Spoke to my WH tonight (I know, I know...WHY??).
Last time...I promise. I am putting the crack pipe down and going to rehab. I have already e-mailed someone Just J recommended for an e-mail intermediary. Can't do this anymore.

Anyway, we got started on talk of "he was done" before he even started the A, and that he was hurting for years, insert your favorite fog talk here. I told him I could validate his feelings in that moment he was done, but now, we are wiser, and we are equipped to address the issues that we were never able to address before. We know what we need to to have an awesome life together.

He said that he was doing some research on affairs. And he read where the type of affair he had is described as the escape affair...where he wanted out of the marriage so bad, that he committed a catastrophic event so that I would leave him and absolve him of any responsibility of leaving. And out of all the affair types he read up on, this was the hardest one to get past or reconcile. I told him it sounded like he was trying to justify for himself why it is ok not to be putting in the time or energy to attempt a reconciliation. I told him I have read you can recover from any type of affair if both parties are willing to put in the hard work to get past it.

What if he is right. What if it is not about her. It is about him getting out. And this is just like him. Be a real [censored] so he can get off scott free and have me own the process of ending the relationship.

I am ready to give it to him. Here's your D, you weak, weak, weak little man. Here is what you did not have the balls to do in the first place. Now go away. You made your bed, go lie in it.

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 09:23 PM: Message edited by: ChristyV ]</small>

You are too early in this to give up. Your WH is giving you the fog talk. Don't listen to him. They all say the same thing.

Shall I say it again? This is why you shouldn't be talking to him. Each time he repeats these justifications, he believes them more. The more he convinces you of the "truth" of what he is saying, the more he settles into this justification as the one that will fly, therefore it must be "the truth."

Don't let him.

I, too, have read Carol's story -- but it is an individual story, not necessarily a reliable statistical solution. Do you really want to lie and sneak around and create fictions? Isn't that what he was doing?

If you get him back that way -- what will you do NEXT time there is an issue? Will any real issues get resolved if you draw him back that way?

Can't speak for Carol, and it seemed to work for her -- and it is tempting. But given your particular H, it seems like it would not lead to a mature reconciliation. Always assuming it didn't make him violent...

Christy it's what he wants, I look at it this way if you file for D it's the easy way out for him you look like the bad person in his eyes and that the way he'll spin it when the D is final. He'll say something stupid to provoke you into doing it then he'll blame the D on you telling eveyone "I wanted to work it out but she filed for D" what a cheap wimpy way to go out. Takes all the responsabilty off of him and on you. I look at it this way you want the D you file for it grab a set of balls and file for it. I would never say this of course but I think it alot. My W told me she wanted a D and I told her I would contest it, not sure if I did it to be mean or just to prolong her fileing for D I think it's the latter. Besides WS could have done things the right way tried counseling and if that don't work file then go lead your fog induced happy life. That's my .02 worth.

You are right. That is all I can say at this point. I guess I have to sink really, really, really low before I can believe that this is REALLY the way to go. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I don't think he will get violent...those were comment from a weak man, who was grasping at straws because he had already "killed" the man he is inside.

Don't know what else to do, say, be, feel, plan, at this point. This is really the point of surrender for me.

God...if You are listening, please help me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Don't wait till you sink really, really low. If Plan B is going to be effective, it should be done well before that point.

My H says many of the same things. "It's not about her, it's us" "If she were killed by a bus tomorrow it doesn't mean our marriage would work." etc, etc, etc. He said this again during counseling today. We had dinner together w/ our 3 kids on Sunday. I had a good time and asked him if he did too. He said yes. So I told him that although I know there is no guarantee that our marriage will work if he ends it with the OW, that I believe with all my heart that if it weren't for her, he'd be willing to try. He's not the kind of man to turn his back on someone he loved and committed to or on his 3 kids. Accept, of course, while he's in this F**** fog! They do all say the same things, don't they?
And we do the same things too. It's so hard for me to not contact him. I am resolving again to minimize contact... giving him a letter tomorrow. UGH!!

I was replying to your post as you were replying to mine... how funny.

We have a similar story...as far as the longevity of our marriage, how long we have been together, etc. But you have been at this A business longer than me. I can not do this anymore. I am just emotionally tired. I am hoping that a real Plan B will free me from some of it. Either way, I am ready to move on.

I swear I posted more than once "Maybe my H is right" too.....I went on and on letting him maniuplate me in to contact I wasn't really comfortable with, and that left me feeling like a piece of $%#! after. I kept allowing contact to continue for MONTHS while people on here repeatedly asked me why I didn't try plan B. In my mind, I thought maintaining contact would allow me to not be forgotten, and for me to show him that I was trying and that I cared; I foolishly thought that the more we talked, the more likely he'd be to "get it". I could've talked to him forever it seemed, but he never got it.

Don't let your love bank drain like I did mine, try plan B. I also speculate that itt'll do wonders for your self-esteem to have no contact with him (no chances for him to talk to you in such a way that makes you feel like crap).

Here's an idea....try writing a new plan B letter, one that succinctly outlines what plan B will mean and who your email intermediary will be, and how he must only email you at that one account, etc. Taking the time to write the letter, put the words on paper may help you to see if you are ready.

Oh gee whiz, my H still seems to have a 6th sense about me, can tell when I'm thinking about him too much, he just tried calling me (at his usual time too, well after 10pm here). I didn't answer though. (My guess is he's going to start harassing me again as our divorce is going to be final in one week's time.) Edited to add: Oh my he's really trying to pull hard on my heartstrings....his message that he left was him wishing my little stuffed Easter bunny a Happy 10th Birthday....he knows that I still sleep with that rabbit every night. AARUGH. That's the man that I loved. Haven't heard him in a long time. Sometimes I wonder if I should send him a plan B letter of sorts, reiterate under what conditions I'd be willing to be in contact with him. Hmmm....sorry for the aside, back to you Christy!

Take care Christy,

Jen

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Try your best not to break your plan B...it won't work if you do.

You need plan B...to make yourself stronger.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ChristyV:
Anyway, we got started on talk of "he was done" before he even started the A, and that he was hurting for years, insert your favorite fog talk here. I told him I could validate his feelings in that moment he was done, but now, we are wiser, and we are equipped to address the issues that we were never able to address before. We know what we need to to have an awesome life together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly what my FWH said to me...that he was done way before the A even started! They ALL say this!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">where he wanted out of the marriage so bad, that he committed a catastrophic event so that I would leave him and absolve him of any responsibility of leaving. I told him it sounded like he was trying to justify for himself why it is ok not to be putting in the time or energy to attempt a reconciliation. I told him I have read you can recover from any type of affair if both parties are willing to put in the hard work to get past it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if he is right. What if it is not about her. It is about him getting out. And this is just like him. Be a real [censored] so he can get off scott free and have me own the process of ending the relationship.[/quote]

Christy, Are you sure you aren't talking about mine and Dad's lives here...Yup, this is what WH did too. He thought it all out...he decided to have an affair and that he was hoping I would just leave, giving him justification. I alwasy said I would leave him, right? Well, like the saying goes, dont know what you will do until you have walked in their shoes!

He IS right, it is NOT about her...it is about the fantasy he is living...it could be ANY OP...You have to remove her from the picture. This took me awhile to realize. You also have to remove YOU from the picture! Justifying His A and using his actions to get out of the marriage is typical. OK, so what he was miserable BEFORE the A. So why cant he come back? I cant answer that one...sorry...I know not much help. BUT, you have to do everything you can to make YOURSELF happy!

I dont know much about your story...cuz, I am so caught up in my own drama... I assume you are doing drugs, by your first sentence...and you are going into rehab? good for you...not doing the drugs, but going into rehab. That is a step forward for you! I dont have anymore to say, but jsut wanted to let you know that my husband use the same lines. We should know by now, they all do, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jen: Thank you so much. That is exactly what I feel...like if I have one more discussion with him, it will work and he will "come to." I know intellectually that is not going to happen, but my heart, my heart wants to believe that I can penetrate the fog.

Momto3boys:
Ha, you just made me laugh. I am not on drugs. I was trying to be a smart alec (the crack pipe is an anology for my repeated STUPIDITY where I am allowing my WH to break Plan B no contact...it is like me getting a fix...AND EVERYONE has told me NO MORE... YOU ARE IN PLAN B, so BE IN PLAN B ALREADY). Ha! Thanks for making me laigh out loud!

Well, you didn't seem the type to do drugs... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Yea, I am sitting here lmbo right now. I was in the kitchen cleaning my table when I started thinking of you. Then I realized, NO, you couldn't possibly be doing DRUGS with a son in the house <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But by the time I came back to the ocmputer and had to reboot it 5 times cuz it kept locking up on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> , you had already posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Well, I am glad I made you laugh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Christy,

I really think that it's an epidemic in this country that people involved in marriages or even just relationships don't have the necessary resources at hand or knowledge to deal with a long term reltionship.Your WH is just going to repeat the same mistakes over time since he is unwilling to really take a cold hard look at himself.He thinks that switching partners is going to be the answer and we all know differently.

Yes he may be thrilled with the addictive(chemical) feelings of infatuation,who wouldn't be BUT the difference is that most of us know that that will not LAST.All WS's think that they never knew love like this before and blah blah blah.After some time passes they end up with just another set of issues,problems and realities.

It is too bad because there is so much more to be gained from trying to salvage a marriage and that relationship first.Divorce not only wreaks havoc on everyone involved emotionally but fiancially it hits hard too.I don't know how anyone can want to continue giving the legacy of divorce to children.My WH thinks our girls wil be fine and he's read so much about D that he knows it will work out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Well,I am a child of divorce,he is not,so he will never know what that's like unless his parents D.I am so MAD at him for putting this homewrecker over his childrens happiness but he is so self centered and selfish still.The looks on my girls faces when they see us together breaks my heart.They want so much for us to be happy again together.I wanted so much to give them that happiness and not become another statistic.GRRRR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

You will not own the ending of your relationship.Your WH is the ONE that destroyed it with his actions.Don't ever take the blame for the state of it now.He has again,another CHOICE to make,and it could be for the better marriage and family,you are willing to make changes and learn from this A but HE will be the one to put the final nail in the coffin,so to speak.D is just the end result of his selfishness whether or not you file first or he does.It is a failure for sure but one that he brought about if you do D.

You told me yesterday that you were going to get into that Plan B.I am waiting.

O

sister...u r so right. I am back on B. No more. I will go through the withdrawals, post here before I do anything re: WH, and take it from there.

Christy

You know O is right. We have been down this road before together. I am also in a modified Plan B because of house repairs and shift changing. Tomorrow the Plan B starts and I will never come out of it again. I don't care if I have to hire someone to be here to do the dirty work for me. This has been the worse two weeks of my life all over again.

Seeing WH and dealing with him is like the A all over again. Someone might as well spit in my face. That is what it is honestly like seeing him again. Take my word for it. I was totally dark for almost a month and then the homeowners insurance thing made it impossible for us to not see each other. Now that is over and today is his last day coming here. I won't come out of Plan B again. If we come out it will be because he has called and said he wants to talk to me about our R or M and he isn't with the HW anymore. Life is too short for all this pain. I am looking ahead to brighter days. I have been at the bottom of the pit for two weeks. I can't take it anymore.

Get mad, get empowered. Hand it over to GOD and don't take it back until you know you are ready. I thought I was ready and I took it back and it got me no where real fast. Good Luck! Listen to O! She's been there.

NY

Christy now stick to your word about Plan B, if you need to vent come here and do it we're here to support you and you can do the same for me since I started yesterday. I'm pulling for you so much to do what needs to be done. I know we have weak days and you probobly ask yourself the same questions I do. i.e. If there's no contact how will the WS know that I care for them. I hope that they know this by the Plan B letter, which clearly states that there are requirements to get back together and if the WS is willing to meet these requirments that we will be here for the WS. I had a hard time this morning but I'm ok now it's just another day. Good luck on your new Plan B stay strong.

Tinman

You go buddy! I am right behind you once again. I will never come out of it again. It has been painful. Please learn from my mistakes. If you can get past the first three weeks of withdrawals of WS not being around you have got it made. Keep yourself so busy, and I mean busy. Don't leave yourself a minute to be alone with the phone, or your thoughts. The phone is tempting all the time. Good Luck! I am here for you!

NY

Oh, I can see my WH here. He told me it is not about OW, our R died before it. If it is not this one, there would be another one.

He still wants a D. I don't know what to do. Would Plan B give him an excuse for D?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He told me it is not about OW, our R died before it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lostnhurt you have to know that is fog talk to rationalize what the WS has done, I'm not in love with you never have been, my favorite from my W was "Right after we got M I said to myself what did I just do" man did that hurt. The WS tries to paint a picture of you being the bad person so they don't feel so bad about what they have done it's sad and pathetic I know what a copout. I have come to terms with this now that I'm in Plan B I don't have to hear this BS anymore and the more I think about it that just means that my W and the OM will have to talk about real life and she can't go to the OM and say do you know what my H did and then he consoles her (puke symbol here). So let's see how real life is like with me out of the picture for now. Hugs to you lostnhurt.