Before the A WH and I had NO secrets...We were completely honest with each other and we shared everything. he would tell me everything. We would even share our dreams, our days, etc...Now I feel I am left in the dark most of the time...

HONESTY and SECRECY
I'll address these first as I feel they kinda go hand and hand. We have a gun in the house. My H works a lot of hours at night out of the home and he wanted me to be protected. The gun was never loaded until one day we bought a lock box and we started keeping the LOADED gun in the lock box. OK, well we forgot the combination. Sor for years now this loaded gun has been in the top of our closet untouched. We have tried to find another lockbox with the same combination, but it never would open. We tried to call the manufacturer etc...So here this lockbox sits with the gun in it.

Wednesday H was out doing something on his car and I was sitting in the seat. I opened up the glovebox to get something out that he asked me too when he said

H: "watch out, there is a loaded gun in there"

WHAT??? you know where this is going now!

me: what are you doing with a loaded gun in your car...(not even occuring to me that is OUR loaded gun)

H: I took the lockbox over to D's house so he could break it open.

me: when did you do this?

H: yesteday

me: why

H: I've been wanting to do it for a long time

me: why didnt' you tell me?

H: why do I need to tell you about that? I saw the box and I took it over there?

me: where was I when you did this...I was here the whole time (which means he would have had to sneak it out)

H: I think I am going to take it to the office

me: WHAT? no your not, your going to take it to a pawn shop...I never wanted that gun to begin with.

H: I also took the BB gun to the shed.

me: why didn't you tell me all this

H: I dont have to tell you everything.

whatever

Then that night we had gone to eat dinner before he headed off to the ER somehow we got on the conversation of honesty...cant remember how...But basically he told me he didn't tell me everything, he doesn't feel he NEEDS to tell me everything...

H: well, I dont tell you everything

me: what do you mean

H: well, I do have to talk to OW thru work...you know she pages and I call back and she answers the phone...why should I tell you, so you can get all upset...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

SELFISHNESS

This is a big one, cuz this was such a big problem before the affair and which ultimately led us to the position we were in PRIOR to the affair. he was not meeting my needs at all, so I had the power to cut him off sexually and I did. He has put HIMSELF before ME or the kids for years. and I got sick of it then and I am getting sick of it again. When he first came home, I kinda nudged it off a bit thinking he would settle down, but I am really tired of it. It is starting ti remind me of how we were pre A and bring back many bad memories and feelings of why we were soooo unhappy. I am afraid if he doesn't change NOW, I will lose my will to keep going in a positive direction myself.

for example: We were going to go get something to eat before sons baseball game yesterday. It was 5:00 and we needed to leave at 5:30. he gets a package at 5:10, next thing I know he is on the phone with J asking what he is doing that night. I was furious. He used to do this crap before. I said what are you doing...we are leaving to go eat and then to his game. he says, I didnt know we were going to eat first...

ARGH...antoher thing he did for YEARS. I would tell him something and he would conveniently FORGET I told him. I cant stand that. So he says, well I wnat this think installed. I finally told him that he has got to STOP putting himself ahead of me. it is not fair. He is just doing whatever the hell he wants while I am doing everything I can to SAVE this marriage and CHANGe. whille he is doing everything he did BEFORE the A which made me soooooo unhappy to begin with. I told him we needed to sit down and have a little LONG chat this weekend of what we expect of each other.

I feel we need to get this going. I am starting to feel resentful. and if he does not change or does not even WANT to dchange this is not going to work. I cannto live in a marriage where he is always number one. If we are not doing something to HIS liking, then he is irritable. it is always about HIM.

Please help me with this. I am frustrated and fed up with it. I am starting to lose hope that we will be able to change...although I have changed, if he continues on this path, I will eventualy go back to MY old ways and I dont want that. How do I approach this and get him to do it. He is willing, but how can I make sure he actually DOES it.

Mom...he is being selfish and not honest.

However, go back and read what you wrote about your end of the conversations. They are all about I told him this or that...you are always "telling" him things instead of "talking" about things with him. You BOTH make it all about yourselves!

My H and I did this as well...I was a controlling type personality...was always telling my husband things...

He was a passive agressive and a conflict avoider. Both of us had good communication skills with others but we didn't do so well with each other.

In addition to counseling with SH we also did IC to work on our individual issues and MC to work on our Marriage issues...one of the best things we learned in MC was how to communicate with each other...MB tells you to not LB but doesn't teach you how to do communciate without doing it. MC taught us a technique called mirroring. This taught us how to communicate our feelings to our spouse in a non LB manner and taught the other one how to really "listen"...this was nothing short of miraculous!

You may want to take a look at Dr. Laura's book, "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands".

Has your H and you gone over the policy or rule of Radical Honesty yet? Honesty is high up on my EN list, so I understand your frustration.

Have you looked into the MB weekend. The followup course is valuable. If you can't do that then you can purchase the home study tapes and books. The ones you get with the course are Love Busters and His Needs Your Needs. The Love Busters one my be a good one to start with for you. I suspect that as much as what he is doing is a love buster for you that there are things that you do that are LB's to him...DJ's being one possibility.

Know exactly how you feel...I could have written this post!

The difference between us is that since d-day I've learned that my H has never been honest with me and has been keeping secrets the entire time we've known each other!

Selfishness... you wouldn't even believe the "selfish H" stories I could tell.

I felt the same way as you do now. If he's not going to work on these things then I'm not sticking around.

But don't it expect it to happen right away. It probably won't while your H is going through withdrawal.

My H didn't go through withdrawal but did fight recovery for 7 months after d-day. He had been lying, drinking and cheating for 20 - 40 years and wasn't about to *change*!

Once he stopped fighting recovery, he was open to hearing about my needs of communication, honesty, openness, etc. Of course, AA/IC is helping him overcome the selfishness.

H is working on it. It's hard to make changes to behaviour you've been doing for a while. It's been slow but it is getting better. H needs a lot of positive reinforcement and admiration to keep him going. As he himself has said "I've never had to be or been honest and open in any other personal relationships so it's hard to change".

IMO, I know what you are saying, but I wouldn't push too hard right now. Later, yeah, but not right now.

Good Luck and Take care.

sss

Hi Forever! Can you explain the mirroring technique or point me to a link that explains it? You guys sound just like us. I think i am constantly TELLING him what to do, otherwise he WONT do it. If I dont tell him, he just blows it off. I am tired of always being the one to initiate things. IE: I can be running wild around the house, getting kids dressed ready to go in 5 minutes. What will he be doing..sitting on his butt off in la la land. doesn't get up to help me at all until I say "can you PLEASE help me here" he wont do anything unless I ask him, tell him, or demand it. I dont like doing that...but he WONT take the initiative. he wont NOTICE things that need to be done. Only if it benefits HIMSELF....

I almost feel as though he is still acting this way as a last resort to GET OUT of the marriage. I mean things are going well, sort of. We aren't fighting, but he certaintly hasn't done a thing to change. I know he is still in withdrawal, but I am tired of doing it all.

MOM,

This is what I wrote in Dads thread.
Unfortuantly we will NEVER be number one and the stress of their jobs makes it primal to place them above the marriage.

MOM they DO NOT SEPARATE being a Physician from being a man...they are the same. It comes first.

What you are talking about is being considerate
I have this fight at least once a week.

I found a website James Dobson's focus on the family... It has a WHOLE section on being a physician and a Physician spouse...they even have a magazine (just found it 2 nights ago)
They have great stuff for our H's .
There was one article I think you would REALLY benefit from.

A Non medical W spent the day in the OR with her H to see what pressures and stuff he goes through daily... I think you would benefit from going to the ER with H one evening ( a weekend evening when ts busy).. Being that I have actually worked shifts with my H (before 3 &4) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I already knew...BUT he is still my H
and He still needs to be considered.

AS far as the GUN...that needs to go...now
there is too much turmol in his life for him to have a loaded gun...

Is this J the OW ? if so he is making up excuses

sorry DAD...I worked as an RN for years (licensed for 20). YOU DO NOT have speak to her regarding stupid patient problem...you employee a PA.. have that facility PAGE HIM/HER and the PA can call you and call them back with the order....IT's not like the damn place does not knoe whats going on. They can page you with 911 emergencies ONLY... Tell them this is your new protocol because it interupts you care for patient to get these DUMB pages...

MOM I am going to hold him accountble for that one...HE DOES NOT HAVE TO PERSONALLY ANSWER THOSE PAGES...I dont think YOU should because you are not a medical clinian..BUT his PA CAN take that call for him...YES HE CAN...

NO CONTACT....MEANs NO CONTACT...

He can even PAY a colleague to take call from that Place...there are ways around having to constantly taking to this woman...
HE DOES NOT WANT TO STOP...BOTTOM LINE

Mom as long as he has contact...you will have these distant dishonest feelings...Besides it's the contact that is giving him this extra
I dont have to crap...

Sorry mom...he can make other arrangemnets...But I think you know that...Baby #4 is crying gotta run..

<small>[ April 09, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: StressedOutMom ]</small>

Thanks stillsosad and 4give.

4give...I have ALL the books. As far as going to the MB weekend, I would love to, but I honestly think it is too soon for us. I am hoping there is another one this year. I am not very familiar with the rules yet. I suppose that will come later in our recovery. I think SH will be going over our EN's this next session.

stillsosad. You give me hope. I know it is hard to change after 42 years, but if you want to save something bad enough, I think you HAVE to change...I did it and AM doing it, I think he can too. I know he WANTS to, but CAN he is the question.

Yes, FT, learning new ways to communicate was helpful to us as well. We went on a weekend based on "Getting the Love You Want" book by Harville Hendrix. We found that the skills they taught are also taught by counselors like Gary Smalley, Parrott, and Gottman, I think. Forms of active listening...mirroring. Saying back to the person what you just heard then asking "Did I get that, was there anymore to that? Something along those lines. We went to a Gary Smalley weekend as well as Retrouvaille too...all with hopes of learning to improve our communication skills.
It is difficult when one or both are conflict avoiders.

Our last D-day was in Dec '02 and we went to MB weekend end of March '03.

The Policy of Joint Agreement and the info on Radical Honesty can be printed out from this website.

Mom to boys,
I'm not sure about this but it seems your H hasn't truly turned the corner toward the M. I don't know him or you so I'm speculating based on my addiction to OW & as my wife puts it "waffleing". I'm in individual as well as marriage therapy right now so some things are beginning to come to light. Perhaps your husband, like me needs space, time & help to face himself. He like me might find out some sobering & even sad characteristics about himself he isn't aware of. Anyway this is where I'm at & what concerns me is the time it could take to clear the way to make a total commitment to the M. And if our wives have the patience, which is already stretched thin to wait it out. I'm not condoning waiting it out while we H's continue our A's. One thing I've been able to do is have NC for at least a couple of weeks. But I think about it all the time. I'm only telling you this because your H might be in a similiar state of mind. I have a fear I could lose both W while I'm trying to "find myself". I know this is all speculation on my part but it sounds like your H & I have some similarities. I know my problem is I want to keep all o
ptions open which is selfish & comes from insecurity. I'll tell ya one thing I know FOR SURE; badgering him, making demands & demonizing the OW to your H will set him & your potential healing way back. I know the right things for BS to do seems almost impossible to do but have faith that it will pay off. That's why I'm enduring the pain of withdrawal so far. One more thing; I've found no matter how much despair I'm feeeling when I face my wife & the conversation is productive i feel a lot better & maybe for your H & I that will lead us back to our W's.
God Bless,
OTE

Mom,

There are a lot of similarities I see in your WH and mine.Temporary memory loss at convenient times,selfish behavior,lying by * omission.

My WH and I have been together since we were teens.We were best friends,each other's first loves,etc,etc.As I have looked back on our lives together I have seen that my WH was quite the taker and I was a big giver my whole life.I did a lot of growing in my marriage and on my own but WH was stagnant which is one reason why I think we are dealing with an A now.

WH really was never required to give much because I was always there to pick up the slack.I always did the kids birthday parties,made family plans,cooked, cleaned,baked,did the bills,tried to be attentive to WH,etc.WH was consistently busy the whole time we knew each other,more so after our marriage as he started his own business and worked long hours, meanwhile I was the model wife and mother raising our two daughters.My WH definitely had two lives going on,one as an single guy and one as a married man.He would go out and spend time with friends,go to parties after work(sometimes I would go along but found it really boring when everyone talks shop and have no other interests)etc and then have some resemblence of a family life with me and the girls here and there.All the time I was thinking that we were both sacrificing our time together for the end result,more money and time to be able to spend together and travel in the later years(like now).

I also cut my WH off in the affection department in later years for this routine we had.WH would be busy for hours and days on end,even weekends and then expect ME to be the loving,sexual wife in a Victoria's secret outfit waiting at the door when he came home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Well after feeling rejected and uncared for insidiously and with a WH that gradually stopped his caring and loving gestures,well our sex life became pretty dull and neither one did anything to fix it.He thought I should change and I thought HE should change,both wanting a change for the better but both feeling lost.

We still have this problem now.I am willing and more than able to make our marriage better than ever but WH is still stuck in his routine.He thinks that he doesn't have to do anyhting to make a relationship work,even with the homewrecker.She too will be looking at her watch and wondering when WH will be done with work and have time for her after working all day,seeing the children on weekends(if we separate again or D)and traveling back and forth,etc.He just doesn't get it.ANY realtionship,married or not,takes effort,time and love.

It's a big wonder to me that I didn't have an A but really,I would never.It is just not something I would do.I would rather be unhappy myself than to see my WH and my children unhappy and I guess that's why I stuck it out to this day.When you love someone,their feelings always matter more than your own I think.I found other ways to be happy when I wasn't fulfilled sexually or didn't get the affection I needed or the family committments with WH.

You know,it seems so simple to me.I am a person that realizes that our loved ones are our treasure.It will not take someones death for me to realize what I have.I have always thanked God for my family and their good health.I don't feel like I ever took them for granted,even my WH.We had our moments but I know that I was a loving wife.My WH prefers to rewrite our history and think that we were hardly ever happy.I have so much evidence to the contrary and our families can attest to that.

You and your WH have an opportunity here to make your marriage whatever you want.We all do.I'm not sure what it is that stops us from taking those steps.It is within all of us to make our relationships the best we can ever have but I think some people,WS's in particular,still think that it is other's that can make them happy instead of realizing they have the power and they can't go looking for it elsewhere.It's a fools game.

Anyway,the "moral" of the story is,you may never be able to see the changes in your WH that you want.We can only change ourselves and sometimes I think BS's work so hard on themselves and see that they have so much to offer that they start asking,why am I with this person that continues on this selfish path,thinking of no one's feelings but his/her own,this person that seems stuck.We have so much to give and yet it doesn't seem to matter anymore to our S's.That's where I am now.

I know it's frustrating.I am so saddened that my WH doesn't seem willing or able to make any changes and that he is going to lose what I feel is a very loving wonderful family life.But that's his choice to make.Just like your WH's.Part of our growth is that we have to accept that we may just end up on different journeys,without our spouses.It's a hard pill to swallow and I deal with it every day but it's something I have had to face and I do.

Lastly,is your WH still taking calls from the OW? That's gotta stop or Plan B might be in your future.I may be headed there again myself if not D.And I'm not going to comment on the gun too much.Yes he definitely should have told you about it.It would seem that omissions are now a part of WS's modus operandi.

Ah well,tomorrow is another day.It's hard stuff.Hang in there.

o

Mom,

I would be EXTEMEMLY concerned about a loaded gun lying around. Especially with your 3 boys!

Secondly, in a sense I'm not surprised with your husbands recent behavior. I think he's being passive agressive and acting out.

I don't mean to be accusatory with those statements; it's just that my husband went through similar negativity once he started counseling with SH. You see if you look at it like an addiction - SH is holding your husband accountable for his innappropriate behavior with the affair.

The withdrawal is there - and it feels bad. SH has a way of ending the feelings of euphoria WSs feel during the fantasy/secrecy of the affair.

Understandably they don't like that either. You may not like what I'm about to say, but you need to detach from this. Your H in withdrawal isn't being "who he truly is". You're dealing with someone in the process of healing. You need to give him space and stop REACTING to everything.

You need to focus on you, take responsibility for you and above all stop LBing! You're giving him excuses to behave badly. He can justify it to himself at some level if he feels you deserve it.

I'm hearing disrespectful judgments and angry outbursts from you. That is what you're responsible for eliminating. If you haven't gotten His Needs, Her Needs - do so. It explains in great detail Love Busters, especially subtle ones, that sneak their way into our lives. You're responsible for eliminating them from your behavior REGARDLESS of what you H is or isn't doing.

He's pushing your buttons, and you're letting him. Stop focusing on his behavior and focus on yours instead. Let SH work on your H. Just take notes so you can review them with SH the next time, if you see things that concern you.

One of the basic rules in MB philosophy is avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness. Blessings, CSue

I just want to help and hope that you guys will continue on your recovery. BTW I asked SH if there was another MB weekend this year and he said it would probably be in july 04 and in minneapolis but nothing was finalized yet.

i must qualify what i'm about to say (i'm no expert) and hope you take it in the way it is intended but you have got to stop LB'ing , i think you are pressuring too much and wanting thing to change too soon. time to read his needs/her needs again and talk to SH more if you can to help keep you focused on what YOU need to do NOT what your h should or shouldn't do. Because if you are where you need to be he will follow. especially talk to SH about negotiating in M. continued prayers to you and yours.

OMG...You guys are sooo good..What wonderful advice. I was in the kitchen cleaning up thinking to myself, "I cant wait til he gets home so we can sit down and go over all this stuff that I am so upset about" I wrote down all that I wanted to talk about...everything from getting his PA to take the calls...PERIOD> That will stop. I am not sure what the heck he is so reluctant about. But the phone calls and pages WILL stop to RR NOW. all the way down to his selfishness... Then i come here and <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> So many posts jump out at me...lets see if I can do this right. I am not good with the HTML codes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

From Stressedoutmom:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I found a website James Dobson's focus on the family... It has a WHOLE section on being a physician and a Physician spouse...they even have a magazine (just found it 2 nights ago)
They have great stuff for our H's .
There was one article I think you would REALLY benefit from.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">stressed, can you give me that link?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A Non medical W spent the day in the OR with her H to see what pressures and stuff he goes through daily... I think you would benefit from going to the ER with H one evening </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funy you should mention this..I have been wanting to do this for years. But he works an hour away...which would mean having someone in the house to take care of the kids. Of course OW did this a few times. Left her son at home alone with her mom...TRASH!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is this J the OW ? if so he is making up excuses

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no...J is just the first initial of his friend. I followed him over there, so I know it wasn't to go see OW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> sorry DAD...I worked as an RN for years (licensed for 20). YOU DO NOT have speak to her regarding stupid patient problem...you employee a PA.. have that facility PAGE HIM/HER and the PA can call you and call them back with the order....IT's not like the damn place does not knoe whats going on. They can page you with 911 emergencies ONLY... Tell them this is your new protocol because it interupts you care for patient to get these DUMB pages...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have approached him several times about this. RR is supposed to be calling office during business hours, but they dont, they call him. There is NO REASON they need to page him unless it is after hours. I am going to sit down and go over this with him. If he cant be honest with me about it, his PA will be taking the pages. too bad. He can pay her.

Octobergirl:
Well, this entire post could have been my life stroy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WH really was never required to give much because I was always there to pick up the slack.I always did the kids birthday parties,made family plans,cooked, cleaned,baked,did the bills,tried to be attentive to WH,etc.WH was consistently busy the whole time we knew each other,more so after our marriage as he started his own business and worked long hours, meanwhile I was the model wife and mother raising our two daughters.My WH definitely had two lives going on,one as an single guy and one as a married man.All the time I was thinking that we were both sacrificing our time together for the end result,more money and time to be able to spend together and travel in the later years(like now).

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly my family right here. I am ALWAYS doing everything. H does nothing at home. NOTHING...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know,it seems so simple to me.I am a person that realizes that our loved ones are our treasure.It will not take someones death for me to realize what I have.I have always thanked God for my family and their good health.I don't feel like I ever took them for granted,even my WH.We had our moments but I know that I was a loving wife.My WH prefers to rewrite our history and think that we were hardly ever happy.I have so much evidence to the contrary and our families can attest to that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have always been the giver with anyone. I like to please people...I guess I am a people pleaser if you will. I will sacrifice myself to pelase someone else. I need to be pleased too. And I need it from my H.

CSue:

How do I detach from it when that is all he is doing. I am doing noting but trying my hardest to meet his needs. And he is doing nothing by NOT meeting mine. He is the same way he was PRE A and this is really drawing on my love bank. It is putting angry feeling in me, resentfulness and I am just fed up. I cannot live like this. me being the one to always be doing the giving, etc...

I know I ahve got to STOP the LBing, but I can only take so much.

Help me with a plan for this weekend. Should I sit down and go over POJA or whatever it is...should I sit down and go over a plan for the phone calls. I am certain he is NOT seeing her, but he does talk to her, business supposedly. Please hlep me with what I need to do, otherwise I am going to go thru with what I WANT to which is sit down and demand that he do this and that...and I know I am not supposed to do that.

I am really down right now! What if I put all my energy into doing all this stuff and he WONT change. I know he is capable. EVEYRONE is Capable...but what if he just says screw it, I am not changing. She can accept me this way or no way. OW accepts him THIS way...so why cant she. THIS way is what got is to the OW in the first place. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I just spoke to him and asked him if he was up to talking and he said "sure, we can talk" So we are going to talk about his "plan" and put that on paper. We are going to do our EN's and I want to go over the POJA with him. I think that is very important that we BOTH understand it.

Plese any other advice appreciated. I was going to get the gun out of his car, but he has that car with him right now. Tomorrow I am going to SUGGEST, not demand he take it to the Pawn shop. I do not like guns, never have, never will...I never even held one until I held this one 8 years ago. I am not capable of suicide nor killing anyone, but who knows if he is..I have no idea what is going thru his head right now.

I also saw on the cell phone he spoke to RR for 6 minutes this mroning. Which tells me he was talking to her. I want so badly to ask him about it, but htat would only prove to him that I am not trusting him and checking up on him. I am so confused. I hate this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong>

I also saw on the cell phone he spoke to RR for 6 minutes this mroning. Which tells me he was talking to her. I want so badly to ask him about it, but htat would only prove to him that I am not trusting him and checking up on him. I am so confused. I hate this. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you shouldn't trust him, he is untrustworthy. You should be checking up on him. You shouldn't be pretending here like he is trustworthy, Mom. He has to EARN that trust back. You need to ask him about this.

MOM, I read all your posts. Here is my 2cent opinion.

1. It is not too soon to go to MB weekend. My WH and I are going, we are even not in your position. He still wants a D and seeing OW. He didn't come home from last night till now. He didn't answer my calls. Isn't that worse than where you are now? But I am still hanging in here. Please go if he is willing to.

2. I sense that you want things changed quick. I see that you are putting pressure on him. Everytime you try to educate him or tell him that he did not change or he did not want to work on M is a LB. I can see he IS so willing than many many other WS's here. Please be patient. It took long time to get here, it will take longer to go back. You are climbing up on the spiral slide. It is ok to slide down a little, as long as the trend is up.

3. Please please don't react on his actions. Act on yourself, give him some time and space to work things out. I am not saying his action is right. He knew it. But it takes time for him to break it. Everytime you do that, it give him excuses to justify his action.


When I read OG's description about her WH, I can see so much similarities in my WH. But if we can change ourself, we can see things will be changed. Don't keep in mind that if he will change or not. If he didn't change and leaves, too bad, he miss the goog M and good wife. But you gain a better self.

Mom,

You do still need to keep checking just like Mel said.I mentioned to you in a past response that you cannot afford to let your guard down,not now,it is too soon.

When my WH came home to reconcile and said all the right things,I wasn't about to be blindsided again so I kept snooping.And guess what,I found a secret yahoo account that he was e-mailing the homewrecker.If I didn't play detective and KNOW that it was just not possible for him to be that open and honest still,I could have been sitting here today thinking he was being truthful.Actually that's not entirely true,I picked up signals from WH the second week he was home an KNEW that something wasn't right.I guessed it was contact again and it was.

I also wanted to agree with the other poster(can't remeber who said it) but I'm an RN too and there is no reason for your WH to be in contact with this woman(LVN) if he is truly set on reconciling.He is going to have slip ups but as we all told him on the other thread,he is setting himself up for failure and withdrawal will never happen if they both keep the lines of communication intact.

Really,there is nothing to be confused about.Your WH is still in the throws of an A.Until ALL contact ends and a period of time has passed through withdrawal,not much has changed right? Feeble attempts at reconciliation do not count in my book.I'm sorry if that sounds discouraging but my WH did minor things to portray his supposed return to me only to have that all undermined by his OTHER attempts to keep the A going behind my back.

Just like MC is a waste of time when the A is still ongoing,so are these acts that our WS's do to try and convince us of what THEY want us to believe.If a WS is truly remorseful and really wants the marriage to work,then they have to agree to and abide by the standard that they must be willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES.Getting them there is the hard part.That's what our plans at MB try to establish.

O

<small>[ April 09, 2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

I feel sick. I have this awful feeling today...Something is just NOT right...After viewing that cell phone bill and seeing he talked to the nursing home for 6 minutes...unheard of unless it is a personal call. I asked him to call me WHEN HE LEAVES HIS CLINIC so I know exactly when he will be home...I just called up there and they said he left about 20 minutes ago. He has yet to call me. nursing home is ON HIS WAY HOME and she gets off at 2:00! I am absolutely sick to my stomach.

Should I call him or just wait and see WHEN and IF he calls me and see if he lies to me about anything. Does he think I am stupid.

I call Steve Harley to see if he thought it would benefit us to go to the MB weekend. They are going to call me back.

Hold on. Put yourself together before you act. DON'T LB.

What if this turns out to be nothing, and you react first, you'll regret and you won't be able to take it back.

If you FEEL something is not right...TRUST it...but don't act on it right away.

Let us know how you do.