My W and I have been seperated since 07-01-02 physically and have only had sex 2 times, once on 01-01-04 and 02-01-04.
1-1-04 was when we went out of town and stayed in a hotel for new years eve. 02-01-04 was the day after she moved into her own apt after I helped her move there all day (she called me at 3am drunk and horny and we only live 5 miles apart).
On 01-01 after we had sex (both intoxicated) she under her breath said "why do i feel so confused?" she never explained that.
On 02-01 after we had sex she said "you can't stay here cuz I gotta get some rest and you snore" so I left.

I don't know if she has/had an affair(I suspect she did) since we seperated. Be that as it may, I have accepted the fact that she may have but she has to deal with that her own way.

I really want to be physical with my W again (we do a lot for things together still) but the lack of physical intimacy from my wife is really making me crazy.

What I have done since we have been apart is to read and come up with creative ideas that I want to put back into our sexual relationship if we ever have one again. I don't want to completely loose our marriage over lack of sex.

The question is this:

How can I show her that our sexual relationship is something I care about deeply and want to make differences that she would like. She has told me that a good sexual relationship could/would make a HUGE difference in our relationship.

I know that if we were to have sex more often that it will make a big difference.

Her fears are that our sexual relationship will become flat and boring again. I have found Viagra works wonders for me and now I want to show her that I really do passionantely care about the closeness that our sexual feelings can have for one another and in our marriage.

any hints?

<strong>HunterFox: My W and I have been seperated since 07-01-02 physically and have only had sex 2 times, once on 01-01-04 and 02-01-04.
....On 01-01 after we had sex (both intoxicated) she under her breath said "why do i feel so confused?" she never explained that.
On 02-01 after we had sex she said "you can't stay here cuz I gotta get some rest and you snore" so I left.</strong>

Orchid: Confused? About what who she is having sex with? She gets to use you and send you on your way. Do you feel like a ping pong ball?

<strong>HunterFox:I don't know if she has/had an affair(I suspect she did) since we seperated. Be that as it may, I have accepted the fact that she may have but she has to deal with that her own way. .</strong>

Orchid: She probably has had or is having one. When a woman stops having one, depression is often an identifier. Confusion often identifies the A when it is in process. She may have to deal with her handling of the A but you can control how you handle it. Don't lower yourself to her standards and allow her to use you to enable the A. This WS techinque is called cake eating.

<strong>HunterFox:I really want to be physical with my W again (we do a lot for things together still) but the lack of physical intimacy from my wife is really making me crazy.

What I have done since we have been apart is to read and come up with creative ideas that I want to put back into our sexual relationship if we ever have one again. I don't want to completely loose our marriage over lack of sex.

The question is this:
How can I show her that our sexual relationship is something I care about deeply and want to make differences that she would like. She has told me that a good sexual relationship could/would make a HUGE difference in our relationship.

I know that if we were to have sex more often that it will make a big difference. .</strong>

Orchid: Intimacy from your W is a normal feeling, but from a WS it is not normal. Think twice before you allow her to use you like this again.

IMHO you s/b working on marital relationship restoration instead of sexual relationship. Her words sound more like she is interested in sex than marriage. If so, you'd better find out if you want to be an H or a boytoy.

<strong>HunterFox: Her fears are that our sexual relationship will become flat and boring again. I have found Viagra works wonders for me and now I want to show her that I really do passionantely care about the closeness that our sexual feelings can have for one another and in our marriage.

any hints? </strong>

Orchid: The will be flat again. Why? Because sexual R's are only 1 small part of a M. You both sound like you are on different levels of expectations. Read the book His Needs/Her Needs, take the Emotional Needs questionnaire in the Concepts section above. GEt with a good MC familar with MB concepts or even better yet, do some phone counseling with Jennifer @ MB.

Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here but if you put forth the effort, there is a lot to learn.

take care,
L.

If she has/had an affair I know it would have happened as a revenge affair in her mind, she had a slime roomate at the time who totally screwed her up and took advantage of her emotionally and financially. I stood by my W thru it all and had to suck up a lot of crap from both of them. She was so so happy to rid her self of the roommate when she did, she even tells me how terrible it was and I told her "i know, I was there with you and for you even when you didnt want me to be"

Back to my question,
IF she did have an affair or is having one (which I highly doubt she is now), do I have the right to ask or should I try to find out on my own? The bottom line for knowing is that it can affect the outcome of our current seperation, and no matter how it gets colored it's going to affect our son one way or another.

I could easily sit back and watch at 2-3am in the mornings I know she comes home from the bar, but our son would have to be with me sleeping in the car.

<small>[ April 11, 2004, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: HunterFox ]</small>

Do you have the right to know? R U her spouse? If so, yes.

Why wouldn't you have that right?

L.

Then what is the best way to approach this sensitive subject since we are seperated?

By the way, we hang out quite a bit and talk much so I pretty much know her schedule.

She's into this "what I do is my business and what you do is yours" (she doesnt say it with attitude in her voice), one thing she did say to me is "if you have sex with another woman, I just don't want to know about it, it would hurt too much", my response was "yes it would be my business, but I would not do something that would adversly affect our marriage, and quite frankly if we get back together it is not something I would want to be in my mind, I respect you and our marriage to much for that"

Another thing she said during the time of moving and deciding if we should get back together is "if you need the divorce to be with another woman then go ahead and file" I told her "we have been apart for almost 3 years and if I REALLY wanted a divorce I surely would have filed by now". She said "ditto on my part" also "If I wanted to live with you again right now dont you think I would have moved back in by now?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HunterFox:
<strong> Then what is the best way to approach this sensitive subject since we are seperated?

By the way, we hang out quite a bit and talk much so I pretty much know her schedule.

She's into this "what I do is my business and what you do is yours" (she doesnt say it with attitude in her voice), one thing she did say to me is "if you have sex with another woman, I just don't want to know about it, it would hurt too much", my response was "yes it would be my business, but I would not do something that would adversly affect our marriage, and quite frankly if we get back together it is not something I would want to be in my mind, I respect you and our marriage to much for that"

Another thing she said during the time of moving and deciding if we should get back together is "if you need the divorce to be with another woman then go ahead and file" I told her "we have been apart for almost 3 years and if I REALLY wanted a divorce I surely would have filed by now". She said "ditto on my part" also "If I wanted to live with you again right now dont you think I would have moved back in by now?" </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's pretty telling on her part, don't you think? So she knows she is using you and you are allowing it. Who is ok with this arrangement? The next question is why is it being allowed?

She does not appear to be interested in being a W or mother. Your association with her enables her to continue this separation.

What would you say if another person described this same scenario to you?

L.

I really feel that she is confused as to what she wants because of her fears of the past things that caused us to split up in the first place coming back if we were to get back together. I have done a alot of thinking about what I REALLY want frm our marriage and reflecting on what got us to that point.
Don't get me wrong, she is a Great wife and a Great Mom when she doesnt have her head filled with a lot of crap by outside influences.
One thing that is a positive in our relationship is that when we spend time together our bond during that time is strong and positive.

I know her inner most and darkest fear is loosing any possiblity of getting back together and our son, she knows she would loose him without question.

Hunter,

By not being home she is already losing her son. These are critical times for your child this part of his life will not be repeated.

Her acts that keep her away from her family is not going to be hurtful, it already is. How much more damage are you both willing to allow her to make, leaving you and your son in limbo until a final decision is made? I can't see a valid reason for her stubborn stance of not being a true W and mother. Sorry to be so harsh. What she is doing to her family is not right. This is what WS' do in the fog. They say they don't want to hurt their family and then proceede to do exactly that.

JMHO,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> Hunter,

By not being home she is already losing her son. These are critical times for your child this part of his life will not be repeated.

Her acts that keep her away from her family is not going to be hurtful, it already is. How much more damage are you both willing to allow her to make, leaving you and your son in limbo until a final decision is made? I can't see a valid reason for her stubborn stance of not being a true W and mother. Sorry to be so harsh. What she is doing to her family is not right. This is what WS' do in the fog. They say they don't want to hurt their family and then proceede to do exactly that.

JMHO,
L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid, I really do appreciate your responses, thank you.

Let me briefly give you some background.
I was the one who asked for the divorce in the first place, I was overwhelmed by 4 life changing events in the span of 6 -8 months in 2000. 1, being a new parent, 2, moving to a new home. 3, major job change (it took me out of town and home on weekends for 2 months) 4, slowly dying father.
She didn't and still doesnt drive so I had that weight too.
I was having a real rough time of it all and didn't give the attention our marriage should have had. I asked for the divorce in march 2001 and it shattered her world. The next 3 months gave me a lot to think about.

Before we moved back I took 2 trips to FL to secure a job and apt. I got us a 2 bedroom in a real nice complex, I wanted to take care of my family and give us a nice place.

I decided to move our family back to FL. Before we left we had talked about how long we would live together before getting a div, we agreed on 6 months, we would use this time as a "cooling off" period. She was still under the impression that I was adimate about wanting the divorce when I really wasn't.

She went back to work and I immediately had to look for another job because of daycare issues. I couldnt look like I wanted to because someone had to stay with our son, so for the next 6 months I was a stay at home dad. The entire weight of supporting the household fell on her shoulders. I tried to find work after she got home but by that time most places were closed and it was extremely difficult to hunt without anyone willing or helping to watch our child. Several times after work she would go out with new friends when I needed her to be home, watch our child so I could job hunt.

Well, I got a great job 6 months later, found a great daycare and things were getting better for me. She kept staying out later and later and would even stay gone on overnites with friends rather than be home and it was really getting to me and I was getting real angry with her actions, she saw me getting more and more upset with her so she stayed away even more.

She moved out 6 months later (so we had been together for a year). She moved across the street and had a leech for a roommate, this peron actually did more damage to our relationship than we did together.

After she left I moved into a smaller more affordable apt but I really wanted to stay in the one we had so if she decided to come home she would have a place to cme home to, but with the expenses of daycare I had to move to a cheaper place, but it was still across the street in the same complex.

Had I stayed in the apt we had then I know she would have come back and we could have worked on us, afterall we were close enough to.

During this time of seperation I have slowly built my foundation back and now I am in a position to move with my job to another state, she knows that if I go she is going with me.

Now when I tell her about this I know she is going to talk to her friends about it and they are going to try and convince her NOT to go so I am going to have to force her to go for the good of our family and our son.

I know my wife and I know if I provide her a place to come back home to then things will work out for us. 1, because we will be back together and able to work things out like a couple should and she'll be back in her son's life the way she should be.

If you move...you must not force her to go. She needs to see the light herself.

Maybe the distance might do both of you good. 3 years is a long time to wait. I admire your patience. How long do you intend to continue with this type of separation?

Did you ever apologize to her about the divorce thing and maybe make up to her about it? I would be furious if my WH ever said that to me!!!

Did you try counselling?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> If you move...you must not force her to go. She needs to see the light herself.

Maybe the distance might do both of you good. 3 years is a long time to wait. I admire your patience. How long do you intend to continue with this type of separation?

Did you ever apologize to her about the divorce thing and maybe make up to her about it? I would be furious if my WH ever said that to me!!!

Did you try counselling? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Apologize? Yes, many many times, make up yes, counseling? yes

The first thing the counselor said is "this marriage can still be saved" we were doing well but her then roomate stepped in, played on her emotions and then she decided to stop going.

HF,

I read your reasons but it still doesn't justify her actions. Leaving her child to move across the street when her H and child need a W and mother is not acceptable behavior.

There appears to be something much deeper than what you have outlined or her need to be a mother and W is not important to her.

HF, please realize that you do not have to justify her behavior. Her treatment of you and your child should not be condoned. She needs to learn how to be a valuable W and mother. Doing this in addition to the improvements you have made will go to building a healthy family.

Because you have had faults is not an excuse for her to have her turn. How old is she?

L.

She is 30 and I 40.
I want her to be a valuable wife and mother, If I didnt then I would not have stuck by her while she is in her "fog". Heck if I didnt see those things in her before we got married then I certainly would not have married her.

I grew up in a broken home like this and she grew up with 7 brothers and sisters.

I think one of the things that is keeping us apart is that she feels so much guilt for leaving her family like this is that she doesnt know how to deal with it other than make herself numb. Maybe I have her baker acted for her own good before she destroys herself.

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: HunterFox ]</small>

She knows for a while now I have been looking at moving to another state so the other day during lunch I sent her a text message that I had a phone interview and it went well.

I called her tonight and asked her how she felt.
She blew up feeling like I was pushing her into a corner of making a decision to stay or go. She immediately went into "your not taking my kid!!" do I need to take a day off work and go to the court, cause you know you had better not back me into a corner because I will come out fighting and all you are going to do is push me further away. I told her no, I just wanted to let you know what is going on and I want to sit down with you as and ADULT and discuss this with you rationally and maturely as a MARRIED couple. I said I am thinking about the future, thinking about OUR sons future and trying to better our family, if you feel threatend by me looking out for OUR family then I am sorry you feel that way.

It took the wind out of her sails when I told her that. I told her that I understand her concerns and that I want her to feel comfortable enough with me to make such a big move.

In essence what I am doing is doing things opposite than I did before that essentially caused us to be where we are at today, seperated and heading down destructive paths.

I told her "why would I even consider asking you to move with me IF i wasn't serious enough in putting OUR family back together?, I understand your concerns and fears about that".