I wasn't sure what to call this thread. I am very confused and still in a resentful state right now. FWH and I had a great weekend. we got along well, and are becoming more and more comfortable with each other. We even had a successful intimate encounter Friday night...

Sooo, what is the problem you ask???

Well, I am still giving it my all. TRYING not to LB...while all he does is do what he damn well pleases here. Nothing has changed on his part.

BIG PROBLEM in my eyes! The reason we got to the point we were at BEFORE the affair was because of the way we BOTH were. Him being lazy, not wanting to do anything around the house or out of the house for that matter. Taking for granted that I would do EVERYTHING. I cook, clean, do the kid thing...OK, yes, I am a SAHM...BUT, I cant do it all alone.

ALL DAY Sunday he spent on the computer. ALL FREAKIN DAY! I went to church...alone...came home he was STILL on that computer. I started dinner, still on the ocmputer. Didn't help much with dinner. I refused to put the kids down, again alone, so I asked him kindly if he was going to put the kids down. Not a hard task mind you..You just put them in bed and tuck them in...make sure they go potty. God forbid he read the little ones a story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> so after an hour of waiting...it is now 9:30...I was furious. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I was on the couch reading Surviving an Affair, trying NOT to LB, my blood is boiling inside. You see, when I am on the computer and someone needs me, I jump. He just goes about his business...

Finally he puts them down. Then goes right back to the ocmputer. says, let me just do one more thing and I will be out here. Comes out sits with me for 10 minutes then says, I'm going to bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> doesn't cuddle, nothing.

The man is oblivious when it comes to us. Always has been. He just tunes everything out. If it is not what HE wants to do, forget it.

Now, how can I change my ways if he is not going to change his. He knows that he must change. He knows what he has to do, but he has yet to do any of it. Yea, yea, withdrawal...he can FAKE liking me...he can do some things round here to show me he wants to really save this marriage.

Point being...I am not going to waste my time and energy changing myself, showing him all my love, not LBing him, if he has no intentions of changing. I will not live in a marriage that got me to the positin I was in PRE A...A 'loveless" marriage as WH calls it...

Another thing..he is not being open and honest with me. something I always treasure in our marraige. Something I NEED him to do in order to win his trust back. I read one of his posts here yesterday, which said "OW is trying ot make me jealous"...I thought we had an agreement that we could read each others posts. I caught him reading an entire thread of mine the other day. Wasn't too happy, but Idont want to hide anything from him. so he got mad at me and said I shouldn't be reading his posts, bla, bla, bla. Then said he wasn't going to post anymore one here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I asked him what he meant by making him jealous, and he said the girls at the NH are telling him OW is going out to bars, clubs, etc...real classy lady here. Must be nice to leave your son with grandma all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I dont know what to do...I do know that if he doesn't start changing his ways, I will start with the OLD ME, someone I didn't like much and I know he didn't either. Resenting him more and more. Pushing him away more and more. then I wont be able to stop my feelings anymore. I NEED for him to touch me and hold my hand. I have told him this, he wont do it.

I am not an unattractive person. I am not a digusting TOAD! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I am working out and toning my body. Why cant he at least FAKE liking me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

OK, I think the only way I can NOT LB the man is to live in silence. He is driving me NUTS> I feel as though I am his roomate again.

OH YEA, another thing is he keeps making snide remarks about this trainer of mine. Does he WANT me to cheat on him. then he will make a snide remark about OW..like, ok, I'm going to go see OW now. Not laughing dear.

Help me...what should I do!

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Why not agree to read each other's posts? If you need to write something the other should not read .... then perhaps you shouldn't write it in a public place.

"radical honesty" .... part of recovery and a healthy marriage.

"suffering in silence" .... NOT part of recovery. This "suffering" and subsequent anger gives you permission to feel secretly superior to your H. Anytime you position yourself to have a leg up on your spouse while attempting to recover this marriage ---> this represents a foul on your part. You put recovery behind feeling superior.

There are NON-lovebusting ways to say things that are bugging you. This is a learned skill. it takes practice. It involves risk-taking..... putting yourself openly honest in front of your H.

I am NOT taking "sides" .... I am on the "side" of recovery for your marriage ....

What is your H's screen ID?

You are awfully early in your recovery. Be kind to yourself. Rest and playful recreation are necessary for you.

Pep

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Mom...he needs IC...he has personal issues that he needs to resolve...

My personal philosophy is that a good recover takes each person working on their individual selves (we both did IC) and also working on the marital issues (we did MC and counseled with SH). How does your H feel about MB principles...does he agree that they sound like formula for a happy relationship.

That's the only way I see a happy marriage occurring..much less a recovery.

I also still think you too need time ALONE...no computers, no house work, no office work, no kids!!!

You need to get away just the two of you, somewhere nice and romantic, even if it's just for a long weekend.

I am with you....I wasn't willing to just recover from the A...I wanted a better M. I wanted more out of life. Funny...pre A I really thought we had a great M and by most standards we did...however...we had issues and we didn't do a consistent job of meeting each others needs.

After all the counseling and soul searching...I realized that getting back what we had before wasn't good enough...either he was willing to do the personal stuff and marital recovery work or I would find a way to live without him.

Thank goodness he came to his senses!

Remember..patience is key to recovery but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be sharing your feelings in a non LB manner.

prayers to you mom.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is your H's screen ID? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pep, he is dadto3boys. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Susan

This might help dadto3boys

<small>[ April 12, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Susan ]</small>

Your Taker is out in FULL FORCE.

Yep, mine came out and reared it's ugly head quite often, it was as though I thought I should be treated BETTER than I treated him because he OWED me.

How dare he treat me like this after all that he put me through!!!

And I was so ready to just throw in the towel many a time.

I wanted to hold back because I thought it would be an LB to remind him of what I wanted...and it would have been...the way I used to.

I had to learn a new way to be married, and so did he. I had to have some pretty serious conversations with him and let him know how very close I was to just leaving because things were still rotten for me. I don't know if that helped, but it got the point across that we couldn't both sit around and expect our M to get better on it's own, we had to be energetic and change our behavior, both of you.

You sitting around steamed that he's not doing enough is not helping. Be honest with what you want, and CHANGE the way you do things!!!

If he is spending too much time on the computer, give him an excuse to come out...like, walk over, rub his shoulders, tell him you miss his company, would love to rub his feet, would he sit with you for a while on the couch and tell you of his daydreams and let you rub his feet... I know, last thing you want to do, but I'll bet you'll get your feet rubbed in return...or something else.

You have changed so much. Why stop? See, I disagree with those that say a Plan A is something you do while the A is going on...I think fulfilling your H's needs is something that needs to continue for the rest of your M.

Hi Pep, thank you for your reply! I am extremely depressed, confused, angry, you name it right now...I feel like just walking out and letting him live his little fantasy life!

Originally posted by Pepperband:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why not agree to read each other's posts? If you need to write something the other should not read .... then perhaps you shouldn't write it in a public place..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my sentiments exactly! I cannot go on with all these secrets he has. .I am not sure if you saw my post the othre day about the guns...but it just seems he is hiding so much from me right now. I cant stand not being able to trust someone I am supposed to love.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"radical honesty" .... part of recovery and a healthy marriage.

"suffering in silence" .... NOT part of recovery. This "suffering" and subsequent anger gives you permission to feel secretly superior to your H. Anytime you position yourself to have a leg up on your spouse while attempting to recover this marriage ---> this represents a foul on your part. You put recovery behind feeling superior.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is what I was trying to read up on last night...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are NON-lovebusting ways to say things that are bugging you. This is a learned skill. it takes practice. It involves risk-taking..... putting yourself openly honest in front of your H.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have yet to learn this part. I WANT to make this marriage work...but how can I if I am the only one working on it.

Mom,

Like I mentioned in my post to you the other day,are you sure WH is not still e-mailing this OW(i.e continuing the A)? How can he be on the computer all day? What is he doing? And who is he talking to? I think he also admitted on his thread to other OW calls and not being able to do NC and leave the NH.Hmmmm.

I can understand your frustration but the lines of communication being open and being open and honest is paramount.He must understand that if you are bothered by this prolonged computer time then you have a right to know exactly to whom he is talking.If he is hiding things and being secretive then you may have to snoop again.It's hard to tell here just how bad things are at home with him versus what is just anger but it will take time for him to adjust to new ways of being a husbnad and father but the computer time is a concern in my book.My WH is the same way and now he locks me out of his computer so I can't see what mischief he is up to but I already know.He is just biding his time until he moves out which is soon.Then he can type away until his arms fall off.

Secretive behavior and hiding things is a big red flag to me.Just keep your walls up and don't be fooled.I hope he is doing right by you but you still have to be aware just in case.

O

Thank you forever...We ARE trying to get away. We or shall I say I want to go to the MB weekend. Now today he says "I haven't committed to it yet"...What the heck is that supposed to mean? To me it says...I ahven't committed to the marriage yet...another reason I want to just pack him up on his merry way and lead him to the door! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

IC...what a joke here. We went to a councellor and she was Pro Divorce <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> HELLO! I am weary of anyone except Steve at this point.

Thank you roughroad and Susan for your posts!

Stillheremakingit

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your Taker is out in FULL FORCE.

Yep, mine came out and reared it's ugly head quite often, it was as though I thought I should be treated BETTER than I treated him because he OWED me.

How dare he treat me like this after all that he put me through!!!

And I was so ready to just throw in the towel many a time.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WOW, this is how I feel RIGHT NOW! I just want to throw in that DIRTY beat up towel. Just go for it! Get out of my life. Doesn't he KNOW how much he HURT me and is STILL hurting me! God, cant he see it...Why do I have to show my best side NOW after what HE did. HE should be showing ME HIS best side. But NOOO, he just goes on his merry way...still making me miserable. Acting like nothing ever happened. You know, he is the same miserable SOB as he was Pre A...angry, yelling all the time, bitter...And here I sit, I am supposed to just take it like a little nothing. I WANT to just yell at him as loud as I can!

YOU STUPID SOB...LOOK AT WHAT YOU DID TO ME...YOU DESTROYED MY SELF WORTH, MY LOVE, MY VALUES...YOU TOOK IT ALL AND TREATED IT AS IF IT WERE A PIECE OF TRASH

I went up to his clinic today. Mind you and HOUR drive ONE WAY! Get there and he is mean and rude to me. I ask him what is wrong. He is irritable and bitter. We go to lunch. He is distant. We get back to the office and in comes one of the nurses. Dr. C...so and so is requestion to see YOU, he saw your car and he wants to see you....DR C is supposed to be off at this time, but i was working on his computer. He turns areound and gives ME a dirty look. Excuse me , is this not YOUR clinic. YOU are the DR... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I asked him again what is wrong. NOTHING he barks. I said..."well, with this attitude you are looking for a fight."...

I drive home with one of the boys, long time to THINK! I got madder and madder...I have been home and have been very cold and distant. I know if we exchange any words we will fight. Then I will lash out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had to learn a new way to be married, and so did he. I had to have some pretty serious conversations with him and let him know how very close I was to just leaving because things were still rotten for me. I don't know if that helped, but it got the point across that we couldn't both sit around and expect our M to get better on it's own, we had to be energetic and change our behavior, both of you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

MT3B,

I agree with Octobergirl...you may need to strongly consider that the A is still on going. I don't know for sure (none of us do), but my instinct is that this is the case. I rarely say this sort of thing to any BS (maybe 1-2 times since I've been at MB) but, I've been in recovery for awhile, been at MB for awhile and I've gotten pretty good at recognizing the signs/red flags. Only you know the best course of action. My suggestion to you is to "brace yourself" for the possibility your H is continuing his A. Prepare accordingly.

AHHH, well the A hole just left. Went into heated discussion.....and he decides to leave. will go into more detail about the discussion in a bit.

Octobergirl and MGM...thanks for your posts...NO I am 100% certain the Affair is not still going on. I know his whearabouts at all times and he has not called her on his cel phone. They talk on the phone business, but I KNOW for a fact they are NOT seeing each other.

the computer. He is on several racing forums..Trying to sell things and such. I am in here when he is on the computer most of the time. He is not very computer savvy so he doesn't have any email accounts outside of the one I have set up for him here at the house. She does not use the ocmputer either.

I flat out told him I dont trust him and he offered me to go with him tomorrow for rounds. But I said NO. We got into a very heated discussion and he left. I cant go into it right now. I am just PISSED!

Mom,
I agree with Octobergirl, it is very suspicious that he is on the computer for such a long time. I would guess that there is contact with the OW.

Did you plan anything as a family for Easter Sunday? I don't understand your going to church and his spending the day on the computer if you are trying to rebuild a marriage, no wonder you are angry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

You are burning insude while he is hiding insude himself and clearly not making any positive changes towards a happy familt life. For heavens sake, even if he does not attend church with you, you could have planned a special brunch out or a day at the park. I do not see him making ANY attempts at reconnecting with his sons.

You need to encourage him to read these threads and to post again himself. He seems to be in a serious withdrawal and fog and is not making any positive changes, no wonder neither one of you is happy right now. Who would be?

I give up on trying to help him see that leaving the nursing home is an option. Obviously, he hs decided that he can distance himself from the situation and continue with his job. I am very sad that he continues to value his money over his family. So many people here have given him advice on how to get away from the situation and he refuses to even consider it. This is very selfish and may cost him his family and more money in the end. I hope he is reading now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Try to keep a positive attitude and remember that you cannot make him change, he has to decide to do that for himself. what you can do is make the climate at home better, more peaceful and a place where he wants to spend time with his family. you can't fix this all by yourself. I will continue to pray for your family, Ladysing

WOW MT3 - are you living MY life?

I silently boil with a smile on my face. Hey - "why dosn't the house look better you only have a little part time job"... and drive 2 kids to baseball, karate 3x week, music lessons, girl scouts, boy scouts (and I lead both)serve on a few boards, etc. and he helps NOT AT ALL.

sits on the computer, he is entitled to relax.

And I hear - you are looking for a fight, I can tell by your attitude. (HUH?)

The other night I fell asleep early. He came upstairs and put on the TV AND got on the computer. I woke up and asked what he was doing. I got a screaming - why are you questioning everything? Hey - I didn't start anything -never mind - but he goes on about my questioning his every move (feeling guilty maybe...) NO - but what are you so angry about I ask. You should know -I am told. So I ask again and am accused of pushing him. I can not win!

I got him to read as much as the withdrawal symtoms in Surviving Affair, but so far nothing else. His comment is "oh boy -I am textbook"

MB weekend - HA - "those people are losers", he just made a mistake, he's not like those types!

Some days I wonder if I really have the energy to keep this up.

Again, my gut instinct is the A is still going on and he WANTS you to "kick him out" and you to end the M. That way he can avoid all guilt and responsibility for the dissolution of the M. Do not give him the satisfaction. If he wants out of the M so badly then he has to do the work, not you! He can leave of his own free will, he can file for D (if it gets to that point). Don't do anything to make this easier for him. Be prepared to work for and fight for your M; don't make it easy by making him go. Be the strong, confident and intelligent women who speaks so clearly through her posts!

Hang in there. I know you are angry, frustrated and all those other awful feelings. I do remember how terrible it all feels. Most, if not all, the BS's here remember. If we could take away your pain we would. Try to remember that this won't last forever. One way or another the trauma will end. At the end of this, I know you will truly have grown into everything you were meant to be.

Just so you know, I remember reading awhile ago that one WS managed to keep his A going by staying in contact with OW through ebay!! Go figure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Deception through "creativity" is not uncommon.

Just a quick response! He came back. This is sooo stupid...How old are we again? I must do some work righ tnow....but will come back...I will not leave you all hanging!

If your WH is STILL taking or making phone calls to this OW then "Houston,we have a problem!"

We agreed that that had to stop and I also think we told him on HIS thread somewhere.Ugh.

If I may ask,what exactly makes you 100% sure the A is not ongoing? Just to clarify.

O

Rest assured...he is not still actively in the A...Not on the computer, phone or in person. I know OW was not at the NH last week and I KNOW she will not be there...I may just go with him tomorrow, since he did invite me to tag along.

I was in the middle of my previous post when in he walks with a snide look on his face. I asked him what his problem was...I know LB...I am out of energy though.

I cant even tell you what we discussed. But basically I told him I cannot do this alone. he is either in or out. He either commits or he doesn't....

so he says "OK, I am in".....

Well, see I cant just settle for that...I have to take it further and further. I said

"are you committing for ME or to make ME happy or are you committing for YOu and for US"...

so what does he say...

"to make you happy"...and what do I say...

"ok, bye-bye" waving my hand bye

he says "you cant kick me out now, I have to get my affairs in order"

"ummm, no, you can go now...if that what makes you happy...bye bye" waving my hand

I can be real sarcastic ***** when I want to be...

Oh yea, before THIs even happened I had given him some scenario's about how GRAND life was in his fantasy life. How he could go out anytime he wanted with OW with NO strings attached. How HERE he has 4 strings attached. How if he wants to go ride around in his race car with OW, he just goes...here if I dont want him to go, he cant. Oh, what a life.

You see I was TRYING to make life look better on the other side of the fence. But he comes back and says

"no, I am not happy living that way..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

WHAT???

Anyway, he leaves and I lock him out. I know many more LB's on my part were exchanged. I told him I cannot live the rest of my married life with a loveless husband. I can go on giving it my all and getting nothing in return. I cant go on with him being distant and cold and mean to me and the kids.

I looked him flat in the face and said

"dont worry, we'll survive"...

he had a cold look of fear on his face...Then I asked him about the MB weekend. he said he is not going to go to the seminar because al my MB friends want us to go..I told him they aren't even going, they simply want to go to dinner. he says "well, I dont need to go clear across the country to work on my marriage"

Oh but we needed to have the A...so that is why we have to go clear across the country to WORK on the marriage.

Ok, so he leaves. And I lock him out...He comes back and says he needs to get in the house... i said what for? he said "to get some things"
I said "ummm, nope dont think so"....he says "ok, to work on the marriage" so I let him in and he gave me a big hug...then proceeds to say "I thought things were getting better" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Well, yes, they were...but I can only give so much without getting anything in return and driving 2 hours to see you today and you treating me like dirt did not help my situation. So, he agreed to be more patient and more understanding and work on the marriage.

I dont know if I did the right thing, but you know he needs to know that I am not going to be here to be his little toy. I am a person, HIS wife and I have feelings. he needs to know that darnit.

I assure you, this man is NOT having an affair still. Please believe me on that. Thanks so much for all your posts. Now let me see if i can get him back over here. ARGH!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong> If your WH is STILL taking or making phone calls to this OW then "Houston,we have a problem!"

We agreed that that had to stop and I also think we told him on HIS thread somewhere.Ugh.

If I may ask,what exactly makes you 100% sure the A is not ongoing? Just to clarify.

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ummm, I dont know...instinct <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He hasn't called her on his cell phone at least <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I dont know how I am sure. He is here when he is supposed to be, he is accounted for when he is supposed to be, he is where he is supposed to be at all times...so far...we ARE/WERE making progress before my major LB session just now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I dont know..>I just have to trust my instincts. I think he will be honest with SH tomorrow and tell him if he IS still in the affair, but my gut feeling says no he is not. and I may just go with him tomorrow. I can round too...Why not!