H and I had long talk last night regarding our M problems.

H said EA ended in July. Says OW "opened his eyes", "they connected".

H claims our M is over, he's tired of trying?

His side in brief. About 3 years b4 we got married, I had suicide attempt. H says from that point on he looked at himself as my protector, and was scared of me and what actions I could take. H claims that even though he was never "in love" with me (although he treated me and expressed the deepest love for me for 15 years) he married me.

Going forward, whenever I would want something different than him, he would oblige me due to his fear. I have threatened to leave him a few times over the years out of anger in the heat of the moment. H says that hurt him, which I can see how "the power of the word" is so strong now.

But if my "threat" hurt him and scared him, doesn't that show something deeper than a "protective love?"

H says I have totally controlled him over the years due to him letting me and that part of his life is over. He will never let me, nor anyone else control him again.

When I told him that I am learning to change my habits via this site, and Dr H's books H says he can see things swinging the other way. That H is going to do WHAT HE WANTS, no matter the consequences and we will be going through this same situation only in reverse. I will be the one tired of being a doormat, so he is ending it now.

H has 1/2 heartedly agreed to see MC to "hear what he has to say". When I ask if he will try to apply the MC's concepts H says "maybe I will, maybe I won't" - "I can tell you I don't want to be married to you anymore".

I was reading some pieces of of Love Busters book to H, he totally agreed with what I read. I explained to him that it is one of the books for marital recovery. H had no comment. Which is the way he often reacts when he disagrees with me but wants to avoid further discussion.

I know that by me saying "I'm changing" isn't a good move, that actions speak louder than words, but I am scared to death of the D papers anytime now. I told H that all I need to hear is that he'll try and I will relax and he will see my changes (which he isn't seeing now, I asked him. I am changing my habits and it's sad he isn't even noticing)

It's so hard to live with an H that you can't openly hug, kiss, he won't make love to me. The last time was in December <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

His mind is locked up tighter than a tupperware container <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

When we go into these talks, I can see it in his eyes. The wall goes up and he gets as cold as ice. He gets a glare in his eyes, like a zombie.

Looking for insight, advise, anything here.
Thanks for bearing with this long post and I admire you if you took the time to read it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

M, I can see so much similarities in our H's. He said very similar thinks to me, and acted the same.

I am using a different strategy now. Just be yourself, don't ask him whether you've changed. He can tell. He just doesn't say it. My H just doesn't believe my changes will last long. So let it be. A change is good to yurself no matter the M works out or not. That is what I do now.

well i'm not sure what i can say here but that it seems that what your H is saying is just part of the fog (regardless whether the A is still going on or not) and that he is saying those things to make him feel better about what he is doing to you. At this time in my life about the only thing i can suggest is just to pray because for everything there is a season. God has a plan for us and i just pray that I am doing what he wants me to do. Now, am i just telling myself this to get through the day? probably so but deep down I know it's very true. prayers to you.

Try going to PlanA/PlanB forum and check out meremortals link on the "I think I am folding link". It is about agreeing with everything WS says, to put an end to the impasse. I might be something to help. It sounds like your WH is going to say the opposite of what you say.

It sounds like your WH is going to say the opposite of what you say.

I see that happening. That's not a very good way to live though is it?

When I got married I had such a sense of safety, especially being a woman. I felt safe that whenever i needed to talk, have a hug, kiss whatever, my H would be there to fulfill this.

Now I have no safety. H thinks he has me trapped due to his financial standing. So in essence he thinks he has control of me.

Try agreeing with him, and drawing out his feelings. Then if it drives you crazy, come here and vent. We understand exactly what you are going through.

Another interesting comment H made was this.

H says "I am the type of person to live and let live, I don't place restrictions or control people. If you were to put a gun to my head right now and said you were going to shoot me I would say go ahead because I won't try to control you".

Pretty messed up don't ya think?

He's big on the book called "The four agreements" but I believe he is taking into the wrong direction.

H keeps saying that his belief system is too different than mine.

Help me out here. Has anyone ever heard of someone staying with another for 15 years and never being "in love?" Lying about it? Treating the other like they are a goddess, like their one and only?

In the name of protection? H says he has protected me all these years.

Keep on with the Plan A. Keep making deposits into th'ol love bank. I'd say the goal would be to make things comfortable for him while you give a chance for Plan A to take effect and the Love Bank to fill.

I'm with you on the 15yrs thing. Perspective of the past can change to fit the perspective of the present. Hopefully this will be a bump in the road for you.

dewt

M, you are not alone. Just to see what my H said to me. Soetime I even can't help laughing. JUst ignore them now, don't take them personally.

It's so hard to ignore. He's so serious about it when he talks, and he's telling 1/2 the town.

He says EA ended in July, shouldn't he have been through this fog? Why did he come to me in January, not July?

Your husband sounds very wounded to me and he's trying very hard to figure things out in his own mind. So far he's come up with this "protection" theory – and who knows, maybe he's right, or partly right.

But I doubt he never really loved you over all of these years.

Right now, though, it seems to me your task is understanding that he is trying to make sense of things. I am hoping that MC wil help shed a little light for both of you so his present uncompromising views will soften.

~ Snow

Dear M01069,

I am a husband struggling with boundaries in my marriage and family. I have read to Page 84 in Boundaries in Marriage, and I have ordered the vidotapes from Walmart.

You asked on another thread how to word a boundary that you will not live in a marriage without physical love. I did not repond on that thread, as you have this thread going.

Your husband's words don't seem very revealing to me. He is not really saying much that is very clear to me.

I have not seen where your scheduling and his satiation issues have been discussed. For me, the morning time is important for satiation through the day. My wife and many women are more easily arroused in the evening or night. Is your Husband subject to arrousal in the morning? Is there a way to get a schedule or habit started? My wife used ot be available in the mornings, but that changed some six months ago.

The Boundaries in Marriage book speaks of the power and attraction in a marriage, increasing for a partner who takes more intitiative. Are there ways you can set the mood at a time your husband is susceptible? I bought some silk bathrobes for my wife to wear to bed, but she prefers to wear housework clothers to bed. My wife more prefers to watch people killing each other on TV rather than anything romantic. I have more to learn about boundaries.

Blessings

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But if my "threat" hurt him and scared him, doesn't that show something deeper than a "protective love?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, not necessarily. It can mean a lot of things...fear of failing as a husband, fear of facing life without you, fear of change. It also hurts to think that your spouse would make these threats to manipulate and hurt you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H says I have totally controlled him over the years due to him letting me and that part of his life is over. He will never let me, nor anyone else control him again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is more about how your H is perceiving himself that it is about you. It sounds like you settled into a 15 year habit of him being passive to pacify you and you naturally believing he was behaving this way because he loved you. It's possible he's reached a point in his life where he wants to change this about himself. You represent part of the "trap" he's trying to escape from. He think's by changing everything about his external world that he can "start fresh" defining who he is outside of the confines of his relationship with you. This doesn't mean your marriage was all bad. When women do this at mid life, it's called the "walk away wife" syndrome.

This will be hard for you. If you stay with him, it means you'll need to learn that he's not going to bow to every whim like he may have in that past. (I can hear you saying "But I'm not demanding!") You can help with this by evaluating the demands you make of him. You can listen to him when he disagrees with you. Encourage him to learn to ask you for what he wants as well. He's in the habit of suppressing his own desires to avoid conflict with you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> M, you are not alone. Just to see what my H said to me. Soetime I even can't help laughing. Just ignore them now, don't take them personally. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, lnh...this is a recipe for disaster. I agree that she should avoid taking comments personally, if possible, but ignoring what he's trying to say is a sure way to push him out the door. My affair STARTED because I felt ignored and disrespected. Had my wife continued this behavior, I would never have gone back. God forbid that she would've laughed at me...that would've been the death knell for our marriage.

I was struggling to redefine myself in a critical time of life. It was serious business to me. I would expect that a partner who loves me would take it serious too. My wife didn't...I found someone who did.

Low

Dear M01069

I read a few more posts of yours, and it is possible to phrase the issue as a matter of trust, which is needed as a basis for intimacy.

Trust can be acheived, earned or created, by observing your partners boundaries. Boundaries can be observed by listening and acknowledging and giving consideration where reasonably possible, and practical.

The books on Boundaries in Marriage that I am reading, suggest that a partner who feels his/her boundaries are not being met, (Intimacy for you) should look to the boundaries of the partner, and see what boundaries of the partner can be discerned, and given more consideration. So it sounds like your husband has been listening to you, but he feels taht you have not been listening to him, and he has even avoided bringing up his wishes for boundaries out of consideration for you.

In the meantime, your husband has lost some trust in the relationship, so on option is to seek to understand his deisres that he is holding back for you.

Drawing-out type listening skills is a thread in itself, and I am trying to be brief, so if you want to discuss active listening, post furhter.

Questions like, "What would you prefer?" What would be best" What would make things easiest for you? What are the overall concerns to be considered?"

An EA indicates that H might not feel he is getting full consideration, inspiration and encouragement. In what ways could you be more encouraging of your husband's interstes? What are your husband's intersts? How do you already encourage him? What options do you have to be more encouraging?

In an earier thread, you mention that your husband will talk about complaints about events that occurred in the past. You may be able to get some ideas of his boundaries from his comments on the past. Sutton, docspeaks.com, on ODD, which I am also studying, talks about Frontloading vs Backloading. Backloading is taling about past complaints. Frontloading is planning for success in the upcoming days and weeks.

I suggest that you might try to find pleasant ways to set boundaries on listening to your husband's recollections of your past mistakes. My wife will get started talking about the Bible and recent sermons she has heard. After so much time, I feel I have heard enough about religion for awhile. I ask my wife to summarize her ideas, so we can change the subject. Sometimes I have to request her to summarize a few more times before I can actually get her to talk about our future planning.

Blessings

<small>[ April 07, 2004, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>