ME,

Wow, I am impressed with the courage and strength of your daughters!!! You are blessed to have their support in your life.

I've not seen this mentioned in your thread yet; but it sounds to me like you need to take some time for some "personal recovery". That is completely and totally separate from your marital recovery. Especially necessary since you have the OW and her family at church. Your road to recovery will be more difficult as a result.

Have you considered counseling with one of the Harley's? Steve Harley counseled with my H and I - and I highly recommend him. With what we've learned as a result (far more comprehensive than what you could find on this site or in the books) I really think you could benefit tremendously from his counsel. Especially with possible disclosure looming ahead possibly. There's quite alot at stake - and I think he could help you sort through all the factors to help you and your H make the best decision IN YOUR SITUATION.

You see, we're all only able to give advice based on our experiences. We're limited by what we've learned - yet we can easily identify with how you feel since we've all felt something similar.

I can't tell you how different it is to learn what I've learned from MB counseling. Changed our lives and helped us move more quickly through recovery. Please think about it!! In addition to the BS, SH is excellent with the WS. Best $$$ I've ever spent! Blessings, CSue

Thank you, CSue,
You are right about my girls. They have been so brave! They still love their dad, but are going through their own mourning over this, and are angry with him, which is understandable! We still don't understand why this happened. That's hard on all of us. I don't really think my H really knows, although he had classic "mid life crisis" symptoms. He is having a hard time with aging. That's part of it. I know that I was a good wife. Not a perfect wife, you understand, but a good wife. I was loving and supportive. I praised him. I cared about and for him. I have been active in the ministry, often at his urging. Our daughters loved and respected him. We had a strong family. So, why?
Thanks for the advice. I will look into the counseling that you suggested. How expensive is it, and where are they located?
You are right about the personal recovery. I cry at the drop of a hat. I recently played for a wedding, and I had to slip out the side door during part of the rehearsal; I got so emotional! Thanks again.

Marie, I am almost CERTAIN that if this young OW's parents knew of the affair between her and their pastor, they would NOT want to sit under even one more of his sermons! What do you think?

What if it were your daughter and a pastor or teacher? I know, if it were our daughter and our pastor, we would be out of that church in a heartbeat!
(Or we would make sure the pastor was out of there!)

I am a tender-hearted and forgiving person but when pastors or priests (our spiritual leaders) have affairs, it ruffles my feathers! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Like was said earlier, we can forgive but not condone, they are still responsible for their actions!
Sincerely, Julie
Sweetie Marie, I feel for you...this is not your doing yet you are put in the middle...So sad!

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

You are right. I feel that gut ache again.

It's with some hesitation that I post this reply. This is likely to to really PO some of you.

Marie - you're as much in the fog as your husband.

What church is this? The Church of Hypocrisy Today?

What part of "Thou shalt not...." didn't both of them understand??

He's the Pastor and you're willing to help hide his crime???

Does this remind anyone of what the Catholics have been going through protecting their own????

Marie, you and your daughters are accomplices here. All of you are enabling your husband, the Pastor of the church, to avoid the consequences of his behavior and you're bamboozleing the rest of the congregation. Worse, you're allowing the table to remain set for continuation of the meal - and it won't be YOUR dessert!.

Very foolish.

Suppose the young woman was married? (Though you haven't said so, I'm assuming she's not.) Would you still want to "protect" them?

Clear the table. Tell her parents, establish the conditions for enactment of no contact between your family and the child.

Absolutely pitiful the way some can rationalize the easy way out.

Good Moring Marie.
I (as well as others on this MB) am wondering how things are going today for you.

Did you and H have a discussion about what many here are recommending?

I feel so much empathy for you.
Your situation is different in that your husband is the spiritual leader of his church so he has a responsibility not just to his wife and children but to all the members of the congregation! He messed up BIG TIME yet he did not 'fall' into sin, he chose to 'leap' in!

Sincerely, Julie

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Marie Elena:
<strong> Dear Julie,
I agree that what my husband did was wrong. However, I am reminded that all of us have sinned, in one way or another. I know that God forgives sin, and frankly, sin is sin. A minister is, after all, a man, with a human's imperfections. I am in the PROCESS of forgiving him. One thought that has gotten me through this is that I have not been a perfect person either. NO, I have not been unfaithful, but there were times, upon reflection, when I was not what I should have been as a wife. God is faithful to forgive ME. It seems wrong to withold forgiveness! And yet, Julie, there are days when I feel EXACTLY as you expressed yourself. I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would ever be in this position. Until you are there yourself, you just never quite understand the anguish created for ALL involved. Best wishes, Marie Elena </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marie Elena, yes God forgives the repentent but that does not mean your H is entitled - or qualified - to continue as pastor. The bank robber might be repentent, but forgiveness doesn't mean you give him the keys to the bank.

Nor does your H demonstrate repentence. Saying words to save your butt, when caught red handed, does not demonstrate repentence, but admitting your wrongs to the people you have harmed. If he is truly repentent, he would tell the people he had harmed, ie: his congregation, her parents. But he hasn't.

Instead he compounds the crime by lying to them so they can't make an informed decision about who their pastor is. Y'all choose to lie to them about who he really is because you don't care about them, you only care about covering your H's butt. You don't care if they stay deluded about his character.

That does not speak well for your H's suitability to lead a church, Maria Elena.


Only those who can exercise great self control and leadership should be pastors. He is neither. And lying to the congregation, by omission, will not improve that. I wonder if the congregation would CHOOSE to have him as pastor if they knew the truth about him? Shouldn't they have that right? Or does your H think they should be denied that right? Is his judgement reliable or is it self serving?


I know you are in great pain, but covering up your H's crimes is not the right answer, MariaElena, and I know you know this. You are aiding and abetting his crime. Instead of looking at the real problem, your H, you waste time focusing on this young immature girl.

His congregation should be shattered. They should not be lied to and deluded about who their leader is. That only leaves the door open for him to prey on other young church members.

This is not about his career and his personal interests, Maria Elena. He has a great responsibily to this congregation that supercedes his career aspirations. He is also responsible to God and he is hiding behind a veil of secrecy.

Unfortunately, you can't hide from God....

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I would also suggest to you that you are playing Russian roulette with your little secret. You are foolishly depending on a young, immature girl to keep your secret. Surely you don't think the secret will stay with her? She is probably telling all her girlfriends.

It will get out and her parents will find out.

Ask him if he would rather tell them himself about this affair, or would he prefer they find out from their 23 year old child that their beloved pastor preyed upon their daughter?

It is insane to think he can keep this secret, MariaElena, and when it comes out, it won't be pretty. If he is really concerned about his career, he would admit it volunarily to minimize the fallout.

At least his honest admission would be an advantage to his career. If they find out he has LIED TO THEM in addition to having an affair, it will ruin his career.

A lot of churches don't necessarily have "superiors" and maybe that's the situation so that needs to be ruled "out." I think you have already forgiven him and that's why your here.

as far as counseling, it's all done by phone it's $185.00 an hour. you will probably need at least 2 sessions because most of the first session is "telling your story." of course if you can afford more than 2 you should do it. it doesn't matter if it's just you, it would help if your H was on board as well but you have to come to a point to in your recovery in order to recover your M. i think you have heard enough about exposure and what you need to do (tell her parents w/your H if possible and the congregation needs to know). MB counselors will give you immediate professional feedback specific to your situation. SH from MB really considers what your belief systems are and what your goals are to counsel you. If for example, you say you want to be Christ-like and want to do what God's will then he uses that to help you.

much prayers to you in this world of pain, life is a bed of roses because it's full of thorns. remember if you are patient in one moment of anger, you will escape a hundred days of sorrow. remember God tells to be slow to anger but he also tells us we will reap what we sow (your H needs to feel some of his sowing), and that no matter what happens that God is allowing things to happen for a reason because He has a plan for us.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Hi Roughroad.
I read back through all of Marie's posts and I do not see anywhere that the girls parents were talked to.

She mentioned her own daughters talking to their Dad (the unfaithful cheating pastor) and told him he had to tell their Mom...(Marie, the innocent one!)

Re-read and see if you agree that this is the scenerio.
Sincerely, Julie

nope your right, i'll edit my post, guess i got it confused w/another one i read. thanks for pointing it out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Marie Elena,

First, I'm very sorry for your pain and what you've been through. You've come to the best place for support and help in dealing with infidelity.

I do have a question for you:

If you belonged to a congregation where your H was not the pastor, and the pastor was married and having an affair with one of your 20-something daughters, would you not want to be told?

Don't you feel you should have the right to know and hence make an informed choice as to who is spiritually leading your family. Why would you think the members of your H's congregation deserve anything less?

Jo

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

This situation really gets to me and is one of many reasons why I wonder what Churches really are and who goes there. I am sure there are many well meaning people and people who go becuase they "inherited" te religion of their parents. But I wonder if they know what it means to really follow Christ. I have been so disappointed seeing precisely several situations like this where church leaders act immorally and irresponsibly. Then, it is as if nothing ever happened because we are told "they are forgiven by the grace of God", or "do not throw the first stone", or "Christ would want us to forgive". Uffffff...........

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Why-me?:
<strong> This situation really gets to me and is one of many reasons why I wonder what Churches really are and who goes there. I am sure there are many well meaning people and people who go becuase they "inherited" te religion of their parents. But I wonder if they know what it means to really follow Christ. I have been so disappointed seeing precisely several situations like this where church leaders act immorally and irresponsibly. Then, it is as if nothing ever happened because we are told "they are forgiven by the grace of God", or "do not throw the first stone", or "Christ would want us to forgive". Uffffff........... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WhyMe, it wasn't a church that did this, it was a MAN and a WOMAN. The Bible is admamently against adultery. I assure you that his church does not condone adultery. Where churches are guilty is when they allow pastors like this to stay in power and prey on other members. However, that is not the case here because this pastor is lying about his affair and continues to cover it.

So please lets place the blame where the blame belongs.

Mel - ya know I respect ya, Hon.

My criticism here is not with what the Pastor and young girl did - well, in addition to what they did, it's that the wife and daughters are hiding behind the Church/faith to keep the affair secret! They're actually using the religion to rationalize NOT to follow their religion!

'nuff said.

Let's help some others.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> Mel - ya know I respect ya, Hon.

My criticism here is not with what the Pastor and young girl did - well, in addition to what they did, it's that the wife and daughters are hiding behind the Church/faith to keep the affair secret! They're actually using the religion to rationalize NOT to follow their religion!

'nuff said.

Let's help some others.

WAT </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAT, and I don't disagree with that at ALL! It just goes to my point that it is not religion that is the problem, but the folks who abuse it. And that is exactly what is happening here.

Lets just say that Marie decides that her H's secret affair with the 20-something female member of his church should be dealt with in terms of his on-going status as pastor.

I have tried to put myself in her shoes, and I know simply the fact he has cheated is so much to deal with, in of itself. She's in a really bad place right now.

So what would you suggest she do, encourage him to resign? I wonder if he would.

Jo

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Marie - Before addressing your issues in your new post, Mad at myself, let's finish this one.

Have you and your daughters chosen to continue to help hide your husband's affair?

WAT

<small>[ April 26, 2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Dear WAT,
My husband went before his deacon board and offered his resignation. Surprisingly, they refused. Instead of resigning, he stepped down from his leadership position and they have allowed him to take a sabatical. He is pursuing treatment, and will not be back for several weeks.
Because there was no intercourse, the Biblical guidelines for "fornication" were not crossed. He is a very humbled man because of the mercy that he has been shown by these men, and is determined to become a different kind of person than he was pre-A.
Wat, my husband has been suffering from burnout for years. He had been receiving treatment for depression right before this episode, but had stopped his med's because of the side effects (this paved the way for an even BIGGER side effect - the A). In the ministry, at least in our denomination, pastors don't get too much time off. I know that last year, we tried to get away for a week on two different ocassions. We had to return the second day because a church member had died the first time, and had to cancel the last one because he had to officiate at the wedding of a deacon's daughter. He had gone 6 years without more than a three or four day break. I'm not making excuses for him, that's just the way it is. Being a minister is much like being a doctor in that you are always "on call", and with a good sized congregation, that alone can keep you hopping.

We are working to change some of this by delegating more to laymen (my husband was doing far too much) and this will be a help.

Did my daughters and I reveal the affair to the whole congregation? No. I still contend that this would do nothing but cause injury to many innocent people. Now, if this had been a full blown PA, that's a different story. This was mostly phone calls, with face to face contact at a minimum. Still not a good thing, I know, but not as bad as it could have been, either, but still enough to drive me crazy and hurt me as I have never been hurt in my 53 year old life.

By the way, if you read some of my other postings you will know that this "child" was not the innocent little thing that we all had assumed. I recently discovered that she is involved again with her boss. Thats one of the parts that REALLY bothers me. I can't just stand back and let this happen to someone else if I can do something to stop it. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to do something!

ME -

I have 2 young daughters. We are members of a church and my children adore our pastor and his family. They happen to be some of our closest friends. In the situation you are in this "young girl" probably looked up to your H. I'm not putting him at fault here. It's obvious she has serious self esteem issues. But you H was in a position to help her.

He was put in a situation with this young lady where he could have chosen to witness to her and help her with her troubled ways. She is a troubled girl (you can sub the title tramp here if it makes you feel better...I probably would. I would venture to say that she initiated the relationship by flirting....it probably caught your H off guard. Then he started feeling flattered that someone of her age was paying attention to him.

He convinced himself that he was not happy in her M or for whatever reason he validated this relationship....and allowed her attention to boost his ego. As a BS I want to put all the blame on the OW...not saying that is what you are doing at all. But that was how I felt in the beginning. I didn't want to think that my H would ever do this to me. It had to be that hag OW that drew him away from me.

It took some time for me to accept the fact that I played a role in the A. I was not giving my H all he needed at home. That was a tough one to swallow for me.

Bottom line your H took advantage of this situation. He is an a position of leadership and should have helped her. Instead he hurt her. Again, I'm not saying she is innocent. She'll continue to act like this and ruin other Ms as long as she is enabled by BS's and friends that do not expose her actions.

You owe all the other BSs that this women will surely hurt to expose her actions to her family.

To continue my first thought....

I want my girls to be able to trust our pastor. I want to know that if they go to him he will be there for them. He should turn them away from sin and welcome them into the arms of Jesus Christ. If they appear vulnerable he should use his position to show them the love of our God and teach them how to turn their lives over to him. If this was my daughter I would be livid.

For the sake of the other young women in the congregation I would recommend that your H take a long hard look at his career path. I'm sure he will find himself in this situation again. This is a position of power and power is an attraction for many people.

God forgives all. You are a very strong woman and you are blessed with very strong children. You can use this situation to help others. Make something good come out of this. Let others learn a lesson from your pain. Do not let this chance go by...witness to others about this. You may be able to stop this from happening. Let your pain speak to the members of the church. All things happen for a reason. In God's arms.