This will be pretty open...

In a nutshell, my W had a two-night-stand with a total stranger (zero to sex in about 6 hours) seven years ago while on a cruise with her mother. D-day was two months ago.

Here is my problem. The OM was a physical "god" compared to me. I am 6' tall and weight about 290 (260 at time of A). I am average looking other than my weight and have always had self-esteem issues with a certain part of my body. I don't tan well, if at all.

OM had olive skin, a sexy accent, and perfect teeth. He had six-pack abs, a "tight a$$", and was above-average in the pants. He treated my W like a princess those two nights. She says she felt "numb" during the sex, so I guess at least I can be happy with the fact that she didn't have sexual nirvana with him.

{Side note: I guess the equivalent would be as if I had been with a lingerie model (ha ha ha ha ha...makes me laugh just thinking about it). I know my W would be INSANELY jealous in that case.}

I find it hard to deal with this. Since D-day, our sex life has been unbelievably great, better than when we were first married. However, I find myself jealous of this OM's "perfect" body. Any suggestions on how to deal with this?

From a female's point of view -

You should not compare yourself to this fantasy OM. Most women need intimacy to enjoy lovemaking. That is probably why your wife was numb. Believe me, there is nothing better than married love.

And just for your information, the best lovers are not usually the best looking or the biggest. Trust me.

Hello,

7 years was a long time ago. If she wanted to leave you she would have already so you should try not to concentrate on this. I do nevertheless have a little problem with her story. If she was so numb about the sex then why did she do it a second time and putting your health at risk if she was getting nothing from the sex? I don't think the story adds up.

She tells me she doesn't know why she went back the second night. She tells me it is all speculation on her part, but perhaps she *wanted* it to feel good sexually, so she went back to try again -- a self-esteem thing on her part. I'm still not sure she didn't just block out the memory. Perhaps it was good but not great, but she just wants to believe she did not enjoy herself physically (admits total "emotional" enjoyment) to feel less "cheap." I'm not totally sure at this point, but honestly feel she is telling me what she believes to be the truth.

BTW, has anyone thought of hypnotism? I wonder if it would help my W recall things she seems to have forgotten or buried over the last 7 years.

Todd,

I have to agree with Believer on this. OM probably wasn't all that *wonderful*, as those "perfect" types tend to be so into themselves and selfish, there's no room for another human!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I did a similarly stupid thing once when I was young. I wasn't M'd at the time, but it was still incredibly dumb to become intimate w/a total stranger. He was just such eye-candy! I guess I was just curious.

Sorry to say, but she was obviously just another "conquest" to him. Don't focus too much on him. He's long gone............if your "anatomy" bothered her that much, she'd have been gone by now. She's happy with what she's got at home, obviously. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As far as the amazing sex now, it's probably an unconscious attempt on your part to "reclaim your territory." Don't let the feelings of intense love you are feeling at this time for your W die, continue to fill her LB$. This is a very good way to keep your M strong and make it stronger for safe-keeping in the future.

I'm glad she told you, even tho it created a D-Day for you. Secrets like this tend to kill marriages eventually. Keeping it secret must have been eating at her. Be kind to her for her honesty.

God Bless,

Todd, you are looking at this the wrong way. Women are not neccessarily turned on by a hot BOD, like men are, but are turned on by other things, like affection, admiration, etc. THAT is what gets us going. We are not visually stimulated like guys are. We are stimulated through other means.

What you need to be comparing is not your physical appearance, but your ability to meet the needs that sexually stimulate her, such as admiration, affection, etc.

Just to give you an example, my last H was a gorgeous man with an athlete's body. I had no respect or desire for this man because he didn't meet my needs. I could never desire him sexually.

Fast forward to my new H. He is overweight and out of shape with a huge pot belly. His back is saggy. Well, because he meets my needs and I respect him, I have a VORACIOUS desire for him.

See, my desire has very little to do with appearance. That is mostly a male thing.

Here is part of my problem: I know that she would never have gone with the OM to begin with were he not hot-looking. He made her feel great, but she would not have even given a different guy a chance to make her feel great if he were not "eye-candy."

So what I get is this -- "his looks/body are what drew me in, but the way he made me feel is what led to the physical act." I absolutely believe that she would never have slept with him had he treated her poorly. So he treats her well (on the surface) and she gets HOT for him because he has the whole package. Boom -- she is sleeping with him. How can I believe she got so physically worked-up and then (suddenly) didn't enjoy the act itself? She specifically mentioned grabbing his a$$ and pulling him in during sex. She even snuggled with him afterward!

I have tried to put myself in her shoes as best I can. Maybe, being a man, I will never really be able to do this well. Anyway -- I can understand getting horny and hot over a great-looking woman who treats me well. But when I get to the part of sleeping together, I simply can't imagine that I would find it anything but enjoyable. I can completely understand that incredible guilt may follow the sex, but I can't see how that switch suddenly flips at the onset of sex.

I hope I'm making some sense. Maybe I am still seriously questioning her truthfulness regarding the lack of enjoyment more than I am upset about the OM's physical appearance. Then again, I still wish he were the male equivalent of a "skank."

You know, I wouldn't enjoy sex in such a scenario and I am being absolutely honest with you. Most women cannot really enjoy sex with someone with whom they don't have an emotional investment.

She may have been wooed into bed with him, but without that emotional element, like she has with you, it would be like kissing your brother. He was a stranger and she had no attachment. Maybe men can enjoy trysts like that, but typically women cannot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"his looks/body are what drew me in, but the way he made me feel is what led to the physical act." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EXACTLY! I would agree 100% with this.

I truly don't think she is trying to spare your feelings here, Todd, I can relate to everything she says 100%!

<small>[ April 10, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by todd1967:
<strong> Then again, I still wish he were the male equivalent of a "skank." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're not equivalent, you are much more of a man than he is. What kind of a man sleeps with married women? Most women would choose YOU over someone like him, and any woman who would choose him is a shallow numnut.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by todd1967:
<strong> BTW, has anyone thought of hypnotism? I wonder if it would help my W recall things she seems to have forgotten or buried over the last 7 years. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyone?? Is hypnotism an option or have I been watching too many movies? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Why?? lol!

I am Todd's wife and have learned so much from reading through some of these posts. I have found it helpful to have females out there who understand the differences between men and women. It is so hard to explain to Todd that most of the affair was not because of the way OM looked but how he treated me. His looks just helped get me to a bad place. I appreciate the information given as to help Todd understand where I was at the time. His self esteem has really taken a blow since our D day and I am not sure what direction to go to help him (seeing I was the one to demolish any that he had before). I feel because of the "LIE" it is righty hard for him to believe me. I just want so badly for him to know that I want nothing more then to regain his trust. But I know it will take time.

We are healing at a nice pace. Some days are great and others are really rocky but we seem to get through them and understand eachother better.


As far as the hypnotism....it has been 7 years for me and I have put the whole incident out of my mind for many of those years. It is difficult for me to remember details. (and he wants "details")I know that if the roles were reversed that I too would want great detail. It's just I feel like many of the fleeting thoughts and feelings I had at that time are gone due to the length of time and the last thing I want to do is make something up. You see I am in a tough spot. He asks questions that I don't remember the answer to and if I truly can't remember I feel like he thinks I am holding or hiding something when I truly don't remember. I guess this too is a trust issue. I would do hypnotism if I thought it would help and if I knew where to go. I just don't.

Cruise,

With all due respect to Melody and yourself as well as the other ladies, I think you are misinterpreting what is really bothering Todd. So with Todd's permission I would like to put words in his mouth. He is searching for information that you possess. Cruise allow me to quote your first statement. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am Todd's wife and have learned so much from reading through some of these posts. I have found it helpful to have females out there who understand the differences between men and women. It is so hard to explain to Todd that most of the affair was not because of the way OM looked but how he treated me. His looks just helped get me to a bad place.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, if it was NOT his look or his great talents in bed, the real question is why did you violate your marriage vows? You see Todd might get it if it was looks, or his great size in the shorts, or his great technique. He might understand that. Or he might (but I would not) understand that in 6 hours this OM got to know you so well, meet your needs so well, that you were defenseless against his desire to get you in the sack and violate your marriage vows.

You don't seem to understand if there was NO reason for this to happen, how can he protect himself and the marriage? How do you expect him to have self-esteem about this when it appears that if some guy just shuffles by while in a romantic place like a ship, or a dance or cocktail party and blows in your ear, then you are gone.

Do you see what he is searching for? It is a reason, it is a way to protect himself, his marriage, and yes even you from doing this again.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I appreciate the information given as to help Todd understand where I was at the time. His self esteem has really taken a blow since our D day and I am not sure what direction to go to help him (seeing I was the one to demolish any that he had before). I feel because of the "LIE" it is righty hard for him to believe me. I just want so badly for him to know that I want nothing more then to regain his trust. But I know it will take time.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you are right, it will take time, but he needs to understand how the woman he loved and married could do this, and you are offering him no help here. So he will always worry when you are out of sight is this when she will fail me again?? You are fully capable of lying to him he knows that. You are fully capable of pitching your vows overboard, he knows that. I think what he is trying to figure out is what happened and more importantly what has changed to prevent this from happening again. He doesn't feel he is any sexier. His accent has not changed. He isn't not younger.

Do you see the problem now cruise? He is looking for the reason, in an unreasonable act, and the only info you have given him is about the OM's physical appearance, and his behavior. So if that is all that you remember this must be what the issue was. Right???

All reassurances to the contrary he only has the appearance issue and the "package" issue to address because you have offered no other.

If I might ask, what led to this d-day 7 years later? Why were you on a cruise without your H? What were the circumstances of this thing?

Please think about what has been said. I don't know how well I did in putting words in Todd's mouth, but I suspect what he is really struggling with is WHY???

Hope something I said helps.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by todd1967:
<strong> ...In a nutshell, my W had a two-night-stand with a total stranger (zero to sex in about 6 hours) seven years ago while on a cruise with her mother. D-day was two months ago.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where was her mother?

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Todd!! As long as I have been here I've felt like I could only GET advise, not give it! I feel like everyone here knows much more than I do on the subject of rebuilding the M. but THIS is right up my alley!

TRUST me on this! I have had affairs and was with other men prior to marriage, the A partners were bigger than my H.. NO ONE has ever given me an orgasm but my H..HONEST! I'm not saying a woman has to be MARRIED to fully enjoy sex, I'm saying she usually has to be in love. THAT is the TRUTH! I've heard it many times from lots of women..most will fake an orgasm with men they aren't in love with, some have them very easily so they can have them without the emotional connection, but most of us really NEED that emotional connection (real love) in order for sex to be truly enjoyable. It's also about comfort. We are comfortable with our husbands (usually) and better able to let go of our inhibitions or concerns about minor flaws in our bodies. although since his last affair I have had some trouble due to worrying about my body not being what he wants.

Hi,

Just read some of the posts for myself. Todd read them to me this morning (5:00a.m.) while I was still in bed.

To answer a few questions:

JL, Todd does know more of the reasons then I told in my post. I will fill you in on some of them and you tell me if you think I have been completely up front:

1. There had been (up until recently) a lot of control on Todd's part. (although he doesn't see all of it) he has really backed off on this and I am very grateful. Because of this my self worth was really low and I felt my opinion and thoughts did not matter. My own fault I know now, but that is where i was at the time. So our marriage already had some major problems.
2. We were married almost 9 years at the time.
3. I had turned 30 years old in October. A in January. Something clicked in me at 30. Can't explain.
4. We had been through many years of infertility. 2 tubal pregnancies (1991) that rendered me unable to get pregnant on my own.
5. We went through 7 failed invitro- fertilizations and 1 failed adoption. (all before the A took place) This all for a women who wanted nothing more in life than to be a mom.
6. Because of IVF gained ALOT of weight (60+lbs.)and felt disgusting about myself. (I was VERY skinny all of my life until that time)I had just started to loose weight (10 lbs when I went on cruise)
7. Todd was supportive through all of the infertility but I learned to push down all of my feelings because of self preservation. (it all just hurt WAY TOO BADLY) And I just continued to do that with everything else in my life that caused me pain.

Please know that I am not using these as excuses but to let you know where I was at the time. So I feel as though Todd does know the answer to the "WHY" question. I think sometimes he thinks I use these as an excuse and not a reason.

As far as my mom is concerned. We were with another friend of my mom's. They played together while I went out.She did not approve but I was a big girl and she didn't want to control me.

Hope this helps.

I am a school teacher and I have ignored my students. I will try to read responses as the day goes on and answer any questions but it probably won't be until later.
Thanks you for your input.

Cruise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Cruise,

So I have lots of questions for you. First, you have 3 children now, tell us what has happened in your life since the cruise. I would still like to understand how Todd came to know about this. Next, I would like to know what YOU have done to change the dynamics of your marriage so that Todd may feel that the vows you both took mean something to you.

Now some comments on what you posted. I don't know if I was even partially successful in putting words in Todd's mouth, but my major question is what was YOUR reaction when you read what I posted? Did it make sense? Was it far off the mark? Did it make each of you look at things a bit differently?

Ok, I am a lot older than either of you, in fact, you two could be my children if I had had children while in college. So what I am going to say is not a condemnation but an observation. And you will rapidly notice that it is a MALE point of view. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't understand what it is about medical assisted pregnancies, but it seems from my observations it sure does mess up marriages. Perhaps not permenately, but the women involved often seem to just go nuts. I don't know a polite way to say this. My personal experience with friends is about 15 couples and the women either become dictators in the marriage or they just seem to come apart. What I am saying here is that while I read your list of reasons, and understand the words I don't understand the motivations for the individual actions and responses.

I am telling you this because while the list is of reasons you felt bad about yourself, they don't explain going on a cruise with your mother and having sex with what appears from a distance the first man that paid attention to you.

Why am I saying this? Because if Todd is at all like me, he is having the same problem. He understands your words, but he does NOT understand why you chose to act out like this. Yeah! turning 30 is strange, so if 30 affected you like this, watch out for 40, and 50. I am pushing the 60 limit and looking forward to it. But, that is a personal thing.

I don't understand the effects of IVF on a female body so I don't understand the weight issue. I presume Todd understands this part.

You are right about one thing reasons and excuses seem very very similar, but I have noticed that there is one test that can be applied. If it is a reason, then it is something you BOTH can address and change. If it is an excuse Todd cannot do anything to help.

For example turning 30, is NOT something you two can address and work on. You just turn 30 like every human being that has been on this planet that number of years. He cannot address your issue with the weight. He can and apparently he has addressed, Hopefully with you, the control issues.

He could NOT address the issue of the failed pregnancies, but I wonder how you connect that to cheating on your H?

Finally you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">7. Todd was supportive through all of the infertility but I learned to push down all of my feelings because of self preservation. (it all just hurt WAY TOO BADLY) And I just continued to do that with everything else in my life that caused me pain. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you gave yourself permission to have a fling, nevermind what it would do to you, your marriage and your H. That is the one I would worry about. What has changed so that you will NEVER get down again and give yourself permission to do whatever you please.

Even more amazing to me you did it with your mother's knowledge. How does and did your mother feel about this? Has she ever talked with Todd about these events and her feelings? Or does she not care what you did or do to your marriage?

Cruise, I am asking you alot of questions. I realize that they may sound as if I am beating you up about this, but that is NOT the purpose. My guess is that we on this board can ask you questions easier than Todd can because we are anonamous, we are not emotionally involved, and some of us have been reading and posting here a long time. It does not make any of us correct, but I think if you reread what has been posted, this is a journey of SELF DISCOVERY for you and for Todd.

We can simply ask questions and see if they strike a chord, shine light on something important, or cause you to look at something in a different way.

As I asked earlier that is why the method and reasons for Todd to find out 7 years later are important. They give us some idea where you two really are.

If you reread what I have said, I hope I have done something for you. I hope I have illustrated why your "reasons" may not be helping Todd, because he may be like me and NOT understand women and their thinking in the situation surrounding IVF treatment. Hence, he goes back to what he does understand. He may be wrong, but I am not sure you have provided information that has helped him yet. Or to put another way, put the information in a form that he can see the "reasons" as you see and feel them.

I do realize you see his pain, but like me and your issues with pregnancy I wonder if you understand his pain and uncertainty.

Oh! one other thing that you should have learned. You now know why Todd was so controling. He is NOT very confident in himself and that leads to fear and subsequently a desire to control your life.

If you still feel he has that tendency you might want to reflect on the state of his self-esteem and his confidence in himself. Like anger, control is a manifestation of other more primary emotions: fear, uncertainty, pain, etc being the primary drivers.

Ask him what he fears, and I would bet it is losing you.

I don't know if any of this has or will help, but I hope something in this is of use to you and to Todd.

God Bless,

JL

JL, I've been lurking on this board for about 6 mo's now, posting now and then, but mostly reading, trying to figure out why I feel like I do. When I come across your posts, they are the most insiteful / helpful / genuine / gutwrenching / I could go on and on. Anyway, I don't want to know who you are, but what you are? Ie: counslor, psychologist, etc.....

Todd: I don't even know how to answer any of your questions or respond to what you are going through. Little things pop into my head as I read that trigger thing I've heard from my wife. You wrote something like, "she snuggled with him". ARGHHHHHHH I know how you feel. When I snuggle with my wife, I get the feeling of True love and I am wide open to hurt. I trust her up to the point when I realize she snuggled with someone else. Then the wall immediately goes up and the defenses spring into place. I get angry she could have done that with anyone else and worry she will tear me apart. I also get angry she has done something to take that feeling away from me.

Cruz: you need to be open and honest with Todd. Tell him everything, down to the remotest detail. Ie: what did you wear, what did you eat, what did your hair look like, how did he feel, etc...... Down to the simplest thing of did he ever bend down and tie your shoe for you. EVERYTHING. If he asks, he has the right to know!!!!!!! EVERYTHING. Also be spontanious in telling him how great a lover he is, what a wonderful man he is and dote over him like he is a KING and you are not his queen but his servent. He'll get over it and soon you will be his QUEEN again.

Bill

JL,

First of all I need to honest with you and tell you that your challenging me has been eye opening. I do feel like because you are a man it does make it difficult for you to completely understand the whole infertility aspect of who I am. Maybe I can explain how it affected me.

I always knew that if Todd wanted to go off and have a biological family he could. That was never an option for me seeing the problem was me. As a women, that made me feel very incompetent and incomplete. I always grew up wanting to be a mother and for me this was a tramatic blow to me as a women. It affected everything I felt I was here to do. (Besides be a wife)I felt like I was defective. Because of this, coupled with everything else that I wrote about earlier, I had gone down the path of complete self rupture. That is where I was at the time of the A.

You asked about our lives since the cruise. Let me start by saying that Todd questioned me about the OM after the cruise. I had let on that I went out with someone but at that time had led him to believe that we had only kissed. Since the cruise we adopted threee children (Girl-6 and twin boys- almost six) so as you can see we basically have triplets (exactly 5 months apart) and our boys have developmental problems. Life has been a worldwind and Todd was ,for lack of a better way to say it, non-existent in the helping out around the house and with the children (he has gotten better as they have gotten older). But because of that there has been ALOT of resentment toward him. This is not news to him. We talked about it several times and nothing ever changed. So between that and the stress of the children and working part time I just let our relationship suffer. I know now that it was a terrible cycle on both our parts but it was hard for me to see it then. I am sure the fact that I was hiding this "secret" was a much bigger part of the way I was feeling then I really thought. you see I had NO plans to tell him EVER!!

So you ask why now??? Well truth be told he forced my hand. Back at the beginning of Feb. I had had enough. The control, the hateful things being said between us, the lack of help....I was done. I left him and went to my parents house and my dad came to tell him that I was leaving. Well we didn't talk for several days and we both were talking independently to an elder in our church (who by the way is so much better then any MC I've ever heard of...he is changing our hearts and which will in turn change our actions...it's amazing!!)Todd had suspected since the cruise but never really asked again about it. So the first night we meet together with our elder he prepared me that he wanted details and gave me time to figure out what to do. Anyhow long story short we discussed it I think it was two nights later and there it was...there was a huge detail I left off that night and didn't decide to tell him until 3 days later. (why??? I don't know) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You mentioned that I gave myself permission to have a fling...I don't feel like that was it at all. Todd has questioned me several times about my intentions on this cruise. It was a last minute decision to go with my mom (Travel agent) and her out of town friend that was visiting. It never entered my mind, not even for a momemt to have an affair or to spend time with another man. The reason I have not had another affair is because after I felt such a sense of guilt. But more then that, I felt like I was the same as all those "unfaithful" people out there and that was alot for me to handle (being very religious). I am sure that if I felt like I wanted another A I could have. I NEVER allowed myself to be in that situation again and never will. I see how this had destroyed my H's self esteem and ripped out his heart. Not to mention the fact that I am having to re-live all the goorey (sp?) details. (not fun!!)I am not proud at all to be the owner of a broken heart. So many of the problems we had were probably wrapped around the A, we have together made a terrific amount of progress and I feel it is mostly due to the fact that for the first time I am COMPLETELY honest with him with EVERYTHING!! Even if I think it is small. That, I have never been before. Not that I would hide things but never wanted the confrontation that came with sharing those feelings.

My mom didn't think it was a good idea for me to go with the OM but I went anyways and then I proceeded to lie to her about what really happened (she knows now and is very hurt and does blame herself some, which she shouldn't do)

I don't think I agree with your assessment of reasons and excuses. No matter if it something we can work on together or not it is where I was at the time in my head and heart. All of that combined is why I did what I did. Todd may agree with you and your assessment but I feel as a women and having gone through ALL of what I went through that it is not possible for a man to have a TRUE understanding.

You also mention Todd's controlling nature. You think it comes from low self-esteem. I agree to a certain degree but he also grew up in a household where his dad was very controlling (maybe a learned behavior??) Anyways, Todd will be the first person to tell you that you, (anyone) as an adult, make your own choices. He could have changed that if he truly saw the damage it was doing to me and our realtionship.

Anyhow I feel kind of like I babbled alot. You had a lot of questions and comments for me and I wanted to respond to everything. Thank you for your candidness and your questions. They have certainly made me think more and try to have a better understanding where Todd is.

I look forward to your next response!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks again,
Cruise

Cruise,

Thank you for your response. I fear you misunderstand something. What I was trying to do is reflect back to you what your H may be thinking. I fully acknowledge that I don't and won't understand women when it comes to the reproductive process. It has been my observation that women don't understand men any better in this area. So you don't have to defend yourself to me, but I think you need to understand that Todd may not understand either. Hence his feelings it is HIM being compared to OM.

I am guessing as I mentioned to Todd on an much earlier thread that the hiding of the A, did hurt the marriage, and I suspect he withdrew from you as well after that cruise. He suspected something was wrong.

Let me offer you something to consider regarding your children. Again, it is my observation and yes part of my life. When my children were very young, I was NOT involved very much in their lives. Yes, I changed diapers, I did all of the night feedings until they slept through the night, I carried all of the STUFF that go with young children to the care and back. But, really it was my W who was "in charge". However, as they became older, entered school, started to play sports, get ready for college and go to college, I became much more involved. The issues of the kids then were things I knew about and how to handle.

I have one in the hospital right now, my W is there and I am at work, trying to avoid writing a proposal I need to finish tonight along with the taxes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I am not excusing Todd, but you need to realize he is NOT you. Actually, you pointed out something about his upbringing having a pronounced effect on his behavior as an H. Well, it has an affect on other things as well.

So as you two heal, remember he is different, and yes somethings he will not truely understand. He is struggling right now with your A and the apparent casualness of it, because he didn't know what you knew. Even the issue of control you did not adequately express to him, you just left.

It seems to me, you hold things in, and then act to vent, rather than discuss and work through them. This may not be completely valid but you might want to consider it and why you do it if there is some merit in it.

There is a quote that I just love and I repeat it constantly. Here it is </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Resentment is like taking poison, and waiting for the other person to die.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And resentment comes from unrealistic expectations, for that reason Harley came up with the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA. You two need to read it and really ponder it. Frankly, any expectation that is not expressed, or is poorly explained, and NOT agreed on by BOTH parties is an unrealistic one. It is not about He should/She should, or they can. It is about what you two AGREED on.

Do you see the point? We have drifted abit from the purpose of this thread, Todd's deep insecurity with himself and this marriage. You can do a lot to make him secure in the marriage, and I think as you do, he will come to grips with the issues of your affair.

I will say this Cruise, I have read alot here, and this sort of affair is scary, because it is NOT clear what he could have done to prevent it. When I say you gave yourself permission to have it, you apparently went from having NO IDEA of having an affair to being in bed with a man you never met. I can see why Todd is afraid. This is going to require alot of discussion on your part with him. A lot of you two sitting and working TOGETHER to understand this. Oddly he may be able to help you more than you can help him. Let him try if he is willing.

I know you are embarrassed by this, but it is clear it came out because it was very close to the surface with you. It was NOT buried, and it was affecting your marriage, and perhaps even your decision to just leave to get away from the marriage, and perhaps the guilt as well.

You see even you method of leaving is unsettling. He comes home and you and the children are GONE.

Are you seeing a pattern here? I am sensing one. I am glad you two are in counseling, but please consider why you were JUST GONE, because I suspect it is tied to why you JUST HAD THE A. It is how you handle things. If you and Todd can address the JUST GONE, it might help him understand JUST HAD THE A.

I don't know. Just speculation, but maybe it will help you two to view things from a different perspective.

Hope something I have said helps.

God Bless,

JL