<small>[ April 16, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

I'll jump in with the MB-approved response.

Review the sections on Negotiating and the POJA.

Then both of you sit down and have a RATIONAL discussion about it....

mt3b,
Please don't LB. I know it's hard, but please focus on that.

Good Luck,
Ethan

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

I agree with the furniture man. The gun isn't the deeper issue here - the way you're handling the disagreement is. Fix that and the gun will most likely become a non-issue.

IMO - this has nothing to do with the gun and everything to do with who makes decisions (notice I did not say compromises)

If the thing is going to be out of the house let him take it where ever he wants.

I do not think you are afraid of him using it, never got that from any of the posting here from either of you.

this is one of those - pick your fights.

with 3 kids I would not want it in the house for ANY reason. Locked or not.

Can he actually bring it to the clinic? I do not think I would want to be in Docs office with a gun sitting around for "safety"...

The other posters are right.
You don't need advice fast about firearms.
You need advice fast about love busters.

Let's see, I can find, hidden in this dialogue:
Independent Behavior (tons!)
Angry Outburst
Selfish Demand
and maybe Disrespectful Judgement

Now, I'd have been concerned, too, if I found that WH had a LOADED gun lying in the car. What if a kid got to it?! This *is* a serious thing!

Why didn't you just talk to WH calmly, using "I" statements?

"WH, I get very nervous/anxious/concerned/frightened knowing there is a loaded gun in the car. I'm afraid there could be a horrible tragedy as a result of having a loaded gun around. What can WE do to ensure any potential tragedies are averted?"

Then just wait and listen. Let him solve the problem. He's a man, that's what they do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong> Ethan....we aren't at POJA yet! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At the risk of being rude....get there. It is the most basic of concepts. You guys have to be able to make decisions that are win-win for both of you. I'm certain you've seen that around here. It's either win-win or no deal.

I'll give an example from my personal life. (non-M related) I managed in wireless retail for a major wireless carrier for about 5 years. I don't know if you have ever been in a cell phone store, but they are often chock full of irate folks. My #1 problem solving method was this:
I would explain to the customer that there were things that they wanted me to do, and things that my company would allow me to do. Ideally, those two things would match perfectly. Most times, however they didn't. I would write what they wanted on one side of a piece of paper, what my company could "do" on the other. I would draw a big circle between the two, and show them that this is where our solution would come from. I explained that I may not be able to do exactly what they ask, and they might not be able to get exactly what they wanted. This satisfied the majority of the customers that I used this with, and both of us came away win-win. See how this relates?

Good Luck,
Ethan

You are going to have to get a grip on your controlling behavior or you are not going to recover your M. I am speaking from experience...you are not his parent! You are his wife, partner, teammate.

Why do you do this? I couldn't break these habits on my own, I needed IC.

This isn't about the gun...it's about the way you two treat each other.

As for the gun...no I wouldn't want a loaded gun anywhere near my children or others!!!!

However...you could have handled this much differently...why does everything have to be a battle...why can't you have a discussion???

I'm sure that if you would have handled this differently...by saying...honey...I found the gun in your car...you must have forgotten it...what I was worried one of the kids would get it so I took it to neighbors until you got home and we could discuss.

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Those are all valid concerns...however...you still deserve the big 2x4 for how you handled the situation. Why didn't you explain it calmly to him like you just did to us?

I think that sometimes mothers HAVE to control certain situations. 3 young boys and a loaded gun?! Not very safe. Even if it's kept in the car it isn't locked up when the boys are in the car. A moment of inattention could be tragic.

Another thing she may be thinking is "depressed husband, loaded gun" not a good combination. I know that we can't CONTROL our spouse' life but sometimes we may have to LB to possibly save it.

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

OK, I am repeating something Harley said, which is that the POJA does not apply to safety issues or issues in which one person is being hurt (ie. my H used POJA to keep me from calling OWH).

There seems to be an increased type of justice called vigilante justice when there is an A. My H broke my arm when I threatened to call OWH. My sister sent me an article about someone from her town shooting her H an dOW. And sweet123 sure wasn't sweet on Valentine's Day.

I think there is some reason for your concern. But I am coming from the perspective of someone who was abused.

Mom, you're still making this issue about the gun - and while I DESPISE firearms (won't have one here no matter what the circumstance) and completely agree with your concern for your children - the bigger issue is just as important. Because I think your children will be pretty traumatized if you divorce.

Get a grip on this situation. I like someones solution above. As long as the gun is out of the house - drop it. He's free to do with it as he pleases. You cannot FORCE him to be open and honest with you. You CAN practice being honest and NON CONFRONTATIONAL with him. Try setting an example.

Mom, why are you treating him like a 3 year old? No wonder he is angry. He didn't try to bring a loaded gun in the house and endanger your children. I can't imagine why you treated him so disrespectfully over a silly gun.

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Yes, a silly gun. Now where did your H allow your children to play with a loaded gun? I thought the gun was at your neighbors? I don't think that ever happened, nor do I think you were right to treat him this way. He is a grown man who has a right to have a gun and be treated with respect. Mom, your reaction was way overboard.

Ah yes, the "right to bear arms"... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Anyway...
This isn't about the gun so much as it's about taking responsibility for protecting loved ones from the potentially devastating consequences of a loaded firearm! It is totally, 100% irresponsible to have a loaded weapon in a car (or in a home) where it is easily accessible to kids.

The gun is also a frustrating metaphor for how irresponsible M23B's WH has been about most things these days.

To be honest, the only times I really LB'd during dday/recovery period was when it came to my kids. Is is almost impossible to be rational about MB principles when one's kids are involved or are potentially in danger. IMHO, if my kids were threatened then to h*ll with the MB principles. At that moment their safety is the number one priority. There are times when compromise is not possible or safe. There are times when following your instincts is the only solution. This would be one of those times.

That being said, M23B's the other's were correct in suggesting that you examine how you interact in these situations. It's tough, I know, and obviously we don't have all the details (we weren't there) but, when you write in your posts there are time when you come across as very self-righteous with a "WH is an idiot and he owes me" attitude. Were you aware of this? Something to think about!!??

mt3b

I remember the thread where this issue came up. I remember your post about him having the gun in the car and telling you to watch out.

I also remember you getting heaps of advice along the lines of getting rid of it into a safe place. In fact I am not sure whether there was even opportunity for you to have discussion with your H at time, I don't remember the thread in that detail.

I am of a different country with fairly strict gun laws and controls and so I realise that I am coming from a completely different cultural background. Please all bear this in mind.

I think you acted very responsibly in removing this loaded gun and arranging its storage in a safe place. I read often of tragedies in your country involving children finding guns and accidental deaths. I do not feel a storing a loaded gun even temporarily in a car is a risk I would be willing to live with even if my H wanted it stored this way.

In your posts you seem always to have your H's best interests in mind. Sure you and he have probably got a lot to learn about POJA and we can all learn how to tackle things better without LBs. It is early dayss mt3b.

Hang in there.
C&S

mgm and C&S...thank you for your posts! Maybe in my threads I DO come across as that way, but you know what...I am trying to remember what was said and also trying to condense the conversation. Maybe I didn't put everything single word in my thread that was said. This was never a "heated" arguement beteween me and my H. he was not upset becasue of the way I treated him. Your right, you guys are NOT here and you DONT know what is going on.

I am appalled at the way that you guys have handled this topic. I take loaded guns seriously and when it comes to the safetly of my children AND my H, i will take all measures possible to protect them. And if that means "treating him like a 3 y/o" as you put it, then so be it...I never treated him as a child in this case...he knows I do not like the gun, he knows that I never wanted the gun to begin with...

Let's talk about safety here...is is better to just let him keep the loaded gun in his car...oh, just because we dont want to LB him and take the chance of him using it or one of my kids finding it..."ok, honey, you go ahead and keep that gun, I dont mind at all if the kids want to play with it"...and YES he does let the kids play in the cars. They love his cars. I even said to him "your going to let them play in there with the gun in the glove box"

I'll tell you what..I'll take a picture of them next time they are in the car...or better yet...how about WITH the gun in their hands...

Picking out a casket for your parent is bad enough...but picking out a casket for your son is not a pretty site...believe me..I watched my best friend bury her 3 y/o son 2 years ago. You never get over that...

And another thing...Why on earth would I LIE about something when my husband gets on here and reads my threads! That took a lot of nerve to say! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

toomanylies, pretty much hit the nail.....thank you!

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>