, etc. i told SH that i left a message on my H's cellphone on 6/5/04 regarding an Adam sandler movie (happy gilmore, which was on TV recently) and that even though i have seen it a dozen times i actually saw a part i hadn't seen before and that i was watching it at the gym so it had subtitles on the screen and that when it came to one of the scenes towards the end of the movie that it siad "maniacal laughter" to describe what a clown machine was doing in the movie. long story short, i thought this was hilarious, who uses maniacal to describe laughter? and thought my husband would get a kick out it and so i said all that on the msg i left for my H on his cellphone. SH said that was an excellent message to leave.

i also read him the note that basically he (SH) had already approved for me to send along w/a photocopy of a card that my H sent to me before we were M that said all the usual mushy stuff. here is what the note said w/the photocopy "here is an example of how feelings can change because how you once felt about me and now you feel differently. our feelings for each other can change. because of what we now know and how we have the ability to end up in addition to an understanding of how we can maintain them once the feelings ecome what we want them to be. because i want you back knowing i'm not the person who will hurt you again, roughroad." SH said that was good as well.

I also read SHthat i would be sending to my H for our anniversary (next thursday) and that i would be putting a couple of the phone bills w/it. the note said:

"I can't help but think of what we were doing eleven years ago june 17th. i was filled with such happiness and anticipation of becoming your wife that i couldn't sleep. i know you felt the same on that long flight from korea to utah (he was TDY at the time 6mos prior to our wedding day). With tears that glistened, my eyes fixed on you and thinking of the life we'd share. we both said "i do." memories were gathered that we will never forget. with many happy times gone by and others when we cried. with all the ups and downs we'be had in learning, i know in this heart of mine, i'd marry you again, talking you as my husband and you choosing me to be your wife. i love you, roughroad"

SH said the note was good. i asked him if i should put a separate note w/the phone bills because my H said he was going to take care of them but they are still coming to me. he said just to put a short note that says "i wasn't sure if you were aware i was still getting these, please call me if you have any questions."

i discussed w/SH about my trip at the end of this month to the state where my h is and our house and at the present i haven't told my h i was coming and that i was afraid if i did then he would make arrangements to not be there (that's what he did the last time). but i told SH that i knew i had to tell my h becaue if i didn't then it would be perceived as an LB, a manipulation, and that i was trying to control. that even though i would be extrmenly sad and hurt if i didn't see my H while i was there (only there for 3 full days) that it wasn't about me at this point and what i thought was fair. SH said that at least 1 week prior (nothing less) to say something like i was planning a trip there to pick up a few things and that i was going to have a yard sale while i was there (which i am) etc.

i told SH that of course the point of my trip would be to see my H and him to see me but it was to pick up some of my clothes (can't wear a lot of the ones i have due to my weight loss), to see my dogs, and to pick up the computer. SH asked me about the computer and i said that i wanted the computer so that i could do email and the forums at home versus at work and that if my H needed a computer when he went back to school then he could use one at school. SH said to treat as a negotiation, that if we can't agree then to step back and take a break and then re-negotiate. because my H could say that if that's what i needed the computer for (email, etc.) then i could use the one at work or go to the library.

negotiation brings me to the next point i wanted to talk to SH about, the dogs. SH said to use negotiation as long as i can. that even though i knew i told myself that i would not tolerate the dogs being pawned off on any of my H's friends, etc. that i shouldn't come off that way. that my H was still extremenly sensitive to feeling like he's being controlled and that if he thinks that he still has some control or that he is still able to make some decisions then it's better to approach the situation that way. i again explained to SH that i had a truck and that it would be very difficult to bring 2 big dogs in the cab for a 12 hour trip and that i didn't want to bring them up here one at a time. my goal was for my H to bring them up to me because he has a car that would hold both of them comfortably. SH asked what my H's feelings were about the dogs, i said i truly don't know but my impression is that he doesn't really care about them. that maybe he did at one time before we moved to the house we are in because he used to take them and do things w/them like hiking and swimming or play ball but now they are probably just an annoyance.

initially, when i first found out about the A and he talked about getting his own place and asked what about the dogs. he said he would like one of the dogs (the older one) but i said it wouldn't really be fair to the dog for him to be stuck in an apartment all day and him being gone all the time and he agreed. then the issue of the dogs came up later because he said he needed to fix the yard and couldn't do it if the dogs were still there. he had called my mom w/out telling me and asked if she could take one of the dogs and that he had a friend who would watch the other dog. my mom didn't call and tell me he called her but the next time i talked to her she told me and that's where i drew the line. i was not going to tolerate my dogs being around anyone that my h knew, mainly the OW, that these were my dogs and he gave me one of them 12 years ago to keep me compnay and remind me of my h and i would not stand for breaking up my dogs and shuffeling them to and fro.

shortly after i talked to my mom i talked to my H. i didn't come right out and tell him my mom told me they talked only that there was a cost to all this and that it was going to be expensive to get a place of my own that took dogs and i didn't have that kind of money but i was "firm" on that i didn't want the dogs to be around anyone that my H knew. he called me the next day and told me to not worry about finding another place that he would keep the dogs isolated in the yard in order to fix the yard and the he understood about not wanting the dogs to be around people he knew.

anyway, SH said to treat as a negotiation for as long as i can. even though i have in my head what i will not tolerate that we just need to keep coming back to the issue until we can reach a POJA on what to do. i told SH that come august i may have to take things into my own hands if we have not agreed and what to do about the dogs (for my H to bring them to me). he said that he understood and that there does come a time where things have to be made plain and not messed around with but until that time to negotiate. so right now my plan is to come back from my trip and maybe the 2nd week of july talk to my h about bringing the dogs up here. my next trip to where he is will be in mid august to get the rest of the household goods shipped.

SH said just to keep doing what i'm doing that the future will be different than the past no matter what happens here. As long as my H says that what i'm doing now WOULD have made a difference in the past then it stood to reason that is still COULD make a difference. i asked SH if he thought my H might be losing respect for me or think i'm weak by what i'm doing. because some people would say that i was tolerating what he was doing. SH said that people have different definitions of toleration and what you should do. that he didn't think my H didn't respect me and in fact might even say some day that he respected me because of what i'm doing and others would to. that my number one priority right now is CHANGE. that the change and the course i'm on needs to be consistent because the WS changes w/the weather and if i'm always consistent then that might make it easier for him to come back to. and maybe at some point down the road when the issue of change is not the priority then the infidelity might start to be an issue.

i asked SH if there was anything else i could do. if i should continue to use mail and phone as contact or if it should all be phone, etc. he said that i'm doing a good job w/both. i told him what my contact has been w/MIL/FIL (just cards) and he said that was fine because right now they are acting on what they perceive is less than likely (a rebuilt M) and that's all they know how to do and same for me, that i'm acting on the fact that it is less than likey that the A w/the OW will last.

I'll probably talk to SH one more time before I go on the trip, depends on the $$ issue. will let you guys know. thanks for reading, prayers to all and God Bless, RR

RR, what a detailed report. I think you are doing a good job, not SH. But it is always good to have someone on your side telling you that you did good. SH told me the same thing about the A is not the first priority, it is the M. But the WH is attracted by the A, how to work on the M? That is something I don't understand. I will pray for you, keep doing what you are doing.

yeah lost i hear you. it helps to have people validating what you are doing and encouraging you. i'm not totally convinced that i need to continue sessions w/SH, i mean no one is telling me that i have to but i still don't want to at some point look back and regret that i didn't counsel w/SH. afterall, my H did talk to him a couple of times. certainly it helps to talk to someone who is objective even though a little biased because he is pro-marriage. but as far as i know my H isn't talking to anyone else about stuff.

also again, as i told you that if/when my H comes back i think we need to do counseling and it would be ideal to do that w/SH, especially since H has talked w/SH. i think it's easier to talk to SH a little along the way then to stop talking to him and then pick it back up months from now and he does really do a good job at keeping me focused. but as you know. we will have to see how that goes due to the $$. anyway, i'll probably try to schedule another session before i leave maybe the 24th or 29th of this month.

gotta go, thanks so much lost for your encouragment of me you have been a blessing to me and i hope "things" are stable for you. remember what you told me about learning lessons and that we are God's lambs, don't forget that. prayers to you, RR

RR, prayers to you too. Hope you to have a great weekend.

I will talk to SH again definitely before implmenting Plan B. But I will also talk to the pastor in Cannda and pray with him to seek answer from GOD.He is so close to GOD. I feel so calm when I talk to him. It is GOD's spirit working on him. Even "things" are sort of stable here, I don't want to put up too much hope to WH. But it is really hard to live a life like this. Let's hang together to go through this.

don't want this to fall off the forum. going to try and make an appt w/SH for 6/23/04.

i was able to get an appt w/SH on 6/23 at 0930, will let you know how it goes.

^ for graycloud

not even sure how many sessions i've had now. received a few statements in the mail from MB and the amount of $ spent on the sessions is staggering. yes, i think it's worth it but i have officially run out of money to pay for anymore sessions, i've maxed out credit cards and i just can't make the money appear. anyway back to the session.

brought SH up to date on what has transpired since my last session. read him the message my H sent for our anniv and i asked SH what he thought about and he said "it's frustrating." my H continues to look at change as something that would be void of mutual enjoyability. that my H continues to believe that the feelings he has for me (he doesn't love me) are going to continue from now until eternity based on how he feels today. again, if my H maintains that he doesn't love me anymore than of course i agree w/him and say "of course you believe that, that makes sense, you haven't looked into the alternatives and that this is a single option issue and that's why i continue to struggle because i have looked into thse things, my idea has both of us being happy."

SH says our M has been rot w/change, it's covered w/it but H has a flaw in his belief system and he just doesn't believe that it can still go the other way. my goal still remains the "success of the sum of 2 parts" one is my H and the other is me and what i need to do is to make my part or elment as strong as i can because if/when H ever changes his mind or wants to work on the M then I'm going to have to continue to take the majority of the workload.

i told SH that i was probably getting pretty anxious and scared of my upcoming trip. i was still trying to anticipate problems, conversations, etc. wanted to verify how i should "act." SH said to be upbeat, not overly dramatic, more of a matter-of-fact attitude and to always maintain that, to always go back to the saying that "i'm not ready for that," whether it be the sale of our house, D, or whatever. SH agreed that my biggest fear is the unkown and because i don't know how things are going to be and the fact that i like to be prepared, is taking it's toll on me.

i'm not expecting a lot of interaction w/my H because in truth i may not have any. however, unlikely that it is that my H will have changed him mind by the time i get there or even in the future, i asked SH what to say because i didn't want to be wishy washy because i knew what i wanted, NC and counseling. SH said to say "i'm glad you asked and you can talk to my counselor about what is needed, he has been helping me to understand." if my H is persistnet or asks me to tell him what i want him to do that i can actually say "steve told me not to answer these questions whould they ever come up. i would really like for us to be happy and i don't want to do anything to jeopardize that so i would be best if you talk to him."

even though i wasn't sure how SH could answer, if he would answer, or what to expect i asked SH about the time factor thing and how it looked in my situation given me and my H have such minimal contact and how he said he was going to file but........SH said he didn't want to get my hopes up and didn't want to get them down either, that it would not really help me in the state i'm in. i followed it up w/talking about where my H is in his life and what he has said that he's 33 years old, a waiter at a seafood resturaunt, and hasn't finished college yet. SH didn't really see it as a MLC but more that my H is not happy w/the choices he's made and that he doesn't finish what he starts or is just unmotivated.

i asked again about the OW and where she fits in all this. SH said that the thought patterns of the OP usually include that the situation is not due to them, that it's the WS and if it makes them happy to do what they are doing so be it. that WS is chosing to be w/me (OP). some times it can seem as a rescue, like they are rescuing the WS because they can do things better than anyone else. but still the attitude of the OP is flawed and often self-serving and that often they start to question wheter the WS will do the same thing to them one day.

SH did also agree w/me that i feel that my H wants me to be the one that files for D. that's actually one thing that i am for sure of that i will not be the one that does that. i shouldn't bring up any subject unless i'm ready to discuss it or entertain the idea (offers on the house, etc) again to always revert to being matter of fact and pleasant but not to go into detail w/anything because i'm not ready. SH said i have a good plan and that i truly am doing the best that i can given the situation and to keep up the good work.

i won't talk to SH until july after i get back, maybe the 2nd week. don't know but i'll bump this thread up as needed so it does fall off the forums. prayers to everyone.

came back to say another thing i talked to SH about and that is the possibility that my H will start to get "mean." he hasn't been but i just want to be prepared and i know he will be frustrated at the fact i don't want to let him or a M go. SH said that it is very likely that my H might start to behave this way as more of his "taker" starts to take over and that he becomes more adversarial (sp?). that my H will get in a dark place that he just feels there are certain things that he needs to do and the fact that he says he needs to move on and that i need to let him go and yet here i am not doing those things, will definitely add some internal conflict for him.

so i'm trying to be prepared for this as well. i will just have to maintain the high narrow road and basically just "take it." i need to follow my words w/actions and if i say i've changed and then just react to h in away that shows that i haven't changed or validated that he didn't think that my changes would be permanent then i would have lost any ground that i have gained. maybe if it does come to that then i might know a little of how it feels more or less. because i was often domineering and "mean" to my H and maybe this will be part of the continued lessons i'm learning.

only time will tell and only God knows what the future holds. just praying that i will continue the changes he has made in me and that i will no longer hurt those who love me or at least used to love me.

Great summary, as always! Sounds like SH kept his cards close to his chest again.

I often expect my WW to start getting mean (well, she's already being mean, but you get the idea.) Sooner or later, the WS may start to view our inaction as some type of control, in that we don't want to go along with their plans.

Sounds like you're on the right track though. It's a big help to have SH confirm your actions!

I haven't talked to WW about rescheduling with SH yet. I think she's playing hookey from work, as she's not answering her email (generally the one medium that she actually replies to me with) Her credit card still seems to be fully functional though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Though generally when she plays hookey from work, it's an indication that she's depressed, so maybe that's a good sign, on some level. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ June 23, 2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: phantom8808 ]</small>

Dear RR,

I greatly appreciate your input regarding your situation. I don't post alot but I learn alot from your SH upates.

I realize it was your anniversary recently and I thought what you were sending to your husband quite eloquent.I somehow missed his reply. If it is not too painful coul you share it?

You and your husband continue to be in my prayers.


ayslyne

RR, thank you for sharing. My dear sis, you are always in my prayer.

Reading your session is like going through mine exactly. I would expect to get the same advice. I haven't have a chance to make appointment yet. You know how crazy I am now. But I will do sometime either tomorrow or Firday.

Regardging mean things WH does, he is already doing it, disappearing. He did more today. I will post it in my thread.

phantom (that's a really neat member name) those darn signs that we look for! i think it would be fair to say that your W is feeling guilt, depression, conflict, etc. someone once told me here to not really buy into the idea that the WS is really all that happy inside even though they may seem like it on the outside. SH also told me that these WS are more in the active pursuit of happiness versus actually experiencing it because what they are typically experiencing is the highs of their emotions and the way they feel, and after all they are all in addictions.

ayslyne, you know again, i am just doing what i can. maybe another motive for me posting these sessions is just another form of reinforcement for me in trying to really grasp what i learn. as adult learners we often have to hear things or do things over and over before we finally "get it." even more reason why i need to continue what i'm doing w/my H. i don't know if my H actually was responding to what i sent him or not but he did send me an email on our anniversary and this is what it said:

"Hi roughroad,
I hope your day is going as well as it can be. I just want you to know that this day will always hold significance in my life. I have some very fond memories from the past. Unfortunately, circumstances have changed and I can not celebrate
this day as I once had. This is an important date in both of our lives, but now we must move on and begin again. I know this is not what you want to read, but it is time we both went foward and created a new future for ourselves. I hope
that someday you can achieve this and we can be friends for life. This date will always hold a place in my heart as will you. WS"


of course, you have what SH had to say about this message. i wasn't even expecting a message at all. when i send things to my H or leave messages for him, i really have to expect that he won't read them but as SH said it's more of getting my H to think of me and not letting him compartmentalize what's going on. so if he gets an email from me even if he doesn't open it and read it, he's still thinks "roughroad" before he deletes it. same thing w/the mail or phone messages.

lost, right back at you sister in Christ and will be putting something in the mail for you today.

again, thanks everyone for the prayers, i pray for people here daily and pray that God accepts my prayer on behalf of the MB members as one that is an "effectual fervent prayer" and that it will "availeth much." God Bless, RR