OK, I suppose you really don’t need to know how I found out everything so here are the details: DDAY 1, Feb. 13. On March 11 my spidey sense leads me to discover WH and OW sitting in a car at 2:15 a.m. talking about how to work out NC. March 30 we send out our NC letter. March 31 she calls him and they talk. April 1 they meet up and talk some more. April 2 WH and I are at a party where OW shows up and I feel that WH isn’t protecting me or taking care of me. April 5, she comes over to our house and they talk and have sex. April 7, they go out to lunch while WH’s sister is babysitting and not sure how this works, but they have sex in our home that day too. April 9 OW comes over, they have sex and begin to watch the movie “All about Eve” naked when I show up unexpectedly.

We all talk in the living room, all three of us for a while (I never saw them naked, so they had clothes on). She confirms they’ve had sex. When I let her know that WH and I have been having sex too, she seems hurt and betrayed. I tell WH that the lies need to stop now, I need complete honesty. OW says, me too! I tell WH about how he needs to be led by his values not his emotions; that it’s a man principles and beliefs that make him who he is. At the end of the day, it more rewarding to know that you’re doing the right thing. WH says, that’s true. I say that what they’re doing is a sin. OW says she disagrees, WH said, I don’t. She then explained, you need to do what makes you happy because you only have one life to live and if you don’t do what makes you happy then you are just wasting your life. WH then agreed to what she said. Later WH explained that we weren’t listening to what each other had to say. I guess we both had good points. WH was crying on the fence. He loves us both and can’t imagine life without either of us. Our marriage wasn't bad, he thought it was good before OW.

Their only protection was the pill, so I ask her if she has STD’s. She says no and then asks me if I do. Super cute, no? After she leaves I take off my engagement ring but leave on the wedding band, WH can give the family engagement ring to whomever he wants. WH hovers around me all night.

Since DDAY 1 I thought they had an EA that became an EA in early January when they first kissed. Wrong. They kissed in early November shortly after we found out I was pregnant. They had sex for the first time sometime in December. She came to our New Years Eve party. No wonder WH got really drunk that night, I guess she surprised him.

What has happened since Dday 2? I’m not only in ‘save marriage mode’, but I feel like I’m trying to save the soul of my WH.

We go to bed early (after I ask WH to take a shower). Around 4 a.m. I get up, dress, and drive around for a while. When I get home WH opens the door for me and hugs me and I cry.

7:30 a.m. Saturday, with WH’s approval I call OW’s parents (she’s 24 and living at home) and talk to her father. I introduce myself and tell him that my H is having an A with his daughter. I thought she could benefit from talking to an adult who loves her unconditionally rather than her friend #$*&$. HE ALREADY KNOWS. He’s sorry, he thinks it’s wrong, but he cannot control his daughter. He’s told her it’s wrong but she’s an adult. He doesn’t think much of WH (understandable) and thinks my WH should take care of his responsibilities. He’ll talk to her, but…then he says that if my marriage fails, it’s not his daughter’s fault. I then let him know they didn’t use protection and I can’t vouch for the cleanliness of anyone. I think this upset him. We politely say good bye.

At home WH says things like I don’t deserve him, its better if he’s out of my life. He’s not a good person. I told him it’s too late, we’re family. We have a daughter and a child on the way. I tell him that I love him, believe in him, and I’m not going to leave him. He says it’s like he’s trying to destroy our family. He deserves to suffer and have a miserable life. I reminded him he thinks suicide is a wrong and cowardly thing to do, well, this is the next closest thing.

Pastor comes over and we all talk, pastor asks a lot of questions and talks about STDs, maturity, WH’s good qualities and talents, the gift of responsibility. A very serious conversation. WH says that he’s inspired by my love and faith and that he wants to do the right thing. He wants to be a man our children and I deserve and can be proud of. He then smiles a little bit at me and I can almost see a part of the man I fell in love with. Pastor wants us to meet with a counselor friend who was in the seminary and practices faith based counseling, he's trying to get us in to see him this week.

I lay down the following ground rules:
1. 100% honesty, we can’t try to save our marriage if we don’t know what’s going on
2. Daily itineraries for the both of us
3. WH’s cell phone must be on at all times
4. WH will get a new cell phone number. For business purposes he can have a couple of weeks to prepare clients and associates.
5. WH cannot go out for drinks without me
6. WH must only socialize with people who support marriage, specifically our marriage
7. We must go to a professional counselor

Pastor leaves and WH turns to me and smiles. He looks different. He feels that by deciding to do the right thing a terrible weight has been lifted. There are no more secrets and he doesn’t have to worry about lying. It feels good to do the right thing. I can see his spirit peeking out and realize I haven’t seen it for six months. Hello old friend. Good conversations that night, there is clarity and comfort in moving on the right path, we go to bed at 9:30 and sleep, really sleep.

We get through Easter. Last night while lying in bed I ask questions to put together the timeline. I try to not ask too many questions but I probably failed because I need to put together a timeline so I can try to recognize the lying WH with the honest WH. WH gets frustrated and says he needs to sleep, he needs rest so he can deal with OW tomorrow. He’s scared of talking to her. I wake up and starting writing this. It’s 5 a.m. right now and WH just came into the office asking me to come to bed. (We don’t have the internet at home so I’ll copy and paste this in the morning at work.) I shared my opinion that he should talk to OW in front of me or the pastor, especially if he’s scared, to give him strength to end it the right way. Also, this will be the only way for me to know on what terms the relationship ended. He said that’s true, kissed me, and said come to bed.

So I’m scared and nervous, like at the beginning of a race, except I don’t know when the race will start or how long it is. Did the race start on DDay 1 or DDay2 or will it start on Dday 3? Without realizing it I’ve been in Plan A since December, November was almost all about morning sickness. I guess I continue with Plan A? Are we starting at the beginning? Are we starting?

<small>[ April 23, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Loy ]</small>

Loy, if he truly ends the affair, you won't have a need for Plan A. But i would advise that he not ever see the OW again. You need to sit down and write a no contact letter TOGETHER and YOU mail it to her yourself. There is absolutely no need for either of you to see her again. No contact means NO CONTACT. Here are some sample no contact letters:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018918

Thanks for the link of letters. OW and WH didn't have any respect for the first letter. We'll work on a strategy tonight, thinking about scheduling a meeting with SH for Wed morning.

Late this afternoon we recieved a call from Retroville telling us what to expect this weekend and seeing if we were still going. Retroville is not recommended when the A is in progress. I asked H if its appropriate for us to go, he said the A is over. I asked him why is it different this time? Because saving our marraige is the only solution.

Why should I believe him when just 4 days ago he had his di*k in another woman? I did not ask him this question....

Why should I believe him when just 4 days ago he had his di*k in another woman? I did not ask him this question....

But you asked this question of us, correct?

"Why should I believe him when just 4 days ago he had his di*k in another woman?"

Here's my answer.

You shouldn't.

One very wise MBer has said ... "Trust is like a paycheck, not like the lottery. Trust must be earned."

Keep your chin up.

Watch out for any signs of depression. Your unborn needs protection. From stress. From STDs. Tell your OB about your risks.

Right now, I don't care a poop about your H's feelings. I only care about you, your child and your unborn. Love will get you through this.

Trusting and believing the word of your H at this point is a fools game.

Keep your mouth shut as much as possible, and your eyes and ears open.

Pray for serenity and guidance.

Sorry sorry sorry
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Pep

May I suggest eliminating all means by which your hubby can contact OW in secret. For example, have one e-mail account for the both of you, all mail must come to the house, all phone bills must be shown to both parties, and so on. Violation of these rules would be considered betrayal of trust, by definition, even if he never acutally communicated with the OW. A second e-mail account, even if only used to e-mail fishing buddies, would be automatically considered a betrayal of trust since you can no longer verify his behaviors.

You both need these strict rules as 'trust' is not even on the table at this time. Everything he does must be easily and quickly verifiable by you. And visa-versa.

And no longer talk to the OW. She is not worthy to wipe the dust off your shoes. Terminate contact with her and then Erase her from your lives.

She then explained, you need to do what makes you happy because you only have one life to live and if you don’t do what makes you happy then you are just wasting your life.

Spoken like a true narcissist / sociopath.


Her words mean this ..... she gives herself permission to hurt others in order to achieve fulfillment of her desires.

Happiness which is void of empathy for others and honor of the noble self...

... is as temporary as riding in a very fast car. And about as meaningful.

Pep

Originally posted by Loy:

5. WH cannot go out for drinks without me

I think this should be changed to ...

5. No drinking alcohol for WH or BS .

There is no good reason for alcohol to enter recovery.

Pep

Pep:

You are so right about OW. WH actually said that he respects and admires my family whereas the OW's family knew about the A and did nothing. What type of people are they?

I will keep my mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Really, it's probably better for the both of us. He'll have more opportunity to prove himself if my mouth is shut.

I have a call in to my doctor. She knows I've been under stress but its time she knows the magnitude. Also, I will request to be tested for STDs, I can take nothing for granted.

WH just called to check in. Fourth time today, I've checked in with him twice (once driving home to find WH and D still in bed).

I've been were you are at least 4 times in the last 6 weeks. "It's over" "I choose you" "There won't be anymore contact" Each time I foolishly believed him. Just don't be foolish like I was - be prepared. Setbacks are common and you need to have yourself ready to deal with one when/if it comes. And I sincerely hope he means it and you won't have to worry.

The best of luck. Keep us posted.

Loy,

Chere, this is another one of those instances where I hate hate being right....but I have a spidey sense too after all this time...and I've just seen this tragic play acted out over and over again. The "entitlement" attitude that this OW selfishly embraces is sickening considering the circumstances surrounding this affair. Are she and your H working together? If so....that must change as soon as possible....I'm sure now it's just too difficult with the baby on the way. I am again struck by your strength, resolve, and dedication to your marriage. Your husband is right at this point...he doesn't deserve you. I am so very sorry this has gone the way it has. I am also thankful that you are going to see the doctor about being checked out...it's worried me for sometime....but I didn't want to upset you by suggesting again. As for what kind of people do these things.....the world is sometimes a dangerous place chere. I posted a thread on EN about what happened to my sister....equally unexplainable. I am hurting for you....and wish you the very best. I'm also very proud of you Loy...you are a shining example to others who are still struggling.

Loy

You have the most amazing quiet strength, for which your WH should count his blessings.

What a bizarre turn of events. You certainly handled it in a most amazing and calm manner. I am so, so sorry you have had to endure all of this.

Your game plan is right on. One thing you didn't mention is if he fails at one or more of the criteria, do you have in mind some consequences he must pay if he strays from the "rules"? You should give some consideration to that possibility.

Perhaps your WH got to see some "warts" on the OW on Good Friday night. To see and hear her calloused views, that morals really don't matter, or vows, or honesty, hopefully shook some fog out of his head. What a brazen OW!!

Anyway, I've followed your "story" from the start, and I wanted you to know I'm still hoping this all works out for you. Please take care of you and your baby, first and foremost.

Good luck

SD

Loy, this is the 1st time I've heard your story. Wow, you have some amazing guts woman! If I knew my H was having sex in this house, and then I caught him and OW, I don't think I would have been having the controlled conversation you had. You are amazing!

Do whatever you need to do to take care of you and your baby. Hopefully your very stupid, fogged out H will realize what a chump he's been, and how lucky he is to have you. CV

Since our Saturday night conversation with our pastor when WH "said" he wants to save our marriage and family and become the man we deserve Since then WH has been telling me how much better he feels. He feels good about us and that this is the right thing to do. He loves me. Then he asks me how I feel.

I tell him I love him, but I have no way of knowing when he lying or not. I don't know if we're on the road to recovery. The only differences I see are a more content look on his face, a change in his demeanor, and he is always asking me how I am doing and appreciates it when I do things like change daughter's diaper, clean the living room, and compliments such as he likes it when my hair is straight (spontaneous attentiveness is different). His expressions have more energy - like a burden has been lifted.

He's been talking about how to end it with her. I told him I don't care how it's done but there needs to be a witness. When I got home last night WH said, "I feel really good and I'm excited about working on our marriage. I've been thinking about the best way to end it with a witness and I think we should send another letter. A very specific letter how this was wrong and that I love you and want to be with our family. We can mail it together tomorrow." He said something like that. He was going to write the letter today for me to approve and send.

WH checks in on me this morning at work. An hour later he calls back and said he just got a message from OW on his cell phone. She left him a very mad and upset voice mail saying that she never wants to hear from him or see him again in her life. WH feels pretty good about her message. I think he used the word glad.

I'm glad that he had already decided to write a letter on his own, cause frankly I wasn't pushing a NC letter. Why? Because the last one didn't mean anything. I only wanted one to be sent if it would mean something and I don't really know what anything means to WH anymore.

We talked to a guy from Retroville (SP?) yesterday and WH is really looking forward to the weekend. He's mentioned it twice last night.

Pep: I am taking your advice. My eyes and ears are open and I keep my mouth shut. I answer his questions as briefly and politely as possible but I'm not adding anything more right now. Also on the going out for drinks thing, it's WH is in theater and drinks after performances is fairly common. WH only has 1 or 2 drinks, but now he can only go out when he's with me. I don't drink.

Had a dream last night we were in college and WH dumps me for an 800 lbs. woman. I confront him as they approach a stair case. WH was all upset that I cornered him into a conversation because I knew how long it took her to walk up stairs. During our entire talk (which was trying to convince him to come back to me) her labored breathing was in the background like metronome. It was pretty funny, WH thought so too.

Also, I have an appointment with my doctor late this morning.

Ugh,

Loy,keep your guard up.I agree with the other's,you really have to wait and see how this plays out despite what your WH is saying right now.The last time my WH came to me and said the A is over("so over") and told me all these sweet things,I really could have fell for it but something said not yet and so I kept my walls up.

Low and behold,after snooping around,I found a secret yahoo account to which he was e-mailing the homewrecker.It was a very short lived "recovery".My WH sounded SO sincere too,even our counselor believed him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Well my WH had lied,all over again,to ALL of us,two families,our counselor and me.Be wary.Hope for the best but *expect the worst.

O

I am thinking about contacting the OW's friend. She used to date a good friend of ours. This woman already knows everything, so I was thinking she could let me know if they ever resume contact. I don't know, it's an idea.

We are meeting with a pastor who is also a marriage counselor tomorrow. In preparation we've constructed a relationship timeline beginning since last August to get the most of our time with her. WH is adding the A relationship info into the timeline today.

My OB wants me to see a psychologist, appointment in two weeks.

Yesterday WH and I were talking about OW's "break up phone message." WH said OW is blaming him for everything and understands, because nobody wants to believe that they’ve done something wrong or bad. WH said he can't reconcile his actions with what he believes. He knows what he's done is wrong, this is the difference between him and OW.

WH had nightmares all night. I woke him up to stop his yelling once, another time I had to hold him to keep him from moving so much.

WH just called me and I was helping him with some information, and then he started getting frustrated. I told him he should make it a nice experience for people to help him.

WH just called again to see if I wanted to have lunch with him and D. They could pick me up from work. I said that sounded fine.

I am being very reserved and try not to say much right now regarding A. I hope the MC will help.

When I came home I found WH reading dadof3boys long post that I printed up. It’s nice that he’s reading…

Interesting conversation with WH during lunch. I asked him why he feels so much better breaking it off this time than he did when they broke it off in February. He said this time, he knows he can have no life with OW. I asked him if he still believed they could have a life together last week (when they had sex 3 times) and he said yes.

Why doesn't he believe they can have a life together now? WH said he hasn't liked who he was when he was with her. He treated everyone, friends, family, and me badly. He hasn't been a good person to anyone, even OW.

Where is the withdrawal? He still feels good 4 days after his decision to stay. He’s not looking back - yet. Where is this clarity coming from? It must mean something that he makes sense…

But what does it mean?

It seems as if i'm late getting on this train but i'm on it now (your train that is), i guess i don't even know what to say but felt i should type a few things. you had said something about considering counseling w/SH, is that right? yes, absolutely! don't hesitate! even if it's just w/you it will help you so much and help you feel some control. i know how you feel about the OW parents. i was naive to think that the OW's parents in my case didn't know my H was M. the OW is 20, single, and still lives at home w/her parents. last month when i went our house for a week (long story) but i found out their address and went there (didn't tell my H what i was doing) to expose the A. you can read more about what happened under "roughroad needs help w/exposure." under this forum.

long story short, her parents knew (i actually only talk to her mom), didn't think there was anything they could do, said they tried talking to her, they like my H, feel sorry for me, she doesn't want her daughter to get hurt, and asked me not to hurt her daughter. i made it clear when i left that i love my h no matter what and will fight for my M no matter where i live. after i left the OW's mom called her and the OW freaked out (my H's words) and went to his work to tell him. I was on my way to his work when he called me to ask what i had done.

even though i am positive and can't really explain that fully, i can't help but be extremely scared of the road ahead because of what my H's interests are, like yours, theater. my H is extremely talented and has done stuff w/college, local theater, dinner theater, etc. and it's common for them to hang out together as you well know. i had a very stressful job (i'm a nurse and i was active duty) so i didn't go out w/him and i was also embarassed by my weight when i did have the opportunity so i didn't do anything w/him.

well i've lost 33lbs in in about 3 months and try not to worry too much on what problems we could have because hopefully w/the knowledge i have and following the MB we can protect our M, when/if my H wakes out of his fogs and comes back. till then i do one day at a time. do the counseling w/SH and much prayers to you.

Last Monday OW left WH a message on his cell saying that it was over, not to contact her ever again. She was done. (WH had already decided to end their relationship - we were in the process of writing a NC letter when OW sent her own NC voice mail).

We find out today she had a lunch meeting w/ WH's business partner last week, after she "broke up" with WH where she agreed to work on a summer theater production with my WH's company and very much be in the presence of my WH. Appearing on stage with him.

WH called me and asked me how we should handle this situation. He suggested calling OW's confidant saying that OW should not accept this role. I agreed, emphasizing that he shouldn't mention anything about OW and if he could mention that he's dedicated to working on our marriage. I told him that every time I'll see OW's friend I’ll think, she knows my WH doesn't love his wife. WH then said, I do love my wife.

WH called OW's friend and said it's cruel to me for them to work on a project together and that its a bad idea all around. Confidant agrees and will talk to OW. Developing....

OW says she doesn't want ever see WH again and then purposefully chooses to be in a situation where they would see a lot of each other. What? I am hoping her actions will reveal more of her true intentions and character to WH.

Loy,

The responsibility to make this right is your husband's....NOT hers. Your husband should back out of the production. It does several things: It shows you his commitment to your marriage. It shows her that he is serious about no contact. It shows that his priorities are in the right place...his marriage is more important than a production. It shows the community that intends on putting his marriage first. It shows that he is man enough to clean up his own mess instead of expecting a silly girl to do it for him. It shows the maturity that it will take to raise that baby you are carrying. Why would you accept any LESS??? Don't.