Hi Christy,

Hats off to you for handling yourself well with the "visit".

But now you have to up the ante here.You have to tell your WH to stop coming to the house except to pick up the kids and even then I would wonder if you couldn't work out a pick up/drop off with an intermediary or family member or neighbor? Maybe we can work that out later.

You need to keep setting those boundaries or he is going to keep testing you and perhaps even get more aggressive.I personally would not change the locks YET unless his returning to the home without your permission became a consistent issue.Legally I think he has rights to enter the home still if it is jointly owned.You are only in a Plan B,not separated or even legally separated which allows him to be there when he wants.If you change the locks and don't tell him,I think he might go off on you for that and that could just create more defensive behavior from your WH.Like the others said,check with a lawyer first.

By now,your WH has had his "fix" of you by being at the house and that will probably carry him for a while longer until the next coincidental or planned contact with you.Adhere to the strictest Plan B you can for this to have it's desired effects.

And about the purse.I would return it to him.
IMO,it is a "tainted" gift,one that I would never want to have because it would remind me of WH being in an A while he gave it to me AND again,IMO,he did that as a show to the child(ren) that he is trying to be nice and buy their feelings that dad is no in the worng here.Sick.My WH does that too.He is being Mr.Model Dad all of a sudden and letting them have extra sweets etc when I'm away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He is SO transparent.

O

ChristyV,

What had helped me in the pass was I watch OM & W & OMW telenovella w/ detachment. They are the player and I am the audience. I could sit back drinking corona & eating chips and Salsa watching their drama but I was not part of it nor wanted to.

Keeping totally dark Plan B is the best.

-rh-

Originally posted by ChristyV:


"But I don't want to be mean."

I felt obliged to point out this is a very "dumb" comment you make here.

You are NOT "being mean"...

You are:

being firm

being strong

self-respecting

setting personal boundaries

keeping your word (Plan B promises are to be KEPT if you don't want to become a liar yourself)

Post HERE whenever you waver....

We'll kick your butt

make you laugh

make you think

give you cyber hugs ((( ChristyV )))

give you "att'a girls"

Pep

Ok. Get out the 2x4's, I may just like it, actually (ok...maybe that was a too kinky for public post, but whatever).

I am up for CHUMP of the year award. I saw that WH's bank account was overdrawn, and I am such a T-Total idiot, that I put some dough in his acct to take him out of the negative and have a few dollars left over.

So then I learned that WH won this very prestigious award with the company (he was in NY last weekend for all his "work" in India, and it was stage two of the award, and that put him in the running for stage 3, the grand prize, and he won it). With it, he wins a $5k bonus.

I found out he won the award through the grapevine (a friend that works with him).

So I called him last night (ok...I'll take my lashings here....) and told him I was hurt that he did not call me to tell me. He told me he was not hiding it from me, he figured I would hear about it (I have a lot of affiliations with his workplace, friends there, clients there, etc). I told him for me, it was not about discovery, but about being forthright. In other words, he and I both knew I would hear, but it hurt because I did not hear it from him.

He told me he withheld the info because he knew I would rain on his parade, and even if I feigned congratuations, he knows me enough to know it would not be heartfelt (because, it was in India that he met up with crazy Indian woman and had an EA/PA, and he is still heavily involved with the EA, writing her, instant chatting, etc). He was afraid to tell me, because a part of him knew it would hurt me.

I told him I could see that perspective, because I am conflicted. A part of me is proud of him (it was a HUGE professional accomplishment to be recognized this way) but a part of me does hurt, because I know what he did there.

So then, I went on to have a discussion about respect. I told him I thought it was totally unacceptable that I treated him with total and unconditional respect, which, he has not earned, and he treats me with a great measure of contempt and disrespect.

I cited the examples, aside from the glaring example of the ONGOING A, the horrifying talk last Wednesday, the withholding of info like this award, not acknowledging the large $ deposit I made in his account, him coming to do laundry at my house this week, him bad mouthing me to her, etc.

And that last one, the negative talk about me to her, is the one that really, really, really pisses me off.

I reminded him of the fact that I have never, ever, ever, ever disrespected him or her. I have never called him a no good cheatin sob. I have never called her a no good skanky devilish whore. And while I may have felt that way at times, I never went there, because I recognize, no matter what happens in our M, I will never be able to recruit him into the "I hate OW" fan club. No matter what. He will never probably feel that way about her.

He told me he was hurt that I purposefully avoided all contact and his calls.

I told him, quite honestly, I felt his recent treatment of me was emotionally abusive, and my self imposed separation from him was intentional, so I could avoid further hurt, preserve the loving feelings I have for him, and comes to terms with some of the hurt, heal, etc., etc.

He went on to really sound hurt, cried, etc. Although I have seen the tears before... . I asked him about his church/family plans for Easter (by the way, his parents moved out of my house TODAY). He had none, and again sounded really down. I invited him to church and to see the kids Sunday. He thanked me for the invite, but did not indicate that he would be attending. OK...whipping #2. I would deserve it. I felt like a big time chump here, breaking my own Plan B rule, to have him not readily accept the invite. I AM A TOTAL IDIOT!

I don't know. I feel really manipulated. He was only trying so fervently to reach me Wednesday because he wanted to do his laundry, not because he missed me, wanted to see me, etc.Everyone says he got a "fix," but I think he needed clean underwear more than that.

I have no idea where to go from here...do I come out of Plan B, just say nothing and go back to it, or what?

I tend to think time to just go back to it, because none of this is supposed to be about winning him back. It is supposed to be about protecting me and my children and moving on. And if that is so, than I need to not know him right now.

But I can't help wanting it to be about winning him back...because that is truly what I want.

Ok...let the beatings begin.

Please take some time to work out exactly where your boundaries are ....

How much disrespect is OK with you before you say ... "This is the end. I will accept no more disrespectful behavior .".....?

Pep

PS

You are NOT the "chump of the year"

Please change the thread title.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Christy,

No 2x4s. Just a wake-up call. :rrrrriiiinggggg!!!;

When your husband won you over the first time - when you were a single gal without a care in the world? Was it that you begged for his attention and care, especially at the first, or did he get to pursue you?

Read the Plan B success stories - for example, Look up Leilana's story on the recovery board. She used to have a slogan when her WH went back to the OW and hid it for quite some time that went:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
LIFE'S TOO SHORT AND I'M TOO CUTE!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She booted him to the OW's house immediately. She knew that he needed to get a snoot full of reality living with OW 24/7. She had the confidence that she was a better option than the OW, but knew her husband liked the fantasy and that would remain as long as she was in the picture to meet his needs while the OW was also meeting his needs.

That attitude snapped her husband's head around real fast. So fast that the man's insides couldn't keep up with his emotions at the thought that he had really really blown it this time.

Leilana knew full well she would survive without the heartache that a wandering wayward, selfish foggy jerk perped on her.

While that was what she showed on the outside, I'm sure that along with her fury at being duped a second time, the heartache of losing something that she had really really worked hard to come back from the first affair was choking her. But she didn't allow any self-doubt to come through to her husband. As far as he knew, she was through.

Christy - if you had one ounce of self-esteem, you'd make him crawl back to you. And you wouldn't have to demand it. You'd get on with your life and start to looking really good. But you let him deal with the reality that you don't care to have him in your life while he's enraptured with fantasy.

As long as your insecurity is in any way expressed in your life, you will not be able to do a Plan B effectively. You must be absolutely confident that you are worth a man being faithful to you.

Okay, I'll give you the 2x4.

Christy, when you are in Plan B, you aren't going to hear about his awards from him. You won't hear about his activities, his triumphs, his defeats, his thoughts, his feelings. That's the nature of Plan B. Calling to tell him how you feel is not what Plan B is about.

The whole point of Plan B is that you are done with explaining your feelings, you are done with pointing out the effect of his actions. It is time for him to experience the effect of his actions without coaching. It is time for the silence to teach him -- and he'll either get it or he won't.

OK...I can see both your points. And no, when H came around pre-marriage, we actually had a long courtship, and a nasty break up, and I got on with my life, and he came CRAWLING back, doing some serious work to try and earn me back.

But somehow, it seems different now. We aren't kids. This is not a game. And we have kids of our own, so there an awful lot of lives at stake here.

I can see that you are right. He won't respect me until I respect myself. And chances are, he may never respect me, but at least, I will respect myself more!

Christy, please contact Penny Tupy at info_lifeworkscoaching@yahoo.com. She provides e-mail intermediaries.

Please please please please PLEASE get in touch with her to get one in place!!

Alternatively, would you please e-mail me offboard? I promise that I won't use (many) 2x4s. Maybe more like a 1x1.....

You're not helping this situation by allowing your WH to walk all over you and your life. Please please please please????

So, here is the recap from my failure of a Plan B:
* Delivered letter in person on 3/23.
* 3/26 WH STALKED me and threatened to come to my office due to discussion he had to have with me re: unresolved financial matters. Met with him to solidify financial arrangements and visitation plans for the kids on 3/27.
* Broke Plan B & spoke with WH during the worst conversation of my life on 3/31 (IT WAS T-TOTAL AWFUL, and he said the most hurtful, emotionally abusive things ever, that just made me want to pitch the whole damn thing). He made the statement that NC between us would not work due to the kids, etc.
* 4/7 WH called me very agressively to verify he was supposed to get the kids. Did not respond. WH continued to pursue contact, until finally, I responded via e-mail and told him he was to get the kids. WH asked if he could come to the house for this visit, so he could do his launry. I said no, but WH was home doing his laundry when I got home. At that time, I invited him to Easter morning festivities with the kids.
* 4/8 I called WH to complain about the lack of regard for me, how he did not notify me of award status, etc.
* 4/11: WH came over Easter morning. He had breakfast with the kids and I and then laid on the couch awhile and watched cheaper by the dozen with us. Then, when we started getting up to get ready to go to my Mom's for Easter dinner, he said he was not comfortable joining my family and he left.

So...how do I go back to Plan B. I really have not been in a good Plan B to begin with.

Plus, I have read that link from that MBer who used a lot of the 180/Divorce Busters tactics to retain her M and get her WH back from the mothership Carol's story Carol could not have pulled this off in Plan B because she would not have had the exposure to her WH to let him know what she was up to so he could pull his head out of his a$$. I think this would TOTALLY work on my WH, and he has even had some moments of jealously where he asks who called me, who was I talking to, who was I out late with, etc...so

Now what?

I hope to connect with Steve or Jennifer next week...but am unsure of what to do now. I keep asking the same ?, and many of you are probably frustrated with me...shaking your heads! I am sorry if I seem a little THICK. I am someone who really trusts my intuition about things, and I am rarely wrong, but all of this is so counterintuitive, that I question everything. Bottom line is, I want my marriage back...a better marriage, etc. Not ready to walk away from this....

ChristyV,
Here is my recommendation, take it for what it's worth.....

"Insanity is defined as repeating the same methods over and over and expecting different results" (or something like that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

What you are doing is not working for you. You need to examine why that is. Is it you or is it the program? If it's you, than stick to the program. I suggest being firmer in Plan B. Tell him that you do not want to speak to him, while he is in a relationship, period. Find an intermediary, someone at your church, anyone. If you can't find an intermediary, then set up a separate email from work. (Hotmail, etc....) Tell him to email you only at that address, if he doesn't comply (and he emails you at work), tell him you will delete his email. Don't get into a power struggle, but set boundaries and stick with them.

If you believe it's the program, than maybe it would benefit you to try something different. But I would definitely firm up your Plan B first, do a solid Plan B, and then try something different. I don't feel that you've done a good Plan B.

Your WH is running roughshod over you. Stiffen up, and make him follow your rules. If you are firm in Plan B, this is not his game anymore. If he doesn't want to play your game by your rules, than let him take his ball to OW's house. Don't play his game anymore.

Please keep in mind that I may have no idea what I'm talking about.

Good Luck,
Ethan

Christy it sounds like your H is in control and your not. You need to stay in your Plan B or as everyone here has said your H will not respect you he will see you as wishy washy. It's hard, and I will find out how hard tomorrow when I put my W in Plan B. Your H has total disreguard for you due to the fact that he doesn't care about what you want it's all about him. I would have several copies of the Plan B letter made up and everytime he tries to weasle his way in I'd give him a copy everytime he wants to make contact. Even if he emails have a copy so you can cut and paste and send the Plan B letter in an email. Unless it's business related. Then tell him to just email the questions he has to you and you answer them via email no phone. I wish you luck stay strong my MB friend. You can do this.

Christy,

I had a response to you but lost it.Argh.

Oh well.The jist of it was that you really need to adhere to Plan B but your shooting yourself in the foot by allowing your WH to come and go as he pleases(basically) and you wonder why you get so upset.

Also,carol's story is a hopeful one yes(not the norm either) BUT she plan a'd for a long time and did the 180 list and well it is *risky to make up your own rules as you go along.She was able to withstand his contact all that time(16-18+months) and plan B is designed to help you detach from a WS and their hurtful behavior.Plan B can have the same effects and maybe even better.If he can't see you at all then he will really wonder what you're up to.

I mean didn't you notice a pattern here? Every time your WH made attempts to see,call or e-mail you you ended up getting hurt? And what does he get? A fix and then he walks away,hopping back upon that proverbial fence.

It's like a revolving door in your life.WH floats in, does the damage and back out he goes.If that's not confusing enough for you,how about those kids witnessing it all.You do have 2 kids right?

O

Two kids. 9 and 4. Two beautiful, cute, smart, Godly kids. They are hurting worst of all, and that, pissed me off.

So, how do you go back to Plan B. I mean, I said "don't call me, don't contact me" yadda yadda, and then, everytime he would, I would buckle. I look incredibly stupid. And even seemed to agree with a comment he made that no contact between two parents is unrealistic and harmful to the kids (what irony...he doesn't consider A harmful to the kids???????). So how to I say, no sorry, my bad, I mean it. Really. THIS time. No contact.

I seem like the biggest whimp on earth...how will he not laugh his [censored] off if I come back now and say, ummm...psyche....no contact now, again, really.

Well,it's never too late to get into the plan but YOU have to be the one to stick to it and you do that by having all your ducks in a row and NO going back or you know what? You're as bad as WH is with his indecision.

Ducks in a row mean: have that contact down to an intermediary or like I said before,short,curt e-mails that express no emotion.Change the locks on the door but check with a lawyer first about how to proceed legally so he can't just show up and park himself indoors.Arrange for a ROUTINE with the kids and WH and stick to it.Your kids are going through a very horrible experience.I don't know how much they know(My girls don't know it's infidelity,too disgusting and sordid for them at this age) but they need STABILITY in their lives right now and that means that mom and dad see them when they say they will.If mom is the SAHM then it's up to dad(WH) to make sure he makes them the priority and sees them when scheduled.If any one has to be disappointed it should NOT be them when it comes to time with the parents.Other people can F off,children first.


You have to up the ante here Christy.WH will get the message after you have proven to yourself first that you are in Plan B and you JUST DO IT.

There's more I want to say but I am SO tired and my contacts are sticking to my eyeballs.Ill check back tomorrow.

Good night.

o

ok,just to add on.I remember that you are not a SAHM so even despite that,you and your WH need to put the children first and make sure they are as comfortable as they can be with their newfound situation.Again that means that all parties agree to a routine that benefits the kids.They don't need any more upheaval in their lives so they need to be able to depend on their parents to be there for them when they need them.

If he makes excuses to see OW then he forfits his rights to them on those days he is scheduled to see them so don't let him start coming around and taking them or seeing them when he isn't *scheduled.This will be a preview of things to come should you legally separate or divorce.

My WH thinks that he is going to be able to come and go when he wants and come to the home and spend his time with them here.No way.He is going to have to see them at his place/room and provide for them there,which will be tough but hey,he is the one that has destroyed our happy family life,now he can live with the consequences.

You have to make a deal with yourself Christy that those kids are the most important thing in this whole mess.It can be just as hurtful for your WH to be around them in the state he is in(all WS's are in) than to have him stay away.For example,it is very hard for my girls to see the difficult interaction between my WH and myself when he is here at home rather than when it's just us girls.The tension is high and it weighs on them.I feel bad when my WH is home because I know he doesn't want to work on our marriage,he is going to chuck it all away on the HOPES that things will work out with the homewrecker and it makes my skin crawl.I literally cannot stay in the same room with him.So the kids see this,as much as I try to ignore him,and I can see it hurts their sweet little hearts.It's damaging.GRRRRR. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If you have deadlines to meet and responsibilities at work that require all your saavy skills then doing a Plan B should be a no brainer.You can do it once you are determined not to play WS's game.

O

Octobergirl:

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

I am in a unique situation, that may be a blessing or a curse, where the OW is in India (so the fantasy of it all has a better chance of staying "alive" because they only have e-mail, instant chat, phone calls, fake pen pal crap and never have REAL LIFE TOGETHER). So I fear this will go on and on forever. Reality really has a hard time seeping in under those circumstances.

The kids realy enjoy their time with Dad, and I work really really hard to help foster a healthy relationship between them and their Dad (something he is not working half as hard to do himself, even though it was his choice to move out, his choice to damage the relationship with them, etc.). So I understand your point about the kids. My 9-year old is PISSED about it all (he understands what is going on and is really angry, which is a cover for being deeply hurt) and my 4-year old says, unprompted by me, "My Daddy does not love my mommy....or me....anymore." Of course I instantly correct her and tell her that Daddy loves her no matter what, but, you cannot blame her for having that perspective...if Dad can change how he feels about my Mom and bail on the family, why doesn't that apply to his feelings for me too. Their Dad's half [censored] attempts at reconnecting with them are really transparent, and you don't have to be a genius to see that the man is wrapped up in himself....so completely, that he is of no good to anyone.

Sometimes I wonder if it would be healthier for everyone involved to just end the marriage, so at least we could all adjust, cope, and move on...having some closure on the situation, instead of permanent limbo. Would it hurt less to just chop off you arm in one fell swoop that saw it off a centimeter at a time with a plastic butter knife?

So, I hear you. No more games. I will go to back into a REAL Plan B. I thought maybe I would need to make some kind of announcement or something to WH that this was going to happen again...but I guess action is always more impactful than words.

I've got to wonder if this is why Jesus put the provisions in the bible that this is the one exception that He allows for Divorce. Because this is all insane. Insanely painful. Insane to try and repair this. Insanely selfish. And that out gives you freedom and grace and a clear conscious.

I have lost so much of my perception of him. Now I see him as a selfish, impish, weak, weak, weak little man.

I hear ya Christy.

The homewrecker(HW) in my case lives and schemes in Toronto,Canada and is surrounded by a bunch of cronies that my husband worked with briefly and I am certain are supporting this infidelity in one way or another.SO with this HW 500 miles away from us,it makes it harder in the sense that they too are keeping this pathetic "affair" alive by cell phone calls and e-mails and text messages.Anything the trashy HW can do to keep brainwashing my WH.I feel like this could go on ad nauseam too.

I honestly am afraid for him some times like today.It's bad enough that I have to deal with this infidelity BUT I also have this awful feeling that he is being brainwashed,I really do.I have said all along that my instincts have led me in the right direction from the get go,and it has, but this has me worried.

If you keep remembering that this adultery is like an addiction,and addicts are SICK then that helps me to keep my wits about me and think of my husband being lost inside there somewhere and at times I feel like he comes out and looks for help but gets drawn back in.God.I have never been through such an excrutiatingly painful and nightmarish experience in my whole life.It's like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.I want my husband back because I KNOW that we could have such a better marriage and there is SO much more to be gained from trying to make this marriage work than for him to hope and pretend that it will be better with the HW.He doesn't REALLY know this woman,he thinks he does.He's blinded.He is about to gamble his life,as he knows it,all away.

Anyway,just slip back into to that Plan B without the fanfare,he'll get the message soon enough.Try to find the stillness within you.When I have that I really feel as though God is sitting beside me,helping me through this.

O

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>