I have been posting since Jan, some might recognize me, I've been in Plan A/B forum for a while. We went to 3rd MC appt last night where H said he would listen to what MC had to say. I found an MC that heals marriages, but MC can't counsel someone who doesn't want to be and whom won't shut up long enough to listen. This is how it went. Please, please, give me your input.

Things went awful!! I married a pathalogical liar and I am so embarrased of myself.

He doesn't want to work on the marriage, says he went (to MC appt) because he promised my mother back when this all started. He says I emotionally abused him all of these years, sucked the happiness right out of him, he was never in love with me, was afraid I would hurt myself if he didn't marry me, that all of his marriage proposals and professions of love while in Desert Storm was his way of having a connection with the homefront, he basically used me all these years because he was afraid of being alone and the list goes on and on.

He thinks he's being a good Dad and a big man by agreeing to still live with me and the kids.

He hates the term of having his cake and eating it too, says that has nothing to do with it.

All he does is go back to the past and pick out every misspoken word or unappropriate action I ever did. When I try to bring up good points he'll agree for about 2 seconds but then think up of another bad thing that might have immediately followed the good.

He wants to cohabitate, no affection allowed!!

He admits to having gotten "emotionally" involved with two girls, but that's over. One girl wanted to get physically close to him and she has a history of hurting herself and my husband was afraid to say no to her because he was afraid she would hurt herself. My H says that's the point that he realized that he married me because he was afraid I would hurt myself (to explain, about 14 years ago, my H put his fist through the wall because I woke him up and I grabbed a handgun and ran out of the house, he chased me down. I don't have a suicidal past, that was a single instance)

Does that make any sense? He didn't realize it at the time, it took him 14 years and another girl that was known to hurt herself to come to that conclusion?

Everything is about HIS happiness. When I try to bring up the kids happiness he reverts it back to himself.

I asked him where am I to go for my needs, affection, sex, ya know, the stuff I should go to him for. His reply is to do what I choose to do, just don't go to him for it. (I don't want to come across as vain, and I apologize if I do but I have always been told I am very pretty, I am 5'3" tall and weigh 98lbs, long blonde hair)

H says we will live together for now and who knows "WE" might just happen. I told him that the position he has put me in is I have to sit in Limbo waiting for him. It'll be HIS decision to either get a divorce, "fall in love" with me, or just live together forever and I have no decision. How can we "fall in love" if he won't even kiss me? He won't even try. Is it possible? I keep trying to meet his EN's (he won't let me know what they are)

Help me out here . I hope you reply soon. I am at the bottom of my barrel here.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How long have you been in Plan A ?

Remember Plan A has a deadline....have you reached or exceeded your deadline ?

After awhile of LB <---this is what I hear your H staying....I think he wants to see if you're willing to work at this as well. Actions will speak far more than words.

I think it's a good sign he's still home...and he's being clear about his feelings...no matter how confused he seems to be right now....my FWH was at that point as well.

Insisted that he didn't love me anymore, that we hadn't been US for a very long time...that we heard the engine knocking..but nobody bothered to get the car fixed..so the engine blew up.

Thought for sure he'd be happier without me.

He lived out of the house for about 6 weeks... splurged on himself...but was very lonely. He's home now..and we are in recovery...but I know what those words felt like.

I don't think your fight is lost...but you have to commit to your fight. It sounds like you're only willing to commit to your fight if you KNOW what the outcome will be.

We don't KNOW the outcome...NOTHING comes with a guarantee.... it's a crap shoot...but if you are vigilant in Plan A...you will start seeing things about you that were never seen before.

Give this a try...let me know what you think.

m,

Don't get too wrapped up in what he's saying right now. The fog is thick. He will revise history and deny reality. Don't try to convince him to try to make things work. Don't talk about the kids, because he can't hear it right now. Don't argue with his foggy statements. You can't "sell" him the marriage by reasoning. He won't be reasoned with. Just continue a solid Plan A until you can't take it anymore, than go to Plan B.

He won't tell you what his needs are, but you can take an educated guess. And you won't do any damage by being the best person you possibly can.

Just try not to chase him right now. Have you seen the DivorceBusting 180 list yet? You can do that and Plan A at the same time. At first glace they appear mutually exclusive, but I don't feel that they are. You have to strike the right balance of being the sort of person he wants without looking needy.

My best wishes to you. Take good care of yourself.

ditto Dobie

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He is following the WS script to a T.

This is relatively good news for you.

This means that EVERYTHING you can learn from this site about infidelity and it's aftermath applies DIRECTLY to your situation.

What's REALLY good for you is that deep down, he sees the value of staying with your kids. And this means you get to use Plan A to it's fullest extent.

But, you have to be patient.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H says we will live together for now and who knows "WE" might just happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're a lot better off than you may realize. Consider his statement a golden Plan A opportunity. Many BSs here would cut off an arm for this chance.

I recommend you continue Plan A. Don't try to pull him back - lure him back. When he re-writes your history, smugly smile to yourself with the knowledge that he HAS to do this and that it's NORMAL and EXPECTED for WSs to do this. It indicates that he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to find excuses for his choices. It means your Plan A is working. When he does this, IT'S GOOD! Get it?

As for the prospect of Plan B - you cannot do this under the same roof. Don't even think of it.

Continue your counseling - even if you have to go yourself. Show this post to your counselor, get his/her reaction, and tell us what it is.

Everything you all is saying is so great. They are the things I know deep down but I don't trust my own instincts anymore and that's why I keep leaning on you guys for support.

I know I am in a better position than most BS out here. I am scared.

I have been in plan A sinc February?? The only time I go off course is when the well fare of the kids gets brought up. When my H sits there and says over and over "I want what's best for the kids, I want what's best for the kids, I want to beable to come go and do as I please, etc..." It makes me so angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I get stronger with Plan A everyday but I am having a hard time not "chasing" him so to speak. I don't know how to not be a wife to the fullest extent. I find myself going to kiss him without even thinking about it, then he turns his head and says stop and that's when I remember that he won't let me be his wife. That's a hard one. We've been overly affectionate for 15 years, even after 2 kids, and he put a dead stop on it in 30 seconds on 1/06/04.

I will show my counselor your posts, I look forward to more. Thanks again

Everything you all is saying is so great. They are the things I know deep down but I don't trust my own instincts anymore and that's why I keep leaning on you guys for support.

I know I am in a better position than most BS out here. I am scared.

I have been in plan A sinc February?? The only time I go off course is when the well fare of the kids gets brought up. When my H sits there and says over and over "I want what's best for the kids, I want what's best for the kids, I want to beable to come go and do as I please, etc..." It makes me so angry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I get stronger with Plan A everyday but I am having a hard time not "chasing" him so to speak. I don't know how to not be a wife to the fullest extent. I find myself going to kiss him without even thinking about it, then he turns his head and says stop and that's when I remember that he won't let me be his wife. That's a hard one. We've been overly affectionate for 15 years, even after 2 kids, and he put a dead stop on it in 30 seconds on 1/06/04.

I will show my counselor your posts, I look forward to more. Thanks again

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>When my H sits there and says over and over "I want what's best for the kids, I want what's best for the kids, I want to beable to come go and do as I please, etc..."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In affairs, culprits abound except in the mirror.

In addition to re-written history, affairs bring out unbelievable hypocrisy.

This is because WSs paint over all the mirrors in their lives. They temporarily lose the self-checking ability to stop themselves before they say such stupid, illogical stuff.

The physiological reason for this is research verified loss of the "oops response" when people are on dopamine highs - caused either by drugs, alcohol, or any other powerful, pleasurable brain response to stimuli. Feelings of love is just another dopamine releasing stimuli. They lose the ability to think, "oops, bad idea, I better not do this."

WAT

I have another question, need advise here also.

My H is going away for the Military for 2 weeks. He was saying that he's looking forward to it to get away from everything and beable to really think about everything. I know my H will try to focus on whether he misses "me" or not, which I am positive he won't miss "me". Plus he will be in phone contact with his other women "friends". I have a strong feeling that when H comes home he will probably say something like this: "When I went away I tried to miss you but I didn't at all, so that is the final say that I don't have feelings for you."

We went to Florida on family vacation in December (before Dday). That's the last time H and I had sex (we rented a 4 bedroom house, I don't want you to think we did it in the same room as the kids) He initiated it. I asked him yesterday what that was all about. H says he did that to see if he had any feelings for me while we were doing it and he said he had no feelings for me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How should I handle this his going away? Here are my ideas, I look forward to some input.

Do I:

1: Explain to him that when he calls I will have one of the girls answer the phone because I do not wish to speak to him while he's gone.

2: Answer the phone and talk like nothing is wrong.

3: Answer the phone and talk and when I feel like it should I call him?

Any other suggestions?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by m01069:
<strong>I know my H will try to focus on whether he misses "me" or not, which I am positive he won't miss "me".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Baloney. You don't know this. He will likely be focused on everything OTHER than you. But you are right in that he won't miss you - UNLESS you do a bang up Plan A before he leaves.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a strong feeling that when H comes home he will probably say something like this: "When I went away I tried to miss you but I didn't at all, so that is the final say that I don't have feelings for you."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He may very likely say that. It's VERY predictable. Has he already said, "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you."???

Very, very, very typical WS readings from the script inserted in their brains by the alien abductors.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1: Explain to him that when he calls I will have one of the girls answer the phone because I do not wish to speak to him while he's gone.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, NO, NO!! Absolutely wrong. You should be in Plan A. You should take every opportunity to talk to him - as long as you can do it without love busting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2: Answer the phone and talk like nothing is wrong.

3: Answer the phone and talk and when I feel like it should I call him?

Any other suggestions?????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Closer.

You need to be calm and "normal" when you communicate with him. NO questions or accusations about OWs. Be confident and even a little aloof. Do a 180 from what you may have been doing. Make him wonder what you're up to.

Finally, write him a Plan A letter. This is a love letter like a Plan B letter, but without the "isolation" punch line. See the sample Plan B letter in "Surviving An Affair" and start with that - just leave out the part about ending interaction with him.

WAT

I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you."???

First words out of his mouth on 1/06.

He says and does all the WS talk on this site and even more, as I have posted.

How can he hurt me so badly?

M,

Do you remeber me? We had the same D-day and a Florida vacation to FL. My part was worse, we went with OW's family. Isn't thta rediculus?

Yes, you are in a much better position than I am in now. I will cut my arm off to have my Wh to stay home. But he kept going out, staying ouver night, asking for seperation etc. I've been in Plan A since D day. The reason I am hanging here is that i still have a week to go to a cruise with my sis, then go to MB weekend. If things don't change after MBW, i will go straight to Plan B.

So everything your WH said, I heard them over and over. You can read my thread. He even used the things happened before our marrige(we were just dating) to justify his A. What are they thinking? So please be patient, you are in a good position. Wat give you the best advice.

Who do you consel with? Do you talk to SH? But let them know what exactly happened.

lostnhurt

I remember you well, sorry to hear things arn't any better for you.

I found an MC in my area. He's christian and very, very family oriented. He is more than willing to help us heal our marriage but my H doesn't want that.

We are going to go to him for parenting therapy. How to co-parent. I guess that's a step in the right direction and I should be thankful.

H still say I love you on the phone. I'm waiting for that to end too. It seems like he's "weaning" me off of him, taking things away slowly now.

Here's a little story, I took my truck in for service and was in the waiting room. I ovheard a conv. between an 86 year old man and a younger guy. The 86 yr old was saying how sickly his wife is and he has to do everything for her. He ended it saying "But I don't mind, when you get married you marry for life, till death do us part". I just bowed my head down and held back the tears. Call me old fashioned, but that's my thinking also.

lostnhurt

I remember you well, sorry to hear things arn't any better for you.

I found an MC in my area. He's christian and very, very family oriented. He is more than willing to help us heal our marriage but my H doesn't want that.

We are going to go to him for parenting therapy. How to co-parent. I guess that's a step in the right direction and I should be thankful.

H still say I love you on the phone. I'm waiting for that to end too. It seems like he's "weaning" me off of him, taking things away slowly now.

Here's a little story, I took my truck in for service and was in the waiting room. I ovheard a conv. between an 86 year old man and a younger guy. The 86 yr old was saying how sickly his wife is and he has to do everything for her. He ended it saying "But I don't mind, when you get married you marry for life, till death do us part". I just bowed my head down and held back the tears. Call me old fashioned, but that's my thinking also.

(I don't know what's up with the double posts, I keep getting overflow errors, never happened before, sorry))

M, I love the story. We don't know what happen to this generation now.

Well, H is on his way for his 2 weeks for the Army.

We had an o.k. night, watched T.V., fell asleep, woke up and went to bed.

He gave me an extra big hug before leaving and said I love you.

I know he loves me, he's just not in love and he wants to explore his avenues (see if the grass is greener on the other side). That hurts

He likes the attention women give to him. He says the woman he fell in love with filled a void in him he didn't even know he had and it's something I can't fill because I am not her. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I can sort of understand that. When I look back at past relationships b4 my H, I had some guys that treated me like a queen, and filled my EN's, but it just wasn't there to fall in love with them, something was missing in my heart.

But with my H, whom I can't really say filled my EN's at the beginning nor all these years, there was just something there, can't explain it. Even after all he's put me through, I still love him and am still in love.

It's when I honestly look at the above statements that I have doubt in my mind. The doubt lies in no matter what I do, how hard I work that my H will never fall in love with me, I will never fill that space in his heart. I am so scared.

M, don't be scared. I will put our eyes in GOD, not to our WH's action.

I am reading Psalm 27 and get a lot of comfort. Please try it.