My W confessed to the A just days before I left for a training exercise in the desert. Since then I have been thinking about my W and my marriage and am having trouble overcoming building resentment. I am now going from angry, to "it could still work" to "why the hell would I want to trust her again" feelings. I brought a copy of "NOT- just friends" with me and have been reading it. My W sent me an email the other day, and the things she wrote still make me angry. I have not shown anger or expressed it to her. I am dismissing her email as if she is still coming out of the fog. While she does say she is sorry, I get a sense that she still thinks her A was good for her. How the hell does she come up with that. It sometimes makes me want to tell her that her A was the most selfish, trust-breaking act she could have done. Right now, I am not sure I can ever trust her again, and have to ask myself is it worth all this pain and work in the long run. I mourn the fact that I can never fully trust again like before, and will always wonder about her level of commitment. I have include part of her email. Has anyone else heard these same things before?

EMAIL:

I'm fine, mainly because I have been keeping SO INCREDIBLY busy (and also b/c I am choosing to be fine). I have loaded my schedulue with one thing after another, partly as a way to be connected to others, and partly as a way NOT to think about hurtful stuff. You're not the only one who hurts. Although I am deeply sorry that you have been hurt by my decisions over the last 9 months, I did not make any of them with the intent to hurt you. I made them out of my desire to feel better about life, and as a way to expand parts of myself that I have ignored (read: NEED). I have learned invaluable lessons about life, relationships, myself, in spite of the pain. I have probably learned things I might not have learned any other way. I have become a bit jaded, however. And I am really struggling with that.

It's really important for me to have these two weeks alone. And I do mean alone. I am not interacting with S***** Johnson in any way--not by telephone, not in person. He did call 10 days ago to tell me of a job contact. The conversation was business. I don't expect that he will be calling again, as I think he is trying to distance himself from the pain/problems his decisions have caused, as well. So if you're sitting in the desert with fantastic visions of me with someone else, you can erase them--they're illusional.
Or maybe I'm only kidding myself and S****** is just on to someone else who is unattached. Maybe he rethought me and decided I'm not "all that", after all. Maybe he was'is just a [censored] who took advantage of me and told me things i needed to hear. Maybe he is the devil, after all. Maybe I've been such a fool to believe someone else could ever love me with all the fire in their gut. Now am I becoming increasingly insecure of my worthiness? Didn't I get myself here partly because i didn't believe in my worthiness in the eyes of men anyway? Now the lump is in my throat and my eyes are welling up. I've got to stop this line of thinking.
END

When she told me of the A, she said she had fallen "In Love" - to me that is such BS and really makes me angry. She described the OM as a "model". That really helps me feel better about my own "body image" issues. I'm almost sure the OM's wife does not know about the A, and my wife has said before that she doesn't want to do anything to her the OM, his wife and child - how noble of her. Our marriage is in shambles but OM gets a free pass - that seems nuts! Yes am I reading the books, but that doesn't make this any easier - I am mad, mad, mad. Why do I have to be the one who shoulders the burden,goes off to fight in a combat zone and then return to find out my W used the time to "expand" parts of herself. Now I have to shoulder Plan A and rebuild my marriage? Guess I'm just having a bad day/week. Any advice to help get my feeling in check is appreciated.

Apache - I've got one word for you: FOGESE.

Pure and simple.

Some OT'rs will chime here, but I stand firm with fogese.

Hang in there, and keep posting.

- WHB

Apache, you bet we have heard lots of looney stuff like that.........and much worse! It is pretty typical to hear the WS romanticize [read: JUSTIFY] thier affairs so close to the crime with similar irrational hogwash.

The deed is TOO fresh for her look at it rationally. Just wait, though. Once they get some distance in there, it will look mighty different to her and she will laugh at this silly email. This is VERY COMMON so don't let it get you down. She will come out from under the fog!

In the meantime, come on here and fume to US but don't react to her foolishness. If you react to it, she will only defend herself and it will take her longer to see how ridiculous it is to think that one "grows" from an affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Oh brother.

It will get better, Apache, I promise you!

P.S. I would try and notify the OM's wife about this.

I know right now that I'm going thru many emotions. This week the thought of being intimate with her repulses me. I just want to blow up and tell her how hurt I am. I have done a good job at dealing with these feelings until now.

Today, I sat down and tried to make a list of reasons why I want to continue the marriage. Not a good day to do that - couldn't come up with anything positive.

I want to ask A LOT of questions. I feel I have to know everything because my W has kept so much from me and only if she spills all the beans will I have a chance start to trusting her again. How do I deal with what she tells me without LBing?

I know the OM knows I know, but not sure about his W. The question is - is it my place to tell the OM's wife? After having my W tell me that I was right and she was having an A? Is that not a LB now?

apache, yes, it is your place to tell the OM's wife. It is the place of any decent person who knows.

I would ask your W all the questions you want, but just be careful at your reaction. You have to know the answer in order to recover, but you will be angry about it. Are you prepared for the answers?

Apache -

It just makes me so angry that you are having to go through this. It is so unfair. But stick with us and you will get through this. After awhile she will see what she has done to your marriage and your trust.

Right now she is still in the fog. It sounds like the OM is going to stay away from her because he does not want his wife to find out. When you get back, you can decide what to do.

Please stick with the MB program. It does work, and you will feel better in time. Right now please be careful. Trust us that you will get through this and can have a better marriage than before.

apache, there's a good chance that atleast one other person besides your wife and the OM knew about the affair and didn't tell you. What do you think of that person now? I can tell you what I think of the people who knew about my H's affair and didn't tell me! I think they are cold, unfeeling, self absorbed and more concerned about the SLIGHT discomfort that telling me would cause them, than they were the devistation that allowing the affair to continue until it got to the point of him leaving me would cause me.

You owe it to his wife to tell her. Not because you are the BH, because you are a human being and you know about it.

Would you call the police if your neighbor beat his wife? I don't have to tell you that this hurts WORSE than a beating! If she doesn't know what he's doing, he's going to keep doing it until he eventually leaves for someone else, or brings her a disease, or she finds out after much more damage has been done. Tell her because that is THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

If anyone I know is cheating on their spouse they better go to great lengths to keep that from me, because I will tell. It's not an easy thing to do, but it's the human thing to do. I'm not a busy body. For the most part I mind my own business, but his leaving for an OW was the most devistating experience in my life! Because of that I would tell instantly if I was sure someone I knew was cheating, hopefully before it's too late.

I know that OM wife must know the truth - I would want to know, and I know my W's friends from work already knew/highly suspected. Her friends are divorced women who are now single and who have a steady man (or two). They sure didn't tell me. I really feel they have been a bad influence / positive reinforcement of her behavior. She took weekend trips to the beach with them where they stayed in the beach house of one of the women's boyfriends (the boyfriend is also married). My W went to night clubs with her friends and stayed out late (things she is now telling me). She never did these things before. It makes me wonder if there were any other men?? In an email she sent me a while back she mentioned meeting a couple of men.

FROM EMAIL:


As for "another man" and my comments in emails last week: I tend to find "safe" people to associate with, especially if the association takes me in a new direction or stretches my boundaries a bit (comfort zone)--Linda C***** is a case in point. I can go out to new places with her, but she is "safe." The same is true for a couple of men I have met over the last year. They are not available for a serious relationship with me because they are bound to other people. Do not ask for names, circumstances, details, etc. because I will not create potential problems for people who are my friends. What these interactions have provided me is caring, companionship, laughter and friendship. They will continue to do so. They have also caused me to consider that my life didn't have to be without these components. I have seen that there are other people out there who think I am worthwhile. That's why I am insisting that we live apart. I need to know that I am choosing you again. You deserve that assurance, I deserve that secure confirmation, etc. I do think most men are not appealing, but they're not ALL despicable.

My "revenge" side says I should confirm with the OM that I now know what's been going on and also inform his wife - maybe he'll beat me to the punch.

<small>[ April 11, 2004, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: apache03 ]</small>

Your wife is talking nonsense. When you get back, notify the OM's wife, but not from a revenge standpoint. She needs to know what kind of man she is married to.

Don't expect him to tell his wife. My WH told me that OW told her husband. (And by the way, he had just come back from Iraq). It was a big lie. She told her H that they had a friendship relationship. He was completely shocked when I told him the truth.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by apache03:
<strong>

My "revenge" side says I should confirm with the OM that I now know what's been going on and also inform his wife - maybe he'll beat me to the punch. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is unlikely to bust himself, and if he does, he will spin in a way that probably won't resemble the truth. I wouldn't bother calling him at all unless you want to be mocked. It usually isn't pretty. I would just contact his wife and tell her what has happened.

I found your W's email very disconcerting. When did she write this? Before you found out about the affair?

My W wrote this email during the time I was confronting her with what I knew/suspected. It was also after I found a note she had written about being passionately involved with a married man who had a 13 Y/O daughter (a very painful memory day and memory for me).

You were up kinda late last night. Please be careful, and don't let this get to you. Stick with us for awhile, it will really change the way you feel.

I promise you that you WILL start feeling good about life again.

Thanks for your concern, but I am in the middle of a training exercise and usually only get about 4 hrs of sleep a day anyway so I am up late every night - just part of the job.


Just got another email from my W after a phone conversation we had yesterday. Sounds like she is still in the fog and dealing with the loss of the OM (withdrawal).

EMAIL:

I have no idea what your questions might be and I really don't want to hear them. I don't want to deal with any more than I am already dealing with. You sound like you're quoting directly from one of your books by Dr. Harley. I've read through them, and I get his "plan" for rebuilding a marraige. Although a lot of it is dead on the money (and shockingly so), some of his approach still sounds a bit patronizing and fake. I know that you're supposed to be the understanding, non-judgemental one, giving your "wayward spouse" every opportunity to relieve her selfish "addiction" to another. You're supposed to try to meet the 2 or 3 "emotional needs" her other was meeting. Blah, blah,blah...if she keeps messing up then you won't have any love for her anymore and will then know that the marriage must be dissolved.

You still seem to be missing the point. We didn't get to this chasm between us because I developed a relationship with someone else. I allowed myself to develop a relationship with someone else because there was already a chasm between us I thought could not be overcome. I still don't know iF IT CAN. I've been trying very hard to convince myself that we can still make soMETHING NEW and better. I try hard to see us with a bright future, but then the air blows out of my sails and I think it's hopeless. My gut is not there. My head tries to convince, but my heart is not in it. I feel empty except when I "fake" it.

I am terribly upset that Steven's not around these days. Remember why I said I fell for him against the wisdom of others: he made me feel alive. He is fun and boyish and bold. BUT...he is terribly "bad" in the Southern moral sense. He is the exact opposite of you. He doesn't play by the rules. You play by every rule. Because of my own state of mind last summer, and my own rebellion against the suffocating rules of convention, I was drawn to him like a magnet. I didn't care about the shocking inappropriateness of it all (now, sometimes I cringe). Now, nothing. I've been cut off. He realizes the "fantasy" and how current circumstances make anything potentially lasting a complete impossibility. He also doesn't want to destroy his relationship with his daughter (he has been a Mr. Mom for many years) or put Jane in the loony-bin (she expects him to leave her anyway since he's gotten the BIG job-- echoes of her own childhood when her father left her family). I am angry about it, confused, and really sad for everyone of us involved. I know I shouldn't be telling you these feelings, but you keep asking, and this is part of my inner hurt. Now there's nobody. See, you're not here either, and it's not like it would be the same if you were anyway. What is there between us but a big mess of hurt?I'm out of steam now, and I was hoping for a happy day.

END


My greatest concern is MY health after her description of the OM as terribly "bad" in the moral sense. Makes me think he has done this before - makes me think I need to get tested for STDs even though my W and I have been intimate only a few times since my return from deployment. I'll talk to my flight doc about getting the test tonight.

Also, when did it become wrong/undesirable to try and play by the rules and be a dependable and safe husband.

As for the OM, his daughter is going to have issues regardless once she discovers dad is not trustworthy and has done something that could destroy her vision of a family. The OMs wife expecting him to leave because of a new and higher paying job?? That's just BS. I'm sure the OM has told my W many things to justify the A. I doubt that the OM's wife or daughter know about the A at all.

OK, any ideas on where I go from here??

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: apache03 ]</small>

Hmmmm. I wish you could get her to post here. She has the basic idea down. She could get a lot of support here.

It does sound like she is hurting. I wish she could talk to us.

She is definitely going through withdrawal. I would tell her that you love her and married her for life. Ask her to give it 6 months of trying.

I was thinking of you today. I work at Camp Pendleton and was watching the helos go by. Are you in one of the ones with 2 rotors, the big ones, or a smaller one?

Also remember spiderslayers post about flying by the instruments.

Thanks for the thoughts. I will call her tonight. I am in the Arizona desert and am flying the Ah-64 Apache attack helicopter. It is a smaller one whose only job is to attack ground targets. The two rotor one's carry troops and cargo mostly. We always say the difference between the two types is that we kill everything on the outside of the helicopter.

Okay, I get it. Please be careful, and don't worry about all of this until you get back.

Everyone thinks war is so dangerous (and it is), but at Pendleton, we have lost more people in training exercises.

I am very hopeful about your marriage. I hope that you can still take the lead in recovery. I know it sucks, but you are a good, strong man.

Ask your wife if she would at least read here. I think she would be comforted.

Apache, I don't think that she understands what it will take for her marriage to recover. In order for you to recover and move forward, she must answer your questions to your satisfaction. That is the least she can do to help you recover. Does she understand that? Does she understand that she will have to have a hand in repairing the damage she causes?

And yes, the problems in the marriage probably did lead to the conditions that made her vulnerable to an affair, however, it is ludicrous to think that the affair didn't cause much more damage than the preexisting problems and can't be ignored. The fallout from her affair has to be addressed.

I am really bothered by her email because it sounds like she is still committed to the OM and is only taking a break because he dumped her. I would certainly not hide your concerns with her.

I would also make sure that the OMW is notified ASAP AND bring up STD testing to her and the reasons why you think its important. I believe you are probably right, that he is a player who does not know right from wrong and she is adopting this twisted attitude.

I think she knows it will be hard, and that at times it will be painful - but I also she doesn't really want to have to admit to herself that what she did was very wrong. She is always afraid of being judged and cares very much about what other people think. I think she hopes we can just forget about this and call it a rough spot in our marriage. If we do -I also think we will be here again in the future. She doesn't want to have to own up to her affair because it means she is not who she thought she was.
If I had an affair, I can only imagine how angry and hurt she would be and I do think she would LB alot.
I think she is still waiting for Mr. Fantasy Man to come and rescue her - from what - from reality!

Why are women attracted to "players" and "bad boys"??

I've already figured out he is a player and know that in the right circumstances my W is (was) naive enough about men to be played. I have told her this. She has always been someone who does the right thing, plays by the rules and does what she thinks is expected of her. I think while I was away, she decided she wanted to rebel against everything.

I called her tonight and she asked if I had gotten her email, then asked me if what she had written made me mad and made me think she was a bad person. I said that first, at least she was being honest with me and that meant alot. Second, we are not going to get past this without some pain - and yes some things are difficult to hear - but I want to hear them. Third, I do not think she is a bad person, but someone who made a very bad decision which, if not dealt with honestly and directly would cause even greater pain. I said this is a challenge to the character of each of us - and how we deal with it defines "us", me and her.

I would try not to run down the OM directly. I beleive (at least in my case) that W needs to figure that out on her own. If you actively run this guy down, she may just pull farther back, and make her want to go back to him. You can subtlely show this guy's colors, but your W has to think she figured it out on her own.

Apache, like you I am in the military (Navy), and I know the emotions of trust that you are going thru. I am not currently assigned to a ship, but likely will be in the next 1-2 years. I am really concerned about leaving for long periods, as I am sure you are. Try to always leave on a good note, if you leave angry she will be more vulnerable to another man's advances.

I know I will be gone more often these days than prior to 9/11. These days - if you are not just coming back from a deployment, you are preparing to go on another deployment. Some folks have only been home a few months before deploying again.

Don't get me wrong - the deployment didn't create the affair - it just magnified issues which were not resolved and magnified the weakness in our marriage. I know it will take much time to repair my marriage, I just hope I am around long enough to get there.

I'd rather not be married any longer than to have to deploy again knowing my wife will probably do the same thing again.