I stumbled across an article the other day which talked about the different types of affairs there are and it seems like my husband is in what is called a 'loving affair'. Here is a description of a loving affair which fits our circumstances to the point:


Loving affairs are usually based on friendship, caring and understanding and are a refuge from the duties, pressures and responsibilities of day-to-day life. They are predominantly emotional and may or may not have a sexual component. They offer opportunity for self-discovery, sex, experimentation, counseling and acceptance.

The affairee is a confidant(e) and friend. Affairees feel love and caring for one another but do not seriously consider leaving their spouses. Loving affairs last years, decades - and even a lifetime!

If discovered, loving affairs are temporarily suspended but resumed later. Affairees believe loving affairs enhance their marriages by meeting their needs.


My husband has known the OW for eight years. During this time she got married, divorced, had one broken engagement, several boyfriends and is currently engaged again. Sometimes there is no contact for a while and then it resumes again, especially when there are stresses in their lives - deaths, illnesses, marital or personal problems etc.

When I read this description, it felt like someone punched me in the stomach, especially when I read that sometimes those types of affairs last for decades or even a lifetime.

Kati

Kati -

I echo your feelings of disgust here. You can't possibly meet anyone's ENs as long as they are in the heat of an A (EA/PA). I think you can try your hardest but if they are in the fog of that relationship they will never see their marriage partner as meeting their ENs..that would not help them justify the A. In the heat of the A they look for justification.

Am I right or am I wrong?

I think often these types of affairees don't consider it an affair. It is just a good friendship. Unless the affair has gone physical it will be hard to convince one of these affairees that they are actually having an affair.

Maybe he needs to read the article!

Dear Kati.
What you wrote about the nature of loving affairs is exactly how I feel about the OM that I had a deep friendship with and a passionate love affair for 10 years.
(He was single, not some woman's husband BUT I was married!)

The OM has found someone else to spend his life with...He finally accepted that I am married and he knew he could never ever have me for keeps!
I am sincerely happy that he is no longer alone...His health isn't very good.

However, our loving feelings for one another, I truly believe, will last a lifetime.
I think we have an enduring love and friendship that being apart will not stop.
Time will tell!

And I do love my husband and the OM loves his new woman (I am 53, OM is 61)
I love them each with a different kind of love!

One thing I have noticed on this message board is that many people cannot stop loving someone just as they cannot begin loving someone JUST BECAUSE they WANT TO....
"To love or not to love is not a decision of the will."

Have you noticed how some men and women love their WS no matter what and also how some want nothing to do with them?

Feelings of love and caring are as impossible to curtail as stopping the sun from rising or sweeping back the ocean with a broom.
It cannot be done!

Our actions can be controlled but not our hearts!

(Of course many affairs are not deep embedded love affairs with loving feelings that will last a lifetime, some are just flings and infatuations.)

Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

Sarah,

The tragic flaw in your beautiful prose is that one person in your life is living a lie. Your H should have the choice to decide if HE wants to live with a woman that will love the OM until she dies.

You can talk about loving your H, but it is clear you are still just using him. You would rather lose him than your OM, yet you will NOT let your H have the choice. Your H deserves exactly what you so romantically feel for your OM.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I do love my husband and the OM loves his new woman (I am 53, OM is 61)
It is just in a different level of love!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, in the case of OM it is a full love, in the case of your H is the love of what he brings you, but not him isn't that the difference? Your H hasn't had your full love in decades now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thing I have noticed on this message board is that many people cannot stop loving someone just as they cannot begin loving someone JUST BECAUSE they WANT TO....
"To love or not to love is not a decision of the will."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, it is a decision, because love is a verb, NOT a feeling. You choose to acting lovingly toward OM. You choose to betray your marriage. You choose to allow your H to love you, although he doesn't know you.

But, let's say you are absolutely right, then what justification do you have for NOT telling your H? Are you afraid that he might stop loving YOU? But, how could he if it cannot be controlled? How do marriages end if love is so uncontrollable so unbreakable? I think you know the answer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you noticed how some men and women love their WS no matter what and also how some want nothing to do with them?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I have noticed how many divorces there are. Have you noticed that you have not been honest with your H, and you have not trusted his love, yet you claim that it is NOT easy to stop loving someone? This is not making sense Sarah (pretty and small). It really is NOT.

Kati, has good reason to be afraid. Your H would too if you were ever loving enough to tell him the truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Feelings of love and caring are as impossible to curtail as stopping the sun from rising or sweeping back the ocean with a broom.
It cannot be done!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only if these feelings are applied to an OM or OW, right? This apparently is NOT true if the other person is your spouse whom you promised and vowed to love forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our actions can be controlled but not our hearts!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, you did not control your actions. And you have not allowed your H the choice to control his.

This all sounds so romantic, but the other part that Kati posted was about it lasting for a lifetime IF there had been no physical aspects to the A so that each could deny to themselves that their "friendship" was not an A. You cannot do that Sarah.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(Of course many affairs are not deep embedded love affairs with loving feelings that will last a lifetime, some are just flings and infatuations.) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I know you are unique, just like everyone who comes here. Everyone feels unique, but they are not. You have not really been understanding things here, but let me remind you that Harley pushes NO CONTACT because he recognizes the feelings last, but the idea is that the focus of the love changes. You have NOT done that, you have NOT been honest with your H, and you have no intentions of stopping the robbing of your H to give to your OM.

You are still in contact right? Still meeting his needs and your needs, right? Still stealing from your H AND from his GF right? My my how beautiful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

If all of this was so beautiful and right, you would not mind telling your H, your children, your church, and neither would he mind telling his GF, that she will always be second best in his mind.

It is neither and you know it.

Kati, you have reason to be worried, but I addressed Sarah's post for a reason, if you look carefully, you will see the lies of what she is saying. It may be true that your WH feels like Sarah describes, but so do most people in affairs. It changes when the affair ends. Sarah has never ended her affair, so what you see is the normal consequence of ANY affair.

It is not that special. If your H does end the affair, AND goes to No Contact, you have a very good chance of rebuilding your marriage. If he does not, you do not. Just as Sarah has said. She is in the affair, and for her it is just fine. People come and go, but her affair remains because they will cheat on his new GF and Wife-to-be just as they have on her H for a decade or more.

She has very little conscience about this now, and he never had a conscience at all. He needed her, he did not mind ruining her marriage, in fact he wanted her to leave her family, so he is not changing.

Kati, the key is whether or not your H will end the affair. It is not so much what kind of affair it is.

I hope your H sees the light soon, because you can see what happens when the A does NOT end.

I wish you the best.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Sarah and for that matter Kati, I realize you will not end your A or tell your H. You have been here a long time and you have shown no inclinations toward real honesty. My comments to you were so that Kati could see, what she is dealing with and also see that what makes your A different from others here simply boils down to the fact that yours has NOT ended. Harley clearly points out that until an A ends, there is no chance to rebuild the marriage. Too bad Sarah's H doesn't here it would be interesting to hear his view of his marriage especially in the past decade or so. Sarah knows as does your H that she/he are robbing their spouse of focus, attention, and love. And you as well as her H are aware of it.

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Sarie:

JL's right. Kati does have reason 2 be concerned. So do you, as I tried 2 impress upon you over on the "letting go of OM" thread.

Unless your H is dumber than a post, he's going 2 "get it" someday that: 1) you lied 2 him and have not ended your A, and; 2) He's NOT 2 old 2 start over, and that even living alone is better than living with a liar who's affections are likely 2 remain divided for the rest of her life.

I'm there now. It's fish or cut bait time, $h!+ or get off the pot time. My W resumed contact with RM but DID NOT NEED 2, ostensibly 2 protect HER from his XW, who she believes is nutzo and possibly violent, solely because she MIGHT be on a field trip 2 his workplace next week.

I know better. She didn't know whether they would go there. She didn't tell me she was planning on contacting him. And worse, even though I've repeatedly told her how hurtful it is that she contacts him, she rationalized my "I can't tell you what 2 do" in2 "You told me you didn't care if I contact him". All the fog-latin came right back. It's still here, but not as bad, because I blew up this time, LB'd like crazy, and threatened 2 file for DV. We calmed down and reached a compromise, though, where she said she would go NC "for a while" and I contacted Penny Tupy 2 look in2 M coaching for us. My W has her number, and can show me a lot of good faith by making the call before she goes on the trip. We'll see.

I love my W, who I've been M'd 2 for over 28 years now, but I will NOT stay married 2 her if she EVER intends 2 resume her "friendship" with RM. EVER.

Sarie, your insistence that you will love your OM "on a different level" and that your feelings for him are not controllable is nothing less than utterly insulting 2 your H. Someday he'll get this and your M will be over and you won't know why or what 2 do about it. That is, unless your H is as dumb as a post.

Stop it, please.
-ol' 2long

JL, everything you say about me is basically true.

Whether what is going on inside my heart and mind is called FOG or LOVE, only time will tell.

I have went for a couple car rides with him and we have kissed...we talk almost every week so I guess the affair is kinda still going on.
It isn't over completely, that is for sure.
We still care very much for one another.

And yes, I have deceived my husband.
He hasn't a clue... not a clue .
He would never beleive I could be a cheater.
NEVER. And yes it is not fair to him.
If it were he caring for another woman, I would want to know!

Oh by the way,JL, it is not Kati but her husband that is the wayward spouse.
Love, Sarah

Kati,

I don't know where you read that article but it makes me mad to hear anyone describe an affair with such "platitudes".Nowhere in this description is the pain and suffering that affairs CAUSE,the ugly truth.UGH.This type of definition also sickens me.

The grandiose romanticism of Infidelity by the affairees is a perfect example of the lack of reality based living and misguided marital problem resolutions that we as BS's endure.


O

2long...I have been reading your posts for a long time.

Your wife hurt you very very deeply.

Your posts make me so thankful that my husband does not know.
I think if he did, I could not be so cruel as to continue the contact with the OM.
I think that is the main reason I don't want my H to know of my feelings for the OM because then all the conversations would have to stop.

Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

sarah,

I am shaking my head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
You are very transparent.You selfishly want the OM and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep that going.You do not think you are being cruel now????? Your last sentence was your Freudian slip....up.

Or maybe you really are that calculating.Hmmm.I weep for your husband.Oh what a tangled web we weave.....

o

Sarie:

GREAT, then TELL HIM and kill 2 despicable birds with one stone!

Or, don't tell him, wait until he figures it out, and be out of both men's lives forever.

want that? it's coming, I assure you.

-2long

Sarah,

I know Kati is the betrayed one. I posted as I did so that she would NOT become so discouraged by what she read and what you said.

You know Sarah, I just had a sort of Ah! Ha! moment. I think I understand why your story and posts bother me sooo much. Permit me to explain.

I sense that you are a woman of deep compasion.
I sense you are a woman that is capable of great and deep love; physical and emotional.
I sense that you sort of have a wild side that you have NOT let out, other than with OM, and I still think your son's passing has a lot to do with OM being in your life.
I also think you are a very bright woman with deep convictions.

Given all that, I suspect your H has not been treated to the real you in a long long time. If he EVER got to feel the love you are capable of and have lavished on OM, he would just melt. He would thank his Maker that you are in his life. But, he has not seen the real you in over a decade, and I am betting not since your son's passing if then.

He is being robbed of a true treasure of life, having you fully in his life.

There are times when you post that I feel like I would like to meet you and know you, and yes I am married so that won't happen. I suspect I would be tempted and I have remained married and happily so by avoiding someone such as yourself.

Having said all of that, I feel for your H because he is being robbed of sooo much. I know you say you walk with him, you hold his hand sometimes, you go to church with him, but he has NOT felt the full power of your love and compassion in a very very long time. I would imagine he has sort of withdrawn, sort of conflicted because he senses more, but you hold him at arms length sort of.

But, most of all he KNOWS the woman he married and what she was/is capable of and yet he does not see it. He does NOT get what he knows you can give.

Did you read 2L's post? Do you understand that he has felt the same sense of NOT getting what he W could have offered for almost 13 years now? Do you realize that he may move on, but if he does, it will be with the knowledge that RM and his W robbed him of a chance to truely love and be loved?

What I sense in you is something very special, yet it is directed at the wrong man. It is stealing from another woman, and sadly it is stealing from your children and grandchildren for they will never see their father has a truely happy man, nor their mother.

There is only one chance for this to work out well, and that is for you to end the A, and tell your H the truth. I have no doubt that if you are capable of what I think you are, you can turn the pain your H will feel into a deep deep love. You seem to have that much power.

Yet, you squander it on rides and kisses, and sneaking phone calls to another womans's man and then lies to your children and your H.

Someday, hopefully before you lose your H to death or as 2L pointed out,to truth and life, you will come to understand what you have already lost and what you will lose.

Kati's H will have to make a similar decision, but what she needs to know is that if he does, no matter what that article said, she has a chance to receive the love, kindness, and protection from her H that she deserves.

After all that is what this site is about: rebuilding marriages after the worst has happened to them. You know but your H doesn't, the worst has happened to his marriage and he is the poorer for it, because you have NOT used your considerable abilities within your marriage. You have squandered them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

That Sarah (pretty and small) is why I continue to post to you. I sense a woman with enormous capability to bring happiness to her H, and he does not truely get to see the woman he is married to. She is just a shell, while she squanders her abilities on another woman's man. It is hard to watch/read Sarah.

It is a conscious decision to love, and you have made a conscious decision to love OM, NOT your H.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you JL.
You are a kind and compassionate man.
You have such a deep caring spirit!

The last time I posted you wrote me something like: "Sarah, it is time to come home...you have been away a long time. Come home Sarah."

I thought about that and cried about that for a lot of weeks.
I am physically home but a part of my heart, as you know, is 4 miles away, with the OM.

Our daughter just had a baby girl this week.
Their third child. I was waiting in the hospital and my husband was at work.
And even in my worry and distress over my lovely daughter, thoughts of the OM kept creeping in.

I prayed "Lord, just let me forget him for a little while, PLEASE." Yet he remained right there in my mind!

I am so caught in this web.
You say just give my husband the love I feel for the OM but I don't know if that is possible.
Right now, it doesn't seem so...
I guess my love for my H is more brotherly feeling....Do you understand what I mean.

I have a feeling that if couples that have been married for 35 years were asked what the romantic excitement level was in their marriage, many would give low numbers.

Sunday, all the family is coming for Easter dinner. My family sees me as the sunshine of our home...Happy Sarah!

My husband and I go to church every Sunday and most sermons knock hard on my heart's door that I need to repent!

But I just CAN'T imagine NO CONTACT with him. (OM)
He has been a part of my life and me a part of his for such a long long time....He calls me his angel because my loving and caring about him helped him live at a time he was dying. (He would have without a transplant.)

Something else you said JL, that I have been thinking about, is if just one of the affair partners would say "NO MORE" then the affair would end!...That should be what I say!
Love, Sarah

Sarie:

Go HERE: http://saveyourmarriagecentral.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=244008616

and scroll down 2 "reclamation" and register there. It's a private forum for people having affairs that want 2 quit and need help 2 do so.

please, go there.

This will be harsh:

JL said:

"I sense that you are a woman of deep compasion.
I sense you are a woman that is capable of great and deep love; physical and emotional.
I sense that you sort of have a wild side that you have NOT let out, other than with OM, and I still think your son's passing has a lot to do with OM being in your life.
I also think you are a very bright woman with deep convictions."

I think he was being generous. I don't believe any of this, because I know that you're not sincere.

I wish you well,
-ol' 2long

Octobergirl.
Of course that last sentence was selfish.

I don't think there is one person that ever had an affair that wasn't being selfish and thinking only of themselves and their affair partner.

People having affairs just do not think of the consequences...We think it will remain a secret and thus no one will ever know and so no one will ever get hurt.

That is our warped/irrational thinking!
Sincerely, Sarah

2long....JL is right in that I am a compassionate, generous, loving person.

Perhaps your wife and I are alike in that when we love, we love deeply.

You said she won't tell you what she is thinking, especiall concerning the OM.
I am telling you what I am thinking and it isn't very pretty for a BS ears to hear!

I am sorry, 2long...I am sorry your wife hurt you. I really am, it is not fair, you or my husband do not deserve this betrayal, not at all!
If my husband knew, I would be sorry to the depths of my heart for hurting him.

I really don't think I should be posting here because I am not following the MB rules of confessing to H.
Sincerely, Sarah

Sarah,

You know you have to quit calling him, quit seeing him. You have to let the woman in his life have him. If you do these things, I suspect you will see your H in a far different light. Do you think your God can forgive you when you are unrepentant? When you lie to your H, your family, yourself?

How do you live with that? I am telling you again, it will happen that your H won't be there one day and you WILL NOT have the opportunity to help as you did your OM. Time is moving along Sarah, it really is and you going to regret NOT making the best of it. You have no excuses and you will lose more than you imagine as the events unfold.

People that are married 35 years do have a good marriage and love for one another. It can actually get much better as the stress of life eases and the next generation comes along. But you are squandering the golden times, you are squandering your H's future and his happiness. You owe him freedom if you cannot leave OM. Then leave your H and allow some woman with love in her heart to love him and make his life better than it is. He knows and feels that you love him like a brother. As 2L said, he is not a fool and he is not stupid.

Let him go, if you cannot let OM go. You are a poor W to him now, and you are robbing him of his future and life. Let him go. Go to OM. Do something wrong right once in your life. You have lost a son, you might as well let your H live a little with a truely loving woman. At his age he could have 20-30 maybe 40 years of happiness with someone who truely loved him. You are robbing him Sarah.

I do hope you think about this.

JL

Hi JL, Sarah, reading all this has made me a tad angry and upset. Angry because you are being a "cake eater" just like all the other foggy WS's on the board. I am your age (give or take a couple of years) and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about regarding "loving affairs". I still have moments quite often when I realise I'm never going to see OM again but he is "dead" to me now and I know time will take him away from my thoughts completely.

I saw OM's wife and daughter today. I was with H and we had just got back in our car when she walked past and didn't see me. She doesn't know. I thought I was going to throw up from guilt. I said to H "I have just had a narrow escape that was OM's W." He said "That's nothing to me but you are going to have to always deal with this."

Upset, because, Sarah, I've done what you refuse to do and IT HAS BEEN WORTH IT.

I can't say any more than that. All right, a bit more - it has been HARD and PAINFUL, really, really painful but RIGHT and I can look in the mirror and know I've done the right thing for TWO families.

Jenny

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

I would like to thank everyone, including Sarie, and especially JL who posted their replies to my threat.

I find many similarities in Sarie's responses to the things that my husband tells me, except that I KNOW of the A. Sarie's H does not yet.

I really do not think that my H will ever be able to let go of this woman, maybe he does not want to and maybe he just does not love me as much as he loves her.

JL said that our marriage can recover if he stops the A and has NC and I do believe that to be true; if he does not there is no real chance for recovery.

I feel that the ultimate decision is actually up to me and not him....

Kati

Kati,

You are sort of right. If you decide to end your marriage you have all the power and the right to do that. If you decide to hang in, then he has to make decisions as well. But, you only have to put up with the situation for as long as you choose to.

The said thing about these situations is that people on both sides have more power than they realize, and less as well. Like you said you can make final decisions, but you cannot change your H. Frustrating isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do hope you got something use from Sarah's posts, but also that they did not discourage you too much. It is a fine line. You need to see what the other side might be, but seeing may not be uplifting.

I hope you keep posting and that we have not frightened you too much.

God Bless,

JL