Does anyone have any websites or books to recommend answering my son's (age 5) questions about our seperation? So far I just tell him we both love him and are talking about it. He has started to ask the same ?'s over and over so my answers are not satisfactory. It is heartbreaking and frustrating that I can't be honest and say "your dads a jerk" LOL
Thanks, Jenn

Jen,

I am not familar with your story. Can you give a brief summary?

As for your child, well I didn't go by a book but my son was 5 when this all started. I learned it was important to show him tthat the lines of communication were always open between him and I. His father had to work on his own communication with his son.

When the Ws told his son and I that the WS was moving out, our son cried (he was in 1st grade) and said that he would have to quit school beause other chidlren were going to make fun of him. When asked why, son said that if he didn't have a dad, he couldn't go to school. See how traumatic it was? I was soooo angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> at the WS. Still the WS left.

That was just before I found MB. My son was a quite one when it came to his feelings. I would periodically ask if he wanted to talk, gave and accepted hugs.

My son learned to recieve and give support. Eventually at 6 years old, he worte a letter to his dad. 4 sentences comprising 2 statements and 2 questions. Very much to to the point. He asked his dad, why he left and why he wanted a D, then told his father he loved him.

This made the WS cry and I am glad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ws came home with that letter but about 4 months later.

When a question came up, I did not claim to have all the answers. Some of them I told my son to ask his father. It was better that way. You should have seen the questions our son asked his dad. The WS was dumb enough to accuse me of putting words in our child's mouth. But the WS also knew we had a smart child so he in reality he knew I did not coerce our child at all. Those words where from his little heart, not mine. Even the OW accused me of such. What a nut.

Hope this helps.
L.

As much as I'm hurting through this, my 8yr old Son too is having a really tough time.

We left wayward Mom in the town we were living in and moved to a new town. My Son has had some really tough adjustments to make.

I get daily reports from the school about his behaviour. Not very good, I'm afraid. I've explained to the teachers and caregivers the nature of the situation and they are being very understanding and helpful. We are trying to get him some counselling through student services.

Throughout all of this, he has tried to be a counsellor to both his Mom and I. He knows way too much about what is going on. Some of which we've let slip and a heck of a lot that he's figured out on his own.

I don't know what advice to give, 'cause I'm still figuring all this out. My Plan A for WW sucked, but as far as my boy is concerned, those are the rules I try to follow, ie. no disrespectful judgements (towards WW), no angry outbursts, etc...

Keep posting and let us know what you find.

dewt

Wow this board is busy anyone else with young children have suggestions?
Orchid- My story- Been married 8yrs with a S5, D1, and 5 months pregnant. D-day was 2/2/04. WH came home the next day and told me he was staying. He continued contact with OW (thought they could be friends) and was honest about talking to her. I told him NC or he needed to find somewhere else to stay. WH moved in with family on 2/26, probably would have moved in with OW but she lives out of state. I discovered this site later that week bought SAA and have been in Plan A since about 3//1.
My S is very close to WH and asks constantly when is Daddy going to sleep here again. I just tell him I love him, WH loves him and we are talking about it. It just doesn't seem to be enough. It is breaking my heart, but I believe allowing WH back before he is willing to have NC is wrong since I have already made that stand.
Jenn

Wow, this is tough to read. Sorry, I have no advice to give, I can only offer my support. Makes me thankful that my W choose me and choose to stay.

My DD started asking at around 5 why Mommy left.

That was kinda tough, I considered two options:
1. The worthless whore was nailing some bartender she knew when she was flunking out of college and din't give a damn that we had a family here sweety.

2. Well honey, Mommy was not very happy and sometimes grownups don't get along together. Your mom needed to change some things to be happy and now she is much happier - but both of us have always loved you completely and always will. Moms and dads sometimes aren't able to stay together and be happy but they never divorce their kids, neither of us will EVER stop loving you.

I went with number 2.

Why wasn't Mommy happy with us Daddy?
"Honey it was not 'us', she was unhappy being with 'me'. Mommy just wanted different things than daddy did (Daddy wanted to work, make the new house nice and take care of you two, mommy wanted to f--- a bartender who later dumped her sorry [censored] honey - left out parenthetical part)

Daddy, how could ANY woman not be happy with you, you're the bestest daddy there ever was!

(....and that's why I never speak about your mother in any way, shape or form that could be called negative.)

From what I saw in a test group of one:
1. Adult problems are not the kids problems, only share what they need to know.
2. Make it clear that both of you still love the kid! I have heard people here say that the children deserve to know what kind of man/woman their other parent REALLY is so they told them "Daddy lied to mommy and kissed another girl because he doesn't care about anyone but himself" yeah, great, you just paid off some therapists student loans, real cute.

Kids aren't asking about affairs, personality conflicts or any of that crap. Kids are asking "Is everything going to be OK and do you and other parent love me and promise never to leave me?"... and the answer they need is 'Yes'.

Our 8yo is doing splendidly, very secure, very happy. She sometimes gets sad about going back and forth but totally digs the two christmas deal. Kids are by nature quite appropriately self-centered. They don't need to carry our burdens - they need to know that THEY are going to be OK and that THEY are loved. They need to feel safe - everything else is details.

I disagree completely with 2ofakind's advice. I didn't tell my two youngest that their father was having an affair, and in retrospect I believe it was a mistake not to have told the six year old (the youngest one was barely verbal at the time). The older ones of course knew when he introduced the younger ones to the OW only six weeks or so after he left, and one of them informed the rather clueless middle ones immediately, a few minutes before I heard what had transpired.

You don't need to tell him that the father is a jerk, because that is an opinion rather than a fact. It is important to tell the TRUTH - you should never lie to your kids. Don't feed them garbage like the parents were not happy together - do you really want them to grow up thinking that their parents both believe it is all right to tear apart a family simply because you don't feel "happy?" I firmly believe you should tell him something on the order of that the father left because he found another woman that he would rather be with, and it is also perfectly ok, and the right thing to do, to tell the child that this behavior is wrong and hurtful. I do not think it is right to tell the child that the father does or doesn't love him - you have no way of knowing that for sure.

Yes, yes, yes!!! I agree wholeheartedly with your advice Nellie.

The WS did not betray just you, they betrayed the whole family. It is tough keeping your opinions out of the mix, but they do deserve the facts!!!

If mommy or daddy is off with OP, then explain that...and tell them how much it hurts you and tell them your hopes for the future...

"WS is not living with us anymore and they are now spending time with OP. I am very hurt and sad and hope that we can stay M. How are you doing?"

Yes, 2OAK, kids are very self-centered. We tend to want to explain to them about the situation. We could spend more time asking them how they are doing, what their thoughts are. Imagine being the BS with little or no knowledge about the situation, and that's often the place you'll find the kids...

Oh, this broke my heart. I have D 12, S 8. D is already having anxiety, headache etc. She knows too much. This morning, S asked why isn't Daddy here. We both cry holding each other. But just kep telling him I love him and will never leave him.

Actually Nellie what i told her was true. her parents were not happy together and it had nothing to do with her. Garbage about her mother being unhappy? no, that was fact. Maybe you ought to consider whether you self-righteous declaration that to NOT destroy the other parent to the child is garbage and ask yourself whether you did it for them or so they could know you are right? A toddler needs to learn about adultery? Nice.

There are things both parties do wrong when a couple divorces and we can agree to disagree on this one. Call it garbage? Fine, I'll take off the politically correct and politeness and suggest that making your spouse look like garbage to a toddler is spiteful, manipulative and vindictive and pious claims of their right to know a sorry excuse for using them as a weapon.

I did not lie to my daughter - I answered her question in a way that gave her the information she needed and did not cause cause her to be angry with her mother. She needs two parents focused on what she needs during a difficult time - she doesn't need to feel like she has to choose sides and assign blame.

Instoducing the kids to OW 6 weeks after you split up is reprehensible behavior - great way to lose your kids in court too. THAT is something i completely agree with putting a stop to.

Too often parents involve their kids in things they do not need to be involved in. You can say that everything you said was true.

To say that what their father did was hurtful and wrong puts them in the middle. A 15 year old can have that conversation. A toddler? A toddler isn't real good at making up their own mind. Daddy/mommyleft for someone else and that was wrong and hurtful is not information a 5 year old needs Nellie. It might make you feel better but that can really damage the kids. My ex wife was a terrible wife - she's a pretty good mom. If my daughter asks me when she is grown and understands the dynamics I'll share more of what happened but I'll let her mother explain it first.

Would it be good for your ex to detail every mistake and flaw you have made? Would it be wise if my ex got asked about ehr affair by my daughter and went on for an hour about why daddy isn't good enough? No.

A 5 year old is not an adult. You don't want to shield them from everything - she understands that people sometimes divorce and that is sad. Is she ready to learn all the awful things in the world? No, when she's older, if she wants or needs to know more she will. That isn't garbage, that's putting the child's interest ahead of any need i have to get even with my ex.

Pretty often a couple having problems tells the kids everything wrong with the other parent and some of it is likely true.

My 8 year old is not stupid and will make up her own mind about her parents. Some day she'll want to know more and have a context to evaluate the information with.

And in our case her mother did love her. Because your spouse does not love you does not mean they don't love your child. Thier actions by having an affair are not right, nor do they demonstrate love for the child since being a good husband or wife is the best thing you can do for your child but an amazing number of kids from divorced homes are totally messed up due to parents who felt the need to explain why their other parent is bad.

Is the whole story that your ex was wrong and did hurtful wrong things or did you detail what you did wrong in the marriage and each hurtful act that you commited? Does the 6 year old hear every mistake, every wrong thing you did or do? Why do i doubt that?

Sorry, their your kids, you'll do as you deem best i just hope that you are very clear about WHY they need to know the details.

It seems to me like a very tempting way to stick the dagger into the WS and make them pay by using the children as a weapon.

Which of your failures should they be exposed to? ...at age 5 when the real question is "Mommy, am i going to be loved and protected?"

Sorry - call my approach garbage, suggest that I lied but frankly your high horse here sounds an awful lot like you worrying about being right.

Tell ya this much - my daughter is making perfect grades, she laughs, she plays and when both of her parents are together with her mom's BF and my fiance she can relax and enjoy herself free of fear that we'll fight because we made a decision to keep our issues between us and treat each other in a respectful and edifying manner whether we're together or apart. Daughter has a strong, secure, happy home with both of us.

So given my garbage approach a question - when you and yours are at some event of the childrens how at ease are they? Do they get to enjoy graduation, baptisms, etcetera without watching to see if you guys are fighting? How's the relationship with Dad? ...or have they learned that Dad is bad and mom is all they need.

yes, you really pissed me off. Given your ability to call my parenting approach garbage i can imagine your diplomacy when telling their kids about what you think of their father.

I'm with 2oak here. I came into a blended family as the new stepmom (after a divorce, I wasn't the OW), and I know that my stepson had two parents who did the best they could to reassure him that they both loved him and that they never bashed the other parent (or me, to give credit to the X). They were mature and child-centered, and I respect that totally. I believe it is very wrong to tell a child that the other parent is "causing" the problem. You can't expect them to hear this without having problems with their feelings - the kids still love the WS, no matter what garbage is happening between the adults.

I was going to edit some of that anger from my reply but figured better to leave it said and explain it.

This made me really angry and I could have replied a little less angrily and it isn't personal. When you feel your parenting skills are being questioned it draws an agry response.


I have a friend going through divorce right now. A day before the temproary orders hearing his STBX files a motion with the court to allow only supervised vistitation because he is a danger - 2 minutes before EOB with the hearing at 9 the next morning.

Here's the thing, When they split i talked to her and to the older boy and both said the youngest missed dad and wanted to see him and was angry that he could not. A day before the hearing the kid says he's afraid of his dad. No history of DV of any sort - raised his voice a time or two for sure but Mom is very clearly poisoning the younger one, showing court papers to the older one and telling him 'see what he's doing to me' and now the older one hates dad.

Dad had no affair - I think mom is having one and she sure sounds like it.

The right thing would have been a refusal to bash each other and an agreement to jointly tell the kids what's up and then leave them out of it.

no telling how much the younger boy is damaged by this.

We're grownups - we screw up we make mistakes and yes, kids should know it. They don't need to know our personal issues any more than they need to stand in the bedroom door and watch mom and dad have sex.

And there is such a thing as age appropriate information.

If your ex is a lout the kids are not going to be fooled. If the ex was lousy to you and is good to his/her kids then leave that alone - not feeling 'allowed' to love a parent has to mess a kid up. My fiance doesn't discuss her thoughts on XW in front of my daughter and vice versa. it isn't like we all go out to dinner or hang out but if you asked my daughter she'd say mom and dad are friends and they share and they both love her.

There is no winner in affairs, divorce and other adult matters that hurt families. Limiting how much the kids lose is the most important thing and sometimes that means biting your lip.

Again - if you tell a toddler that mom or dad cheated and hurt you, do you tell them every hurtful thing you ever did? Even if the affair results in divorce, anyone who's been here for a while knows full well that the things that led to the affair were a big part in what ended the marriage. Affairs rarely end the marriage on their own - look around.

The question of how much and what to tell the kids comes up time and time again and the answer is never easy...it simply is what you think is best. If you have the kind of relationship with your kids that you protect them from adult topics, then telling them too much of the hurt fromt he R will be too much for them. If you are very forthcoming with facts and opinions, then if you don't tell them anything, they will be bothered by that.

After D-day WH and I went through a rough couple of days. I knew the kids wanted to know what was going on, this was their life too, and when mom and dad couldn't give them as much attention or were sadder than normal or angrier, they deserved to know it wasn't them. We sat down with our then 5 and 9 year old and told them mom and dad haven't been getting along lately. We are trying to get better. Dad explained that he had gone out with another woman and that was wrong and that he had hurt mommy. They asked questions...are we getting a Dv? We said we didn't want to and that we were trying hard to get along and that we didn't think it would come to that. They wanted to know if dad was still seeing the other woman, he said no.

Then a few months later dad moved out because he couldn't get her out of his mind and renewed contact. I sat down with each kid separately and told them dad was going to move out for awhile, that I wanted to work things out, but needed him to move out so we both could think. We were hoping we would miss each other.

During the weeks or months later if I was crying or was particularly sad (so much so that they noticed) I would tell them that I missed dad.

There was NO BASHING of the other person. I have never condoned that behavior. But there was truth. We could have said nothing...but I have always believed in answering my kids questions honestly. And when major events effect their lives, children have a right to know. If you don't tell them anything, they tend to make up their own stories...and will often blame themselves.

There is no right or wrong answer here, this is what I do.

There is a fine line between lying vs. entangling our children. I believe I err more on the side of lying, but some would disagree...

I agree that adultery was not the root cause - my H was suffering from depression, precipitated by the murder of a family member and aggravated by losses due to our oldest going to college, financial issues, and the loss of his career dream. And yes, I explained that to my children, obviously using smaller words with the younger ones.

If you had read my post carefully, you would have noted that I regreted NOT telling my six year old about the affair - I did not, in fact, tell her. I found your post a bit confusing, since you kept referring to telling a toddler - since a five or a six year old is far from a toddler, I wasn't sure what age you were talking about. Obviously you can't tell a toddler who is only speaking in single words much of anything. As it turned out it was sort of a moot point - although my six year old did not know that he was seeing the OW before he left, he let her visit them in the OW's house a couple of months after he left, during which she saw that he and the OW were sharing a bed. At the time we were obviously still married, and of course our daughter knew it. I would be an irresponsible parent if I had not mentioned that sharing a bed with someone of the opposite sex when you are married to someone else is wrong - for that matter it is illegal in our state.


I hope that my H feels free to tell my children anything he wanted to about whatever faults I have, and he has, on more than one occasion. I might not agree with his assessment, but I would defend his right to say whatever he believed. And I have the right to refute what he says if I believe it to be wrong - and vice versa.

My children also laugh, have friends, and have high grade point averages, but I don't take all the credit for it by claiming that it is a result of my parenting style, as you seem to.

My H and I had spent 18 years teaching our children the importance of responsibility. You feed your pets before you feed yourself. You don't go back on a promise even if you did not actually use the words, "I promise." You don't back out of a contract, any contract, just because you are "unhappy." Our kids have/are growing up into the kind of people who don't miss work unless they are sick, who give their bosses twice as much notice as is required when they leave a job, and who almost never even miss their college classes. Although I don't presume to take all the credit for this either, I would like to think that the way we raised them had at least a little to do with the responsible adults they have/are becoming.

My H has only come to a couple of functions that my children have been at, because the OW does not allow him to attend. However, the children have no fear that we will argue - we get along very well 99% of the time, actually - so well that our counselor dismissed us after a half dozen sessions and said she was sure we could work out any disagreements ourselves. My H had proposed meeting for lunch to hammer out a separation agreement, and I had agreed - unfortunately, the OW apparently did not, and it ended up costing both of us a lot more money having the lawyers do it.

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

It is tragic that WS do not think with their heads when it comes to their own children. Parents are supposed to protect their children from any form of harm, and that includes the pain of losing a normal family. But the title of parents is too big an honor for some people.
What has to be important is to protect the children from any negative feelings and try to explain that the other parent is a little sick and needs to be away for some time (any other form of white lie will do).

Why protect kids from any negative feelings?

If a kid has a rotten teacher in school who yells at the class all day, are you going to march down to school and switch your child to another class? Or are you going to teach them to deal with the difficult teacher, and work out ways to help them (and if that includes going tdown to school, then it's your kid's idea).

If a friend says mean and angry words to your child are you going to forbid them from seeing that friend and tell them the friend must be sick to say those things? Or are you going to talk with your child about what to say or do about the friend, which could include losing the friendship, inviting them over to hash it out, ignoring it happened, etc...

It's the "negative" feelings in this life that we learn from. It's the "negative" feelings we try so hard to hide from. It's the "negative" feelings people will drink or drug their way from. What's so bad about feeling these "negative" feelings? A kid can't handle it? Do you remember how adaptable and resilient you were as a kid? It's the adults I'm worried about.

It's not by telling your kids the truth that harms them...it's by the actions that are taking place. It's not by telling your kids of the A that will harm them, it's the A itself. You want to protect them from that...that's Ok with me, but not my first instinct. When will a kid be old enough to handle the truth? (OK, are we ever?)