TWICE today I have read stories of affairs started at church. One from a pregnant woman giving oral sex to a man who is active in the church and President of a Christian business, the other the MINISTER who abused his position by having an affair with a VERY young member of his congregation! When my H and I were discussing reconciliation he mentioned that he was thinking of going back to church, I didn't really respond and maybe it's a good thing I didn't! Church seems to be this decades pick up joint! COME ON PEOPLE! Anyone remember THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

The divorce and affair rates among self identified Christians is about that of the general population.

About 80% of the participants in this forum are Christians.

It ain't the churches, it's us.

What's going on in our society is the question. We live in a society where presidents get blown by interns in the oval office, TV and movies bombard us with it daily and frankly we live in a society where phrases like 'starter marriage' exist and Las Vegas runs an ad campaign entitled "what happens here stays here" and the Courts have adopted 'no fault' divorce in many states so adultery doesn't matter.

So pretty much the blame is spread far and wide for this one but at the end of the day the responsibility rests inside each and every one of us.

....the question is - what can we do about it?

Set an example and try to spread the word.

Ya know what really sucks about other countries saying America is shallow and has lost touch with the values that made it great? They're right, we have.

What can we do about it? I'm not sure frankly but it is a great item to ponder.

I do think we're going to see the pendulum swing the other way - the 'do whatever feels good' movement is starting to be outnumbered by the "Do what's right" folks.

The simple truth is, there are no blanket statements about how any particular group behaves. There are christians in prison and there are atheists who would never hurt a fly. I am sad to say that in my business, I have gotten royally screwed by christians. They have bounced checks on me and robbed me of revenue and merchandise. Just ecause someone says they are christian, doens't mean they are moral. In fact, usually it's the opposite, and they are trying to be part of somethinhg that will forgive them for their behavior.

My dad is a born again christian, but he was the nicest guy in the world BEFORE any of that, so religion didn't make hime kind and moral. He already was.

In reference to the ten commandments, there are actually over 600 in the Old Testament and most of them refer to how Jews should eat and dress. I guess the sad thing is, people just label themselves in a certain way, but they have no knowledge of themselves or the history of the religions they hold so close to their hearts and minds.

For the record, I always found it strange that a woman would want to lock herself up on a monestary, or that a man would want to deny himself a wife and live in a dorm with a bunch of men for ever. Sex and love are normal urges, and why anyone wuld want to suppress that is beyond me. In the end, lots of alter boys have suffered terribly at the hands of frustrated, sexually confused priests.

my Dad had an affair with a nun in the church we went to, this is when i was about 7. She became my step mom in less than a year. And my Dad made sure that she was #1 in his life, the 4 kids were no longer a true priority to him. i lived with my mom until right before HS, then I was forced to move in with my Dad because my Mom was too unstable and my two sisters both wanted to move. My brother, the oldest, had moved a year or so before because he was on drugs and had dropped out of HS and my mom could not control him. my brother got straightened out by my dad, he is very big on discipline, unfortunately, emotionaly, it was not a good move for any of us.

now, my mom, i'm told, was in love with a priest for a while, not really sure about that. much later she became a minister in Unity (a non-denominational church) and she was very much in love with another older minister who was very much an out of the closet gay man. uh, mom, that means he likes guys not women....

and why do i wonder why i am so screwed up???

Wow, what a huge shock, people are SINNERS!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I never knew! Well, maybe then church is the best place for all these evil ole Christians?

Ever hear that comment, "Heaven would be a great place if it weren't filled with all christians."

Maybe a new one should be, "Church would be a great place if it wasn't filled with all those closet homosexuals, adulturers and sinners!"

For the record, some of my best friends are gay and considered "sinners." Wasn't it Billy Joel who sang, "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>Well, maybe then church is the best place for all these evil ole Christians? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mel, at least we'll know where the hypocrits are........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My pastor has a saying that I just love!

"Going to church doesn't make you any more of a Christian than sleeping in your garage, makes you a Chevy"

Jesus said "Follow me" NOT "Follow my followers"

Just a couple of thoughts for the day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Too Many,

I'm a former pastor and my wife and I were heavily involved in church. We have both had affairs.

Like the other's have stated the church is filled with sinners. Are we to be upset when the church going alcoholic slips back into alcoholism? We shouldn't blame the "church" for our choice to not follow the teachings of Jesus The church is the right place for sinners. Jesus proclaimed that he'd come to seek and save those that are "lost".

I am by no means condoning affairs or any other behavior that the scripture teaches is un-Christ like. As long as there are people going to church you will see the effects of sin in the church.

Christians go wrong when we fail to follow the path of Christ in simple obedience. The "ONLY" thing that separates the Christian from the rest of society is the fact that they've admitted the need for Christ. This need is not a one time acknowledgement, but a daily awareness that unless we turn to him we will make poor decisions.

Is the Church a place for your Husband? I can't think of a better place to be! It's not the teaching that's faulty, it's the people who attend that are faulty. I honestly don't know how people who are Christians cope with all of the stress, emotions and pain that affairs cause. I'm aware daily that my affair was a direct result of my leaving the path of Christ to carve out my own way. My way almost destroyed everything I hold dear. I'm so thankful for the forgiveness that God has given and the ability to change.

Hope this helps.

Titleist.

My husband was a very prominent member of our church and he had an affair with my best friend another very prominent member of our church. We actually used to hold marriage prayer groups together. I have also heard of numberous other stories of people who have had affairs with people in their church.

Church is a very close knit group of people who are there to support each other. We all have the same moral beliefs and want to follow the word of God. We spent so much time with these other church members that they began to fulfill some of our EN. That is how my husband's affair started.

I don't believe the church is to blame it is simply individuals who fall away from God. However I will say it is hard to go back to church when this has happened to you.

For all of you who have experienced an affair within your church - just keep the faith. God can work miracles. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What are Christians? By definition, Christians are followers of Christ and not necessarily people who go to a building on Sundays, sing a few songs, participate in the breaking of crackers and drink grape juice. The Church nowadays is a reflexion of the world we live in. Sad to say, but there are groups who take more seriously their religion and have higher expectations of themselves as to how to behave. When my WW and I went to see a counselor who is the minister of a church, the first words out of his mouth was that my spouses behavior was my fault. He did not know either of us because he was recommended by a friend. Then, the second counselor, who is a psychologist on the staff of a church to provide counseling, all that she would say was to forgive without working through the issues that my WW had. So much for church.

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Why-me? ]</small>

I think some of us may have missed the point toomanylies is making.

First, I need to state that I eschew organized religion. My relationship with my God is private and I don't need anybody to help me implement it. I cast a sly eye towards anybody who proclaims to speak for my God.

Nonetheless, I agree with the statements about Churches not being incubators for wrongdoing and just because anybody attends Church doesn't make them immune from anything. Similarly, NOT attending Church doesn't automatically doom anybody to any lesser moral status. I'll stake my morals against ANYBODY reading this.

I believe what toomanylies is addressing is the propensity for some people to hide behind their Church and rationalize that what they're doing is somehow OK or defendable due to some twisted logic that resides beneath their Church umbrella of "protection."

THIS, my friends, is hypocrisy and THIS is repulsive to many.

Just go read the thread by Marie Elena - assuming it's not a hoax.

WAT

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Titleist:
<strong>
Are we to be upset when the church going alcoholic slips back into alcoholism? We shouldn't blame the "church" for our choice to not follow the teachings of Jesus The church is the right place for sinners. Jesus proclaimed that he'd come to seek and save those that are "lost".

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very well said, Titleist. Excellent points. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H's EA/PA was with a pastor's wife whose divorce was not even final when she was sending text messages to him inviting him to "come over and play"..the day before my birthday...and she babysat our son on my birthday (before I knew about the A.)

Sending letters to him convincing him he would be a better man and father by leaving his family and choosing her...that she had a gift to step outside and see the big picture etc etc etc

She invited him over to her house to sleep over when I took ONE day off work to spend the night at my mother's house to help her post cancer surgery recovery. They had sex while my 3 year old son shared a bed with her autistic son and her 13 year old daughter (a student at my husband's school) slept in the next room.

How's that for morals.

My husband and I are in recovery but as you can see bitterness remains for the OW.