TOOMANYLIES:

I know you wrote this awhile back, but holy cow! Since I am a guy this is the worst thing I've ever had to swallow!

Geez, you made a hek of a lot of sense!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

imagine you meet someone who uses you to feed their ego or for financial reasons or just to help them out of a bad marriage. YOU could be ANYONE, it doesn't matter! SHE wants something from you (DO NOT fool yourself into thinking it was sex! It was something other than that) She was using you for a selfish need and did not care whether it hurt you your family or her family.

Imagine the person you meet isn't real, she's acting. She PRETENDS to be someone she really isn't. She PRETENDS that you are Mr. wonderful when she KNOWS that you AREN'T (if you WERE you wouldn't be cheating on your wife and unless she is as dumb as a rock she knows this)

This person doesn't give two s#its about your day, but she will hang on your every word and try to make you THINK she does. She has an agenda and it requires her to fake it. Gotta be on your best behavior when competing with another woman (the wife) since she needed an ego boost by proving to herself that she is SUCH an amazing woman that she could cause a man to betray his wife for her, she had to put in the extra effort to show him how great she could be (PUKE!)

Imagine that if this were a person who cared about you, would she have done this? REALLY? would she complicate your life and do something that (unless she's an idiot) she knows will cause you a great deal of trouble, and may cost you your marriage, or will end in your loving her when she obviously doesn't feel that for you (look at her current behavior)

imagine putting the same effort into the woman who you would trust "if you took her to the desert and handed her a million dollars and a gun" the woman who LOVES you! What an amazing sex life that could be!

one more thing, if you were to take the OW out to the middle of the desert, hand her a million dollars and a gun, with a guarantee that no one would ever know what happened to you what do you think would happen? I'll bet you wouldn't be back to post tomorrow </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Why am I the Whiteknight, huh? You really want to know. Wow, there are lots of reasons.


Well, since the QUOTE is from LEWIS CARROLL, it is quite obvious that The White Knight is a character in Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Carroll. Based on the chess-piece, this character is a bumbling do-gooder with a penchant for useless inventions.

In reference to believing impossible things. Well, let's just say that as a WS, I believed and tolerated things from the OP that I never in a million years would have believed or tolerated from anyone else in the world!!!!!

A White Knight has also been defined in psychological terms as someone who ties to help others that may or may not need to be saved. I guess in a lot of ways I felt real sorry for OW. She had some real aweful stories to tell me about being molested as a child, having nothing, being ignored by her husband, etc. Maybe these things were lies. Maybe they weren't. Either way, I tried to help. Yes, I know. her probelms should not have become my problems. The time I spent trying to save her, I could have spent trying to build and save my marriage.

However, thanks to those of you who agree that I shouldn't have to beg my W for sex and attention. I really don't know how I can go through the rest of my life with someone who does NOT have any interest in sex at all. Am I really supposed to resign myself into submission and just look forward to masterbating when she's not home? Is that the type of life I should have, just so I can have a nice and kind W who I vowed to stick with through good times and bad. Yes, I know I am in no position to make demands, but for crying out loud --- she still does not know and we have no sex life. Wow, what an excuse she's going to have when I finally tell all!

I better start a subscription to Playboy!

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight ]</small>

Hey, I just wanted to pop in and add my voice to those who appreciate your openness in your OP.

4 years ago, my Wife and I were here at MB because I had a three month physical affair with one of my clients. Part of my healing process was to post here and help (through offering insight mostly) other posters as best I could. After D-day, OW went very vengeful, though not as bad as yours.

Now I'm here as the betrayed. Having experienced this whole horrifying affair thing from both sides, I have to say that in many ways I'm having an easier time dealing with being the betrayed spouse than I did dealing with being the wayward.

I think that if you want to save your marriage, you have BIG work ahead of you. I think you know that. My advice would be to come totally clean.

Realize that nothing short of total commitment to repairing the damage and ensuring that this never happens again will suffice. Half efforts will get you half results and as I have learned, that will lead you both to a place where what you are going through now will seem like a cakewalk.

As for your Wife sharing this issue with others...

Someone once posted about the difference between shame and guilt. Shame is when the pain of realizing you've done something wrong comes from within. Guilt is when the pain comes from without.

It is the difference between humility and pride.

Nobody likes to be judged. Particularily when we do something horrible. Being willing to face that judgement is important.

Just had to add my bit.

dewt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whiteknight:
<strong> However, thanks to those of you who agree that I shouldn't have to beg my W for sex and attention. I really don't know how I can go through the rest of my life with someone who does NOT have any interest in sex at all. Am I really supposed to resign myself into submission and just look forward to masterbating when she's not home? Is that the type of life I should have, just so I can have a nice and kind W who I vowed to stick with through good times and bad. Yes, I know I am in no position to make demands, but for crying out loud --- she still does not know and we have no sex life. Wow, what an excuse she's going to have when I finally tell all!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe for the time being...

Read more on this site. This board and site are more than about surviving infidelity. Four years ago I missed that message and lo and behold, here I am again.

When we talk about ensuring that an affair doesn't happen again, we're talking about building a marriage where the conditions that allow/encourage an affair to develop are not present.

You could say you had an affair because she did not meet your sexual needs. (I did) Your wife could say that she did not feel romanticly inclined towards you because you didn't pay attention to her (just an example). You could then say you didn't pay attention to her because she... and you could go on and on, throwing justifications back and forth forever...

What if you played that loop from a different direction. What if you and your wife learned how to meet each others needs. What if she was hot for you because you made her feel like a queen by doing x and y, which you wanted to do anyways because she did z and what if you could play that loop back forever?

Keep your perceptions straight my friend. You need to fan away this 'fog' (hate that term) and see clearly. Then you will find your path.

dewt

WK--

Thank you for sharing your story regarding your signature quote (as well as your user name).

I have a very inquisitive mind-- and rather enjoy hearing other's reasonings as to why a certain quote/poem/song, etc. strikes their fancy!

Thank you for clearing up the mystery! ~Marie

Hi WK
Just wanted to pop in and post as you were one that posted to me in my time of need. Thank you.

I have read this entire thread (Long time to read) I do understand what your original post was posted for and the intention behind it. You are obviously not the type of person to post stuff to intentionally hurt others.

I know for sure you are NOT a selfish person.You may have been guring your affair, but that was then and this is now.

However you really must tell your wife (but you know that already). If she needs support bring her here, we will all help her over this.

By all means ask her to not disclose the affair, my hubby asked me to keep it between us and I did because I knew that the shame and guilt that he felt was hard enough on him without having to be judged by family, friends, etc. Only problem with that was I didn't have the support system I needed. Then I found this site and this site became my mum,brothers,kids,friends (all rolled into one) Your wife is certainly going to need a support system and we can be there for her.

I wish you well, I have you both in my prayers.
cheers
mtheart

I too have read entire thread. WhiteKnight I have to admit everything that was said about OP, I have felt. I am going thru withdrawal & have not told H of PA. I cant & wont at this point. I am trying to get thru 1 day at a time. I tried to email OM & it was returned & today I called his cell# & left 3 messages. All I can think of is trying to call him again tomorrow. I feel limited as to what I share here because everyone says to confess, I would like a place for WS to chat too.Maybe I am still in my "fog" I thought it had lifted but my mind is pre-occupied all the time. I am also on AD-effexor, 150mg, I feel I cant cope. some days its good, some days I want to cry & have him love me again-pal

Dear praceandlove
I feel for you I realy do, but please for your own sanity go no contact with the OM, you can not be going through withdrawel until you withdraw!

If you want to end the affair, you must stop emailing and calling him. NC is the only way to go, then allow yourself to go through the withdrawel stage. You are still in the fog and until you give up contact with OM you will remain in the fog.

At this point disclosing the affair to your H is not your major priority, ending it is.
JMHO.

Keep posting, there are many people here that will guide you through this and be able to help you make the smart choices you need to make.

Best of luck to you
mtheart

WK,

I gotta tell you, your description from your perspective has helped me a great deal interact with my W. It has been 1 day over 3 weeks since I confronted my W, and I have made mistakes that I should have avioded. I can appreciate that it is hard on her end, while she had the passion of the A, she also has to leave that for the commitment of her family. I will never be able to duplicate or compete with the OM on some things. He met needs that I will NEVER be able to compete with, so I guess I gotta be the best H that I can be.

Thanks again for your perspective, sorry so many piled on. There is enough pain here to power Manhatten, remember that when someone flames you. We are all in a hard spot, otherwise we would not be here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am trying to get thru 1 day at a time. I tried to email OM & it was returned & today I called his cell# & left 3 messages. All I can think of is trying to call him again tomorrow.


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PAL: No, no. no. Please do not ry to contact him again. I know it is awful, but it is for the best in the end. Honestly, nothing good can come of it. Not anymore. Those days are passed. I'll tell you something that I sometimes tell myself to make me feel better, to show you how much the addiction has affected me. I have a friend who is a psychologist. He told me that the reason my OW started acting so nuts before I broke up with her, and why she is acting so vindictive now is NOT because she hated me for ruining her life, but because she LOVED me so much, she could not tolerate the idea of my ever leaving her and being with someone else.

I must admit it makes me feel better to feel LOVED by her still, instead of HATED; and every once and awhile the fantasy pops into my head of seeing her again, and holding her hand, and maybe even being in bed with her, and just looking into my friend's eyes and apologizing for why things did not work out. But this is a sickness.

Our A was a distraction. If I met her when I was single I would have thought she was cute and I would have spent some time with her as a friend, and maybe had sex. But I would NEVER have considered someone like that as a life long partner. If my head wuld have been clearer when I met her, I would have seen that she would have been more trouble than she would have been worth. And I say this even though I have the "White Knight" syndrome.

Maybe she thought she was smart to do all this legal nonesense because she KNEW that it would keep us from ever seeing each other again and that keeps her from thinking about contacting me; but all OP and WS should know that this can be done. You will find someone else to be happy with. You will. Don't sweat it. Look at your relationship with him as if you went to college. YOu spent some time there you met some great people, but graduation has come. A whole new world of opportunities await you. Take some steps forward and turn the corner. I'm right beside you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I feel limited as to what I share here because everyone says to confess, I would like a place for WS to chat too.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TOW s*cks! I went to that sight for the first time a couple of days ago. It's --- to put it gently --- "low class." I felt like I was at a truck stop. Yes, there are some stories there, but it is very self-centered. Everyone chats about movies and cars and video gamkes and stuff. It's basically a meat market of cheaters, I think. Avoid that place like the plague.

I like it here better. Great people and lots of wisdom all about.

Keep checking in. I'm not going anywhere. Knock on my door. I'm always home for you or anyone else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will never be able to duplicate or compete with the OM on some things. He met needs that I will NEVER be able to compete with, so I guess I gotta be the best H that I can be.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BETRAYED MAN:

And always remember that OM will never be able to duplicate or compete with you. Your W and family are yours now and hopefully forever. You have a long road behind you and a long road ahead of you, and your W is there beside you; in your memories and in every other way. That is something no one can take away.

You have what it takes to make her happy. Just ask her what those things are. And tell her everything you want her to know about how to meet your needs.

Of course, I wish I could take my own advice. How in the world I let my sex life with W get so bad; I do not know.

what is TOW? Just wondering...

captain's wife:

TOW is THE OTHER WOMAN. It's a site a few people told me to pop over to. It's where OM / and OW can hang out and talk about their experiences. I was amazed how many over there were hooked up with the H and how happy they were; despite the fact that they destroyed families. It's a disgusting place to be. I felt like a bar fight would breka out any minute. I wanted to take a shower after logging off that sight. It made me even more ashamed that I ever did what I did. It's a club where I am welcome, but do not want to belong to.

WK,

My WH said something to me last night and I have asked Hiker who is a FWS and Lostbird also, no reply yet. He said that he feels like he is two different people in one body. He feels like someone else when he is with her, and another person when he is with us and his family at the farm (mom and brothers). Do you recognize this? Did you feel like two different people in one body? He cried and said he didn't know where he belonged anymore. I don't know what to make of that statement.

Hiker says it was familiar to him. He did feel like two people in a sense. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks. Although I was speechless, I think your honesty and your intentions were in the right place. I think it just shocked me to read it right there in front of my face like that.

NY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WH said that he feels like he is two different people in one body. He feels like someone else when he is with her, and another person when he is with us and his family at the farm (mom and brothers). Do you recognize this? Did you feel like two different people in one body? He cried and said he didn't know where he belonged anymore. I don't know what to make of that statement.

NY </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, maybe my comment about WS feeling like they were kidnapped by aliens and lost their way has actual relevance in your H case! He's not glowing in the dark, is he? Two people in one body, huh?
Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood.

OK, here's what I think. He feels DIFFERENT when with her. His daily outine is different. Although my W and I are young and we have $ and can do lots of things, she likes to sit home and watch TV. She loves all those Decorating shows on HDTV, etc. We were never the type to go out to clubs or whatever, so it was no big deal. But when I was with OW, she felt trapped in her house for years. So she and I went on on "dates." It was fun. We went to parks and climbed into trees and kissed. We went to the beach and held hands. We went out to dinner. I fet like a different person because I was doing fun things again. Familiar things became new again.

I guess that is why all BS want to know 100% of everything about the A, as painful as it is. You need to find out what WS is up to, what is he doing that makes him feel "different." Truth be told, I would have easily done those things with W, but she just didn't seem interested. It was fun to be with someone who wanted to do things.

What things can you do with H?

I know a lot of people beat up on me and said thay don't want to change because they are not the OP and don't want to try to be. But even COCO COLA created a NEW COKE, and then also offered people the CLASSIC COKE, and a CHERRY COKE and VANILLA COKE. And no one is going to say that COCA COLA isn't a success story.

Hope that helps. If not, I'll try again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> TOW s*cks! I went to that sight for the first time a couple of days ago. It's --- to put it gently --- "low class." I felt like I was at a truck stop. Yes, there are some stories there, but it is very self-centered. Everyone chats about movies and cars and video gamkes and stuff. It's basically a meat market of cheaters, I think. Avoid that place like the plague.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was wondering what TOW was too, so I typed in google The Other Woman...do you know that it was the first site that came up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I went there and was absolutely appalled! i wish I never went there. The nerve of these woman. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

WK,

Yes that helps. After he said that he said he never felt like he could be himself with me. Which I thought was strange because when I was with my first H, he wanted me to be just like his mother. So when I met WH I told him, this is me! I am not going to be anybody but me. Of course I had my problems too. I was raped in the late eighties. Before I married either. I never told either. It was something I put in a box and never shared, I kept it to myself. I like you had an okay sex life, but it was never a hang from the ceiling type. It never will be either. That is just not who I am. I can't be something I am not. I thought for the last 10 years I was with the real H. Obviously he was being someone he wasn't. He isn't himself with her either. He doesn't talk to her about anything. He didn't tell her it was our anniversary, or that I was the one that cut his hair last week. So he is still living lies with her.

As far as the aliens....they still have him up there. I wonder if scotty can beam him down for me?

NY

NY:

That's interesting what you wrote about H wanting you to be like his mother. I am about to write something that is so sick and disgusting that i just might leave you speechless again. In fact, this might even be interesting enough for a whole new post so everyone can see that maybe I need more medication or something. But, here goes ...

A friend of mine once told me that he realized that all of his girlfriends looked and acted like his mom, and that he broke up with the last one because he woke up in the middle of the night on time and looked at his nake girlfriend and in his half-awake state, he thought he was looking at his mother! It freaked him out.

Following that, I realized that most of my girlfriends sort of resembled my mom in looks and personality. After hearing that (I was 19) I always remembered what he said. Maybe that's why I never really had a great SEX life with all my girlfriends and W, but I was always very attentive and affectionate with them. Weird, huh?

Meanwhile, the OW did not look or act like my mom at all, and I was much more relaxed and free with her than anyone else I had ever been with.

I have no idea what any of the relevance of any of this is. I am not a psychologist. But I wonder how many BS remind WS of their mom or dad ... or how many OP remind WS of thier mom or dad.

Maybe I'm on to something. Maybe I have too much free time. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

NY-
I definitely can't speak for your H and what he feels or means by what he says... but when you said that he told you he felt like 2 different people, I recalled feeling that way. I was very different with the OM than with my H. Over the years of our M we fell into a pattern of my H always being the one that was right. What he said was law. If he said do it, it got done. If he said no, then it didn't happen. If he didn't agree with me, then I was wrong. This was my perception of things, anyway. I felt squashed... like I wasn't me anymore. I learned to be (mostly) what he expected of me. When I started my A's, I gradually started to find out who I was again. I was able to be myself. I was allowed to have my own opinions and choose what I would and would not do. I was a totally different me when I was with other men. I was 2 different people. My H and I are learning a great deal about what went wrong in our M... and we are working very hard on fixing those things. I am learning to be myself with my H again.
I just wanted to share what came to mind when I read your post...
CW

WK,

The H that wanted me to be like his M is my ExH. Not my current WH. But no it didn't leave me speechless at all. I can imagine stuff like that does happen. Frazier had show like that, where there was a woman that reminded him of his mother or something like that.

CW,

I appreciate your input. After reading what you wrote and sitting here for a mere second I realized that I have always treated my WH like a child. Like he was one of the kids instead of a grown man. I always made the decisions. I was always right. I mean I was always right. He would argue with me, but I always turned out to be right in the end, even if he didn't listen to me and this really p!ssed him off all the time. Just like this A. I told him when he left he would want to come back because no one would take care of him like I do. I was right. I hate that I am right. I just happen to be a very sensible, intelligent person, with common sense also. Sometimes I hate that about me. I was always ahead a grade in school, I graduated two years early. I am by no means a genius, but I am educated and he is well not educated in the book sense. He is very mechanically inclined, very crafty. But common sense wise he is lacking, and I was always there to move things along. I would ask him if he wanted something, like when we refinanced the house....I asked him, he said yeah lets do it. We did it and in the end it was a big hassle because the house ended up needing to be sided for the bank and all and it all ended up being my fault he had so much work. Our M was such a mess from the start.

The problem is I can see every single mistake that I made in our marriage. I mean every single one, but it is too late now. He has went and left and he never even told me he was unhappy. Now he is spending nights with someone else, he has ruined everything we worked so hard for and I have told him I know where my mistakes are and he doesn't care now. He doesn't want to fix it because he is free now. He has no responsibilities except to pay monetarily. He works and pays the money to me and he likes his job, so to him it is not really work. He up and walked out on everything. He is free to do whatever he wants. I on the other hand am here picking up the pieces left of the hurricane Matt and the emotional pieces and hurt of two children to boot.

I know what you mean by two people now. I appreciate your input I really do. I can see how he says he feels like two people. But he says he doesn't know where he belongs. I think in the long run he will choose to come home, but will I want him by then?

NY