My W just called angry at me about going to see OM W. She was making it sound like I was stalking OM W which is funny because I ask OM W if she wanted to talk and she said yes and she invited me to have dinner. So I told my wife if she thought I was stalking her then why did she invite me to have dinner? My wife said this is what she wants so I said I can't believe how selfish you are, it's all about what you want isn't it I can't believe your selfishness. I asked my W if she feels guilty and her reply is yes she feels guilty. I also said you know this is wrong what you've done don't you, her response was a yes to this question also. So if she knows this is wrong then why does she keep on doing it? It's like she don't care at all. I told her that if you think that I don't deserve you because of what happened then your wrong cause all I want is you back in my life but I don't want the same marriage we had, I want a better one, one where we can talk be honest with eachother care for eachother. I don't know I just feel like it's one of those give up days today I guess I'll see how I feel tomorrow. I'm just so tempted to call her back and tell her to get the rest of her Crap out of the house and be done with it. Give her freedom to her and say hope you have a real relationship built on trust. I did say that to her "DO you really think your going to have a relationship built on trust." OH well I am not learning the MB pricipals very well. I did do one thing good I hung up before I totally blew up. LOL

Tinman,

Did you really LB? To who your W or the WS? They are 2 very different characters inhabiting the same body.

Please read this thread: WS' threats

See if you really did LB. If you blew it with your WS, that may not be a bad thing. If you blew it with your W, then maybe you need to apologize.

The fog distorts the truth and causes innocent parties/victims to be charged in error. You don't have to blame yourself for what you know you did that was right.

JMHO,
L.

Of course your W is mad that you spoke to the OM's W!!! Assuming she didn't know about the A, or didn't have a lot of info... it's all making the A come more out into the open. WS's HATE that, because it bursts that fantasy bubble (or at least shrinks it to more uncomfortable levels).

By MB standards, it was WRONG for you to have dinner with the OM's W. You are at a VERY emotionally fragile state now, as I'm sure she is too. From your reading on here, you should know that you are better to stay away from women right now. EA's can happen SO FAST! Protect yourself as much as you can from that... it will help you to save your M. Also.. if you make spending time with the OM'sW a regular thing, then that will simply enable the A all the more. It will give your W the ammunition she needs to resume her ways (her thinking will be, "He's doing it, so I may as well too").

I don't think you "blew it" at all. I think you've created some problems for the A, but that is necessary in many cases (exposure).

But through experience, I also know that you FEEL like there's no hope now, for reconciliation. Trust me, this is only a bump in the road. It's not a dead end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

Karen sorry I left out some key info OM DV will be final on Monday. I had dinner with OM W and her new SO. So I did no wrong there. I would not be with another person while I'm still married. That's not me. Sorry I shoulda clearified this earlier, was in a emotional state of mind. Took a shower and now I feel better. I mean why call me at all about this. That's what I don't understand.

Orchid your right I was talking to my WS because that is definitly not the person I swore to devote my life and existence to. It's just so sad to have to deal with that. When my W acts that way it get's me thinking do I want to be here to catch her when she falls? I'm not sure. One other thing I told my wife that I would contest the DV because she asked this question. I figure that if I told her this it might prevent her from moving in that direction so fast and she would be able to see OM for the piece of scum he really is. I just feel selfish myself for doing that. One other thing why oh why does my WS start to cry when I say I care about her. I don't understand and I guess I never will.

Tinman -

I admit when I read your first post on this thread I thought that you may have been just revealing the A to the OM's BW. I was thinking that having dinner situation wasn't too good of an idea, but as I read the posts following, I wondered something. Why was the OM's BW out with you and her new SO? Besides the common bond of being the BSs, did you guys talk about the A? If so, didn't that hurt the new SO? Just wondering and not judging at all!

I think it is fine to discuss the things you each know about the A and the WSs to try to blow the A out of the water. I think pressure from both ends is good.

Anyway, please don't be offended by my question. I just couldn't imagine myself sitting across the table from my husband's OWs fiance - ever. And they were friend's (coworkers) of ours, too.

Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wondered something. Why was the OM's BW out with you and her new SO? Besides the common bond of being the BSs, did you guys talk about the A? If so, didn't that hurt the new SO? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask to be honest it was surreal to be in that situation. I didn't want to have dinner but they kept on asking my so I finally broke down. We talked about the affair and I found out that they decided to get a DV right after Xmas. She wasn't happy and he wasn't happy. She knew about the A before I did but she didn't want to mess up her DV procedings, she is young and didn't know that where she lives is a community property state and there was no way her H was going to get more then half. Anyways the only reason I went was to let her know that her soon to be XH was having an A with my wife and was wondering if she knew. Also to find out if they were really going to get a DV and when it was going to be final which is Monday. I had no bad intentions at all just wanted info and to give info. Her and her SO are just going out now not anything serious yet.

Tinman,

I was thinking about you today. I decided to do some gardening (and I thought about how totally funny that was considering our recent conversations about gardening, sowing seeds for the marriage, the whole analogy, etc). I planted some new grass plus, planted some hybrid impatients, a beaturiful tressis with vining "bleeding heart" plant and a bouganvilla, and replanted a big fern I have. I NEVER garden and my daughter and I (she's 4) really enjoyed ourselves. We live in FL, and the weather was AWESOME today. I had so much fun, in fact, I would like to do some more outdoor improvements to my house, and maybe would even get into gardening a bit.

Anyway, back to your post.

Firstly, I do not think you blew it AT ALL. Aside from telling her she is selfish (which, she is, but that is probably not a very plan A comment), I think you did fine.

Fact is, most people DO discontinue behaviors they believe to be wrong or feel guilty about. So your question about WHY she is still engaging in the A is a valid one. I also think it was good that you planted the seeds (I know, that STUPID gardening analogy again) that you can forgive her, improve the marital dynamic, and have a relationship that far outshines the previous one. And I do think it is ok to point out the perspective that their relationship may not survive because of that important thing called trust.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm just so tempted to call her back and tell her to get the rest of her Crap out of the house and be done with it. Give her freedom to her and say hope you have a real relationship built on trust. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can totally relate to that. My WH will tell me things like "I feel cursed when I speak with OW, because I know how God feels about it." And I will SCREAM in my mind, "THEN WHY THE HELL DON'T YOU END IT WITH HER??????????" I would just tell him, well that must be God convicting him and trying to show him which way He would like him to go. And then I would go on my way, change the subject, leave the room quietly.

Also, my WH uses anger, rage, and accusations to wrap me back into all the drama (especially when I have pulled way back). A lot of times it will be things he projects onto me. So this whole "You are stalking the OM W," well, that may be just her emotionally juevenile way to "act out" and get you interacting with her (perhaps she is not "big enough" to do that by ending the A, admitting her error, and reinvesting in the M, but choses to interact with you in these silly arguments, accusations, etc).

Just my $.02.

Hi Tinman,

My WH gets majorly enraged each time I tell anyone info about the affair. And he does the accusing I'm harrassing them too if I contact anyone... even if they assure me they don't mind the contact. (Of course if someone says they "want to stay out of it", or act uncomfortable, I don't contact or tell them any more. According to WH I shouldn't even talk to any of my in-laws (been married 25 years)... He told his mother a whopper of a lie and I found out and corrected it. He was furious and said it was none of my business (um - it was a false accusation about me trying to force him to come home or else I supposedly wouldn't allow him to even speak to hsi daughters). Then he said: "She's a dumb old woman who's going to die soon anyway" about his MOTHER! This was supposed to convince me it didn't matter what he told her!

I don't know... they call it fog but I sometimes wonder if it's just your plain garden variety insanity LOL

So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I think the WS's are just embarrassed. Good - they ought to be!

ChristyV I think your right about about not reinvesting in the M or this was just another attempt at rationalizing that her having the A was the right thing to do cause I'm such a bad person. On the brighter side I'm glad to see you got out and did somethings this weekend to keep your mind off of things. I did the same thing this weekend I cleaned out the flowerbed and made room for the new flowers I will be planting this year. I'm not sure what I'm going to plant yet, I'm also considering making a new flower bed around the wellhead so I can hide it. I wanted to plant some trees but that might be to expensive to do since my W sounds like she wants a DV. Anyways you hang in there I read your post when I see it up to see how you are doing.


meremortal I hear you it's just unfathomable the audacity of the WS but we have to deal with it all I should have been smarter and just said "I'm sorry you feel that way and I really don't have time to talk because I'm going out now" but hindsight is 20/20. I should have been the rock under the water fall and just let the comments roll off my back like water over the rock. I just don't know how long I can endure this only time will tell and as Kenny Chesney says "Only time will tell but it ain't talking" one of my favorite saying lately.

well hello tinman, thought about all of us newbies here this weekend and couldn't help but feel sorry for myself a lot. i don't think you "blew it" per se. i think you showed a lot more restraint then some people could have shown, including your W. I'm really beginning to question my stamina to see this through. am i really going to stick w/the changes i've made in my life if we do or don't get back together? i'm beginning to wonder.

i'm really trying to see and do God's will in all of this but how do i know the thoughts that come into my head are of God or the devil? i'm mainly referring to talking to my FIL. i don't know if he knows my H is having an A but SH said that he probably does and my mom said that she thinks that if i did talk to my FIL that even though my intentions are good that my H would probably see it as tattletelling and if/when he comes back would he be able to because of some of the things i did during this time. does that make sense?

i guess because part of my problem is that this OW is single, her parents are supporting the R for the most part, and the A is not a "secret" to anyone where they live (as far as I know). my H says all his "friends" have told him for quite sometime that he should leave me and that he shouldn't even see or talk to me anymore and i know he's already calling her his girlfriend to some of his "friends." we BS want to do what is needed to end the A, and while this OW is still in the picture then my M has no chance of recovery. so then i think well maybe if his father knew then he would do something or say something.

hard to know, how my FIL would react if he found out (there's still the possiblity he doesn't know), he'll love his son no matter what, but his son didn't marry someone who was catholic and he says that he isn't catholic anymore, so would the fact that he's having a realtionship outside our M even come as a surprise? or convict him to say anything to my H. I don't know.

i'm really torn at having patience to find out what God's will is and acting on the thoughts i have about contacting my FIL. but maybe God's will is for me to contact my FIL. I guess only time will tell. try to hold out on doing anything until after you've had your first counseling session w/MB. prayers to you.

RR I just wonder if my W is upset because his family now knows that he's seeing a married woman well at least his sister knows. My W isn't wearing her rings so maybe his family thought she was single oops there goes that lie. My SIL came up with a great saying next time my W complains about something. She said to tell my W "You need to stop worrying about my backyard and work on your own." I think that is great. It's hard on the weekends if you have nothing to do, I find myself thinking a lot. So I keep myself busy to not think about stuff.

I was almost thinking of telling my W yesturday after the phone call that if this is what she really wanted and had no problems with me meeting another woman and building new dreams in the house where my W and I started our dreams together? I'm going to buy my W out of the house and she said I could have it we'll see how that goes once she talks to a lawyer. Anyways I do alot of thinking as you can see.

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]</small>

we can't help but think, no matter what i do or don't do to disconnect just so i can get through the day i can't stop but think about things. part of it is coming here, i'm starting to get really behind in work. i don't have any computer access where i live right now. wait to say anything until after your counseling session w/marriage builders okay?

That's what I'm going to do RR for now I didn't even want to talk to her Sunday but oh well.

how's the no-smoking going? i think you said that your session w/chalmers is today, is that right? let us know how it went. prayers to you

Well I haven't had one since Thursday, but the need is really bad right now, I'm nervous about my counseling. I know I shouldn't be, I also talked to my BIL this morning who talked to my W he's going to call me later and tell me how that conversation went. I want to call my wife and talk to her but I won't do that till I talk to Jennifer. It's one of those bad days I guess, I'll just keep busy at work to keep my mind off of things. Oh I did hear about one thing my BIL did say to her is that she needs to do right by me.

One other thing I hear my WW saying is "This is what she want's for right now" (Barf) Need a icon for this.