After thinking about it all day I sent my W the following email. We have talked a little bit about these things, but she sometimes tells me more through email than face to face. Thought I'd give it a try.

Over time, and through much self-study, I have been better able to understand where we are now. I have read more books over the past few months than I have read in a lifetime (I know you're shocked - me reading books). The one I am reading now is called : NOT "Just Friends" by a women named (interestingly enough) Shirley Glass. Have you read "His Needs, Her Needs"? It is the other book I have by Harley. It is not so much "affair" written, but relationship written. I wish I had read these books years ago. Interesting how you can get married and not really be prepared for the things that come with it. I guess that's why most of these books are read by folks who've been married for years, and only after some major upheaval do they start looking for an education in marriage.

I understand what you are saying about the chasm. The two statements are connected, but I don't see where one is the same as the other. Yes, I am very hurt and my trust is totally broken. I am prepared for all of what comes and I know we can still make something new and better and we can have a bright future. I understand what you mean when you say your gut is not there. I think that may be the difference between feelings and decisions. That brings to mind what you told me about the ROPES course years ago. You did not want to do it, your gut told you you did not want to, but your mind made the decision to do it. Afterwards, it was one of the most amazing, rewarding experiences in your life. I think (and hope) that we can overcome our feelings and hurt (using our decisions and minds) to make our marriage one of the most amazing and rewarding experiences of our lives. I know there is a big mess of hurt, but I know it can become a big, stronger than ever, loving, caring relationship

I am commited to working on our marriage, do not want it to end, and would like to just make some small steps at healing. If we both commit to them, then that's a start. Here are some of my questions that I need answered:

Will you commit to working on our marriage?

If so, will you tell/have you told S***** that you've told your husband about your relationship and that it is absolutely over? Will you also tell him that you can never have contact with him again - ever?
I need to know this has happened before I can start to heal and move forward.

Do you think S***** has been as honest with his wife as you have been with me? Do you think he has told her the absolute truth?
I really glad you told me the truth - no matter how painful it was/is to hear.

Are you willing to be totally honest with me about your relationship with S*****, without trying to protect my feelings, in order for us work through this terrible time?

What do you mean when you say Steven is terribly "bad" in the Southern moral sense?

Do you really think I always play by the rules?

Do any of your friends at work suspect / know about the relationship with Steven?

What was it that you said to yourself to allow yourself / give yourself permission to get involved with him?

Wow, I'll stop with these. Even if you answer them all honestly, I don't want to know any more today.

Just one more thing...
I have a great concern (based on the terribly bad comment) and I am seeing my flight doctor (or someone) and getting tested for STDs as soon as possible. I need that for my own sanity and relief. The thought of it scares me to death.

I've tried to write my honest feelings because I need to let you know them. This is where I / we start - I hope.

Love D

Apache,
Your E-mail addresses the issues in a clear and level headed manner. You are doing a great job of keeping your anger out of the words and I applaud you for that.

You deserve the answers to those questions so that you can both honestly make the decision of working on your marriage together.

Her e-mails are filled with concern for herself, she is in withdrawal and is justifying her affair. She says that she did not make the decision to hurt you, she is NOT rational at this point, her decisions are all about herself.

Did you see the doctor for STD testing? I know the military medical staff won't bat an eye at doing it and you MUST protect yourself. Your W should also be tested but she will probably resist. I would not have any physical contact with her until she is tested. my brother died of Aids because of an affair, don't risk it.

I am so sorry that your wife is putting you through this while you are out in training, the timing really stinks. I do think that you are in a better place than before she admitted it though, at least you know what you are fighting. I agree with Melodylane, you need to notify the OM's wife. She deserves to know and you will make him accountable to someone for his own infidelity. Right now, it's still a game to him and he may be a continued interference with your recovery.

I understand that you might see telling her as a LB, it is harsh. The relationship between the OM and his W is not something that your W has any business interfering with and the OM's wife needs to be protected also. I believe that ANY moral person who has knowlegde of an affair has an obligation to reveal it regardless of the pain that might be inflicted. The pain was caused by the affair partners, not the one revealing it. This is a controversial issue for many, but clear cut to me. I wish the MANY people on our base and my H's squadron who knew would have told me about his affiar. They betrayed me also.

I will continue to pray for you, Ladysing

I understand what you are saying about the chasm. The two statements are connected, but I don't see where one is the same as the other.
She said 3 months after I deployed, she believed our marriage was over and could not be repaired. She also said she had it in her mind that I had died and was never coming back.


Here are some of my questions that I need answered:

Will you commit to working on our marriage?
She said she does not know if she can commit to working on our marriage right now mostly because all she sees is pain and hurt.

If so, will you tell/have you told S***** that you've told your husband about your relationship and that it is absolutely over? Will you also tell him that you can never have contact with him again - ever? I need to know this has happened before I can start to heal and move forward.
She said she has not told him this and has not told him she can never have contact with him again – she is not sure she wants to break all contact with him. She did say she hasn’t talked with him in weeks and she is hurting over that. She cannot commit to this right now.

Do you think S***** has been as honest with his wife as you have been with me? Do you think he has told her the absolute truth?

She says she’s pretty sure he hasn’t told his wife because he doesn’t want to hurt his daughter. She also told me, he told her, this is not the first time for him. That many women are attracted to him and he thinks it’s some sort of game. He enjoys the attention.

Are you willing to be totally honest with me about your relationship with S*****, without trying to protect my feelings, in order for us work through this terrible time?

Again, she is not sure, and says there are some things she will never, ever answer.

What do you mean when you say Steven is terribly "bad" in the Southern moral sense?

Again, he doesn’t play by the rules – meaning this is not his first affair and he was a very promiscuous teenager. She wishes she had sewn her wild oats as a teen, but did not.

Do you really think I always play by the rules?

Her answer, Yes, always.

Do any of your friends at work suspect / know about the relationship with Steven?

She says she has not discussed it with them, but a couple have warned her about him. Also, her friends did see her daily interaction with him when they worked together.

What was it that you said to yourself to allow yourself / give yourself permission to get involved with him?

Basically, she said she deserved to be happy and she didn’t think I cared about our relationship. Because I wasn’t around and because my job takes me away from her – just like right now. She also made it a point to tell me that the problems with my parents (she’s had a bad relationship with my mother for years and feels I should have done more to stop it) She expects me to change my parents behavior. She said she deserves better in-laws.


Just one more thing...
I have a great concern (based on the terribly bad comment) and I am seeing my flight doctor (or someone) and getting tested for STDs as soon as possible. I need that for my own sanity and relief. The thought of it scares me to death.

She said she cannot believe this is now her life. She says this is like “Jerry Springer” She said that she is angry/upset that I have talked to my priest, my chaplain, my counselor and now my doctor about her affair.

She ended the call by saying she never wants to see/be around me or my family ever again. Then hung up. I don’t think I LB’d but I think she was trying to pick a fight. She says that she has never seen me as someone who is deep (very superficial), and wonders now how I can be so deep and direct – says she doesn’t know who I am. Wonders why , now, I want to work on my marriage.

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: apache03 ]</small>

apache,
when do you get home?

She is lonely and wallowing in the problems rather than looking for any solutions to your marriage situation.

She is lso greiving the relationship with the OM, she is in withdrawal.

You need to keep contact with her and continue to be supportive. It is possible to work on your marriage but at this point she does not see it, she needs some time.

Keep up your listening skills and don't LB on the phone or by e-mail, it will only make things worse.

When you get back, get IC, ot MC ASAP. She is embarrassed by your talking to your chaplain and doctor but you deserve to have someone help and listen, you were right to go to them! Do not have any physical contact with her until you are both tested, I don't care how much that upsets her, your lives could be at stake!

Please understand that in your position there is not anything else you can do, when you get back you can give it your best shot.

SHE deserves better in-laws? YOU deserve a better wife! Hang in there, Ladysing

Hang in there apache. Your wife does not realize what she has done yet, and may not for awhile.

She may have deep seated problems - the comment about never thinking you would come back from the war shows that. She may have been using an affair as a way to protect herself from loss.

This darn war has caused so much pain and heartache! Stick with us and we will help you through this.

I don't get back home for at least another 10-12 days. I know she is alone this week (she's a teacher and it is Spring Break). Said she was doing things to keep busy and not think about the painful stuff - but I don't see how - I don't think I could go a week without thinking about it.

I tried to call her tonight, but she wouldn't answer the phone (home or cell). I did leave a message and will send her an email later on.

Also thought about sending her some flowers or something - just to say I Love You and care about you. I sent her flowers for V-day, but she just left them on the table, never watered them and let them die. Maybe I'll just send her a cactus this time - Just kidding.

I'm hangin' in there, but I constanly wonder where my responsible, loving and intelligent wife went.

apache, i really like the email you sent her and think you might have awakened her somewhat with your comment about STD's. I think its important to continue to try and pull her into the reality of her situation as you are doing.

I would also urge you to get ahold of the OMW as soon as possible. That will buy you some extra insurance from THAT end that the affair is truly over if he is getting pressure.

I think you did good.

Saw the flight doc again today and he said he will do the test as soon as we return to Ft. Bragg. Said it would take about 3-5 days to get results. So, I got that going for me.

Tried to call my W again, but she isn't answering the phone. I really want to hate her, but I cannot. What I really hate is that decisions have been made which put us in the situation. I hate it that she hurts and I have to stand by and watch, only hoping she will come around.

I also hate that I can't decide if I should tell the OMW. I keep thinking that's a LB. MC asked me how I thought it would help MY relationship to tell OMW. Sounded as if he was saying that since I already new (because of investigating and then W admission) that telling OMW would not help my marriage. I really want to tell, but the fear is that OM may not really care about his marriage (since this is not his 1st A) and it may also drive my W back to him. Who knows, requires more thought. I am fighting the urge to tell simply because of revenge.

I would think long and hard about telling OMW about the A. First of all, what is the benefit to you and your W? If you need to expose the ONGOING affair, then yeah, do it. But if it is over, and there is NC, what do YOU gain? Could cause a huge blowup, possibly even with OMW kicking him out, putting him back on the market, and even available to your W! I don't see the ROI (return on investment) for you on this one. While it appears noble to clue in the OMW, that is b/t OM and OMW. It will be seen as a LB, so why do it? Unless you need to stop the affair, I would leave this alone.

Well, that's what I've been thinking about. Right now my W has not seen OM in weeks, but says she isn't ready to commit to telling OM NC. Seems she is waiting for more contact.

She is not ready to commit to NC with the OM? Why should she? You are gone and his wife does not know about the affair...

As long as he is getting away with the game, he and youe W will probably resume contact.

That is the reason that you should tell the OM's W. It's not all about you, will this help or hurt your marriage? Time will tell. If your helping your W to move past the OM and help her to end contact is a LB and sends her into his arms, then you would not have been able to save it anyway.

YOU are not the bad guy here, as long as there is continued deception and the OM is free to resume the affair with your W, the whole situation is a ticking time bomb.

Your W might be releived if the OM's wife knew about the affair, HE is not going to tell his wife, your wife is not going to tell his W. His wife deserves to know.

I respectfully disagree with anyone who condones covering up infidelity in any way. The truth will set you free.

Apache,
Ironically, there is a thread up now by Kiwi titled: H told OM's W this morning. Take a look at it, she was actually relieved and now she and her H are more of a team in fighting for their marriage.

Continued prayers to you, Ladysing

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by apache03:
[QB]
I also hate that I can't decide if I should tell the OMW. I keep thinking that's a LB. MC asked me how I thought it would help MY relationship to tell OMW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Apache, here is how telling the OP's spouse helps you, it EXPOSES the affair. The more EXPOSED the affair is, the less likely it is to continue. You are missing a HUGE opportunity here by not telling her.

You are covering up for the OM and I am sure he appreciates your help, good buddy.

However, the OMW could put pressure on him from that end to end the affair and KEEP IT ENDED. As it is now, your W is a sitting duck at the MERCY of the OM. She is not ready at all to end it, but when he calls, she will be there for him! If you tell his W, you greatly decrease the odds that he will call to resume the affair because his W will be watching him.

And his wife is very important to him as you know he ended this affair with your W for his marriage. If he does call, it won't be to say sweet nothings, but to express his anger, which will further estrange them.

If he does call to scream about it, your W will have to admit she has been in contact and she can't very well complain about it since there is nothing wrong with the affair in her mind. Really, there is nothing wrong with telling the wife.

Exposure is anathema to affairs. So I don't care what your counselor said, he is wrong. Harley is probably the most successful marriage counselor in the US and he ALWAYS recommends doing everything short of taking out a billboard.

Don't throw away this opportunity, apache. You will come to regret it when the affair resumes.

But that is only PART of the reason you should tell her. You have an obligation, as a decent moral human being, to warn this woman that she is being destroyed behind her back so she can protect herself and her children. You have this moral obligation whether or not it personally benefits you.

Do you help people only if it benefits you in some way? Or do you help people because you are a decent human being that won't sit idly by and watch someone being destroyed? Do you walk away and say "it's not my problem" when you know your neighbor's bookkeeper is embezzling money from him?

C'mon, you are not that kind of guy, are you?

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed man:
<strong> I would think long and hard about telling OMW about the A. First of all, what is the benefit to you and your W? If you need to expose the ONGOING affair, then yeah, do it. But if it is over, and there is NC, what do YOU gain? Could cause a huge blowup, possibly even with OMW kicking him out, putting him back on the market, and even available to your W! I don't see the ROI (return on investment) for you on this one. While it appears noble to clue in the OMW, that is b/t OM and OMW. It will be seen as a LB, so why do it? Unless you need to stop the affair, I would leave this alone. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know what you mean. I saw this little girl get hit by a car today and I asked myself "what benefit is it to me to stop and help?" Since I couldn't find any personal benefit, and not wanting to appear "noble," I drove on by and let the little girl die. Hey, it's not my problem, let that be between her and her parents!

Nobility is so overrated, don't ya think?

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Well I know what kind of man I am - just like my wife said - I play by the rules and do the right thing. What I have been through with this A could be described as shell shock. When a shell explodes right close to you, sometimes it takes a little while before you can gather your thoughts, refocus yourself and decide what to do. But then, you take action.

I know I am going to let OMW know, and quite possibly the OM. I know where they live and work, and I know their phone numbers. I even know everybody's name - including the OM boss. All because of some very good detective work on my part.

The OM even tried to help my W get a job with his company, working on his team, only after his being there a few months. I bet his wife would love to know that. Telling the OMW that would not be to hurt her, but to show her the OM true actions/intent - it is a fact.

I saw this last night on another post and it describes how I have acted/reacted to many issues in my life:

"It is the advantage and the nature of the strong that they can bring crucial issues to the fore and take a clear position regarding them. The weak always have to choose between alternatives that are not their own" (Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison)

That is how I intend to handle this issue!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know what you mean. I saw this little girl get hit by a car today and I asked myself "what benefit is it to me to stop and help?" Since I couldn't find any personal benefit, and not wanting to appear "noble," I drove on by and let the little girl die. Hey, it's not my problem, let that be between her and her parents!

Nobility is so overrated, don't ya think?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">C'mon! Apples and oranges. I was offering advice on how to get thru an incredibly difficult situation, and I do not believe there is a one size fits all scenario here. In my case there is no way to tell the OMW, so maybe that clouded my advice.

Well, I must tell you - your posts have been considered - greatly. I am taking a risk, but this whole A thing has been a teacher. Many times I have vacillated on decisions, and most did not have the tragic results I thought possible. I have followed both my head and my gut. Thanks for your honest opinions - keep 'em coming.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by apache03:
<strong> I saw this last night on another post and it describes how I have acted/reacted to many issues in my life:

"It is the advantage and the nature of the strong that they can bring crucial issues to the fore and take a clear position regarding them. The weak always have to choose between alternatives that are not their own" (Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison)

That is how I intend to handle this issue! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by betrayed man:
C'mon! Apples and oranges. I was offering advice on how to get thru an incredibly difficult situation, and I do not believe there is a one size fits all scenario here. In my case there is no way to tell the OMW, so maybe that clouded my advice. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BT, situations might change, but PRINCIPLES do not or they were not principles at all.

Have you ever heard this saying:

Those who lack courage will always find a philosophy to justify it. ~albert camus