Believer,

Now what are we going to do about you? I would like to see you doing more fun things

That is still the problem. I am short of money. DS's grad and bday are both in May. I have to buy him a gift. He wants a new computer monitor. Some kids will be getting new cars as gifts. Mine's going to get a $350 flat-screen monitor as a combo-gift and that's more than I can afford. I don't have money to go to movies (and don't want to by myself--not really a movie person anyway). I allow myself $ for hair coloring and fingernails and that's quite a bit each month. Yes, I could quit both of those and have rec money but then I wouldn't feel pretty. I don't know what to do, really. I have missed 2 Al-Anon meetings now and will be missing a 3rd if I do what DD wants--take her to the Omaha zoo tomorrow. But I think outings with her are important, too.

So mainly I tinker around the house by myself. But there are so many things I really want to do here like replace the couch that is full of holes from the dogs before graduation, replace my chipped kitchen sink, etc, that I also have no $ to do. It gets depressing because I can only do so much with little $.

I do have $2000 put aside that I could spend, but am right now planning on spending it frivolously on a trip for kids and me to DisneyWorld in June. Sort of a last hurrah before college for DS.

Dewt,

Ugh...don't know when I'll ever get wheels. Sort of a pipe dream right now. Read $ problems above. There isn't $6000+ to spend right now on a Sportster. But it's something I think more and more that I would enjoy.

As for the pastor (the good one, not the bad one), he didn't advise me to "lie". He just advised me not to out-of-the-blue tell my H just to relieve my guilt. He felt since it was over, and since I was very sorry, it wasn't going to do anything productive or good by telling him. All it was going to do was hurt. If H ever asked, I knew I had to tell him.

The thing that makes me the sickest is that I wasn't even emotionally attracted to the person in that way. And I certainly didn't do it because it was something I desired to do with him. I was just so desparate for someone to care enough to talk to me and to want to help me through what I was going through, that I forced myself to do whatever I though it took. It was a very low point in my life. It's amazing what not being close enough to God, being lonely beyond belief, and smoking a little pot can do to mess someone up totally.

On the plus side, I am closer to God now (not because of that!), I recognize how dangerous it is to let a person of the opposite sex know I am lonely, and I don't smoke anymore.

For a long time I wanted to just blame the pastor. And in a way, I still do feel it was more his fault--he took advantage of a situation and apparently did it with more than just me. I heard rumors later that it was 2 or 3 women in our church and a summer missionary. But I was equally to blame. No matter how lonely or how desparate or how screwed up I may have been, "no" is a very short, easy to pronounce word. I should have used it and booted him out my door immediately.
------------------------------------------------
As of today, I don't know where I stand. There have been things that have come out of conversations over the weeks of stuff that happens while WH is at mutual person's house that I've tried to just overlook as sick, drunken stupidity out of all of them. But there are three that I'm having great problems with, and am almost feeling it would be better right now to just file D, get out of this whole ugly mess no matter how painful it would be, and just go on.

1) WH admits to having committed the reverse of what I did with pastor, to mutual person during a seriously drunken night some months ago because she was so drunk she didn't have much of a clue and her H wanted him to. Sick! Sick! And she knows I know because I brought it up a while back and she glossed over it awfully quickly. She is not at all attractive and I know my WH is not attracted to her. And he admitted feeing very sick afterwards, but yet it happened.

2) Mutual not-friend, in another drunken weekend, let one of the guys down there shave her??? That was admitted last night. Apparently my WH must of been one of many in the audience.

3) Mutual not-friend called last night while WH was bringing me home and asked when he was coming down, that they were all asking where he was. She said "Heather is here". She was talking loud enough I could here here. When he hung up, I asked what the deal was with Heather. She's a young friend of their son's who tends to get very drunk and I believe several of their son's friends have "had" her. So why does WH need to know she's there? I asked if he had ever done her or if he was planning on it. He got very angry and said "No!" and asked why I would even ask. I said, "Well, why wouldn't I think that?"

That's when he asked me the question about the pastor....

These people have sunk so low since I last used to hang with them. They used to just play cards with us and have a few beers. They were crass, and rather uncivilized which used to bother both WH and me, but they weren't swingers. It is the sickest situation I can imagine when I allow myself to think about it. And it's the only place WH feels comfortable because they're the only ones who don't pour on the heat about what he's doing with OW.

The only positive thing out of last night was when I was crying as he was leaving and I asked him why I'd ever think he should come back to me after what he now knows.

His response, "Why would I want to stay with her. She has no job. She has no car. Her kid is a heathen! And your house is relatively clean now. Her's isn't." This was before he opened his $300 cell phone bill that she caused.

I am sick, literally. My stomach is churning. I knew if the stuff from my past ever came out, it'd start me hating myself all over again. I ask myself why I even deserve to ask WH to quit what he's doing. Or how, if we ever do split up, I could possibly think a really good, Christian man would ever have a person with my past. My fears of being alone forever are very strong right now.

It's dreary, cold, and going to rain, so can't work outside. DD spent night with a friend and DS is still sleeping. Where is that hole? I'd like to crawl in it and cease to exist. But since I can't seem to find it, I guess I'd better figure out a way to get the grass-laden dog barf off my comforter now.

LL

None of you guys even really know me, but all I can imagine right now is that those of you who have offered me advice and felt bad for me in the past are now thinking I'm a w**re and not worth the advice you gave. I wish I could say I've only been with my H, but that would be untrue.

But I have only been with 4 men total in my 38-year life. One other when I was a teen, my H, the man I did have the A with 12 years ago (and admittedly thought I loved at that time), and the one admitted last night.

So much happened before I was really committed to God. The teenage stuff, obviously. I was a Christian by the time I had the A, but wasn't committed enough and hadn't grown to where I am now. I have made my biggest grown in Christ since 9/11/01. I am a different person. I still have the same struggles as I did back then. I still struggle with the need to be loved and accepted. I still struggle with dealing with loneliness. Being accepted and wanted and loved is something I crave.

It would be easy for me to want to go out and find someone right now who would care for me and ease the pain. But I know that it is wrong. I know the pain is not worth any momentary pleasure, no matter how justified some non-Christians might say I am. That is why I am steering so clear of the opposite sex at this moment that I rarely even talk small-talk to them (except for my IC and my current pastors--and they are in public settings), for fear that someone might think I'm up to something, or worse yet, for fear I might get sucked into something accidentally.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> None of you guys even really know me, but all I can imagine right now is that those of you who have offered me advice and felt bad for me in the past are now thinking I'm a w**re and not worth the advice you gave. I wish I could say I've only been with my H, but that would be untrue.

...... I am a different person. I still have the same struggles as I did back then. I still struggle with the need to be loved and accepted. I still struggle with dealing with loneliness. Being accepted and wanted and loved is something I crave.

It would be easy for me to want to go out and find someone right now who would care for me and ease the pain. But I know that it is wrong. I know the pain is not worth any momentary pleasure, no matter how justified some non-Christians might say I am. That is why I am steering so clear of the opposite sex at this moment that I rarely even talk small-talk to them (except for my IC and my current pastors--and they are in public settings), for fear that someone might think I'm up to something, or worse yet, for fear I might get sucked into something accidentally.

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL,

Not sure if the rain has dampened our support but I could not find in any of our responses where we think you are anything other than a BS in pain. Ok, you now know a bit about what a Ws goes through. Use that to your advantage.

Your feelings are understandable and if you are repentant (which you have already shown), then God and others can put it in the past. As for your H's current actions you can see can't you that his A actions cause hurt to the family. While not to down play your previous actions, your incidents did not lead to the same actions.

Now you can either muddle in sorrow and pity or make some lemonade out of the lemons that have been handed to you. You need lots of sugar, good water and ice, A few tablespoons of 'honey' maybe good too! You can even add to the twist and add some strawberries or lime. Now you can go figure out who and what these extra ingredients stand for . You already have the lemon, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L,.

<small>[ April 24, 2004, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Lordslady -

What are we going to do with you sweetie? I won't give you a count of my lovers, but there were considerably more than you have had. Before I became a follower of Jesus, I led a very sordid life- sex, drugs, and rock and roll. I rode with the Hell's Angels in the Bay Area. I married an HA guy and when I had my kids, I took both of them to the bar on the way home from the hospital to see my friends.

But that life is behind me now. I got Jesus now, and he has delivered me. He came to save the lost and hurt. That's us.

Somehow you have to realize that you are a good woman. You can have a good life. We just have to put our heads together and work it out.

<small>[ April 24, 2004, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: believer ]</small>

Believer,

I truly feel forgiven by God, through Jesus, and I know that's really all that matters. But I feel very bad about what I've done, and feel that people (mainly WH) will never view me in the same light ever again. I am tainted in his eyes, as well as my own.

I think the reason I have such a hard time with this incident is the who it was with, how it happened, and the whole sordid deal. The A 14 years ago was very wrong, but for some reason I've been able to accept that and move on and not let it eat at me. What was done was done, and I learned from it.

This incident I stuck in the back of my brain and tried my best to forget it ever happened. For the most part I was successful for years. I'm not even sure now what triggered it's coming out to mutual person that angry night.

I've done the sex, a few drugs, and a lot of rock and roll, too. My WH was the 'bad boy' of his school and I, little miss innocent, found him to be very exciting. Very little shocks me because of what I've been exposed to over the years. But I am NOT that kind of person anymore and I don't want to be. I'm just afraid WH will never see me as anything but dirty, I'm afraid my family could find out which will break their hearts, and I just wish I could take it all back.

And I think in his mind it will just give WH more justification for what he does with OW, and the atmosphere he hangs in at mutual person's house.

What this has all come to just makes me sick! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> The initial sickness of revealing it has now warn off and I'm just numb today.

LL

LL-

What you have to cling to is that you are a follower of Jesus. He came for the sick and broken-hearted. Your sins have been forgiven. You need to forgive yourself. I have many things that I am sorry for. I have tried to be a good person, but made many, many mistakes along the way. I even had an abortion, which was very much against my morals. That was 18 years ago, and I have regretted it ever since. I was trapped in a marriage with a H that beat me. I had a chance to get a job as a pipefitter, and decided to get rid of my child to save the other two.

So I have to tell you that you need to forgive yourself. Your H has identified a need - a clean house. So get busy with that. I am not into house cleaning. But what I do is spend 5 minutes a day in each room in my house cleaning. It is an easy way to do it.

Believer,

I don't know why I can so easily overlook what others have done but have such a tough time with myself. Hopefully after a little time this whole incident that came up will fade back into the darkness where it belongs.

House cleaning doesn't come easily for me either. I'd like to do just about anything BUT it. And it's really hard to be inspired today. It's raining and cold and dark and the only thing I've eaten besides my fingers which are chewed to pieces from nervousness today, is a bowl of strawberry shortcake that WH was supposed to have for dessert last night but didn't after the fiasco. I'm lacking energy big time.

But maybe I can get up from here, go find something else to eat, and then force myself to at least clean my bathroom.

Thanks for always being so positive and helping me feel better!!!

LL

LL-
Just spend 5 minutes in each room. It works, set the timer. My place has 7 rooms, so it takes 35 minutes.

Then pray tonight. Ask the Lord to forgive you. Then forgive yourself. You are too hard on YOU.

Dear LL,

Glad to hear you had some dessert but don't want you to chew your fingers! You will have a harder time posting if your fingers are gone - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

As for housework, well let's just say, my 2 here act like 8 and give me job security in the housecleaning dept. I wish the benefits would get better or I may need to go find another job - LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

It is vital to your recovery that you are able to focus on something other than the negative things in your life. So when you get a chance, right down the positive negative things that have happened in your life that has prompted changes. ex: marriage, child birth, job, etc. The can be big and small changes.

Need to get you balanced and focus. The A often sends the BS way out to left field. Need to bring you back to a point where you can have a clear view of where you are at and see a better future.

Up to the challenge?

L.

I am not sure if I am in the righ tplace or not, all I know is I was looking through this board and kind of got hooked on LL and the pain she is going through. Unfortunately I am the person who had the affair. I did it on Friday and told my husband about it yesterday and now I dont know what to do. Does anyone here have any suggestions?

Trixxie - Go to the bottom and hit post a new topic here in general questions. That way it is not so confusing.

By the way, welcome to marriagebuilders. We have a plan for you too. There are many here in your position and they will all pitch in and help you out. Let us know more of your situation.

If you were honest with your husband, that is a good start. Also did this start as an emotional affair, or was it a purely physical affair?

LL- Where are you today?

I'm still around...

After feeling rotten for half the weekend about everything, I loaded up DD and took her to Omaha yesterday.

Initially, WH was also going to go, but called that morning and said he was too cold, the weather was bad, and he was still at mutual person's house and would be too late by time he got to his place and showered and came to mine. Said he wasn't blowing me off. Whatever...

So about 2 hours later than initially intended (I could have gone to church after all!), DD and I headed out. She didn't really want to go the zoo, but wanted to meet an on-line pal who she's talked with for a couple years and shared photos with but never met in person.

Actually, once we got to Omaha, the weather was beautiful. Sunny and mid-60's and just right for zoo-looking. We spent three hours there, and then had to kill some time afterwards while she tried to track her penpal down, since he didn't know she was coming over. We decided to go to a mall that was close by. We're sitting there in food court and she says "There he is, mom!"

Somewhat a coincidince--he was there with friends, but she was too embarassed to go up and speak to him. So we sat and waited for them to leave, then killed some more time and finally she got the nerve to call his house. He was home by then and was very excited to hear she was in town.

She visited for an hour at his place before we came home. I don't like leaving my DD with people I don't know, but he's only a year older than she is and, well, I think she's pretty safe overall. He makes a fairly cute girl, if you get the drift. I don't agree with his lifestyle but it's him who is accountable for it, not me.

So, while WH and I didn't make any progress over the weekend, at least DD and I had a good bonding experience.

WH is getting very nervous about what he's going to do at the end of the week when he has to move out of apt. And frankly, I'm nervous, too. I can't imagine my life without him in it, but now I'm nervous the other way. What if he comes back and he's still the same person he is right now? He's changed from before this A started. He's very agressive now, and likes to start trouble, and he's really walked away from a Christian lifestyle entirely. I'm afraid I'd be taking back a guy who keeps secrets, stays out until he's ready to come home (always did), drinks, is into porn (always was), tries to pick fights, wants nothing to do with God and makes it clear to me and kids, and in general is just angry and miserable to live with.

Again, I'm thinking way ahead and am confusing myself because I DO want him back, just that I want back "old" H, not "new" WH. And no one is saying he's even thinking of ever coming back. I'm just afraid if he did, and I took him back and he was this way forever, I'd regret it, and I'd be forever locked in the marriage because if I once take him back, I think it negates the Biblical stipulation about divorce being permitted in the case of adultry.

I have noticed one thing while he's been gone: While I am very lonely and would hate to spend the rest of my life this way, the "chaos" that my WH used as one of his reasons for leaving seems to have gone with him. He seems to still have chaos that he can't get away from, but my house has actually been peaceful, with very little fighting since he left. Even the dogs seems less rambunctious. DS is fairly considerate and tries to keep me company, and now DD is being more reasonable, hasn't cut her arms in over a month, is taking her Zoloft without prodding, and is settling in nicely in school. Hmmmmm..... Maybe I wasn't the problem? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

LL

<small>[ April 26, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

On December 8th, 1980 John Lennon siad, "Where there is life, there is hope." It makes alot of sense. Of course, he was assasinated later that night.

Anyway, life goes on and you need to know that life will get better. It's up to you and the decisions you have made. 2004 could have been the worst year of my life. It certainly started off that way; but I made some important decisions and the future is brighter than ever! I have all sorts of great plans for my business, my personal life, etc. YOU WILL BE FINE, honey! Take an evaluation of your life and consider all that is possible and all that is NOT possible and look at the BIG PICTURE. Concentrate on the important things. Life will get better. Where there is life, there is hope.

LL -

Glad you had a nice visit to Omaha with your daughter. I had a good weekend too.

Yesterday I helped my neighbor clean her house all day. Sounds like a drag, but it was fun. Her 2 year old may have asthma and the doc said her house needed to be completely cleaned, dusted, and everything washed. After lots of sweating, laughing and talking, we finally got it done.

Then we settled back and had a beer and a carne asada barbecue. It was very pleasant.

I'm like you, WS shows no sign of coming back, but I don't want the new one back, I want the old one. But I think the old one may be gone forever, just a memory in my heart.

So hang in there and keep on the MB program the best you can. You will be glad later that you did everything possible.

Sorry I haven't been around, I don't touch the computer much on the weekends.

Yes, you are right, if you took him back now there would be little motivation to change...why would he have to?

He needs to live somewhere else with his chaos until he can decide and maintain N/C for a month (OK, maybe after 3 1/2 weeks). He has to walk the walk so to speak.

Yes, you want him, you are lonely, you are thinking about what life would be like without him. You are beginning to grieve the M and what you have lost all these years, and what you could have, but don't.

Please, please, please, don't take him back until REAL changes have happened. I was given advice to not allow H to move back until he had REALLY shown changes by his actions. I regret that I let him back before ALL the conditions were met, and it was a struggle to get the last few met (and still is, but we're working on it).

Read 3sacrowd's post on the recovery board if you want to hear a "I let him come home too soon" vent.

As far as mutual friend...what a betrayal. She has become the OW too. And why did you keep the pastor experience a secret? You were ashamed? You felt you were at fault? It sounds like you were victimized...OK, OK, you can share some of the blame, but he took advantage of you and preyed on you... This hits very close to home, I share a similar experience. I found relief when I stopped treating it like a dirty secret and began sharing it. Have you told the pastor's wife? Thanks for telling us. Can you write a letter telling H about the experience?

It looks like it's getting closer to Plan B time. OW is LBing big time, and time for you to get out of the way (lest you receive the blame for HER!) What do you think about moving to a Plan B the end of the month? And a serious one this time...no more text or messages?

WN,

I know there's always hope as long as there's life--it just feels so remote right now. I'm an accountant. I do numbers all the time, so am always trying to turn this into "odds of it working" which is, of course, impossible.

Believer,

Want to fly up to the midwest from CA and clean MY house? I have a graduation reception to get ready for next month. I could use some help! I don't drink beer, but I'm sure some other drink would go well the BBQ that would follow, too!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SHMI,

Good to hear from you. In answer to some of your statements:

First, WH isn't saying he's coming back yet. He doesn't know where he's going. I'm just afraid he'll panic and ask to come back home for a while, and I don't want to push him away, or tighter into OW's arms, but am not ready for him to come home the way he is either. I think he's just living in denial right now that he has to make a decision in 4 days on living arrangements.

Yes, I am very hurt about mutual person. This makes me wonder if she's been using me all along just to get information as to what I'm thinking or doing so she can pass it along to WH. I truly hope not, and that the info that was divulged by her just came out accidentally, but now I'm very hurt by all of it and am going to do my best to avoid her right now.

And why did you keep the pastor experience a secret? You were ashamed?

Very, very ashamed---felt low and worthless and stupid.

You felt you were at fault? It sounds like you were victimized...OK, OK, you can share some of the blame, but he took advantage of you and preyed on you...

I take half the blame. I felt very angry and victimized at first, but I wasn't a child. I am an intelligent adult. No one held a gun to my head. I was simply afraid to say "no", I guess for fear of being abandoned by someone else I trusted and relied on heavily for support.

Have you told the pastor's wife?

No. I could never have done that. I told no one for years except the person who became my pastor after this one left. I don't even know where the guy and his wife are anymore. They left the state for a job somewhere else. I don't ever want to talk to him, his wife, or anyone involved ever.

Can you write a letter telling H about the experience?

I don't want to. I told him verbally all that I care to talk about when he brought it up. He didn't want to hear about it at all, once I admitted it was true. He got enough details to know what did and didn't happen, and that's all I care to tell him. He won't understand the "why" and it would just make me sick all over again to put it in writing. I have worked hard since it's re-exposure to tuck it safely away in a deep, dark corner of my brain and I'll do all I can to not think about it or mention it again to him or anyone else I know personally. If my family finds out, they will just die.

What do you think about moving to a Plan B the end of the month? And a serious one this time...no more text or messages?

I'm not sure. I know unless miracles happen, Plan B will have to take place. And considering I have problems getting through a day without hearing his voice, I'm going to have serious problems. It's really difficult with all the things in May: DS's bday, and graduation, and grad reception. I'd be seeing WH at least 3 times just with those items. Then I have a business trip May 10-12 and he'll have to stay at the house with the kids and take DD to school each morning. It's very complicated.

But I'm not sure if I'm just reducing my chances even more of him ever coming back if I wait until June.

Ugh! Sometimes I feel rather calm, and then other times I am just SO impatient that I don't think I can stand another day of this limbo, let alone months.....or years???!!

LL

LL-

I wish I could come there and help you clean. I hate cleaning, but it is rather fun to do it with someone else. Yesterday was a long hard day, but the satisfaction was worth it.

Neighbor just came over now to thank me again. She is very nice, and frightened about her son possibly having asthma. So we got the job done, and now we will see.

I think the chances of your WH coming back are great. The chances of a WS leaving the marriage are only something like 5%, and out of those that leave and get remarried, only 25% stay married.

So be patient girl. Forgive yourself for the past mistakes you've made and lay them at the foot of the cross.

Yet again, I feel like I can really relate to what you have been feeling lately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

dewt

Yes, Believer, lay them at the foot of the cross. I carried the guilt of my experience with a minister for years and tucked neatly away until I took it out and began to share my story. I exposed him to his bishop and spent a couple of years in group. It was VERY helpful, but I did have a few months where triggers and flashbacks were occurring daily. I got over it, and my H was understanding, and now am free from having that memory control my life. I had let it effect my faith for so long too, and now I have rejoined the church.

Plan B is for you and a way for the WS to see what life is like without you...something like a trial D. After D-Day a very wise woman said she had talked with many men that after their D regretted their decision. In the heat of the moment (battle) M escalate to D without each of the people involved really taking time to discover what life would REALLY be like without the other. Plan B gives a WS that opportunity. A taste of what life would be like without BS in the picture. It also forces the WS and OP together so they have to fulfill all the Waywards needs (they are sorely lacking). And most importantly it gives the BS a well deserved REST for the recovery that comes later and takes so much work...

But you are right, June may be a better month to move to Plan B. Things will probably move along as they are now for the rest of the month. He is having a good time, and has you behind him, supporting him. He knows if he REALLY needed help he could call on you. Plan A right now... show him the BEST side of you. Admiration, Affection, Domestic Support (yes, clean that house...sounds like it scores big points). Cut out ALL LB's. REALLY explore your attitude about your H and how the DJ's creep in. I suspect with your last dinner with him DJ's crept in, that's why the anger from him. Humble yourself. When you cried he saw the vulnerable side of you. Let him know how much this situation hurts. And get your ducks in a row for June...