Oh, crap I forgot one of the most important benefits of going away. Since we were relaxed and connected it was much easier for us to TALK...we did lots of sharing of our feelings and lots of team strategizing for our recovery.

Mom -

You are getting some very good feedback here. I went through a lot of this stuff separated from my then WH, so I didn't see a lot of this crap up close - thank goodness.

Everything that everyone is telling you is true.

The reason I am posting to you is to tell you what I think the magic ingredient in all of this is - TIME.

Even a month ago, my then WH told me he was never in love with me, married me for the wrong reasons, I was just his best friend, that I didn't turn him on sexually anymore. He used all of those "feelings" to justify his actions.

See, the thing about justifying actions, is that is uses a lot of energy. Soon, your H will simply run out of gas and get real with himself and you. You must make a safe environment for him to run out of gas in. He needs to feel, when he is ready, that he can tell you the stuff he needs to tell you, without reprisals.

My H still cannot say he loves me, but he remembers he was very in love with me, we married for the right reasons, I am still his best friend, and he finds me very sexually attractive again. I realize what time has done for me so far - it is your greatest ally! - and I am patiently waiting for H to love me again.

In fact, if he follows the same pattern that he has so far, he will wake up one day and realize that he never stopped loving me. He just got all messed up on the inside from this crazy life we all live in nowadays.

Everyone falls on their face. Let him know you are his partner, and willing to help him up in the ways HE needs you to help him up. Not your ways. Listen to him. Really listen. You will find your answers there.

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

Hee hee hee. I am laughing at myself, because I reread my previous post, and my last paragraph sounds like a fortune cookie!

I am a dork. Perhaps I have eaten too much Chinese takeout lately . . .

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS, you are an inspiration to all us BS and you give us hope. I am going to try my best to get back to the best Plan A...This weekend really messed me up. I just need to forget about it and move forward. I will continue to do my best and not force the intimacy. I told him when he was ready he would tell me and he did..Then it flopped...BIG TIME! so now he is basing his decisons on that one encounter. I hope he will soon realize that he did once love me and we can move forward. Thanks for you encouraging words!

Mom did you read my earlier posts? Please comment, thanks.

Mom -

You all here give me too much credit. This site is what brought my H back to me. Following the principles, listening the what the vets told me. Even if it doesn't feel like it can ever be right again, look at the vets with recovered M and you will know what time can do.

You are right. Don't forget about what happened this weekend - remember it for what it is - an opportunity for you to learn what DOES NOT work, even if at the time you feel justified doing and saying it.

I did the same things! I even messed up our last MC session. H got up and walked out angry at the end. I walked for an hour and a half that day, berating myself. Then I realized I cannot undo what I did, but I can learn. I looked honestly at what I was doing in the session, told my H my insights, and let him know that I won't do it again.

Therefore, if I do begin to do it again, H has an open door to step in and say, "Hey, SS, thought you said you weren't going to do this anymore." And I can sheepishly say, "Oh yeah. Thanks, I needed that!"

Lead by example. I shared my insights with H WAY before he shared his with me. I opened up WAY before he was ready to open up to me. By showing him I know I am not faultless, he became brave in telling me his faults. Does that make sense?

Anyway, you are doing great. And seriously, trust the process. In my opinion, when the H commits to the working on the M, 50% of the work is done right in that moment. IMHO. That was my hardest task, was just getting him to stop running from me, turn to me and look at me again. Figurtively.

Keep on keeping on!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[QUOTE]Originally posted by forevertogether:
[QB] Mom...the pressure is getting to both of you. I think several of us have suggested that the two of you get out of town...now (or as soon as you can). [quote]
The problem with getting out of town at this time, is my dad is very ill and I have no one to watch my boys. I would love to go out of town, but it cannot be done right now. I wish so badly we could! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[quote]My H and I treated recovery as if it was the most important thing in the world...at first he had major doubts...but knew that he wouldn't be able to live with himself if he didn't give it 110%.[quote]
can your H talk to mine maybe? Mine still reads, but isn't posting as much...at first he was 100% committed to recovering, but now since he saw her last Wednesday, he went back to square one..although last night he sounded hopeful. he said he is 50% detached from her and doesn't think of her anymore like he used to. Before he tthought of her all day long...now she is just a passing thought.


[quote]Money isn't everything...he can leave his practice for a few days....people do it all teh time for family emergencies and that is what this is!!!!!![quote]
it's not really the money issue at this point, it is finding someone to watch the kids for us. I am going to see if my mom can watch them in SA maybe this weekend (althouhg being Easter, might be a problem) and maybe we can go into the hill country or something!

[quote]You two need time away from stresses of job and kids...time away from threat of contact with OW...time to reconnect at slower more relaxed pace.[quote]
do you really think with his mindset right now, it would be a good thing though? I mean, he has no feeling toward me right now. He thinks of me as a friend, his words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by forevertogether:
<strong> Oh, crap I forgot one of the most important benefits of going away. Since we were relaxed and connected it was much easier for us to TALK...we did lots of sharing of our feelings and lots of team strategizing for our recovery. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I agree, we could have each others undivided attention without any kids. Would be so nice. But I am not sure with him being still attached to OW it would benefit any? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I mean he is still in fogland!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by forevertogether:
<strong> Mom did you read my earlier posts? Please comment, thanks. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I was posting while you wwere postinbg this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Mom..yes, I think that if you get out of town that he can reconnect to his feelings with you. Right now he is contending with his guilt, stress of kids, stress of facing you, his guilt, withdrawal, doubts of about himself...everything...does that sound conducive to reconnecting????

I know your father is ill...I know it's not a good time...but is it a good time for him to stress out and move out again???

How best for the two of you to start focusing on your recovery and yourselves then to get away from all the stresses??

Isn't it worth a try after everything else you've done and been through?

What can it hurt???

If you treat this as the emergency it is...you could find someone to watch the kids.

I hated involving our family and asking for help...but I desarately needed the help! It wasn't easy but we did it.

If you get away for a few days..you can take it slow...kind of like a date...then see where it leads. No pressure.

Mom & All,
I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I just had this happen to me two weeks ago. My d-day was in November... long story short, recovery started at Christmastime. My second d-day was mid-March when I found out he had not only been talking to the OW, but seeing and sleeping with her still. He even saw her while I was out of town on business for two days - where I wasn't sleeping because I MISSED MY H!!!! He wasn't missing me that's for sure - he had the OW.

My OW, just like yours is selfish, methodical, and melicious. She wants what SHE wants and damn the cost. Everyone here is right though. I too am SOOOO tempted to LB and trash talk the OW, but it only makes me look bad to my H. I have to present myself as the better option to him. She will be caring and concerned and not lash out as his talking to his W. I can't do that in return.

You and I both have to be the 'safe haven'. Eventually, the OW will get fed up with the indecision and start to self-destruct. Mine has... When he told her again he wasn't sure what he wanted she lashed out at him and told him he'd be divorced in 6 months anyway and SHE might not be there for him... Boo Hoo!

Mom, you love your H - I see that in your frustration. You and I are in the same boat, with the same hole with no paddle in the middle of the ocean. Right now it seems hopeless, but you and I have to have faith in ourselves and our love. I know I've told you this countless times, but really it's the only thing that gets me through some days.

Hang in there, your love will prevail! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Mom,

Just wanted to make a quick comment about you thought that if things don't recover as hopes, that it will be YOU who leaves and he who will deal with the mess.

I told my H that if we were to divorce I would not be a single mom. No way. He could have full custody of the kids (or at least the two most difficult) and I would take them every other weekend. Of course, I'd help pay child support, blah blah blah. I wasn't angry, belligerant, or LBing. I just stated it in the way of "this is what I will accept." Our boys needed a father and a mother; they sure as hell weren't going to do well with a single mom!

It was one of those reality slaps. The WH never thinks he will end up with the major responsibility of the kids, and the idea that it is a real possibility puts a damper on the fantasy of riding off into the sunset with OW.

~ Snow

Mom,

here's a long heart-felt post to you...I think you're worth it but you sure are struggling... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

some lucky people (in fact, very few but they do post here) have WS who "get" it the first time...that's why they followed a certain path and it worked wonderfully for them...

however, sadly, most of us have WS who do not "get" it the first time...sucks I know...big time...

you are tired and furious and in pain and confused and screaming and ranting and can't believe this is your freaking life!!!! why couldn't you be in group #1!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I understand...I empathize with you...I have shared your pain and frustration...I have had your impatience too, expecting things to change overnight...I have felt the euphoria when things appeared to be going right, and the incredible devastation at further betrayal...

but after I cried out "why me?" and shook my fist at the heavens, then I really listened and I truly learned...

I know you've gotten good advice...I've read some of it...but you are not "hearing"...why is that Mom?

ask yourself: do you want to be married? Or do you want to be right?

the two are pretty much mutually exclusive at this point...

you said something that shocked me, the comment "12 freakin days of WHAT!!!! NOTHING!!! We could have been half way thru this crap by now."?

halfway through WHAT??? whose timetable is this?????????

you are NOT on a timetable, you cannot use anyone else's recovery as a guide, except perhaps for absolutely what NOT to do...we are all unique, our WS are suffering differently, the OW is appealing for different reasons, the OW will behave differently, we had different existing problems in our M prior to the A, etc.

there is NO timetable...

or alternately, if you want a timetable, use the one I suggest to people...2 years...that's right...this is long-haul stuff Mom and you've got to get it together to make it through the long-haul...you're not halfway to anything right now, and certainly not even close to recovery...not for yourself, and not for your M...

listen to SS -- who listens well to others I might add...SS is one of the people who have "heard" what to do...if you find her inspirational, why might that be?

recovery ingredients: time, patience, love...

this is what will get you through this ordeal, nothing less...

my advice: you need to spend some time alone with yourself...go to that crashing freezing cold ocean...walk the beach and ask yourself: what do YOU want...listen to Just J (who is steeped in hard-won personal wisdom, did you hear her?) --
right now you are acting steeped in raging emotion...instead ask yourself what do you truly want?

when you accept that it is your CHOICE to be with your H during this absolutely disgusting time, with a raving lunatic acting out of control, with an ADDICT going through WITHDRAWAL complete with SETBACKS and lots and lots of CRAP...well then! I have a prediction for you...

you will find it a lot easier to control yourself...because then it will be YOUR decision to do so in your interests and long-term goals...you'll stop acting out against something you believe was inflicted on you...

you will accept that you and only you can control your own actions...

look Mom: here it is in black and white...you CANNOT LB...CAN NOT...no "try", just DO...

if you CANNOT stop LBing, how on earth do you expect your addicted H to kick his addiction? you are the strong one right now and yet YOU are out of control...

Mom: I want to see you succeed...please believe me, all the elements are in place for your marriage to recover fully even though it does not appear that way to you right now...

Mom: you are sabotaging your M recovery...you are the biggest obstacle to recovery right now, you are the biggest danger to your M right now...and unless you change yourself, in the future as well...recovery goes on for a LONG time...

Mom: if you can't stop LBing, then Plan B is the safest place for you to be...

but you know what? I think once you have that walk on the beach, and reach peace within your own heart, that you love this man and you are strong enough to fight for your family...

I think you're going to take a deep breath and come back ready to fight...

fighting means calm...

fighting means you quit focussing on OW altogether -- SHE doesn't matter one bit although I am not for a moment suggesting you ignore contact...

fighting means you have a plan for discussing painful issues with WS (like renewed contact), that you thank him for every little piece of honesty, that you establish your boundaries and stick to them like glue...

fighting means that you are going to be the lighthouse for your beleaguered WS...he's lost in a muckpile of his own making and he has no clue how to clean up the mess...you just keep on whispering your siren song to him...you'll be heard, stop fearing it so much...

in fact, maybe what you really need to do on the oceanfront walk is to face your fear, accept it and move past it...the sense of freedom is overwhelming although it is a very scary thing to do at the time...

heck: you can trust those of us who have been through it and survived! it feels awesome...very empowering... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

before ending this epic, I'm going to reprint something that shattered dreams wrote to SBAB, someone you remind me of actually...so very very angry...and self-righteous...and proud...and hurting immensely...

get your anger under control Mom...take back your life...you will feel so much better...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are getting great advice here. It is easiest if he doesn't move out. You have a greater chance of meeting his EN's when he's home.

You are going to have to reconcile with yourself to STOP the Angry Outbursts, Disresptful Judgement and all other Love Busters. Just stop. Make all conversations with WH as SAFE as possible. Make him understand he can say ANYTHING to you.

Remember, during an A, and during the Withdrawal process, the WS will say INCREDIBLY HURTFUL THINGS TO YOU. The reason? They are trying to evoke ANGRY responses from you, to further JUSTIFY their feeling for the OP. You LB, you play right into their FOGGY game.

Make the game yours. Set your resolve. No matter what he says, it cannot penetrate your "mental armor" and get to you. Always respond with loving kindness, and explain that you know he is hurting, and you are there for him.

I know it is contrary to the thoughts that you WANT to have. And I know how much you WANT HIM TO FEEL YOUR PAIN. But to succeed with getting him to focus on you, rather than the OP, you simply cannot hit him with a 2 x 4 once a week, let alone more often.

Relax, make it a personal challenge, come here to vent, and make WH totally bewildered by your loving kindness. He EXPECTS AND DESIRES anger and hostility to keep the A alive. Let him down, with love!

You can do this, and you know you can too!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you and your family deserve your best efforts Mom...forget about dad right now, he can't do it...you are so strong though...I know you can carry the burden a little further...c'mon...I know you can I know you can I know you can...awed

bumping this up in hopes Dad is reading

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Snowbelle:
<strong> Hi Mom,

Just wanted to make a quick comment about you thought that if things don't recover as hopes, that it will be YOU who leaves and he who will deal with the mess.

I told my H that if we were to divorce I would not be a single mom. No way. He could have full custody of the kids (or at least the two most difficult) and I would take them every other weekend. Of course, I'd help pay child support, blah blah blah. I wasn't angry, belligerant, or LBing. I just stated it in the way of "this is what I will accept." Our boys needed a father and a mother; they sure as hell weren't going to do well with a single mom!

It was one of those reality slaps. The WH never thinks he will end up with the major responsibility of the kids, and the idea that it is a real possibility puts a damper on the fantasy of riding off into the sunset with OW.

~ Snow </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, that is not a bad idea. matter of fact, he really was taken back last night when I told him I would be going to the hotel and not him. I would. He could have the kids and the house and I was going to be gone.

ANd you are right. I didnt' marry him to be a single mom..he can HAVE the kids. I can babysit for him. But he can have al the responsiblity of them. Who says that the mom has to have it.

Thank you to ALL of you guys, especialy awed! today I am much calmer than I was this weekend. I am still very confused and I apologized to WH about his weekend. You know what he says to me "no need to apologize, it is not your fault, you didn't do anything wrong"...confusing me more. THEN we went to look at a house. What the heck is he looking at a house with me for...

this man is very confused. One minute he says he doesn't love me the next he wants to put an offer down on a $400,000 house!

As far as talking about OW...I have not talked about her at all today. He has made jokes about her. I told him this is not a joke.

I do want my M to work...but it is very hard for me to see it working when the man I love is saying he doesn't think it will. he is very irritable and very impatient with me. he is not comfortable with me, I can tell.

I know I need to stop the LBing, and I have. I haven't LB'd him once today...I asked him if he watned to get away this weekend and he didn't really say anything. Very uncomfortable and I think he is afraid to be alone with me. That's ok, no big deal...

I can see him coming off the fence a little more. Today he is the same as he was last Monday...Hopefully, he can stay in this mindset. Sorry, this is a rushed post, but in a bit of a hurry. I will go back over and see what I missed. Thank you!

Awed that was truly awe(d)some!!! Mom, read that post over and over and over and over and over and....

You need to do exactly what Awed is saying, you need to regain control of the situation as it pertains to YOU and the kids. You need to make those heavy choices about what YOU want and what you are willing to do and then see the peace flow.

No, it still won't be easy. The pain doesn't just go away when we find clarity for ourselves. But when we know our purpose, a plan is easier to follow and that is what MB is all about, a plan of love and consistency.

Dad is acting like a million other WSs. Unsure. Looking at a new house with YOU? Wonderful. Sure, it seems kinda wierd coming from a man who you sense is uncomfortable even around you. But it is still a positive sign. Rejoice in the little things.

He's uncomfortable? Accept that. He is. The sooner you accept that, and don't feel rejected by it, the sooner he'll sense that you're moving on, in a sense, and the ball is in his court. He'll free the relief. Change may come.

Please, reread Awed's post. It is truly a gem.

~ Snow

PS Dad.... if you're reading.... please don't make the mistake that some WS have about this whole MB thing, like it is a football strategy that Mom is trying to implement to win the game. This isn't about winning or losing, really, and it certainly isn't a game. It is about love and fighting for the people we want in our lives, for preserving the things we hold dear. The MB stuff just makes it easier for a struggling BS like Mom to make it through the really rough gut-wrenching chaos. She is doing this for you, not just herself. In some ways it seems far easier for the BS to just walk away and leave the WS to their just desserts. But Mom has chosen not to do that. You are blessed.

I don't have much reason to post here too often anymore, but I like to check once and awhile. I got so much help here when I really needed.

Mom: I know the hell you are going through and the anger you are feeling, but WS is watching you. He *wants* a reason to come home. Give him that reason. And when you think you want him to realize how much he hurt you, make sure you can handle it. My FWS just went through something that shook him to his soul and I finally saw true remorse. I think WSs have their own hell to live through. Take care and stay strong.

I think I need to re-read plan A...I am going to print Awed's post out and re-read it over and over again.

I just had a nice long chat with myself. I thought and thought. What do I really want out of this? Do I really want my H back? After all he has done to me? After all the lies? After all the deceit? After what he did with the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ? After telling OW that "she's asleep at the wheel, she has no clue abotu this affair"? After all he put me and my kids thru"? After missing out on almost 3 full months of our lives cuz he was in La La land with OW? Do I really want this man back? Or should I just let him go? should I just let him go and be free to do what he wants? Maybe we would both be better off he was to be free? Maybe that is what we need? Maybe he is right? Maybe, just maybe I can find another man who will love me even more than my H ever did? Do you think? come on BS, do you really want to go thru all this with WH? All this turmoil? Can you really forgive him? Can you ever trust him again? Do you REALLY think he will ever love you again? HE says he wont? will he ever stop comparing you to HER?

Who do you think I was talking to? Yup, that is Satan working! He's pretty good, isn't he?

The answer to these questions is YES, I do want to keep my H..I do want to work on my M an dlive thru all this turmoil. I have forgiven him. I forgave him the day I found out. I will trust him again and I KNOW he will love me again. I am willing to stay for the long haul. I have no timline...before I was putting a timline of 6 weeks on withdrawal (probably something I read someplace)...I will stay for as long as it takes. I KNOW we can have a good marriage and I know it will work. I dont want to find another man. I want THIS man in my life.

I am NOT going to LB him anymore. I am going to LOVE him.

I have been thru the devesation of addiciton with my own brother. He was 21 when he first went into Drug rehab. I was 18. It was horrible watching what it did to my family. I watched my mom and my dad suffer every single day. I remember christmas's spent waiting for him to arrive and never did. He was and still is an addict. Today he is 40 and in Prison awaiting sentencing. It is still destroying my family. I do not want this addiciton to take over my family. We WILL make it thru this. With the help of all you people here and MB we will do this. SH wil guide me thru what I need to do on Wed. H will talk with SH tomorrow. Whether he wants to or not. He is the one who destroyed us, now we must do what it takes to get us back on track. Which is MC with SH.

I appreciate all of your help. I made a good decision today and I will stick to it. Day 1 is almost over...tomorrow is a new day.

I dont think H reads these posts, unless he is in here with me at the time I am reading them...so it is safe to do this...What on earth does this mean???

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OW says go ahead, go back and "make the best of it" like I have been for years. It will be worse she says but that is YOUR choice. I need time away from her for sure , she is not a reason to leave for I agree on that point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can someone please decipher this one?
And you wonder why my hopes are so low and I am so confused. The man is SCREWED UP! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I just dont understand him...what does he mean? Does he mean he just needs time away from OW until he figures out this wont work, or he WONT make it work. Is OW waiting for him? but she may be right too What does this line mean??? Right how? Right instead of ME or US???

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>