I kinda yelled at him a bit on his thread for being all sweet and snuggly about it.

Question - I get that you can't just drop the nursing home gig but can he replace that with another position elsewhere if he tries???

She is going to be a continuing problem and when you two are having a tough week we don't need her patting him and saying 'poor baby'.

It makes me kinda nuts that he says she is cunning and he is weak - he'll do so much better when he gets pissed off and says "Hey, I built a marriage, am raising 3 fine sons, run my own clinic where ten people work and dammit nobody is going to F--- with that!"

He's GOTTA be tougher than that or you would not have married him

he sounds good though - still a little confused and having a tough time with it but he's not stupid and he'll get it.

YOU on the other hand are a freakin chunk of granite. WOW is he fortunate that you are strong enough to deal with this and haven't killed him yet. GOOD FOR YOU!

If he needs an example of how to be tough and keep his head up - well, he has you.

Way to go Mom, he is 1000% better than a week ago and I have a feeling he's smart enough to realize pretty soon that she is no friend - she's attacking his wife and his children, friends don't do that.

Keep being tough, with your help he'll get it.

Mom, I hope you take special care of you.

This extreme rollercoaster is horrible. Also be sure to thank dad for his openness and honesty.

It had to be hard for him to tell you what he did today. Thank him for that; it's very important that he continue to do so. Reward this behavior.

Talk to SH about what happened today so that you have a plan that you both agree will work better.

Don't forget that he CAME HOME TO YOU tonight! That's a win!!

Hi mom,

I don't recall if this has been mentioned in any of yours or H's threads so far...

It seems to me that you have a perfect situation as far as you making your presense known at this nursing home. Nursing homes always need volunteers, don't they? You are the Dr.'s wife, and isn't this something that Dr.'s wives do quite frequently? Be on the board there and organize activities and other such things? Do you have any talents you could make use of there? Play piano/recreational/arts/crafts things/ even read to the patients?

This is one thing that saved my sanity when the OW still worked with my FWS--I showed up there, sent flowers to HIM, brought him lunch...things like that and right in HER face. I didn't let her erase me anymore and nipped her little fantasy right in the bud with MY presense. Turn the tables, mom, YOU exist in HIS life, for real.

Thank you ALL so much for you support! I did call H last night and explained to him I felt sick at the whole situation from yesterday. he made me feel much better. He told me that when he kissed her he felt nothing..I asked him if he was just saying that to make me feel better or if he really meant it...He said he really meant it. He admitted he made a HUGE mistake and he will just walk away next time. I see he is starting to get angry at OW, he said to me that "she is NOT going to run me out of this town" he said some other stuff too, but was the main things.

Question - I get that you can't just drop the nursing home gig but can he replace that with another position elsewhere if he tries???
I dont know...I will ask him about this...it is very competitive to have these nursing homes!!!

It makes me kinda nuts that he says she is cunning and he is weak - he'll do so much better when he gets pissed off and says "Hey, I built a marriage, am raising 3 fine sons, run my own clinic where ten people work and dammit nobody is going to F--- with that!"
That's the thing...He USED to be so strong and not let ANYONE run over him...he is falling into her trap and he has got to get a grip...it and think with his other head!!! I can see after yesterday he IS starting to get angry with her...especially after reading yours and the other posts on his thread. He hasn't seen your latest one yet, but he will and he will think even harder... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

YOU on the other hand are a freakin chunk of granite. WOW is he fortunate that you are strong enough to deal with this and haven't killed him yet. GOOD FOR YOU!

If he needs an example of how to be tough and keep his head up - well, he has you.

You really think...I dont know, sometimes I wonder...I wwasn't this strong 3 weeks ago, that's for sure. I have to be strong for US right now. I have my moments, but I am just so anxious to work on our marriage and have the best marrriage there is, but I have to wait for him to get thru these tough times. My tough times are over with, unfortunately HE didn't have the opportunity to support ME thru them. But I made it, somehow, wsomeway. I proved to myself and to him I AM a strong person.

Here is the thing that bothers me...I finally figured this out. Have you noticed in ALL of his posts, it is all about OW...He never mentions MY feelings. How it hurt me to tell me about the kiss, how he hurt me all this time, how I was here alone crying in the background. How sorry he was for putting me thru this crap in the first plac.e The only thing he can say or think about in his posts (and these are his true feelings) is how sorry he feels for OW, how he doesn't want to hurt OW, how if OW starts to cry he may fold...What about ME...No mention of his wife waiting in the background. It is like he reads ya'lls posts, thinks about it and then POOF, it is gone. When he starts typing again, OW just rolls out of his FOG induced brain and onto the screen.

Why is that...why cant he talk about ME. How sorry he is about this. I still do not think he is as sorry as he needs to be or feels as guilty. I have not addressd this to him yet...I just want to know why...and if All WS do this.

You guys are really getting into his brain and making him think. Thank you!

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Mom, I just read your recent posts. This is so hard isn't it? A few things came to mind. When My H resumed phone contact, which he told me about Sunday, he revealed what OW would say to him. She said, "I'm here for you if you need me." I reminded H that those are the exact words she used on him when he was telling her he didn't want the EA to progress to a PA because he knew it was wrong. These OWs are cunning little B's aren't they?

Whether it's good or bad, for the moment I don't want to read my H's posts. I don't want to hear him talk about the OW. Let him work that crap out with all of you. Plus right now I want to just write uninhibited also. Again, for the moment that is what's working for me.

My H showed so much more concern for the OWs feelings in the beginning. He's changing a bit in this regard. I think us BSs come off as strong woman, which we are. The OWs are weak and vulnerable. I think they cause the WHs to feel so strong. I've said before that the way the OW acted when I talked to her you'd have thought she was the one who had been "F"ed over for months. They are so pathetic. Hang in there! CV

Momto, CV55 and other BS' hanging tough during WS withdrawal:

Just had to take a minute and say it...You guys are awesome and so strong. It has to be so hard to be supportive when the WS' appear more concerned about the OP's feelings than yours. I don't think I could have handled that with the strength you guys have shown.

My H did not appear to go through withdrawal. Said from d-day on that he did not have any feelings one way or another for OW. So I did not have to deal with that. I did deal with continued lying and fighting recovery for about 7 months past d-day.

Now my H is thanking me over and over again for seeing the good in him, standing by his side, offering support and encouragement, being there, loving him, etc.

Your day like that will come too. You guys deserve it more than anyone!

I would not have been able to tolerate what you guys have put up with. H's [censored] would have been kicked out long ago.

Continue to be strong. My thoughts are with you guys.

Take care.

sss

Thanks SSS, but compared to your biography what I'm going through is nothing. Unfortunately my H is very addicted. Who knows how long I'll last if he caves? He is seeing a psychiatrist to maybe adjust meds this week. He has decided to go into IC, in conjunction with MC. In spite of all this we are very affectionate with one another. Go figure. If he was being cold, withdrawn, and generally a total goon to me I wouldn't have lasted this long. It's just hard to see your H grieve about another woman. But he is. What am I going to do about that? She became me over a 10 month span until the the A was outed. He's not going to get over that overnight. Do I hate it? Yes. Will I have to work on forgiveness if we make it to recovery? Yes. Will I be able to forgive? I hope so. Maybe then it will turn into my choice of whether I want to stay or go. Right now I'm not dealing with a clear thinking man.

I don't want to take over Mom's post. Sorry Mom. CV

Mom, where dad is in this process is still a bit in the fog and going through withdrawal.

Part of the recovery plan SH will coach your H through will include addressing "what about you, the BS throughout all of this"; your feelings, your pain etc.

This process is slow, and it's a good thing because it's so HEAVY. Patience, you and dad are doing better than most on this board. Some BSs never get to this point in recovery.

Commit to the full recovey process with SH because he doesn't miss a thing; and every concern you have will be addressed to both of your satisfaction.

Don't want to burst your bubble, but you're not done with the negative emotions of pain, fear, etc. But with your H's support and SH's coaching, you'll be given the tools to get through the recovery of the A; then you can focus on working on a better marriage than you had pre-A! CSue

laststraw, when you did those things (going to his work) had he decided to work on the M?

Mom, dad and all;

Go take a look on the recovery board. The thread is titled 2Oak - Always right on the money. It's tremendously insightful!

searching for the MB 2x4...

perhaps this is the part where you want to duck!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In recovery...especially in the early stages of recovery there is still lots and lots of reasons for you to step back from things...

in the big big big pictures this is not about you or the Other Person...real recovery is ALL about the WS dealing with and coming to terms about some of the things they did and did not do during an affair....

And things are not really any different than when the affair was in full blast..

meaning you can't change or control anyone else in all of this....

Here's my first twobyfour momof...

the title of this thread...help my husband is weak....
well actually your husband is rather strong...
very strong...
he is facing NOT the other person but really his own actions and feelings that were so wrong on one hand...
but yet were part of him...a part he was creating to fill pain....

People pointed out if you attempt to go the villification route of the OP...then you speak not very highly of the wayward spouse...

I am not saying you ARE doing this...I am saying that keeping quiet sometimes is better....

that he needs to figure things out on his own...

Have you noticed in ALL of his posts, it is all about OW...He never mentions MY feelings.

Look at what we WANT to do to wayward spouses...
and look at the corner we are at risk to backing them into...

we want to villify deny and destroy the feelings they have/had potentially for the OP....
on one hand ...and yet on the other we expect their feelings to be "good" for us...

the bigger picture is that their feelings for anyone right now aren't really that reliable in a sense that serves a good and positive purpose...

that a recently affair ended WS spouses words should be taken with out so much weight put on them...

because that's what we try to tell them...
oh you don't mean this or that about the OW...
but if that is true...
how can they mean this or that about the BS also...

which is not to say that don't feel bad...
your husband knows he has hurt people...I don't know that he is able to face that...and false facing of the pain he caused just to pacify you will be empty to you...and you will feel more pain...


I think WS feel very very bad...
in the affair and coming out the other side....

and I think they are in conflict and confusion...

I think I would be afraid of WS toting words of intense love and emotions...because I am not sure that in such a state of confusion that they are really in touch with the real meanings of those words...

I get chills when I read on other sites of OW being with their Married person...and complaining about them being on the phone with their spouse who is ending a phone conversation with their spouse with words I love you...or love you too. or whatever...

and who knows what those words mean from someone betraying so many people including themselves...I don't know what they mean...but I know they aren't worth a thing.....

OBVIOULSY the Married Person is so far removed from the real meaning of the word love...
and ironically the other person...never sees that...they just see...can you believe they said that in my presence....


Why is that...why cant he talk about ME. How sorry he is about this. I still do not think he is as sorry as he needs to be or feels as guilty.

He's still going through discovery of how sorry he is or even isn't...
He's has no time or space to remove himself from the actions his pain has caused to many many people...there is no escape for him....

He is under constant scrutiny and judgement...and yep he certainly played a huge huge role in getting here...

but there's nothing you can do to control or change this....

and placing expectations is your wrong doing..you can't set him up....to fail...you can't qualify this early in the game

you can't expect remorse from someone who used rationalization and justification every single moment of their waking life and probably dream world....to just have a light bulb moment...and make this better....

their own brain re-wired itself a bit to be able to keep from imploding....

they had to villify you and the family
they had to give all this energy and emotion into creating the other person into some sort of fantasy thing....

they went pretty far down that road...and it takes a while to come home....

He's wrestling with a lot...
Wayward spouses are sad creatures....who really messed up with a lot of the good things this world offers...
a lot of life's gifts were skewed around to meet their needs....
and they did that...
and they know it...

yet they are accountable..
but you still can't control anyone or change anything but with in you...

step back momof..
see the bigger picture....

ARK

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Well thanks but I think the only true insight is 'what does a colon look like from the inside" after having my own head up my [censored] so long.

Mom - yes, he is still talking entirely about her and forgetting that it's a total slap to you. Annoying and disrespectful but normal.

If I had to guess where he's at right now he knows subconsciously that his is all soooo wrong and his brain hasn't quite caught up to his conscience yet.

yeah - you are being tough. It akes a lot of strength to show the objectivity you have shown and not sit in the corner and cry. He can also learn from you humility - you are being smart and thinking longterm for you family and not wasting time feeling embarassed (sure you feel it but you are acting on reason and not feeling - pretty damned smart).

Keep reminding him that you and the boys will pick his nursing home - I'm sure for 50 bucks to a nurse's aid you can ensure daily procotological exams and weekly bedpan changes... something he ought to consider :-)

When he fully gets his head around the enormity of what he did I'm worried he may crash as hard as I did. The resulting depression is VERY severe and hits in 3-6 months so watch for it. Helps that he's a doc - he knows when/why meds should be used and it hurts that he's a doc - knows everything and won't follow his own advice.

Next big thing will be when he's more interested in protecting your feelings than he is in protecting/defending OW or his image. He needs to grasp that she is attacking his sons and trying to ruin their lives and hurt you and THAT ought to piss him off.

How the boys holding up? Spending time doing things with them might do him and them lots of good.

Before I forget...I know I am so bad at acknowledging everyone's feedback...I dont know how to do all the little quote things. Last Straw...No I cant volunteer at this nursing home. He is only there 2 hours a week at most. He does not own this nursing home, he only does the rounds. Picture a DR doing rounds in the hospital, that is what he does. And I would not put myself in that position...NEVER would I take orders from the person who tried to destroy my family. thanks for the suggestion thogh.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
[Q] searching for the MB 2x4...

perhaps this is the part where you want to duck!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In recovery...especially in the early stages of recovery there is still lots and lots of reasons for you to step back from things...[/Q]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, I need to learn to keep my mouth shut <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">in the big big big pictures this is not about you or the Other Person...real recovery is ALL about the WS dealing with and coming to terms about some of the things they did and did not do during an affair....[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then why is he so darn worried about huring her feelings, and why does he talk about her all the time in his threads...she started to cry yesterday and he kissed her! HELLO!!!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the title of this thread...help my husband is weak....[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">actually, I JUST changed the title today. It was called...help my H is seeing OW today!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well actually your husband is rather strong...
very strong...[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he is a very strong person...it took a strong person to first come forward with this and second to end it and now to face me everyday and tell me the truth. I think he is doing remarkably well...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you noticed in ALL of his posts, it is all about OW...He never mentions MY feelings.

Look at what we WANT to do to wayward spouses...
and look at the corner we are at risk to backing them into...

we want to villify deny and destroy the feelings they have/had potentially for the OP....
on one hand ...and yet on the other we expect their feelings to be "good" for us...[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well this is true and not true. It hurts to see him talk about OW in all of his posts, and I dont want to discourage that he do that, but he never mentions me in any of them. It is always "I dont want to hurt her"...and I know Ark, It is not about the OP, but in a sense it is. she is manipulating him. Sure she is hurting, who wouldn't be. I understand that right now he needs to take his time and figure it out in his head. He needs to clear his emotions and get her out of his system so to speak.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because that's what we try to tell them...
oh you don't mean this or that about the OW...
but if that is true...
how can they mean this or that about the BS also...[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very true. how can he say he Loves me and really mean it at this point. Yes, it makes me feel good, but I do know in my heart he is only saying it to make me feel good. He did send me a text message today that said "love you"! But again, how do I take that...is it his TRUE feelings or is he doing it to make ME feel better...or is he lifting out of the fog. who knows???


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I would be afraid of WS toting words of intense love and emotions...because I am not sure that in such a state of confusion that they are really in touch with the real meanings of those words...[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">they aren't...they are still in fogland when they end the affair. he is still so incredibly confused right now. All's he would have to do is pick up the phone and say meet me. Or take the drink and it is all over with. Then he would have to face me once again and who knows what would happen. I know he is confused. I see it. I am trying...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OBVIOULSY the Married Person is so far removed from the real meaning of the word love...
and ironically the other person...[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">of course they are...I cant tell you how many times my FWH told me he thought he loved the OP. He actually told her himself that he loved her. He now says that he was just saying it to lure her in deeper. He KNOWS it was all a fantasy world. THIS is reality.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is under constant scrutiny and judgement[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont want him to feel that way. I am certainly NOT scrutinizing him nor am I judging him in any way. Yes, what he did was wrong...what he did hurt many people, including himself AND the OP...but when you play with Fire you sometimes get burned.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can't expect remorse from someone who used rationalization and justification every single moment of their waking life and probably dream world....
they had to villify you and the family
they had to give all this energy and emotion into creating the other person into some sort of fantasy thing....[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cant believe the depths he went thru to lie, and fill this fantasy. The things he did. The things he said..he honestly believed himself and may STILL believe some of those things. I know he wants so badly to just go back to the FANTASY life he got used to. no kids, no wife, no pets to take care of. Nothing...sex anytime he wants it. That's all. The OP filling his every wish. Yup, that is fantasy....THIS is reality.

ARK [/QB][/QUOTE]

Is there anyway you can bump that 2Oak thread to the top for me?

Mom...remorse and feelings of empathy for you will come. Right now he can;t accept and deal totally with all he's done..he has to do it in "bite" size pieces...otherwise he'd drown in the guilt.

My H agreed to NC right away..broke it a couple of times in first few days after dday...then did a permanent NC. Even though we'd all 4 (me, my h, OW and her H) had agreed face to face on NC...after reading MB I wanted him to write a NC letter...he procrastinated like crazy...finally day before Thanksgiving he wrote it...I waited all day...he didn't give it to her...then on Thanksgiving morning I freaked out. Asked him why he hadn't given it to her. He said because her parents and family were there and he didn't want to ruin their holiday!!!

I came unglued...I said what about me...what about our kids...is it ok to ruin ours??? I cried hysterically...ended up as a puddle on floor...he sent letter over right away with our daughter.

He later told me that he didn't do it for to protect her feelings but that he was embarrassed to give it to her on Thanksgiving and he was afraid there might be a scene. Hmmm...fogbound brains are crazy.

Anyway...he's making the right steps now...but they are steps.

If you haven't read Torn Asunder by Dave Carder I would highly recommend it. It does a great job of describing steps a WS and BS go through.

Hang in there...I know it hurts...be prepared when he does get to guilt and empathy stage for him to be overwhelmed and to fall apart..he will then need you more then ever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by forevertogether:
<strong>
Hang in there...I know it hurts...be prepared when he does get to guilt and empathy stage for him to be overwhelmed and to fall apart..he will then need you more then ever. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What happens at this stage? Is is anything like what BS's go thru when they first find out. They non stop hysterical crying..no eating...no sleeping...What can I expect? How will I know? What will he do? Is is remorse for ME or OW?

hey MT3 - we can hang out together and wait!

Mine had to shut down his p/t business because she was his employer - TOUGH (arn't I mean...)

He still has 2 other jobs - he is a workaholic.

But I have many of the same complaints you have.

Lets move to the next stage already - right?

I think it was 2OK that had a thread about when they get to the guilt part (finally) and start beating themselves up. I am waiting....

At least yours is on the site and sharing feelings (even if they are hurtful) mine just says nothing and when asked - says he will talk when he is ready!

can we use that 2x4 on them?! (NO - I know this)

Guilt for what they did to you, themselves and their family. Not OW..that for my H was a brief fleeting feeling only.

She pursued him so he didn't feel much guilt. What little he felt turned into anger pretty quickly.

Once he lets himself acknowledge the depths of the anguish he bestowed upon you and his kids...it will be an awful site to witness.

My H felt guilty during affair but hid behind demonizing me...once he was coming out of fog and couldn't see me as bad guy anymore but person who loved him more then anyone in world it started to slowly increase.

Then bang one day it overwhelmed him...he cried like a baby, he apologized over and over, he couldn't look at himself in mirror, he got diarreah, vomited, went into a depression. It lasted about 3 days then he started dealing with it (with help of me and IC) and getting stronger again. IC and I kept telling him that he was a good man who made a horrible mistake...the mistake didn't wipe away teh good man that he was and didn't define him...how he wasn handling the mistake showed his true character.

He slowly started feeling good about himself again but he still has his days...

I help him with his bad days and he helps me with mine...we are a team now. We meet things head on we no longer avoid!

Go out and buy Torn Asunder if you don't have it.

Stay strong!

rough road,

Initially, when I discovered her inappropriate e-mails to my H, they both denied for about four months until the day my H broke down one night and told me it was a PA. He is a conflict-avoider (even in his A relationship) and had pretty much broken it off with her already when I found the e-mails of her "wanting more" and asking him if there was "someone else." Since he never addressed her about his -going dark- with her, she was in hot persuit of him, still. It was during this time (pre his confession) that I was making myself known at that office. After I finally heard the truth from him, I continued to do so. His was not a love-A persay, he knew she would "do it" is what he said about why he persued her to begin with and flirt with her. She, on the other hand, became emotionally attached. He thought/considered leaving me at that time in our M, but not *for her. He didn't really want to leave though, and he also didn't have the skills to resolve the conflicts within our M so he opted for some sexual relief/shoulder to boo-hoo on, with another woman.

mom, I think as the days go by and he is face to face with the emotional torture and devastation he inflicted upon you & YOUR well-being, that his remorse will kick in. You've got your own pain to work through and it will come out in many ways over the days to come and he will see your experience/s due directly to his betrayal and it will hit home. You will grieve and just like if you were grieving over the death of a loved one, he will share in this experience with you and it will probably make him extremely uncomfortable knowing it was him who caused the tears and the pain. It's good for him to see this, I believe, and is part of what will protect you guys from a reoccurrance of betrayal.

He KISSED her when she started to cry yesterday? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Sorry to be harsh but many of us saw this coming.

You H is vulnerable to any contact with the OW. Many here have suggested that he find a way to get rid of this particular job but have been given excuses (financial ones) of why he must continue at this nursing home.

I read that your H has a lot of irons in the fire. He has a clinic and is the director of a few nursing homes including where the OW works. He also pulls ER duty. This is a lot for anyone to do let alone someone trying to keep a family together that has been slashed with infidelity!

I know, I read all of the reasons that he MUST continue. I am just shaking my head at the importance put on financial issues and other people's well being when your marriage is clearly at stake.

I know that these ideas are drastic and would require sacrifice but I am concerned about the future of your 3 little boys. They need and deserve the best chance of growing uop with their Daddy. I hope he reads this and considers the consequences...