it seems like forever since i have been here...

the weekend was spent at the lake house. H and I don't talk much about A really. he says he does want to try to stay together. he just does not know. we've had small talks here and there. i try my best to stay patienct and answer his questions. i know he is not wanting to just beat me up, i believe he is wanting to try and work thru this. neither of us really know what to do.

sat and even more on sunday, he was really struggling. he has a really hard time talking about how he is feeling, what he is thinking. he can't talking much to me nor does he want to talk to anyone else either. he does not want to do C or read any books. i just don't know what to do for him. i just keep telling him i am here for him, that i want to be his wife again, that is why i confessed.

i don't know what to do.

most nights and mornings we end up having physical contact, pretty much like i talked about before. i am glad that helps him sleep. i know there is no intimacy meaning for him but it is still meaningful for me. For whatever it is worth, it is a way i can give to him right now even though it is in a very limited way. it is very unpersonal right now but i refuse to let that bother me. it is meaningful to me. and all i can do is pray it will improve.

yesterday was very hard for me, i couldn't even come here. i realize now that coming here is exactly what i needed so i am here now.

i can't afford to get lost in my own fears and frustrations. i did eventually find some ablitity to center myself late last night by focusing on God, and the stmt, God does not make junk. I am not junk. I've made terrible mistakes but I am not junk. It is really hard to not feel like junk right now, but i am not junk. even if H never forgives me and/or loses his love for me, i am not junk. no matter what is happening around me, i have the choice to love him everyday and that is my focus.

last night he asked me to do something for him. he wants me to lose weight. i'm historically a smaller person, i have a small build. my struggle with weight started after losing our daughter. i actually got back into shape about 3 1/2 yrs ago with the Atkins diet. internally i kind of feel like i was finally successful losing weight because i was getting stronger in my decision to end the marriage. I gain 40 lbs over the last 2 yrs and it has been something that am constantly struggling with. i see the weigth gain as a result of the power struggle between H and I. I wanted out so bad (although not bad enough to just tell him about A back then, so maybe deep down i must not of really wanted out), the more i pushed H away, the harder he held on to me.

I asked him what my losing weight would mean to him, he asked me to not anaylize his request too much. but then he later told me that me losing weight would show him he was worth the effort. he also told me it would be healthier for me, which i totally agree. and he said, he wants to be married to a person that can accomplish something significant like that.

i would love to lose the weight, i have no problem with the concept, i just know i have had a really hard time as of late getting that under control and i don't want to disappoint him.

so that is about it. overall, i am still glad i confessed. i am a better person for it. but i am very tired and i have a headache more often than not. yesterday i kept breaking out in tears but so far today i am holding it together better.

this post just seems to be a mess of rambling. any feedback on any parts of it is appreciated just the same.

<small>[ April 07, 2004, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL,

I sat here reading your post and wondered what to say. So what you are going to get is just some random thoughts. I think your H is a wise man. Apart from what losing weight might mean to him or his sensibilities (he is a photographer after all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), i think it is a marvelous suggestion for another reason.

It will make YOU feel good about yourself and it has been a long time since you have (at least 2 years right?). If you feel good about yourself, your tears will dry up, you will smile,and you will be able to help your H. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. I wonder if he realizes how much doing this will help you emotionally as well as physically.

Now being a bet devilish, I would like to suggest that a bribe is in order. I think you should demand <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> a kiss for every pound and a kiss each day for every 5 pounds you lose. I think you could keep that man puckered up for a good bit of the day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for the other things, I think there is more intimacy than you realize going on. Hoewever, there will come a time when you need to ask him to help YOU. Don't wait too long for that to happen, us guys can get pretty lazy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hang in there FL. You are doing well in fact you are probably doing better than you think. This all very very new and raw for your H. But, you can smile, you can be you and I would suggest that you do that.

God Bless,

JL

JL, thanks for the response. i agree it would be very good for me personally to accomplish this but there is just one little problem...

WHAT IF I AM NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO DO THIS!!! especailly right now. i know it sounds simple, just eat reasonably and exercise, well, it is not that easy for me, i am an emotional eater and i struggle with that, especially now as i am so emotional! and i'm in such bad shape, exercise seems so overwhelming, i'm so tired all the time and i have such a headache. we don't go to sleep till so late everynight and i have to wake up so early for work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for the other things, I think there is more intimacy than you realize going on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i hope you are right. I pray you are right and for now i guess i will just have to have faith that you are right. it scares me some though too, it feels great while it is happening, because i know i am giving him pleasure, but afterwards, feeling his distance from me, it really hurts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hoewever, there will come a time when you need to ask him to help YOU. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i don't know when that time will come, i certainly don't feel comfortable asking him for anything, right now i don't know if i really want to be touched anyway. i too have visions from the A of my own to deal with and they are getting uglier every day.

for a while i felt happy because this was out. i am trying to hang on to that, but i just cannot smile much right now. i fear today is not really going to be any better than yesterday.

FL, I wasn't able to read all your posts from before, but I was aware of your struggle. I want you to know how brave I think you are. The last chapter of "After the Affair" Talked about whether to tell about an A or not is up to the WS. When I read that I felt so angry. Who has the right to decide whether the S should know or not know something so significant as an A? So I give you a lot of credit.

Concerning your weight. In the late 90s my H was facing a chronic illness in which the meds made him very depressed. He dealt with it by withdrawing, and having an A with his guitar. I'm not joking. He totally escaped into the guitar. I was incredibly lonely and used food for comfort. I probably gained 30 lbs in a year or two. When I realized I was using the food to escape the bad feelings I did stop, however losing the weight has been another story. Finally since last summer I have knocked off 20 lbs. Of course some of it is due to the A weight loss diet.

I did a lot of reading and for me realized when I ate too many carbs it triggered a desire for more carbs. The one thing I noticed with the High pro diets is after the induction phase my cravings did go away. What I'm doing now is loosely following the South Beach Diet. I like it because it's not extreme. Prevention.com has a support group for it, which I don't use, but maybe you'd find it helpful. It's free. Since the A came out I slowly have really decreased nighttime eating. That has really helped. Also, I drink this stuff called revival soy every morning. I got it to lower my cholesterol, but I think it has helped with weight loss. Finally, maybe you and H can walk together. In spite of what we are going through, we are enjoying walking together.

Losing weight is tough, but if I can do it, you can. Take Care! CV

Welcome back FL! Things sound about as good as can be expected. I was not concerned about you b/c I know God is taking care of you and your M. You can do this. I have alot of experience with weight loss (and gain), it is a lifelong curse. I know your lacking sleep and that is definatly going to keep weight on you. Try to get more sleep. For me, I need to avoid the fatty carbs and soda. I have replaced sweetened drinks with wine. Less sugar. Also, I lost about 20 pounds before I joined a gym and started regular workouts. Also, get an accurate scale to wigh in daily.

I know your are worried, but I really think you are headed for real recovery. You have a chance for the happiness you have been wanting. You are doing well and I believe your timing in telling H was right. You have the resolve to keep him there and he is staying. Keep going forward and focus on your changes. Continue to be loving and patient and you'll win him back.

Glad you're back,
Christ's Love,
Roman

FL,

Have you considered asking your H for help. You should. Tell him you want to lose the wait, but you need an exercise partner(the exercise will do you both a lot of good physically and emotionally). Ask him to help. I realize you were an emotional eater, the last two years have been awful for you haven't they? You knew the A was bad, and you reacted to it even as your H was doing his best to rebuild.

So it is time you two became a team, quit pulling back from him because he is hurt. Go to him ask him for help with this, and learn to become a team. You will be surprised what may happen if you quit withdrawing and actually took an active role in your marriage, and encouraged your H to do the same thing. Go for long walks, then some running, both of you decide on a diet, and he will help you stick with it.

Girl, you don't know this but his seemingly simple request is the break you are looking for... USE IT.

Talk to him, ask for his help, and as he helps you, you will be able to help him.

Think about that.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

sometimes i get so mad when i read your posts. you make things so simple, but what you forget is you don't know my H.

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he does not need a diet. he is in good pretty good shape, not a muscle man but in very healthy shape. I can tel you for a fact, He has no desire to change his eating habit.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he has NO interest in jogging with me. nor would he walk briskly. he has weak ankles, although he walks a lot while playing golf.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
ok, so i just got off the phone with him, he does not want to help me. He wants me to do this on my own, to show him my strength, to show him he is worth the effort it will take me to accomplish this. he needs to see that i am willing to do for him after he has been working for so long while i was in A. he know this is a superficial type of request and he does not mean to negate the other things i have been doing for him, but i think he is negating it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> quit pulling back from him because he is hurt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i am NOT pulling back!!! but i cannot push him either, he tells me i have to be patient. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">take an active role </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what do you think i am doing if not that??? the little talking we do do is because of my prompting. but i can't push him too much. he just says does not know if he really can recover from this.


and YES, the last few years have been extremely awful for me.

I know i did the right thing here but sometimes i am not glad i did it. maybe finding this website was a curse not a blessing, i know that is not true, but i am venting. i am tired. i don't think H is thinking anything was wrong with M before A. It might not have been great, but he does not think it was so bad.

I think my H is wonderful, i know this post is a bit all over the place. but H is not like so many of the BH that are willing to take responsibility for the state of the M prior to the A. Actually H did take responsibility for that, hence all the changes and my ability to come back to him, but he is not getting that at all, it is not registering in his brain.

CV and roman,

i just wnated to acknowledge and thank you for your support.

i have no problem with the concept of losing weight, but to tell me that i need to do this in order to prove to him that i love him, that seems wrong to me.

it's like when he used to say, if i loved him i would keep the house in better shape, even though i was the one with the full time job!!! he never complained about the type of personal relationhship we had (or didn't have really!!!). in counsoling, it was always about my inablity to keep the house in shape, that act does not state love in my opinion. i realize it does in his though. nor did it seem fair since i worked so much more than him.

right now, i'm feeling a bit used and i don't want to take it out on him, so i am venting here instead.

FL:

One of the ENs addressed on this site is "AS" - Attractive Spouse. At first, I thought that a "need" for an attractive spouse was a vain, petty and shallow need that isn't "worthy" of the other, more nobler needs, but then I read the material here and looked at my own response to my W.

I want an attractive spouse. It has been proven in many pyschological studies that we do tend to respond more favorably to attractive people (same sex, opposite sex, even kids). It is a very hardwired response, but it is very real.

For me, the AS need more complex than even I first realized. It works on many levels: First I want to relate to an attractive person. Secondly, everyone else does, and if my W maintains a certain level of attractiveness, it reflects favorably on me. An attractive spouse draws a more positive response from others when they interact with me. It also tells them that my W thinks well enough of herself to put the effort into looking good - an indication that I am treating her right. Finally, it tells the world that my W thinks well enough of me to put the effort into her appearance.

The problem is we get these very contradictory messages all around us. On one hand, we are told to value the physical beauty above the inner beauty. We are also presented with unrealistic role models. And we are told that the two are somehow mutually exclusive - although this seems to contradict the very real findings of all those psych studies - and that outwardly beautiful people are somehow shallow and internally ugly. "Love the inner me".

So, I can see your dilemna. But, don't cling onto that bit about controlling. I think that it's really a smokescreen you are subconsciously and unintentionally throwing up. Perhaps you are feeling that losing the weight and becoming more physically attractive is somehow at the loss of your "inner beauty"?

Finally, turn this around. Reflect on how his physical appearance, including wardrobe and grooming, reflect on you and how that makes you feel. Not only that, but ask yourself if you ever wanted him to change - for you? Did you ever ask him? Did you ever try to initiate change within him?

I heard it said once that men marry women hoping they'll never change, and women marry men hoping to change them. I also heard it said that women fall in love with the potential a man has to be, rather than what he is. I think this is not exclusively a woman only thing; sometimes men too want to change their partners.

But, honestly, have you ever felt that, if he really loved you, there was some change that he would make to "prove it"? And, when he didn't see the bloody obvious, did you ever try to illuminate him?

It may be a test of your conviction, it may be him expressing a need for an attractive spouse that seems so gauche to come right out and say. But, don't look at it as controlling. I think that's just a way of hanging onto the old marriage of the past.

uphill,

thanks for the thoughts, i read thru what you said twice. i'm not sure if you completely convinced me of anything.

i definetly can say, i am impacted by the way a person looks but that is only when i first meet them. I certainly don't look down on a person if they gain weight. i know you are not saying anyone is looking down on the person, but you are saying it can justifable impact a person.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. Perhaps you are feeling that losing the weight and becoming more physically attractive is somehow at the loss of your "inner beauty"? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no, i don't think that at all. actually although i don't think i am a beauty queen, i am nice looking. i have very pretty long curly black hair that goes 1/2 way down my back, i have pretty brown eyes and a very nice smile. i think a personality is what makes a person pretty or not. didn't you ever meet someone, have a reaction to their looks but then have that change after getting to know them? i have. if you are looking at a picture, outer beauty is all you can see. when you are relating to a person, inner beauty shines thru.

of course i certainly think a person needs to stay well groomed and i do that 100%

your advice to not cling to the negative response i am having is very good though. i certainly would not mind losing weight. i like to be active with the kids and i must admit, i can do that better when in better shape.

Hey FL, if you want a diet and exercise buddy, let me know and we can do it together! I have been on Atkins for 5 years now and have had great success with it. I know that I just feel so much better eating healthy and being slim. We have a lowcarb forum at www.lowcarbfriends.com.

I also do home workouts with the Firm and Cathe Freidrich tapes. They are awesome workouts that really keep me interested.

FL,
Hey girl, I tend to think it is not a good way to prove your love. I saw you got pretty ticked about your H's response to helping you and you vented on JL. I am sure it is a touchy subject and don't want to stir it up. I can remember back when I asked you what would you do if your H rejected you. Do you fear he may become the person he was before? These are questions that will be tough to answer. I am sure it hurt you when he made his request. But you did say he has been trying to win you back and made changes that made you love hum again.

One of my visions for M is that we acheive an unconditional love for each other. I would love for us to feel safe enough with each other so that we can give freely to each other. I know it sounds whacky, but I believe it is God's design for M. Does it mean you will let each other down from time to time? Yes, but the trend is always up. So how do we get there? Since we have brains and bodies, we learn about each other and how to meet each others needs. There are books for the head knowledge, but the feelings must come from the heart. Sometimes only one of us has the vision, but that one has the power of love to sustain him or her and help to endure while reaching out through the rejection.

I know you want your M to succeed at any cost. I hope he sees that, but does not take advantage of it. There will be times when he hurts you as he heals. Try to let him know when he does. He may lash out and blame you, but he still needs to know. Don't lose weight to prove your love, lose weight because you want to look good for him and God. Give yourself a little break, you have really come a long way. You are becoming a true giver. God does not want us to perform, He want us to give ourselves over to Him. If God's love was based on performance, we would not have to love Him.

Please keep you chin up and don't forget to smile. I'll bet you feel better when you do.

Christ's love,
Roman

I've got to back Uphill up on this one. Physical attractiveness is specifically listed in Harley's book, 'Surviving An Affair' as one of the (average) top 10 emotional needs. Not only that, but for the average man, this need ranks in at number 3!!!

I will not get into the debate as to whether this is shallow or superficial or anything like that...

BUT...

If we go with the assumption that Dr Harley knows what he's talking about, you are actually sitting on something pretty great here because...

Your Husband has actually come out and asked you to meet one of his emotional needs.

Think about this for a second. It is really great.

Don't debate. Lose the weight.

If you need to do it on your own, so be it. It would have been nice to get the kiss a pound thing going, but do what ya gotta do, girl. He's handing you the keys to starting a true recovery here. Slowly, and bit by bit, but he's giving them to you. (You should really go out and buy this book)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

dewt

Hi FL, unfortunately I didn't have time to read all the responses to your post...But I will give you my feedback quickly! I dont think it is wrong to lose the weight, but I am not sure about doing it JUST for him.

OK, forget the Atkins. It doesn't work. Yes, you will lose the weight as you already have in the past, but what happened? You gained it all back. I lost 35 pounds and promptly gained it back. I am now on Jenny Craig and have lost almost 30 pounds since January. 13 due to the INFIDELITY DIET...Then go to the gym. I hired a personal trainer yesterday. Told H about it and how much it cost, he almost flipped...but too bad. He spent that much and more on OW.

Exercise, it will make you feel better. I like Jenny Craig cuz the food is all there for you. You never have to cook your own food again. And you know what is so funny. During the A when Ididn't even know H was having it, he was so supportive of me losing the weight. He would hug me and congratulate me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am not going to comment on your H, I haven't really gotten a good picture of who he is, primarily cause I think your descriptions are substantially skewed due to your own psychological issues. However, re the weightloss issue, I agree pretty much with the others (didn't read all though)...that being, sure why not, you need to anyways..

pragmatically, I see it like this FL, it really doesn't make any difference why you lose weight, whether cause you want to, your H coerces you too, or someone kidnapps you and takes you to that island where they control everything you eat, and aren't allowed to leave until you lose it....the point being, the health benefits to losing weight far outweigh the particular reason/motivation, so just do it, and quit fussing about it. I found all the whining about being an emotional eater (I am one too) unimpressive...ya know?

so let's see.

1. It may help the marriage.

2. It is healthy for you (and therefore your kids).

3. It is good for your self-esteem (you DID it).

4. If the marriage fails you will be in better shape for future relationships.

Looks to me like one of the rare times an action has NO down side....so just DO IT.

well it has been 8 days now, every night and most mornings. H is now comfortable with me using more than hand. while it is happening, i feel really good about giving him pleasure, afterwards when it stops abruptly, IT"S HARD!!!!

H told me this morning he still does not see anything more happening for a very long time.

no wonder i have a headache all the time, this can't be good for me!!!

Melody, thanks for the offer. I did Atkins before with great sucess. I never felt better. But then I went back to old way of eating so of course i gained it back. i don't see that as a failure of Atkins, as with any diet, you can't go back to bad eating habits and expect to keep weight off. i've tried to go back on Atkins but this time it is not working well. excuse the bluntness, but... my digestion system does not seem to like it this time. last time i became so regular, it was awesome, this time, major consitpation... you ever have this problem? any thoughts on what to do? thanks for the offer of being my diet/workout buddy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i'll take you up on that.

to everyone else... regarding weight loss request.. ok, so it is a valid EN, i can deal with that. I still don't think i am physically unattractive, but I do have too much weight on me and I would like to be healthier too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your Husband has actually come out and asked you to meet one of his emotional needs.

Think about this for a second. It is really great.

Don't debate. Lose the weight.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i can't argue with that.

and the same is true about the SF issue. I am glad he asked. I really want to do this for him. But, i am human too!!!

it seems to be easier for me to deal with at night then in the morning. at night, i can feel his release and total relaxation so much so that i fall asleep pretty good too. but the morning is a different story, in the morning i am just left feeling very very very frustrated and tense and uncomfortable.

so i told him this, this morning, he said he understood and that we should back off then because he really does not see wanting to do anything more and he can understand that that is unfair to me.

now i am just feeling bad that i cannot meet his needs without needing back.

how am i ever going to be able to do all this???

FL -

Hey you! Hang in there, girlfriend. You are doing great. Regarding the weight, if you do it, so will I.

I have been way overweight most of my marriage. A couple years ago I lost 40 pounds doing Weight Watchers - highly recommend that plan - well balanced, easy, and inexpensive.

During the infidelity diet, I lost 30 more! Now I have the final 20-30 pounds left - probably the hardest.

My H never said he wanted me to lose weight for appearance reasons. But now that I am so much smaller, he loves it.

In a way, I wish he would have told me what a priority it was for him, and maybe lit a flame under my butt to get me going.

Right now I am doing the diet and exercise approach. I know you have a headache a lot, and feel exhausted, but if you can commit to even walking each day for 30 minutes, 5 days a week, I truly believe you will see the headaches go away, and you will be less tired.

It sounds like it would be the other way around, but it isn't. And the walking will help you find clarity on the other issue I was going to post to you about, the one-sided SF.

A week ago when you posted about this subject, you said you would do it as long as he needed, that it was something you could do for him to help him get through this.

When I had to do things to help my FWH that made me have anxiety or anger or resentment, I exercised. I cannot stress to you how much this has helped me. Both psychologically, and to keep the infidelity diet pounds from coming back once I started eating again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A week ago when you posted about this subject, you said you would do it as long as he needed, that it was something you could do for him to help him get through this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and now, just one week later, i'm already failing him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> not good, huh?

OK. you guys are right. he is telling me his needs and they are needs i can certainly fill and that is the one and only bottom line. I love this man, i want him to be happy and i want his needs filled.

looking at the first 15yrs of our M is a bad idea. In my eyes, he really became complacent and didn't work on relationship at all and i fear that will occur again. at the same time, looking at the first 15 yrs of our M, I didn't do the right things for the marriage either.

But the fact remains, these past 2 1/2 years he has shown me what he is about on the inside. I know what I am about now on the inside too. I am strong and capable of giving much. I KNOW we can overcome all this stuff together. Our M will never go back to the way it was.

so, thanks for the 2x4's, not that anyone really did give me much of a hit. but, in any case, attitude has been adjusted here, I love this man and I'm going to everything he needs in order to heal.