Dear Knight,

The mom thing sounds like a whore/madonna perspective to me. But of course I am no psychologist and don't really know what it matters anyway.

I have been thinking about your orignal post and as I said before I know where you are coming from. I would like to point out that not all A's start because of LB or neglected emotional needs. The White Knight syndrome is interesting because my husband has some classic traits. He loved to indulge in "saving" pathetic OW as an escape to reality. Not that reality was all that bad but he developed a bad habit from a young age.

I was so naive. I couldn't understand what was going on. Cheating was a coping mechanism for him. Just about every year for seven or eight years he cheated on me. I was a wonderful wife to him, supportive, sexy, smart...everything. He would say so himself. It truly wasn't me. He liked the quick fix. The normal ups and downs of daily life-not even marriage related sent him running to some helpless gf. I was not helpless, I had family, education, money, beauty all on my side. He didn't need to save me so I didn't fit into his escapist fantasies. It took me years to understand that...to understand that he saw me that way. Truth was, I wasn't strong. I couldn't live without him...stood by him through legal battles when he fathered a child with a ONS...stood by him when he cheated again and again until it almost killed me-literally...I had been through one too many drama's and almost died. At this point I was ready to see him go. Pathetic I know. This was the turning point for us. That moment of clarity. No more.

You talked about being everything in the bedroom to please your WS...funny thing is I was. Please don't misunderstand my post as arrogant-truly this is not my intent. I only want to point out that not all BS lose track of their WS needs. I know they have in your case but not always. Your list of bedroom antics, being tied up, positions, etc, etc. been there done that before I was ever aware of his other life. There was not much I wouldn't/haven't tried. I truly was everything/anything he wanted sexually-still am. And this is a terribly hard thing to deal with...if his affairs could be explained or understood so easily I would be thankful. It is much more demoralizing to a BS who has "hung from the chandeliers" so to speak to realize that you've followed the rules and still end up the loser. Don't misunderstand me I am not perfect, and I have changed in many respects...some not for the better. It would have been easier for me to say "Oh I need to have more sex with him" than it was to say "I need to hold him accountable and realize that he has character flaws that only he can change"

Your post has made me think alot.


ayslyne

WK,
Just started reading your post. Got through about the first 2 1/2 pages. Will read more of the responses later, but just wanted to send this off now before I have to go out.

After reading your initial post I was pretty sure of what reaction(s) would be coming; and I wasn't far off.

Although my own emotions (as a BS) really cringe to read your thoughts and actions in your A, I do want to THANK YOU for having the courage to post here even knowing of all the pain and anger present.

Just for me, it was enlighting to get the real scoop, straight from a cheater themself. Too many of our own WS like to edited and downplay how they really thought or felt. (Or just continue to outright lie).

So it is refreshing to just get the straight and honest Truth! (In your opinion). This doesn't mean I like or agree with everything you have to write. But I DO Appriciate your doing your best to open up & to let me see into that secret world of A's.

Hope that your not too angry or wounded to keep coming back. The WS viewpoint can be a help to many of us here. I know I'd like to read more of it, just for my own insight and recovery. I feel I don't have to agree with something to learn from it.

Many here are taking their own pain & hurt out on you, a total stranger. Perhaps in your own way, you are letting them rage and vent on you (a stranger) and thereby letting them NOT take out their pain on their own WS. So without inteding too, your helping their marriage in an indirect way. Thanks & Take care.

Wow, how in the world did I become sucha popular guy? Thanks everyone for all the feedback and support. We're all here to help each other.

Ayslyne --- I appreciatehearing your story. It just goes to show you that there are plenty of reaosns why WS do the things they do. Sure, I can use the excuse that my W is like having sex with a corpse in the morgue; but obviously your H didn't have that excuse. He had another. Or others. So this just proves that there are no easy explantions for what happened or what easy answers to fix things. I guess that's where the HONESTY kicks in again, if you can get it. After all, if you can't get honesty from your S, then what's the use of moving on? That being said, what's the use of a WS hooking up permanently with OP; because the whole foundation of that relationship is built on a sandy dune of lies.

Some of you may ave noticed I have quotes John Lennon or the Beatles a few times. Well, once Paul was asked by a journalist, "Is love reall all you need?" And this was years after that song came out and he ansered, "Honesty is more important." And he was right. Unfortunately, "Honesty is all you need" isn't a very good lyric for a song. Wait! Billy Joel thought so!!!!

WN, I only posted to you once. I really appreciate your honest. I am a BS, probably I am like your W, cold in sex. I refused him so many times, that was his major complain.

Now his A woke me up, I learn so much. I learn that I was using sex as an revenge waepon to him, becasue I don't know how to deal with other issues. I tell you this is to let you to find out what make your W feel like this. Maybe affection, family commitment etc.

all this hurt from so many people. I can feel the pain from everyone tonite. I did call OM again today-6 times! I am crazy-the intensity wont let go of me. I want to know what he is doing-what he thinking, when he had sex with his wife last. I NEED to talk to him for a fix. I tell myself not to call, I am being desperate-I know this, but it is consuming me. I told him on voicemail I would keep calling until he picks up-now I have to follow thru with my threat. He hates me I know, he has Unloved me. I think about running my fingers thru his hair and going down on him while taking a shower together, I too am sick, my addiction is taking me over & no one knows but me-pal

PAL:

Please take our advice and STOP calling him. Believe me, you are going to freak him out and you are going to POISON any special memories he or you might walk away with. He is going to start thinking you are nuts and someone close to him is going to suggest that he file for a restraining order or something, and you DO NOT want that. Believe me.

You need to get some DIFFERENT Anti-Ds. Go to an emergency clinic tomorrow, tell the Dr. what you are going through and you'll get a prescription. I never wanted to be medicated my entire life. I never believed in it; but believe me, it works wonders.

You need to grab a piece of paper and plan your life 10 years in advance. Jot down a list of things you've always wanted to do and start focusing on them. Do things that will make you proud of you, and others proud of you.

The first few weeks and months were very bad for me, but the pain does get less intense. I used to think I never wanted the pain to end because it would mean that I stopped caring about someone I cared so much about, but that;s how life is. Did you cry when your childhood pet died? Most people o. Do you still cry over it? No. Humans are resilient. You are stronger than you know.

Anytime you want to contact him, contact me instead. I'm here for you. Let it go, honey. My OW KILLED any good memory I can ever really have of her because she is obsessing over me. Please don't do the same. Remember, he is probably in a lot of pain too. Maybe he cares so much about you that he doesn't want you to waste any more of your time and life.

Check back in and let me know you are OK. No more contact with him, ok?

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight ]</small>

Pal
Are you here to end your affair?

Do you love your husband?

Do you want to save your marriage?

This site is all about SAVING your marriage, if you have no intention of ending the affair, I question your motives for being on the site.

You have already stated "I know he hates me"......Well what the he!! are you even thinking of contacting him for?

Next time you daydream about that shower scene.......try imagining him looking down at you whilst you are pleasing him and he thinking "I hate you woman, but I enjoy using you up"......because thats what he IS DOING.

Pal, if you are here to end the affair and rescue your marriage, lets know.
We can help you but you need to want the help first!

Cheers
mtheart

mtheart:

I did a search on PEACEANDLOVE and she started telling her story in another post but did not finish it. Seems like she has told her H about an EA ut not the PA. OM is married, and lives in another state, so it is over. She claims she will confess all IF her H asks, but not before. I'm in the same boat. It's a tough decision, but one we WS know we have to do. We owe the BS that respect. I want to help PAL. She is terribly upset. She is where I was a few months ago. The pain is incredible. But she has been married for 26 years, since she was 17 and obviously loves her H, but WITHDRAWEL is throwing her this way and that.

Where are you, PAL? Let us know the rest of your story and your gameplan. We're here to help ya. And you can help others here too by explaining just how powerful your Withdrawel is. It would be interesting to hear it from a female perspective.

<small>[ April 15, 2004, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight ]</small>

Thanks WK,
I did read pals post, but the point I am trying to impress on her is that she has NOT ENDED the affair, granted she may not be seeing OM now, but until she STOPS trying to contact him, the affair has not ended.
I believe her withdrawl has not begun yet because she has not withdrawn from the situation, she is more in the fog than withdrawl.

I do understand he not wanting to tell her Husband, but right now thats not what her priority is, her main priority is to stop trying to CONTACT this jerk. Until she can do that, she can't begin the process of getting over the affair and getting on with the withdrawl.

Hope I am making sense.
I have been married 25yrs,also married at 17, I would hate for her to lose all of this because she can't resist contacting a person whom she admits hates her.

So very sad this one.
In my prayers
mtheart

mtheart:

You're right. She is still IN her A. If OM contacts her, she'll dive right back in probably. NC is the first step. Until then, she's going to keep trying to get that fix. I know what's she going through. I had my fantasy for awhile too. I wondered what would happen if I could just see OW again. Sometimes it was unbearable. But she'll be OK. She just doesn't realize it yet. That's what's so great about being here. So many have BEEN THERE DONE THAT and a lt can be learned from other people's experiences.

Bumped for "toomanylies". This is the post you are looking for.

Wow, I am coming across like a real computer illiterate tonight but .... what does BUMPED mean?

LOL. "toomanylies" was looking for this post so I "Bumped" it up to the top of the page by posting to it so that she would be able to find it.

Thanks Mtheart for bumping this up for me, and whiteknight for giving me directions.

I agree with everyone. PAL you HAVE to go NC NOW or you are going to find yourself in a BAD place!
You can't force him to talk to you. He CAN file a restraining order to keep you from calling. 6 times in one day followed by a threat of the calls continuing until he picks up is harrassment. He wants to be with his wife. He obviously doesn't want to lose her over the A so let him go!

all of your words make sense-but my heart does not understand what my head is telling it. I am done with A-he lives WAY far from me-so no chance of seeing him-just talking. thats all I want-just to hear his voice & tell me is OK, & he still thinks of me as friend. Is that too much? we need an amiable conclusion. I had not talked to him in 1 month & it all came back full force. The last time I talked was when my H & I went for a marriage seminar weekend, & OM begged me not to tell H of PA-I didnt. He told me on that last day in march when we talked if PA was ever revealed & his W found out he would put a gun to his head. He told me he regrets everything we shared. I just want the pain to go away. I told my H last nite I called OM & hung up-H asked what would you have said if he answered? I said just how he is doing-I upset H- I could tell. I went to bed early to be with him, and we made love-hoping to make it up to H. I feel so guilty. Afterwards he is holding me & all I can think of is OM arms around me-I hate myself. I am slowly slowly slowly trying to get thru this-1 day at a time. Thanks for listening to me-I know I am not being easy-pal

PAL: you seem to be much better today. Remember that everything you are feeling is perfectly normal. I m going to give you advice now as someone who knows exactly how you feel. So all BS please cover your eyes now. You don't want to read this.

If you and he really feel like you had a special relationship, and now it is over, then let it go. Keep the good memories you have of him and let him think back of some good memories of you. The more you call him, when he doesn't want to be called, the more you are poisoning your memories ... and his. Think about the college analogy I wrote about. Life goes on. You can't hang out with your best friends from High school or college forever, no matter how much you liked them. You have to move on, and life gets better and more interesting as time goes by. You and he had your times together and it s over. He is your EX-boyfriend. You don't try to contact all your ex-boyfriends, do you? I bet you don't, so just put him in that group and move on.

You are married. He is with someone else. Your relationship with him will NEVER go anywhere, so don't waste any more time on it. You'll be OK.

PAL-
I remember those days very well... OM and I agreed that we could and would just be friends. Just talk on the phone. The A was over, and I needed to concentrate on my marriage. *sigh* But it wasn't over... at least my heart, emotions, etc didn't seem to recognize that it was over. Every time that he and I talked, everything came back... I felt so happy... and found myself biting my tongue so that I wouldn't use the "L" word. After going to the MB conference, I realized... I was not going to be able to give my marriage the shot that it deserved unless OM was totally out of the picture. No contact. I didn't want to leave it on bad terms, either... after all, I didn't hate him! So he and I agreed that we would part as friends. Not the kind of friends that talk... cause I never plan on speaking to him again... but we said friends to mean that we weren't angry at each other. It was just over, and he respected my decision.
Was it difficult after that? YESSSS!!! It was very difficult. I clung to my marriage and my husband, though, and there has been no contact (and will not be any contact)at all. Only you can come to that decision, though... I cannot decide for you - I can just share my experience. I hear myself in your words, PAL... but I am looking back on it now - and you can do the same thing. You can do this.
Do you have someone else that you can call when you want to call OM? your husband? a female friend? I'm sure that your H would love to be the one that you call instead of OM. It helps to have someone else that you can talk to about what you're feeling at times like that. Maybe try posting here BEFORE you call? Whatever it takes...
Another thing that I did... and you might call this silly... but I wrote down the reasons why I couldn't talk to OM anymore. I wrote them and carried them with me, so that I could remind myself. I wrote things like:
He's not my husband
I'm not his wife
I have a husband
He has a wife
I can't help but feel the same old feelings every time that I talk to him
I can't give my M my full attention when I am feeling that way about OM
It kills my husband every time that talk to OM
It hurts OM's W when I talk to him

and more... but you get the idea.
These are just a few things that I felt, thought and did...

CW

WK,

Thank you for your honesty. You have put into words what I could not. Of course this is going waaaaaaayyyyyyy back to your original post.

I liken the whole thing to an addiction or drug - you think you can control your feelings and then all of the sudden you are way over your head. At least that's what happened to me. I never slept with the man but the EA was there and I did kiss him on one occasion. I even lied in my confession here on the board and said that nothing happened. I kept trying to justify my behavior but I now realize I was wrong, selfish, and a coward all the way around.

The withdrawl is true too. As I have told my H though it's a friendship that I miss and I wish I never let the EA go beyond a friendship. I have cut all ties with OM, and my H even sent the NC e-mail. I have to admit though, I still miss the contact and the discussions. In time though that will pass and it will get better.

Please tell your wife everything - all at once. Don't do waht I did. First I admitted to an EA, then I admitted to continuing the EA after I had said that I ended it. Then I admitted to kissing the man on the third meeting when I had originally told my H of only two meetings. The coward that I was/am has hit me like a ton of bricks. I used the excuse of trying to spare my H of the pain, and I still believe I was trying to make it easier, but I should have just been out with it, from the very beginning. So much pain could have been avoided, and maybe, just maybe my H would be able to trust me more than he does.

All of this came about this week so this is very fresh. In fact, he found out about the kissing yesterday, thankfully we started MC counseling too.

With regards to your wife's low lack of labido. I have no advise to give you there. I can certainly understand your point. That's why supposedly the OM was with me or just seeking someone else, because of problems in that department with his wife. In any case, work it out or get out but do not continue to betray her.

I wish you the best of luck, you are in a serious situation and again, your honesty is greatly appreciated.

Carol

OK OK, I only called OM once this morning, & guess what!-he did not pick up!I am making a fool of myself I know. I will stop, at least I am saying I will stop-my 1 girlfriend I trust & knows all my history, is a teacher so gone during day to talk. I need someone to listen-to say things I am thinking & not have that person be shocked-can I call someone-I need talked thru the intensity of wanting to hear OM, I call & listen to his voicemail mess. & he knows its me & just ignores. He needs his # for his business-so he cant change.
I did not fiish my A story on other thread because no one answered me-so I thought I had run out of options for posting until I read WK post as WH. Then I felt like he knew what I was feeling. I am trying to be strong- for me- I want to give my H my passion.
My A story was begun under "new member-peaceandlove"-does anyone want the rest of the story - or has everyone heard it all before??!!pal

PAL,

Please post your story, people might not answer but I am sure that it's helping someone. It probably might help you to get it all out too.