Hi all,
I have been married for 7 yrs, this is my second marriage-my ex was so abusive and cheated on me with a good friend-the best thing I ever did was leave him even though we had a little firl at the time and I was scared to death- I met me current husband when my divorce was almost final, I had been seperated for almost a yr and my family and friends encouraged me to rejoin the land of the living- I felt that way too, but I was just scared- finally I did and I met my current husband- he was very understanding of my life and accepted me and my daughter, even though I tried to scare him away with the divorce, kid baggage etc- he said he would wait 4 me to get my head together- I did- I realized I was in love with him-fast forward to 5 yrs ago- we had been married for 2 yrs- his father was diagnosed with terminal cancer- my husband fell apart- he totally pushed me out of his life- it left me with no choice but to move out temporarily until he could deal w/ things. he finally came around and realized that he needed to get it together and accept what was going on- he could not change it etc. Fast forward 6 months ago- he was promoted in his job, he was not sure of himself- I found out by accident that he had a 21 yr old girl calling his cell and text messaging him-to the point of being obssessive- we are both 34- this brought up the feelings that I had with my ex- I felt betrayed etc- he insistantly tells me that they are just friends- I have even threatened her twice and she says they are just friends and I have the problem- it has gotten so bad at times that I obssess over it to the point where I push him away- he keeps telling me that no matter how I ask the questions, the answers will not change- if he didn't want to be with me -he would have left already- he says to just stop- stop analyzing etc. He has told me that he is not happy with his life, when I ask if its me- he says I am perfect- it is him who has the problems- he says he does not know where heshould be in his life, if he should be married or not- he loves me- but is not sure if he is in love with me etc- I am living as if my whole world came crashing down and I am unable to deal with all the pain in my heart- he has no sexual drive- he goes through period of depressive days- he admits to having issues from childhood that he never dealt with- I can't imagine him having and affair- I just don't know what to think- he has told his bf and my mil that he is just friends with her- he says no matter what he says- it is not good enough for me- he just can't win, no matter what he says etc- he says I compare him to my ex and he is not like him- he says I am trying to find anything to make something out of this when there is nothing going on- he lfet his job there- removed himself fro mthe situation- I know that is a start- I am just so overwhelmed with this whole thing that I don't like myself- he is in Florida now visiting his mom- she and I have talked about counseling to him- he knows he needs it- it is just getting himself to the point that he will go- he says nobody can help him- and talking to a stranger doesn't seem like it could help- I love him- for the past 12 yrs we have had alot of bumps in the road- but this whole girl thing is new and it scares me- he told her 2 weeks ago to stop all contact w/ him- but the other night she text him just to say hi- he erased it , and shut off his phone- she has a history of doing this before- I am afraid she is still contacting him and I cannot compete with a young girl- our friends say he is not that stupid to throw away all that we have in life- what is it then???? Am I crazy? Why do I feel this way???Should I keep my distance- let him know I am there and hope that he gets whatever out of his system and picks me- What can I do- I in my heart don't think he cheated- but I feel there there was some emotional connection, and I feel betrayed in some ways because it takes away from our intimacy. Any suggestions?????

He is having an emotional affair at best, a physical/emotional affair at worst. At least he has come to his senses and realized that it was not worth losing his marriage over. Many do deny, deny, deny but it all means nothing. Is she were truly his friend she wouldn't be interfering with a man's marriage.

I realize you have a serious problem here and I am not sure what has led him to this. There is some need that is not getting met in the marriage that compels him to reach outside of his marriage. He should be getting these needs met in his marriage instead of looking outside.

What need do you think this girl met for him?

How has your marriage really been? Does your H feel admired and loved at home? Do you meet his need for sex?

See, I think if we explore this and pinpoint what has happened, it will help you in a Plan A. Because I think you need to do Plan A, which is a plan designed to attract him back into the marriage by showing him your best side. It means NO lovebusters [angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, etc] and doing your best to meet his needs.

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Josie,
I have to agree with ML. Wayward Spouses pretty much all follow the same script. He definately connected in a way inappropriate for his marriage.

He seems to have begun necessary steps to return to the marriage. Like ML said...start reading here..you'll find so much you can relate to..and a lot of help and support.

It may help to tell your H, that regardless of the answers he gives you, whether it was a EA or a PA, it was still inappropriate to your marriage.

He was in FOG...and still sounds like he is...so keep reading...you'll see how to get the fog to lift.

You found a good place. We'll be here for you.

Hey,
I have been trying to get a handle on what it might be- his sex drive is non existant- I am the one who initiates sex most of the time- he has gone to the dr to be tested- the dr thinks it is a psych problem- he has alot of issues in childhood- alot of which he definitely has not addressed- his parents divorced when he was 7- he was left alone alot with his sis who was 4 yrs older- hekeeps saying that it is not the way he was raised, to be affectionate- although he is at times and it is sooo nice- but his mom found a newfound freedom with divorce and there were times my husband told me that she would bring men home and shut the door- he knew what was going on- I think my husband after talking to a few people, has a rescue complex- he is very good with helping people with bad situations particularly women- the gf before me was in the same divorce situation ,but just verbal no physical abuse- people who know him have told me that he will listen to all your problems- but he offers nothing about his feelings or life- the friendship is very one sided- I don't know if he feels good to help someone who is going through something- I am very confident and independent- I am outgoing and capable of handling and fixing problems- I don't know if he feels like I don't need him or what- I reassure and reaffirm my love constantly and I am always there intimately- he says he is very attracted to me- he has said he does like sex- but he is uncomfortable- but he can't explain it- he is far fro mthe type who would cheat as he would rather leave me than do that to me- he is upset w/ me because I can't let it go w this girl- I keep harping on it and he has said he can't win no matter what- he gets so frustrated and upset- I do too- it is horrible feeling like this- then it subsides and when I try to to discuss it after things cool down- he tells me to let it go- to stop the analysis and take it one day at a time....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by josie426:
<strong> but he can't explain it- he is far fro mthe type who would cheat as he would rather leave me than do that to me- he is upset w/ me because I can't let it go w this girl-</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But has he let it go? Has he ended contact? Especially when he knows how much it hurts you? That is terribly disturbing that he would continue a relationship outside of the marriage not caring how much it hurt you.

I also wonder, if she was just a "friend," how many times did he invite her over for dinner with the family? How often did he call her from your house in front of you? A friendship doesn't require secrecy.

If he is a rescuer, one of his top needs is probably ADMIRATION. That is probably what attracted him to her. He loves to rescue women and earn their admiration. I don't know that deep physcological problems led to all this, I suspect it is much simpler than that. Most men don't share their feelings, it is not a sign of mental illness, that is just how they are wired.

Josie, I would run out and get 2 really good books that might help you tremendously, Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley and His Needs/Her Needs. They could be a great help in helping you figure out what has happened here.

Melody-
I have his/her needs- I have read it and I caught him reading some of it too- do I feel like he has stopped it with her- I have been told by him that he told her that he wants her to stop calling him and that was the one reason why he left his job- because it was too much for me- right now I feel like he is feeling out of sorts- because he knows he has to deal with his issues and even though he knows that- it is getting himself to that point that is hard- he puts alot of pressure on himself- this girl however is another story- I told him to think about it- he is 34 , her manager and he is paying attention to her for whatever reason- 21 yr old girl has nothing to lose- she thinks he would leave me for her- who knows- but all I can do is stop harping on it- which I keep doing even when I try not to- it is so hard- and it hurts so bad..

Josie, I really think y'all need to be in marriage counseling. There is much more going on here than to what he is alluding. And you KNOW IT. That is why you can't give it up. You will not be able to heal until he tells you the truth.

You WILL harp on it until you know the truth. And you should. You have every right to know what has happened, Josie. This is YOUR life and he is withholding facts about your life. That is cruel and manipulative. I am posting a link I would like you to consider.

You will find out sooner or later. So he can give up now or he can give it up later, it's going to come out. But the longer he waits, the less chance you will ever have of recovery, because he is compounding the crime by adding LYING to the mix.

See, honesty is the ANECDOTE to adultery. Without honesty, it only means that he and the OW have a secret to which you are NOT privy. You will never be able to regain trust as long as that is the case and as long as he continues to lie about the real nature of his affair.


Secondly, he is depressed and withdrawn, I suspect, not because of childhood problems, but because he is in WITHDRAWAL. He has all the signs of a spouse withdrawing from an affair.

Here is what Harley says about it:
“From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair.

How the victimized spouse should respond to the revelation of an affair is a subject of a later column. I do not have the space to treat it here. But a spouse is twice victimized when he or she is lied to about an affair. Truth is far easier to handle than lies.”

Melody,
I definitely think the withdrawl from this girl is there- but I am unsure of the nature of the relationship, not because I am stupid, hell,I went through this before- I remember what it feels like- but because of what he says- he assumed that considering what I went through before-he knew no matter what that I would automatically think the worst- I did- I am predictable that way- but it is expectd from a wife to have a certain admiration from your wife- so when someone gives you that feeling- other than your spouse, it builds your ego- he has always been a shy, kind of uncertain person, I balance him out, bring him out of his shell- he flat out has told me as well as his bf and mom that he has no romantic feelings for anyone but me-he keeps saying he feels like he cannot live up to what everyone around him thinks he is- I am still trying to wrap my mind around that statement- he has always done stupid thing, i.e money and credit cards he just doesn't pay- he always tries to just hope that a problem goes away instead of dealing with it and he has some very clear cut avoidance issues- when we met w/ my counselor- she got him to open up about some things I did not know- he got scared- because he had to feel- he does not like that- he does not open up like normal people do- he is very closed.

Melody-
How can I if I constantly ask him the same questions over and over- the answers are still the exact same- he feels like he is beating me over the head with same answers to the questions I keep asking in 25 differnt ways- he asked me the other day - do you want me to admit to you something that has not, and will not ever happen- because I won't... you are looking to satisy yourself with something that someone else has done to you- and that is not me- he admits that this girl might feel that way- without coming out and telling him- but he does not feel that way for her- maybe I am putting too much emphasis on the past-
I buried all those feelings so long ago- but maybe I did not deal with them the way I should have- my therapist said that there will be no answer that he could give me that would satisfy me at this point- she is right- because no matter what- if he did or didn't- we can only go forward at this point.

Josie, I wouldn't ask the same questions. I would just print out the column I posted from Steve Harley and show him that. Convince him that you know there is more and that he is hurting you much worse by not telling you.

I think you are asking these questions because you have an instinct that there is more to the story.

And I do believe, very much, that there is more to the story than he is letting on. This has all the signs of an affair. I think he is hiding something and people who have nothing to hide, don't hide. He wouldn't be withdrawing from the loss of friendship either.

Did he ever invite her over for dinner with the family?

melody-
He did not invite her for dinner- I think part of my instinct is because it has happened to me before- I was obsessed then- but my ex came right out and told me what was going on- my husband given every option will not admit to it- the girl, when I questioned her denied it too- if she wanted to break us up- that would have been her perfect opportunity- she has nothing to lose at all- she has told coworkers that her friendship w/him is not worth losing her job over and especially since nothing is going on- I am torn- I am just pulling back- I need time to get my feelings in order, that is what is hard for me to do- I am scared and feel like my heart hurts- but then the strength comes into play and I just get up and keep going...

josie, I hope you are right and nothing did happen. But the 21 year old's reluctance to tell you anything is not evidence that nothing happened. She could have been sworn to secrecy, which would be no surprise. Affairs cannot survive without secrecy and she knows this. And people who have affairs have no compunctions about lying.

Something did happen and I fear that you are trying to convince yourself that you are crazy rather than admit this. I have been here a long time, and I am here to tell you this has all the signs of an affair, the secrecy, the pages, leaving his job and his subsequent withdrawal.

If this was a mere friendship, josie, your H would have cut her loose a long time ago. He would have invited her into your lives rather than keeping it secret. Can you imagine going through this for a GIRLFRIEND? No, it makes no sense.

So, I am very concerned when you start doubting yourself in the face of ALL THE SIGNS. Josie, you would be crazy if you DID NOT suspect something. Do you understand? You are not crazy to suspect an affair when there are this many indicators.

Now, if there were NO SIGNS here, I would be the first to tell you to get a grip, that you were merely imagining the worst based on your past. But you have signs here, Josie. You have good reason to doubt.

So, please don't call yourself crazy for doing what any rational person would do. And maybe you should back off and give him a chance to think. Maybe if he is not in defense mode he will admit the truth.

But in the meantime, I would only suggest that you watch his every move. Get his cellphone bill and see if there is contact. Tap your phones, put spyware on your computer. If nothing happens, you can be relieved and assured that nothing is happening and move on. If something is happening, you will have EVIDENCE, instead of vague suspicions and KNOW what is happening.

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by josie426:
<strong> melody-
He did not invite her for dinner- I think part of my instinct is because it has happened to me before- I was obsessed then- but my ex came right out and told me what was going on- </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your instincts were RIGHT, weren't they? Before he met this 21 year old, did you have instincts that he was fooling around?

Mel,
He never gave me any reason ever to think something was going on- he has had boughts of depression for which he has been treated before- with counseling and meds- he is a loner, in alot of ways- he is like that with his friends and family also- he has stopped hanging around with his friends, he stopped playing hockey- all of who he was before all of this has changed- everyone has noticed his total withdrawl from life-not just me. He is like in a limbo state, but what I know is that he is honest enough that in the past when he did not like something or whatever, he has told me- he says he does not feel pressured to stay w/ me- he wants to be there-nobody is forcing him to be with me- I am the one who is thinking and saying the worst all the time- jumping to conclusions, assuming that he feels a certain way etc- I am obsessed with issues from one experience that I thought I long buried-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by josie426:
[QB] Mel,
He never gave me any reason ever to think something was going on- </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I mean, Josie. You come here telling me YOU are the crazy one, yet your suspicions are perfectly rational. Your suspicions are based on all the signs you see. You haven't imagined them and are not unduly suspicious. You weren't suspicious until you began seeing signs - please think on that.

If you were really crazy, then you would have been suspicious no matter what happened.

You say that you are "obsessed" and that this obsession stems from previous emotional issues. I don't believe that at all. It may play a small part in the intensity of your reaction, but it is normal and natural to be obsessed when you know that the truth is being withheld from you and that the story does not make sense. And this is not about an insignificant issue.

All the signs tell you one thing and he is telling you another. Folks can more easily deal with adultery than they can with having facts about their life withheld from them, especially when it concerns such a grave and important matter.

And yes, you will jump to conclusions in the absence of facts. You will torture yourself with the worst possible scenario. That is a very common reaction when the facts are being withheld.

Mel,
I found out about her totally by accident- I needed to upgrade a cell phone for our plan- a friend has a cell phone store- he asked me his # pulled up the account- and I saw all these calls from this girl to him and some to her- What can I do if something did in fact happen? Does it change anything? He left his job- he removed himself from the situation- I did not tell him to do that- he did that. What if I am wrong??? What if I am accusing him of something that did not happen- he was fine before I confronted him about this girl- he mentioned her briefly along with several other women he worked with- I have alot of male friends in work- I work in a hospital- so it is crawling with docs- my point is- I know if someone accused me of something I did not do- I would be so frustrated and angry- I would also withdrawl too- I have been told by my therapist- just because things look one way- does not mean they ARE that way- he left his job on his own- I did not force him- I gave him every opportunity to leave without question- I do not own him- I am married to him- he does not want to leave- he knows he has issues- I knew he had issues- he pretends that he can handle things on his own and I want to fix the problems right away- that is what makes us different- he is in Florida visiting his mom now- she knows how I feel- she believes him- since he is so emphatic about the whole thing-she feels bad for me and for him- we have had so many things come up the last few yrs- we can never catch a break..

Mel,
I found out about her totally by accident- I needed to upgrade a cell phone for our plan- a friend has a cell phone store- he asked me his # pulled up the account- and I saw all these calls from this girl to him and some to her- What can I do if something did in fact happen? Does it change anything? He left his job- he removed himself from the situation- I did not tell him to do that- he did that. What if I am wrong??? What if I am accusing him of something that did not happen- he was fine before I confronted him about this girl- he mentioned her briefly along with several other women he worked with- I have alot of male friends in work- I work in a hospital- so it is crawling with docs- my point is- I know if someone accused me of something I did not do- I would be so frustrated and angry- I would also withdrawl too- I have been told by my therapist- just because things look one way- does not mean they ARE that way- he left his job on his own- I did not force him- I gave him every opportunity to leave without question- I do not own him- I am married to him- he does not want to leave- he knows he has issues- I knew he had issues- he pretends that he can handle things on his own and I want to fix the problems right away- that is what makes us different- he is in Florida visiting his mom now- she knows how I feel- she believes him- since he is so emphatic about the whole thing-she feels bad for me and for him- we have had so many things come up the last few yrs- we can never catch a break..

Josie, hopefully you are wrong and you are just nuts. But in the meantime, I would keep my eyes peeled and watch him closely. That way you can rest assured that contact has ended and nothing happened.

Melody,
Ha ha- sometimes I feel nuts- I am overly sensitive sometimes- I am a worrier,( Taurus), I am stubborn and I always think the worst- all that he knew when he met me and he still loves me - no matter what- am I insecure- yes- but that is something I need to work on for myself- nobody can make you secure but yourself- my family life was never great growing up- I am a child of divorce- a bitter one- and the men in my life have let me down- my father left, my ex left- now the fear of my h leaving now is scary- but this he knows and he still tells me to let it go- he is the one with the problem- he has apologized to me for all of this- he is projecting his insecurities w/ himself through me- my therapist says this happens alot- women show outward signs of what their h is really feeling- I believe that and again, I am not stupid by any means, I just never dealt with the issues before- now I have to- that scares me too- because I have no control- and what has happened before is over and done- i need to let it go- I cannot compare my current h to my ex h- they are 2 differnt people...