My H left 4 days ago and said that although he loves me it is better we live seperate lives. I am in Plan B at the moment and would really like to understand what it was that made you try to rebuild your marriage again.

I find it difficult not to speak to H. Did this have an effect on you no contact with your wife.

Let me know

Yes, let us know.

Chestnut & Believer:

First, rethink your attitude about Plan B. It is my understanding that Plan B is not a punishment for the WS, rather it is a protective mode for the BS -- protecting your feelings and love and shielding you from yet another reminder about the A.

A BS goes through enough pain and anguish without voluntary reminders and contact during Plan B is exactly that. It opens the wounds and probably does more damage than good in my opinion.

Confused? I wouldn't be surprised. But what I am about to tell you now will make you think I am more of an odd bird than a lost one. The contact we had during separation probably did more harm in my progress to return than anything else. Let me attempt to explain.

During those periods of silence, I had time to reflect on my M and what was in jeopardy. Interstingly, I best remembered the good stuff, those wonderful times and memories we shared. Then along would come some form of contact. Often it resulted in hurt feelings, some anger and defensive posturing on my part. For me it resulted in negative thoughts and sadly, over shadowed and dashed any progress I had made. Yes, call it being stubborn. Or perhaps, I knew what I was doing was wrong, why do I need to be reminded. So back in the shell I climbed. Further complicating things is that I am a first class conflict avoider.

What brought me back? There wasn't one single thing but perhaps a series of things. I had felt pressured in returning and naturally, that didn't do any good. Some people tried to play the morality card, but that doesn't work -- why would it on someone involved in an A? I know they were appealing to my better nature, but the stubborn side won.

I came back when I wanted to and felt I was best prepared to work on recovery. There wasn't a lightning bolt or anything like that, just a progression of thoughts and feelings. It will take time -- some take longer than others which is certainly evident here on this board. I guess there may be an "average" time, but since all people are unique, so are the circumstances.

Protect yourself and your feelings. My best advice is stay silent. If you need to make contact in the event of an emergency or some extraordinary circumstance, do so through an intermediary -- something recommended my MB. It sure its impact on me when that first happened.

I hope this has helped some. If not, let me know and I will try again.

LB

Wow.

That's all I can say.

I have been sooooooooo reluctant to go to Plan B, and lostbird, you have made it so simple. What you say makes sense.

My WH, too, is a 1st class conflict avoider.

So Plan B is where I should be. Ok. So I know each individual case is different - but how long did it take for YOU to see the light????

And any tell tale signs we should look for that a reunion may be on the horizon???

- WHB

Hi LB,

Sorry to thread jack. I also wanted to know if you felt the need to do things for your BS while in the A. My WH sometimes comes around and does things for us. Like folding my laundry while he was here and carrying it upstairs. Working on a bird feeder outside that he knew I loved. Coming to do the porches and stuff like that. Last week when he came he even burned the trash for me when he was here, emptied the trash out of my truck and stuff like that. Any insight on that kind of stuff at all? Thanks.

NY

Since my H has come home, he has told me everything that Lost Bird has said. When I respected HIS request for limited contact - only kids, finances, only through email, that meant a lot to him.

He needed his space to think and sort out his feelings. He didn't want to come back home just because everyone was telling him to. He wanted to make his own decisions. And he is a conflict avoider, too.

NOTHING that I said to him made a positive difference. It was my silence that spoke volumes to him. First, that I respected his need for space. Second, that I was showing him that I had confidence he could solve these issues on his own without my "help." And third, that it gave him the opportunity to look at me, and notice all the changes I was making in my own life, without him.

H says the day I looked him in the eye and told him I wanted him in my life, but didn't NEED him anymore, was a turning point for him. That is when he began to think about what he could lose, not what he was running away from.

You rock, Lost Bird! H says that it was a series of small things that brought him back. No lightening bolt here, either.

Use these boards and the vets to vent. Leave your H be. I like to think of it as letting them soak in their own juices. When they are done, they will be home.

Lots of love and support!

SS

Lost Bird you almost broke my heart reading your mail. I have felt that I have really lost it not really sticking to Plan B as I should. In fact H came round today to sort out some things for me and take the dogs.

He has been taking time out to think but I don't feel it's about us. our home is up for sale and he came back today and said he did'nt feel a bit like it was home. In fact he is more determinded to buy his fathers house if he can. Which is miles away and not easily commutable for my work. He has not got a job by the way.

The other thing is although he says that the OW is not there I saw there were quite a few new CD's in his car all sultry love titles. Also a parcel arrived for him today at this house he told me there was a web design book but not the other 2 items a DVD which we once wanted to watch and another female blues singer. I could'nt help looking at them and wondered why he had'nt told me.

Of course an LB is mentioning it to him and he felt that I had invaded his privacy. I never ever used to be like this. However my gut feeling is that she's not gone altogether.

I hate this eating me up all he has said is that he does not want to be put in a corner to make a decision and that he has to work himself out first. He says that whatever commitment he makes for the future will be one that he feels 100% will work.

I am letting him take the dogs with him because I feel that I will have to call him up now and again to take them when I have to be away. That for me is not a good way of avoiding all contact.

You are right each time there has been a conversation I am always looking for some word of encouragement which puts him on the spot.

I think I really lost it last night my lowest point I drank a whole bottle of gin. Never in living memory have I done this before and then did a stupid thing and rang on his mobile and left a message at 2.30 in the morning saying I missed his arms around me. Don't you hate yourself for this. But I must look after myself.

The one thing he remembers about me most is my strength and not being needy. This is awful for me too as I know I'm not getting the respect I should. I have made quite a few plans for the up and coming weekends so that I don't hang around here.

What makes me feel awful to is that he has handed his bank and credit cards back that were in joint names and is showing me how to connect up the gas cylinders so I won't be stuck.

I wish there was just some happy pill I could take that would get me through these dark days until I know where I am going.

Lost Bird the thoughts you have expressed here very much reflect some of the things my husband was saying about the contact you had briefly in plan B with BS.

I will try very hard to take note of what you have said and I really wish you and your H an outstanding marriage.

Well tonight I am going to a meditation class, the focus of which is happinness depend on ourselves and our own thoughts. Started it last week so hopefully this will help in the future.

He will be leaving in 1/2 hour so PLan B has to start all over again.

Lost Bird how long were you away before you went back?

Hopeful:

Your situation sounds similar to ours. I have a home office, so I would routinely do the laundry, take care of the trash, clean up and often times do some grocery shopping. I was just being a nice guy -- staying "connected" -- even though I wasn't living at home. I'm sure it was an agonizing reminder for my W. Finally, she asked me to move the office which I did with much regret.

Perhaps your WS is trying to stay connected by doing these things for you. Sometimes that easier than talking but a way of expressing some caring and love for you. I'm one that doesn't like conflict and will avoid it at all costs. Sometimes I think I did those things because I wanted to communicate in some way, without a dreaded confrontation of any kind. Heck, who can argue with having their laundry done, folded and put away which I did weekly.

Just the same, it made it difficult for my BS. She wanted to follow Plan B as close to the letter as possible. She probably gained in peace of mind what she lost with her "laudry/house boy."

Good luck to you. Keep up the faith. Perhaps you can find a way to acknowledge his thoughtfulness. Don't let those deeds go unnoticed -- that could very well be good fodder for the OW to remind him that you don't appreciate the things he does for you.

LB

Lostbird,

I am so confused. ARK said not to make a peep about those things, so I didn't. I never know what I am supposed to do anymore. We were in Plan B and I wasn't home when he did those things. I have really been rotten to him lately. Nasty letters and guilt trips. I am on the rollercoaster ride of my life and I have to get off of it real soon or I am going to get sick.

Please let me know how you would let him know of the thoughtfulness without LBing and causing problems. I cut his hair this week also, that was strange. I packed his dinner one day for work also, he was running late. I am so confused right now. I can't wait to go back into Plan B. One more day! Thanks for your insite.

NY

Hopeful:

I suggest you follow Plan B a bit closer. That means no more cutting his hair, packing meals for work etc. You can communicate through an intermediary on an emergency basis and that may be the best way to let him know that you recognize and appreciate the things he does around the house.

Right now your WS is benefiting from relationships with two women -- with each providing some emotional and pyschological support that he needs. He needs to find those things in one place -- hopefully at home with you.

Read up on Plan B again. Remember, it exists to protect you. I am sure his slipping in and out of your life under these conditions (the A) makes it even harder on you.

LB

Lostbird...i am glad you are still here.

I am in my 10th week of plan B. It is getting better for me.

I believe you are right about acknowleging some of WH thoughfulness and not letting some of those good deeds go unnoticed.

Although my plan B has been sort of strict but i try to implement some compassion here and there in my text messages to him.

Today he mentioned that he has a very bad flu and might not be able to look after DD tomorow night. I text message saying do take care and have a good rest. I could have decided not to mention anything at all but i felt genuine concern for him. I even thought of sending him a sarcastic remark like hmmmm...why? someone not looking after you well enough???... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but i did not.

LB,

I am going to go straight to Plan B. I just have to wait until after tonight is over. There is no one else to help tonight. He is on days this week and he is coming to get his S at 4 and drop him off at 7. When he comes at 7 I am going to tell him that we need to go back to the way it was before the porches had to be done. As long as he is with her I can't talk to him or see him. I really appreciate your insite on all of this though.

I think you are really helping people out. I hate thread jacking chestnuts thread, but I am sure everyone on here learned something from your words. Thanks and I will keep in touch with you, possibly even start my own thread for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

NY

Sorry, I'm just having such a hard time being convinced.

Lost Bird,
It's been 15 mos! If being away from us for this long hasn't moved him to miss us enough to come home....how will less contact work now?
Your W knows my struggle with this. She knows from her own experience how scary it was to have no contact, not know what was going on with a WH, is he moving further away...is it time to D...move on....hold on...
NC is a scary place to be...

I've been in and out of it over the past year...it seems the best progess was actually made when we had "good" contact and were able to make a connection.
That seems to be WH biggest doubt, that we can actually connect again...how is that supposed to happen with NC?

I'm really struggling...I'm Lower than I've been in a long while...

Not sure I have the strength to try NC again or just need to throw in the towel. Oh yeah, I've tried that too....and here I am again...

LB,

I have thought of a couple more questions for you, I hope you don't mind. Chestnut I am so sorry for thread jacking constantly, but you have brought up some great ideas in this thread, we can all learn from it.

Okay my first question is: Did your W change in your eyes during the NC period? Physically, mentally, emotionally? What did you see in the change?

The reason I am asking is because I have changed so much that there are times when I don't want him back. It is of course a rollercoaster ride after all. I have lost 50 lbs, changed my hair color and my mind emotionally, and mentally about everything. I had some sexual abuse issues that I have worked on and am still working on with IC and I am feeling really good about these things now. I feel empowered and confident. I do everything around the house that WH used to do without him and I never ask for help. Can you tell me what you THINK a WH would think about these changes? Also the OW in this case is very homely (ugly), kind of a nasty person, and she is very heavy, I would say around 100 lbs more than me if not more. Do WH see these things? Or is it like Whiteknight said and you don't see these things? It gets pretty confusing for us BS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks,

NY

LB, emergency help please.

I felt so bad since last night. Wh disapppeared again. He didn't come home at all and didn't call me either. I couldn't sleep the whole night last night. Finally I called him today telling him that his action hurt me and the kids a lot. He said that didn't we seperate and you agreed? I was so shocked by what he said. He asked, and I never agreed, I told him that I couldn't control it. All his stuff, not a single item were removed from home. I asked him before what he wanted exactly, he didn't reply me. I asked him again, he said that so let's get a D. I was already numbed. I told him to talk about it tonight when I come home.

Please give me some advice. What is he thinking? Is it final? Did I push to hard? What should I do? I feel like the whole worl collapsed.

Hey HopefulinNY please join in I'm finding it really helpful to get your comments and experiences.

After being thrown crumbs yesterday when he came to mow the lawn and show me how to check my tyres and connect the gas cylinders. I decided enough was enough. I sent him a text cos my daughter wanted help. In the interim I sent him an email
which was my Plan B letter. He should be reading it by now as I told him that he ought to go look.

I feel better for having done this as everything has only been verbal before. Now the real test is
sticking to it for my own self respect. I have tried to remove every obstacle I can so there is no excuse for him to get in touch with me.

I believe when I look back 4 years ago when he had his 1st PA i made it too easy for him to come back. I did,t put a marraige contract in place as Dr Harley would advise and let him get off scott free.

In fact in Dr Dobsons "Love must be tough" he advises us betrayed spouses to immediately take steps to lay down the principles for our on going relationship. It is at that exact moment we have our greatest strength. But I'll bet we all lay down and rolled over to have them back and they got away with it. What Dr. Dobson is trying to say is loose respect for yourself and your partner looses it too.

So no haircutting or hope your cold's better honey
talk!!!

Well this is 1st day of my real PLAN B so better put my money were my mouth is.

What do I hear GOLDEN SILENCE no calls I think he read his email

Message to HopefulinNY,

No they don't notice when you look your most gorgeous when they have OW in mind. I lost about 20 pounds after first A just enough to get me slim again. I'm tall and blonde a bit scandanavian looking but that did not make a blind bit of difference to my H who went off with a small dumpy mousy looking girl 20 years younger than me who was very needy. He did'nt notice one bit nor the beautiful underwear I bought and wore evry day. Now I do it for myself.

So who know what goes on in their minds you should be so proud of yourself that you have made some changes. What you should do is value those
changes for yourself and think how much better
you are because of it. he has the problem not you

Anyway just remind yourself that you are a loving person and that they have just lost out. What goes round comes round remember

My Wh told his mother that he had never seen me looking better last summer when all this BS began. I lost 50lbs and started working out at a gym.

Now, we are going to the gym together & he gets a little jealous that other guys are checking me out. I told him the other night that mu fears were that he thought she was better - looks, body, etc. (Ow is tall & blond - attractive) I'm taller w/ med brown hair, but WH said she van't hold a candle to me - boosted self esteem a bit.

chestnut,

Thanks for letting me jack your thread. This is all very interesting to me also. My WH just left here we had very interesting conversation. It was long and drawn out as the kids kept interrupting. I found out some very good information though. Many feelings were exposed tonight that I didn't know.

Of course he left here and went to her house, so that pretty much ends the whole relationship question.

He did say many things that were very interesting to me. He said he feels like two people one when he is with her and one when he is here and at his moms house. He doesn't know which one he is supposed to be. I asked him which one felt right and he said being here. I asked him which one did he feel more wanted and he said here with us. I asked him where he felt more at home and he said no place. He cried a lot.

I told him how the kids were hurting so much and he needed to speak with DD because she feels left out being that she is not his child. He invited her to go with him to walmart, but she felt sick from nervousness about him coming and did not want to go.

He told me that at least twice a week he thinks about calling me and asking me if there is anyway we can work things out. And he cried when he said it. I am even more confused than before our conversation. He is so lost. He said he doesn't know how he feels anymore. I am done. In the dark now. Thank god. I can't take it anymore. I am moving on and moving forward. I have had enough of the rollercoaster ride. Where is the exit again? Oh yeah Gate B. I will see you there at Gate PB.

NY

^^