MB buddies, just to let you know I have been encouraging my H to talk to all of you. I am his best friend. In fact I told him that today, questioning whether OW actually was able to fill THAT role. I'm not sure, but I doubt it. Because I'm his best friend I am his major support. I am OK doing that most of the time, but I told him I'd like him to talk to all of you to spread it around.

I said if he wants to talk about his LOVE feelings for OW with you MBers, go for it. I really don't give a SH&&. I'd rather have my MB friends hear that crap, rather than me. He said he wouldn't talk about that. I told him he should be honest and talk about whatever he needs to talk about. Honesty is the only way he and hopefully we can heal. So he started a new post today. Just to let you know, he isn't talking to me about love feelings for OW. I just told him if he needed to vent about them, do it here.

Concerning myself and where I'm at...I'm not sure. I see a difference in him since he has maintained NC, if he has. I know he is struggling with giving up those stage one feelings. I HATE the fact that he experienced the romantic stage again with someone else. Even though I know that stage doesn't last forever, it really bothers me that he had that with OW. Had sex with her in that stage. He actually said something today about having to give up that passion, for other things like stability in our family, etc. The thing is I don't want to be 2nd best for the rest of my life. If that is what this recovery is about, F it! I read what some of the FWS's say on here and it is soooo discouraging. Even though years have gone by they still pine away for the OP. Yuck! I do not want that in my life.

I guess that I feel this poison that entered our M will never go away. Even if we recover, it will always be there. Wonder if he always has this loving soft spot for the little "B". That ain't gonna work for me.

Today H thanked me for being the way I've been and not kicking him out. I said, "I thought maybe you were actually disappointed that I've acted the way I have." He admitted in the beginning maybe he was disappointed because the decision would have been made for him, and he'd be with OW. H says now he realizes if I did that he'd be alone, or with her, but it probably wouldn't work out long term. OK, that sounds less foggy, so why am I glum? Because right now he is faking it until he hopefully makes it with me. But wonder if he never does? Wonder if we never can get a deep love back. A love that he recognizes is better than what he had with the little twit.

I'm feeling discouraged. Does any of this make sense to you folks, or is this just BS babbling? Let me know what you think. I'd appreciate any insight. As always, many thanks! CV

CV -

When he comes out of the fog, he will be able to let you know you were never second best.

Have patience. It is a process.

SS

CV have you seen the movie What about Bob. Baby steps for now CV I'm praying for you and your H. I want to see other people come out from this he!! and have a happy ending so I can believe that there is hope for me.

Hey there CV55,

I'm glad you told your H to vent about OW to us in order to give you a break from it. I hope the two of you can continue to be open with each other about your feelings involving everything else, it's just that I know you can't stand hearing about her right now.

D-day is still recent for you two. Only time will tell if your H will continue to harbor feelings for OW. The amount of time you're willing to wait to find out is up to you (and is an individual decision for anyone).

But if you hang in there as long as you can, and both of you keep working on your M, at least you will have the knowledge that you tried your best, no matter what happens. If you give up without giving it your all, you might some day regret it and wonder if you could have done more.

As far as your saying, "he is faking it until he hopefully makes it with me, and what if he never does?" -- again, give it time. It's been said on MB before that love isn't always a feeling, more often it's a verb. It's something we have to DO, even when we might not "feel" the way we think we're "supposed" to.

If "faking" it means your H is doing things to help you and working on the M, then those are loving actions, even if the emotions aren't all smushy and gushy. That goes both ways. You can do loving things for him even when you don't feel like you love him.

That's love, in my estimation. I've heard a lot of testimonies (some here on MB) that after a person began acting out love, the feelings began to return.

Keep on hanging on. God bless.

Rose55

Thanks all!

SS, I hope you're right. I hope that if we make it my H will be able to one day see her as the manipulative "B" that she is. THAT would be the best outcome for me. When he broke NC and was talking to her, she was badmouthing him at a beauty salon. He doesn't even see that.

Tinman, thank you for praying for us. I have come to really appreciate prayer. I love "What About Bob." Although I am really sick of baby steps. I am trying to let go of the outcome and realize whatever happens I will be OK. So will you. The fact that you are here proves what a wonderful man you are. Remember the line at the end of "The Wizard of OZ." The part where the tinman gets his heart. I actually said this about my dad after he died. It went something like this. "A heart doesn't have to do with how much you love, but how much you are loved by others."

Rose, this is my problem lately with giving it my all. When I allow myself to feel love for my H I feel vulnerable. I am opening my heart to him, and I don't want to have the knife plunged in and twisted once again. I have been too hurt by this man. So that is my dilemma. Until he can break free from the "B", if he can, I have to guard my heart. Thanks for being there for me and H. CV

I don't think there are many folks on the board right now. Could it be that some of you actually have a life that doesn't revolve around the A? I have the need to write and vent. Even if it's just to myself.

I believe H has kept to NC so far. Ow hasn't contacted him. Could be she has moved on. He was the one calling her when NC was broken. We went out to lunch together. We were going to walk, it's a beautiful day, but he is so tired from no sleep we just came home.

When we were sitting in the restaurant he asked me what I wanted to do after lunch and I began to laugh hysterically. I'm not even sure why. Was I thinking, "What I want to do is dump you?" or "What I want to do is go on a great vacation without you." or "Life sucks so bad because of you I have no idea what I want to do." Truthfully I don't know what was so funny. He just was looking at me asking me to share, and I kept on laughing. I think I am ready for the looney bin.

Then my brother, SIL, and nephew walk into the restaurant. B and SIL just got back from vacation to Mexico. After my dad died I wanted to go on a vacation during spring break. H never acted interested. I brought it up recently asking if it was because of the A. He said yes, and he didn't want to go anywhere with me then. Great! We could have been on vacation if it weren't for his stupidity. As we are gabbing away with my family I have these other thoughts going on in my head. My family has no idea what H did. They would be mortified to know he had an A, what he did with the "B", and how long it went on. I'm looking at H wondering how can he live with himself? Talking to these people he's known for 26 yrs., who have been his family for 19 yrs. What would that feel like?

Today I feel really angry about his A. I feel like he ruined our lives. At least he ruined our M. I don't know how we can recover from this. Today is one of those days I just look at him and all I can see is the damage he caused. Damage to me, to him, and to our boys. For what? He allowed himself to fall in love with this person who didn't give his children a second thought. Right now I don't care about the stupid fog. I am angry about what he did. I am angry that he was having regular sex with another woman.

A part of me wants him to go live out this fantasy and suffer the consequences of his actions. Actions that he obviously didn't think about.

I don't know what else to say. Right now I feel like there is a poison that will permanently be in our M. Can that poison ever be extracted? Do I want to stick around to find out? Sorry for my negativity. It's better to tell all of you than him right now, right?

CV -

I've been where you are. I promise you there is light at the end of the tunnel. I reached a point where I did not think recovery was possible. I wanted to just bob my H in the back of the head and say "you stupid jack@ss, what were you thinking" and then put my girls in the car and leave.

It gets better. I promise. No one can make you stay. That's your decision. Maybe if you focus on that. Remember YOU are the reason you are still in this relationship. He messed up but you decided to stay.

You are very wise and have always given me good advice even when I didn't want to hear it. Hang in there.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Heroswife, I don't know about the wise part, but thanks! It was my decision to stay. You're right, we are only here because of me. Although when it came down to the wire H did fire OW. Today is just one of those days that I'm asking myself, "OK, why did I stay?"

I'm not going to kick his butt to the curb today. I'm just imagining it. This is hopefully something us WSs just go through. Sounds like you did. I'm not sure what it's going to take from H to cause me to feel glad I stayed. Maybe when I know he is further down the withdrawal path, if that happens, I will feel better. Also, if in my heart I know he is here because of me. Not because of the boys, not because the stats that say As don't usually work and he's afraid to move on with OW, not because he knows I'll out him and his reputation will be ruined. But deep in his gut he knows he stayed because he didn't want to lose ME! We'll see. Right now I'm not sure that can happen while he is still living here. I wonder if the only way he will ever know that is to be without me. Just a thought. Thanks! CV

I feel like I'm posting to myself, no offense intended. MBers jump in any time. I'm not the one to be giving me advice right now. I'm a bit lost.

I believe I mentioned in somebody else's post that I LBed severely last night. All the pain of the A that I have been containing until his withdrawal settles down came out. H listened and told me it was OK to vent. Well, this morning I walked into our guest room and he was really crying. We talked for a very long time. He told me everything I said to him made him feel so bad that he wanted to call OW and be with her. My Lbing really set him back.

He is very afraid that if he chooses to stay in our M, and we can't recover, he will lose OW. Yet, if he gives our M up, (and all of you, the shrinks, the stats are right), he will regret leaving the M. He is torn up inside. And of course a part of me wonders at his question, which is, "Wonder if everyone is wrong? Wonder if H can have a happier life with OW?" Am I just deluding myself that H and I can really love each other again?

He is so frustrated because he can't say he wants the M, even though he's following all the steps. I told him when he broke NC he put us both back, especially him. I reminded him it's only been a week of NC and he's grieving. He needs to give it and us time. MBers, am I fooling myself?

The funny thing is, even though he is supposedly mourning his love for OW, which he tried keeping from me, I do see some positives. We talk to one another. We hold each other all night. We must be attracted to one another because we are having sex. I'm sure it's not like it was with the "B", but we are experiencing that. He called me before and I said I don't know if I should tell you this, but I love you. He told me he loves me too. I've held off from telling him that.

What do you all think? Is there hope for us? Can he really get over this fantasy without actually seeing if it can or can't withstand the real world. I have to say I think once he would leave that would be it for us. Since he isn't in contact with her now, unless he's talking to her now, I have no reason to kick him out. Should I jus try like HE$$ to avoid the LBs.

Please tell me what you all think. Thanks! CV

I think there is hope. The fact that he is taking steps is a reassuring one. I'd give just about anything for my WaywardWife to begin posting here again... (she was even a Mod here for a while, if you can believe that)

Anyway, while it's great that he's working on things, it would be far better if he were to make a leap of faith towards recovering your marriage. That's what I did, 4 yrs ago after disclosing my affair. I gave myself over, wholeheartedly to being the kind of man my wife deserved and learned so many valuable lessons.

My hope is that the efforts he's putting in now will gather steam as they progress. Like a snowball rolling down a hill, his love will grow bigger and bigger as things progress.

dewt

Hey, i'm somebody who doesn't have much of a life, so here I am, posting.

Which board is your husband posting on? What's his board name? I'll mosey on over there.

Meanwhile, yes, I know this affair thing suc** big time, and I know how much it hurts to have the one who promised he loved you, who took vows with you, tell of his love for another woman. If you can't stand listening to him talk about her, by all means, send him elsewhere to debrief his feelings.

Now, from a positive POV, you ARE dealing with a betrayer in withdrawal. That is GOOD.

They can't go through withdrawal until they break contact. And they can't rebuild until they come clean and reconnect with you. It will take time, but

1. He admits the affair
2. He is having no contact

The fog will lift - the light will burn it off.

Hi Bellevue! We can only hope the fog will lift. H's name is "on the edge". For some reason no one answered his last post. It's on page 2.

Just to let you know we aren't reading each other's posts. It's a freedom for both of us. So feel free to mosey. CV

CV -

I know it's hard but try to focus on the positive. Your H...for whatever reason...has picked you and your M over the A. Try to imagine how you would be acting now if he hadn't. I had to remind myself of that during the times that I wanted to LB. Trust me I LB'ed enough to last me a life time. I was ruthless at times.

You want to make sure your H knows you can get over this and that you will not hold it over his head for the rest of your lives. I'm sure part of him thinks that you will never forgive him so why should he try.

Make that point very clear to him. You can forgive and your M can become better then any fantasy he has ever imagined.

You have your children together. The OW will never be able to give him those kids...you already have.

Another point to make would be your history together. You have history. By that I mean the time you have already invested in your relationship.

Think positive. I know it's hard. You are a strong woman. You can do this.

Are you changing YOU during this time? Are you doing anything to better yourself? This is something you should do for you and not him. Don't think of this as you improving yourself for him....it's not for him. It's for you. Buy a bike, read a book, take up a hobby...volunteer at your church. Find something to do for you!

My thoughts are with you.

heroswife, thanks for the encouragement. Also dewt! I never acknowledged your encouragement the other night. It's appreciated.

Concerning forgiveness, sometimes I think I can do it, and other times when I look at what he did I am overwhelmed. That he treated me, his W, best friend, lover, mother of his kids, in such a despicable manner. Whoa, I can't imagine getting over it. When I LBed him Satruday he told me he was worried that I'd never get over it. Maybe I'll be able to imagine it when or if I feel he has really recommitted to our M. That he isn't internally waffling anymore.

I am not trying to make myself better for him. I feel like I am already better than what he deserves. However, I am at a point that I really need to start moving on with my life. I talked about it in yesterday's post. H and the A have set me back in many areas of my life. I feel like I need to reclaim what I lost. I hope i can start doing that.

I am so glad you are on the road to recovery. It is nice to see success on this site. CV

I know where you are coming from. I spent the majority of Plan A wondering if I could ever truly forgive.

I would think of all the things my H could do to help me and think if he did that I would be about to forgive him.

It didn't matter. I was not ready to forgive. When things were at their worst my H stepped up and that allowed me to forgive him.


I do forgive him. That stuns me now. I remeber thinking at times that he was right...I would never be able to get over this. But I did. You will too.

The time will have to be right. You have to give your H time and you have to give yourself time too.

Don't forget about CV in all of this. Look to God for guidance. He's there for you.

heroswife, I think I'll be able to forgive him when he turns the corner. If he does.

He just called me. He told me he's horrible. Has total anxiety. I asked him if he wants to call OW, and he said he thinks about it. He's not, he claims, because he knows it will only be a short term relief. I suggested he talk to Harley, which if we can arrange it he will. He is hesitant because he's going to a new IC, I'm in IC, and we are in MC. I told him this is a lot cheaper than Ding.

I am tired of his gloom. I hope if he sticks with NC it will start to lift. A big problem is that the "B" worked for him and made his life so much easier at work. I don't think this is all about his great love for her. Now his business is not flowing easily and he is stressed all the time. A situation that he of course created. How fun for me.

For now I'll keep on hanging on. I do pray a lot. It can only be God that is helping me stick in here. CV

CV -

Do you think that his relationship with OW might have made her appear to be more helpful at work then she actually was?

I'm not sure what type of business he was in or what the job requirements are to replace her but I'd be willing to bet that she can be replaced with someone better equiped to focus on the actually job duties and not focusing on her own selfish needs so much. (Not blaming the B for everything here I'm a BS myself so my thoughts are swayed in your favor.)

I'm sure your H will see that after the fog is lifted.

Doesn't it make you sick to think that talking to OW will provide some relief...even if it's only temporary relief! PUKE!!!

I wanted my H to hate OW every minute of every day. It wasn't fair to me that he still respected her. (I need someone to hold my hair back while I vomit please!)

I honestly see where you are coming from. Hang in there and her true colors will be revealed. He will see that he has made the right decision and he'll thank you for fighting for your marriage.

hw, just got off the phone with H. I feel like I'm running an addiction hotline. He said he felt like there is something wrong with him and he wanted so badly to call OW. I literally had to talk him down.

Some good things came out of the conversation. He did call me, not her. Lucky me! We talked about how he was more vulnerable than OW when the A happened. I'm not letting him off the hook, but it's true. He asked me to explain, and when I did he got it. Maybe he only got it for a second, but he got it. I said she was having problems in her M, but you had deaths, sickness, and a wife who was stretched to the max. If she was an honorable person she wouldn't have moved in on you. He admitted at times he was equally motivated, but it was more her. Yehhhhhh, he actually could recognize that. I also said she didn't give a SH** about me or your boys. He said, "She wouldn't allow herself to think about them." My reply: "Case in point." He was open to really looking at what their life would be like, vs his life with me, which has been pretty darn solid over the years. He actually said he can't really picture himself with someone 20 yrs. younger.
I told him this relationship feels like an addiction. Is that what he wants?

He said yesterday he had a glimpse of what we had. At the same time he thought, "I don't want to lose my feelings for oW." At that I said "You ain't gonna have stage one with me again. Hopefully we will have a deep, passionate love. You know stage one with her won't last forever. You want unconditional love, you're getting it with me, NOW."

I asked him to please talk to all of you. That you all are great and want to help him. I told him I wanted to Plan B him yesterday and you all talked me out of it. He was quite surprised. If we make it through this, this H of mine is going to owe me big time.

Concerning how wonderful the "B" was as H's office manager. I think she was good, but replaceable. He put her on a pedestal. Made her indispensable. He was very dependent and didn't realize it. Then of course when she was meeting his top needs, well that was the topper. For H, being at work where they spent 40 to 50 hrs. a week working and screwing, it's like an alcoholic going to a bar. I know it's tough.

I hope he writes on here tonight. CV

Cv-

I don't think you realize how good you are doing here. Sit back and think for a minute....your H called you. He called you. He didn't call her. He was in trouble and knew it and he called the one person in the world he knew could help him the most. His best friend. His life partner.

Do you know how much trust he must have in you to be able to take that step. Do you see the meaning behing that call. He trusts you above all else in this world.

Let me tell you it's not a weak woman that projects that kind of power. It takes a strong woman to show her H that she will stand beside him and not judge him for the wrongs he has done. You love this man and it's very obvious to everyone on this board and I'd go even further to say it's obvious to everyone you come in contact with on a daily basis.

Now...when you say he'll owe you big..that is very true. You'd be better off not to point that out to him. Trust me. The less you make him feel bad for this and the more supportive and forgiving you are the better off you'll be. Just seeing your willingness to forgive him and not make him pay for this forever will be enough for him to repay you 10x over.

If you point out to him that he'll owe you or tell him that he's not worthy of your love and forgiveness he'll be reluctant to try to make it up to you. But if you sit back and you welcome the "support line" phone calls you'll show him just how much you plan to put this all behind you.

You are the QUEEN of PLAN A right now. I'm giving you HUGE PROPS.

Your story has lifted my spirits today. Just knowing that there is someone out there like you makes me feel a lot better about this world.

heroswife, your last line truly touched me. Brought tears to my eyes. Maybe because I know I am a great person, and what a friggin shame that my H poisoned our lives with someone who, at least at this point in her existance, functions on such a lower level than I do. I am going to post on my other thread concerning what's happening with me today if you care to read it.

Whether I am doing a good Plan A or not, who knows? Maybe not so good today. I have said that one of the gifts I have acquired from H's A is finding all of you. It doesn't matter what are age differences are, whether we are the BSs or the WSs. It's about getting to know and being supported by incredible people. You are one of them. Thanks! CV