I am working to recover from my husband's infidelity. He is a pastor, and the other woman is a member of our church. He has repented, and we seem to be on our way to rebuilding our marriage, although I still have a lot of anger and bitterness that I am constantly praying to be freed of. While a good deal of my anger is directed at him, I have some very bitter feelings towards his mistress. She has not missed a service in the three months since the disclosure was made. She is very young - 30 years my junior (that in itself was GREAT for my self-esteem and confidence level!) I'm 53. I've been married for 30 years, and this has knocked the wind from my sails. I must see her at least three times a week, and I have been "forced" to continue to speak to her and behave as though nothing is amiss for fear of her becoming upset and telling of their affair. They committed the adultery, and I now have the burden of not splitting our church upon my back. I am becoming obsessed with the need to tell her what this has done to me and my family. This girl was a frequent guest in my home. I feel doubly betrayed. As long as I don't "rant and rave", would it be permissable to talk to her about these things? She seems to have gotten out of this with no recriminations whatsoever. Please advise.

For your own sake, don't confront her. If she has gone away without hesitation then work on yourself and your family. I have been there recently, not sure if there was infidelity but there was another woman it it took me by complete surprise. Is there a way for you to get out of the three times a week meetings? If there is or if there is a way to find something else to do at those meetings--find it.

I know it is difficult but you won't feel better confronting her with it. Trust me. It doesn't work!

I wouldn't bother. The A wasn't about her...be honest, any W who presented herself at the right moment would have sufficed for your H.

This A was about your M and how your H feels about himself. The OW was just someone your WH used.

The responsibility for the clean up of this mess is not yours, it's your WH's. He needs to protect you form this and if that means changing churches so be it. Personally, I'd be very upset and angry if my H continued to expose me to an OW. It's insulting and disrespectful! As well, I wouldn't bother speaking to her...no one can "force" you to, take a stand. Why talk to her at all? It is not necessary for you to pretend. To be honest, I think that keeping this A a secret is not wise. Your H needs to "step up to the plate" and take responsibility for his behaviour and if that means a public acknowledgement to protect you then so be it!

Don't behave as if nothing is amiss...it most certainly is! You owe her nothing! She shouldn't be welcome in your home anymore (if she still is). She has forfeited any possibility of a congenial relationship with you. Again, quit hiding behind "niceties".

The OW is not worth your time or energy. Put that time and energy into fixing your M. The OW probably wouldn't care what you had to say. Face it, she cared and respected so little for you that she participated in a A with your H.

ME,

Welcome to MB...you're very new in this process, and because of this I too would discourage you from talking with OW about how you feel.

I doubt at this point you'd feel any better by confronting. I hope you read all you can on this site starting with the basic concepts section.

Have you picked up Surviving An Affair? Another book is Torn Asunder. Torn Asunder covers infidelity like you've experienced with your H being a pastor.

Down the road possibly I suspect there might be a time and place to confront this OW; but not right now; you're way too vulnerable and newly trying to heal.

We're a great support group, we'll help you as much as you need for us to!

I have a pretty different viewpoint. I was married at age 17 and about 10 years into the marriage, my H had an affair with another Christian woman. She was a mess when he broke up with her and he wanted to comfort her. I told him no, that I would talk to her. I did, we sat in a restaurant and talked and we both told the truth about the affair (they thought that they were in love, but really she just liked that he paid attention to her and had sex to keep that part up). Afterwards we sat in her car and I prayed for both of our healing. She called me a few times after that. The last time she called she was distraught because she was falling for yet ANOTHER married man just a couple of months after falling for my H. This is where I drew the line. I told her that I could no longer help her and that I needed pursue my own healing. She never called again.

I don't understand why the entire congregation doesn't know of your H's affair. He is the one who took the risk for them finding out. Why should you be the one to have to keep it covered up? You didn't take the risk. It doesn't make sense to me, but I do have a very high sense of morality just by my nature. Some people think that makes me cold, but it just makes me honest for the most part.

I do feel for your H, but he created this situation. He should deal with it. Why should his parishoners not know that the man leading them is terribly human and made a very bad error in judgement? Why shouldn't they get to choose whether or not to continue following him as a man of God just as you had the opportunity? Makes no sense to me.

I'm very sorry for your pain. I hope that you find some peace. Do what your heart leads you to do. Trust your intuition. If I didn't trust my intuition, I wouldn't be here still married to my H right now after his most recent revelation (8 additional affairs over 12 years). By keeping his first affair secret from his family, all we did was make it easier for him to fall into the infidelity trap over and over again. Those he kept secret from me too. Mold can't live in sunlight. It needs to be uncovered and exposed to the light of day.

Take care.

Stillwed

P.S. Please ask him to consider a Warrior Weekend with the Mankind Project. It is not church based, but accepts all faiths. He will get a chance to share his shame with a group of men. His pain will be welcome there. They don't judge you, they help you. He will become a man of integrity, not a man just trying to be a good man of God. There is a difference. This takes over where willpower leaves off. The info is in my signature line. The experience was life changing for my H.

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: stillwed ]</small>

Dear Maria,

Now I will tell you my story, and I hope this will give you a different perspective to look upon OW.

My H left almost exactly 3 years ago to live w/ow. She was (apparently - I never actually met her) very obese, and(I suspect) very desperate to NOT be alone. So, she enticed my H to leave me and move in w/her. I also suspect she paid for the div lawyer, since he basically left w/no more than the clothes on his back, but within just a few months had a new wardrobe and only 6 months later was driving a spanking new vehicle. You are getting the picture Im painting, I'm sure.

I was (originally) filled w/rage and hatred. HOW DARE SHE interfere in our M? HOW DARE SHE lure him away and then PAY FOR everything to keep him away?

Eventually, we div'd, and God had begun working in me to show me that I needed to (ask for and) PRAY for forgiveness from my H, and pray for her. She was lost, obviously didn't know Jesus, and her life was a living hell, and so would be her after-life without some salvation.

BELIEVE ME I did it purely out of OBEDIENCE (toward HER), as I really didn't care WHERE she ended up in eternity.

Well, to make a long story pretty short, SHE told my H she wanted to be M'd in July, so they were (apparently) making plans thus. On March 1, due to complications from surgery, SHE DIED.

Now, I wish I'd been more diligent to pray for her salvation........it just goes to prove that NONE of us knows HOW LONG we have on this earth.....and that we could be taken at any time. This made me realize my responsibility to pray for anyone who crosses my path whether I like them or not or think they deserve it or not.

I certainly didn't want the woman to die! I just wanted her O-U-T of my M, away from my H. God did not want them to M (I think), and now I am left to wonder if the woman knew Jesus before she died? What a thng to have been your last action on earth, to have been an OW?

She WILL stand before God for her actions. SHE WILL be held accountable for what she has done. YOU DO NOT NEED TO THINK SHE WILL "GET AWAY SCOTT FREE" for this or any other sin in her life.

Give God back the right to exact His vengeance. He is Perfect in all His Ways. and it's HIS right to judge, not ours.

God Bless you,

any time that you even think about the OW pray for her that is truly the best and only thing you can do w/regards to her. I have a feeling what faith you belong to given you go 3 times a week and i am by no means an expert but i think a couple of things need to happen, your husband needs to make a public apology to his congregation and/or he needs to step down and do a lot of soul-searching and rebuilding. there is no sin that is too great for God to forgive and in actuality he has already forgiven us by sending his son who sacrificed himself for us for our salvation given we ask for it.

has your H talked to any other pastors, mentors, etc.? have you? consider talking/writing, etc. to Dr. James Dobson, Dr. Charles Stanley, and Dr. Harley. There are many out there that have been given wonderful spirtual gifts such as counseling to help others in times like these. OF course you know you are not alone or unique in this situation (ministers having A) and there are resources out there for you as well as for your H. but your H needs to lay a lot at God's feet and so do you and things can't really move forward until that happens.

continue to reach out to those who support you, read the scriptures and the same verses you have read for years might have a totally new meaning for you because God is using them to speak to you now at this time in your life. you need to continue to strive to act Christ-like and be able to look back some day on what is going on now and be able to say that what you did is what God would want you to.

you know I & II corinthians are mostly paul rebuking the church at corinth for teir disobedience but it was done w/love and in admiration for what he knew the members were capable of and would probably speak clearly to your H right now. OF course a lot of the psalms also are good like 40, 51, and 61. Would your H consider posting here? i guess an answer to your question about confronting the OW I would have to say not now. prayers to you both.

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 02:11 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Marie,

I think that I am still very inmature spiritually. But the recent events brought me closer to GOD.

personaly, I don't think that you should deal with OW 3 times a week. Is there any way you can get a way from that. I would definitely won't let her to come to my home. You H is the one who is responsible for this mess. If you are in recovery, he should see your pain and deal with it.

I agree with others, don't waste your energy to deal with her. What I did was to pray for OW and her family. I pray that they family will be united under GOD. They are not believers. I prayed so hard for my WH's salvation too. Many are praying for him.

You H is already a pastor. I don't know what the consequece it is if he committed something like this. Don't you think he is the one who should suffer?

OW s/b asked to attend services in another church. She knows why. Her actions will tell her attitude.

I recommend confiding in some who can serve as a watchtower or lookout for you. That way you don't have the OW in your face and the temptation is not around your H.

While I don't advocate telling everyone in the church, some respected ones can be helpful.

JMHO,
L.

What everyone here has said is true. Nothing you can say to her will change anything but you need to follow your own intuition.

I am one of those that confronted the OW defying all those good folks in here that told me not to... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And i am glad i did.

Don't expect anything much out of this confrontation and each OW is diferent so maybe you might not get a good reaction out of your confrontation with the OW.

In my case the OW was an inmature 20 year old woman with issues. I knew immediately after speaking to her that i am worth a lot more than her.

My advice...if you can bury it without confrontation then let it be buried, if not then do what you must.

How sure are you that the affair between your husband and the OW is really over? Everything I've read about ending affairs and recovering your marriage (and I've been reading a LOT about that sort of stuff) advises that there be no more contact between the WS (wayward spouse) and the OP (other person). And if the OP was someone the WS met at work, the WS should change jobs. So IMO (and the opinion of all those experts who wrote the books I'm reading) your husband should resign from pastoring at that church even if it means moving (which is also advised BTW).

Also, it is advised that the affair be exposed. Otherwise the fantasy stage could just continue and the shame and consequences be avoided. Once there is exposure THEN the adulterers start to say things like 'things just aren't the same' (in affairland). Until there is exposure it will still be so much fun for them to sneak around together behind your back.

I think the fact that both your husband and the other woman are showing so little respect for your feelings, expecting you to behave as if nothing has happened, and the two of them are doing nothing to end ALL contact between them, is very rude and insensitive to you at the best, VERY suspect at worst. It's a form of emotional abuse you should not subject yourself to. Do NOT even think that as a Christian and pastor's wife this is your duty!

What consequences have either of them had to deal with? My husband is a serial adulterer (on his 7th affair) and I didn't 'tattle' to his family when he had the first few ('just' one night stands that I didn't find out about until much later so I figured it's over just fogive & forget...) It wasn't until I started telling family & friends that he's had any consequences to deal with from his problem. I did him no favor by helping him hide his problem years ago. I probably just enabled him to get even worse and now we most likely will be getting a divorce and his 3 daughters are totally heartborken and disgusted with their father (he's made much too big of a mess this time to hide from his much older daughters)

I also think he (and the OW) should confess to the congregation. I don't think he and she should be allowed to decide for the congregation. I agree that it is for God to judge and punish, but there are to be naturally occurring consequences to sin. Helping sinners avoid the consequences and hide their sin will not in any way help them (or you) recover from their sin. I would be appalled if I was being nice to the adulteress in front of you, not knowing what you were suffering and that you might interpret my nicety as endorsement of the adulteress' sin and non-support for you the betrayed wife! I most certainly would want to be told so I could decide for myself what consequences there would be for the adulterers as far as my relationship with them goes! I think if you did an anonymous survey of the congregation you would find that the vast majority would want to be told. Whether or not the congregation has a right to know AND what they do with that information is not for the adulterers - or even the betrayed wife - to decide IMO. It is likely many in the congregation will react in a 'judgemental' way... that's between each person in the congregation and God. That is in no way your responsibility!

Also, think about this: I would not want to attend a church where the pastor didn't know how to teach how to avoid adultery, how to protect yourself, your marriage, your family from it. When a couple comes to your husband (or you) for advise for recovering from adultery you need to know how to help them. If you and your husband join together in exposing his adultery, demonstrating the most effective way to help a marriage recover, and assure it doesn't happen again, that would be what's best for the congregation IMO. Some in the congregation may judge and not forgive. Your husband might be asked to leave. But if the other woman plans on staying at that church your husband should leave anyway in order to protect you and his marriage.

Have you and your husband attended counseling to fix the pre-affair and post-affair fallout...

Is this one of those just pretend it didn't happen FWS... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Does you husband expect you to talk to her several times a week..

Is HE protecting you at all...

that's what I'm interested in knowing in all of this..what does your hubby say??

ark

Thank you, dear ones, for your comments and questions. To give you a clearer picture of my situation, let me tell you that my husband's affair lasted for 7 months. My children ( 20 and 23) discovered that he was calling their friend (age 23), confronted him, and he promised to end it. This was at Thanksgiving. Shortly before Christmas, they found a note that he had put on her car (she was in OUR house exchanging gifts with our girls - at this time, they thought she was "innocent", only being pursued by their Dad - yuck). They again confronted him, and demanded that he go for counseling. He told them it was ended, went to the counselor, told the counselor it was ended, and in January, my youngest daughter checked his cell phone (WARNING_ BEWARE OF CELL PHONES). He and his "honey" were still calling each other. My daughter called this girl and made a date for lunch. She told the girl that she knew what was going on, and that it HAD to stop. The girl went into a panic because of fear of exposure. My daughter also demanded that her dad tell me. That was on January 15th.
He told me that there had been no intercourse, but admitted to some kissing and touching. That hurt me so! But, not as much as realizing the extent of the emotional attachment that had been formed with her. We went two days later to see a mutual friend who lives in another town. My H confessed to him (he is of the same faith). He asked my H a lot of questions, and arranged to be his accountability partner. I was still reeling!
We went to see my H's counselor twice. She was sweet, and mostly just let us talk. I was in shock! I look back on that month and still shake my head in disbelief. How I managed to get through these three months is a miracle of God.

My husband has been very supportive. My emotions have been anything but predictably controllable. Some days I love him, and some days I am so depressed, and on others I am ANGRY! He has been subjected to my WRATH on more than one occasion, and yet he has continued to come back for more! He has apologized a hundred times.He has talked about going before the church and confessing, but at this point, this will do nothing but destroy this ministry. His people love him so, but I'm sure their confidence in him would be shattered. If my H were not repentant and remorseful, I would PRESS for a confession. In fact, I'd be shouting the news from the housetops!

My OW situation is complicated by the fact that her family also attends our church, and if she leaves, it will surely cause many questions. I am praying that she will find a way to leave. My husband does not want her there anymore, either. He absolutely ignores her. Another of my concerns is for my girls - she continues to try to socialize with them as a part of their Sunday School class, etc. They are feeling the strain of keeping up appearances. Please join me in praying that she leaves!

I have read "Torn Assunder" and found it helpful, but really got more help from a book called What to Do When Your Spouse Says "I Don't Love You Anymore" By David Clarke. I went on the offensive, and instead of being the meek wife that I have always been, I turned into the Grand Inquisitioner! That did something to restore my personhood, and I will admit, also gave me a portion of my "pound of flesh", if you will forgive me for being honest. I believe that the affair is over, and that God is able to mend this. I appreciate your input so much! I will use what you have shared in my recovery. Thank you.

Elena,

It might be wise for your husband to speak to the board or his superiors in private about this, both of you, and ask for prayer, and also consider taking a 'stress' leave from his position for a bit.

In my church, if a pastor has an affair, he has to step down and NEVER BE A PASTOR AGAIN!

He loses his qualifications to minister to a congregation!
He can go to church as just one of the church members but can no longer have a position of authority. This is Biblical not a man-made rule!

This is a public sin (adultery) not just a little transgression!

He has over-stepped and has no business 'preaching' for us to live sin-free lives as much as possible and to try and be Christ-like, pretending that he is pure in his heart.
I am sure he is still lusting for this young babe!

What a mess...What you do or do not forgive in your marriage is up to you but he betrayed his flock also and this needs to be told to the church members and church board immediately.
If you withhold this information it is just wrong!
Sincerely, Julie

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Dear Julie,
I agree that what my husband did was wrong. However, I am reminded that all of us have sinned, in one way or another. I know that God forgives sin, and frankly, sin is sin. A minister is, after all, a man, with a human's imperfections. Yes, my husband fell. No one knows that better than he does. He has prayed for forgiveness from God, and from me, our girls and the OW. I would tell you that I have forgiven him, but that is not totally true. I am in the PROCESS of forgiving him. One thought that has gotten me through this is that I have not been a perfect person either. NO, I have not been unfaithful, but there were times, upon reflection, when I was not what I should have been as a wife. God is faithful to forgive ME. It seems wrong to withold forgiveness! And yet, Julie, there are days when I feel EXACTLY as you expressed yourself. I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would ever be in this position. Until you are there yourself, you just never quite understand the anguish created for ALL involved. Best wishes, Marie Elena

With all due respect, whether or not YOU, the betrayed wife believe his affair is totally over, that he can handle continued contact with the OW, or feels enough remorse already...

It is not for you to decide for the church and congregation.

I think you should definitely speak to the OW's parents because she is so young and you and your husband are in leadership positions! Her parents should know that what she is going through right now and that she was ripe for an affair with a married man! They can't help her if they don't know there's a problem.

I think it is especially important that you set an example for your daughters regarding boundaries of what you will subject yourself to. It should not be expected of you or your daughters to continue having any contact whatsoever with that young woman. Maybe your daughters might be feeling they have to, are expected to, because you're putting up with it? If you find it difficult to stand up for yourself, at least think about your daughters' feelings. Do you really want to give your daughters the message that wives are to shut up and put up?!? Do you want your daughters to think that hiding the affair will make it all OK?

At the very least, your husband should look for another church to pastor at. There really is no excuse to allow things to continue as is.

Have you considered the possibility that the info will leak out somehow anyway? And then how will the congregation and church elders think of your helping to hide the sin? How will the young woman's parents feel when they find out you knew their daughter had a problem but kept it secret from them? How will the other married women feel if she turns to one of their husbands for comfort and then they find out you knew and didn't warn them? If they have no consequences your husband and the OW are very likely to continue their affair and/or to have affairs again. If either of them end up having another affair, with somebody else in the congregation, and THEN it comes out that it wasn't the first time, and you knew they had this weakness, and you helped hide it, you will be partly to blame.

IMO you have no right to keep quiet about this. Talk to your husband's superiors ASAP and let them decide how this is to be handled. Talk to the parents of the OW so they can best decide how to help their daughter avoid such temptation NOW (don't assume it's over yet) and in the future. Do your daughters a big favor and tell them you will no longer subject yourself to being in the OW's presence and that you will support them if they feel that they also want to make that decision.

Obviously (shamefully IMO) your husband and the OW are not considerate enough of your and your daughters' feelings. They are not going to set the necessary boundaries to protect your feelings, let alone to protect your marriage and family. For your sake and for your daughters; sake you must set some very strong boundaries ASAP.

I recently read a very good book entitled "Forgive and Forget". And one example given in the book was of a minister who had an affair. The question of whether or not to expose/confess the affair to the church elders was addressed. It was stressed that forgiveness and consequences are two different matters. Yes, as Christians, we are to forgive. But we are not to confuse forgiveness with enabling or trying to protect the sinners from the consequences. The latter may appear to be 'forgiveness' but it most certainly is not. And it can do serious damage to the sinners to deprive them of the learning experience of having to deal with the consequences. It's the same as when somebody beaks the law, you can forgive them but you have no right to expect them to get to go scott free and not be punished by the law. Find out what the church policy is regarding a pastor committing adultery. THAT is what should happen and it's not for you to decide. Forgive your husband and stand by him during whatever he has coming but don't overstep your authority. You are his wife but you are not his boss. Whoever it is that he did confess to shoudl have todl him he HAS TO confess this to his church superiors ASAP! If they did not advise him to do that then they are in the wrong (and why would you put much faith in them to help him if they are already giving him bad adivse?!?)

You should not allow yourself (or your daughters) to be subjected to the emotional abuse of shutting up and putting up. THAT would be a sin in itself and in no way will help the sinners anyway.

Go ahead and forgive them, but don't take the burden of their consequences off their back and put them on the backs of you and your daughters instead! You can stand by your husband as he works to repair the damage he caused, but don't help him hide it with a bandaid instead of going for the real cure.

Yes, we are to forgive... BUT we are also to confess. It is not enough that he confessed to a couple of people (who are conveniently in no authority over him...and not among the congregation who put their trust in him as a spiritual leader...hmmm). BTW, do the people he's chosen to make himself accountable to know that you and your daughters are being subjected to continued contact with the OW? Do they know marriage builders concepts and how ALL contact between the adulterers has to end? (And no - it is NOT enough for your husband and the OW to simply assure you they don't talk to each other anymore - they have to PROVE it and they have to take every possible preacaution to prevent even accidental contact. So it's not acceptable that they both remain at the same church.)

It's too bad that this will mean that somebody has to switch churches... It is one of the consequences their adultery caused. You should not interfere with those consequences in any way IMO. Forgive, love, support... but don't cover up or clean up for them or they will have no motive to learn from their mistake.

You can learn this from somebody else's warnings or you can learn the hard way like I did. Your husband is assuring you he learned his lesson, he will never do it again, he feels remorse, you can trust him now... blah-blah-blah. My husband said all that and more. But he kept right on having affairs as long as I kept helping him keep his problem hidden. Lookign back I now realize that I should have exposed affair #1, ESPECIALLY to the people who mattered most to him, where it would have cost him the most, embarrassed him the most. Even if it owuld have meant him losing his job... it would have saved our marriage and our family AND his soul. Now I'm pretty sure he will never change, our marriage will never be restored, our daughters will never respect him again, and he will go to hell when he dies (which could be soon because he has cancer and is refusing any treatment - because younger OW would dump him if he had more hair loss or impotence from treatment)

WOW MEREMORTAL!!

Excellent posts!! Couldn't have said it better no matter how hard I tried. Well done!

Marie Elana...take note of those posts. Quit enabling your H and teaching your D's that it's their responsibility to bear the consequences of another's actions. As meremortal said (quite eloquently) there is a difference between forgiveness and consequences.

Ok, I get it...
I agree. My daughters know how I feel. I have been close to a nervous breakdown for the past few weeks, I know. I am getting myself together again, knowing that I have got to take a hard stand. I have said all of the things that you have said, and yet, when it comes right down to it, I know that I am trying to shield my girls and myself from the humiliation that this is sure to cause. Perhaps you are right, meremortal and mgm. It's hard to make a judgement without knowing the players and the parameters, but you are basically right on track.
As to the mental health of the OW, well, she seems to be happy go lucky for the most part. That infuriates me, of course, although I should be big enough to be relieved that she seems to be doing so well. What you said about her doing this again resonated with me, though. I recently found out that she had already had an affair with her boss. So, this adds a new demension to the picture.
I think I need some counseling. I feel emotionally ill at times. Is that normal???
I am going back and forth with what needs to be done!
Thanks for your concern.