ok---i have read as much as i could of your threads and i have seen a patern. it really is all about the sex with you huh? thats fine, it is obviously your #1 need.

i do have a question for you---i havent seen it anywhere i read so im gonna ask--if youve allready answered this somewhere please accept my opologies...but i want an answer here.

what have you done in the years of your marriage to support your wife's in-love with you feelings. i want specific examples---not im a romantic.

im asking because our libidos are directly linked to our emotions. if we are fufilled---we are usually sexual. if not----forget it. so---since your wife is stone cold i have my concerns as to why??

and by the way if my husband came home and said what you said to her--he'd be in an ambulance by now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

you both seem to be stuck---lets figure this out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what have you done in the years of your marriage to support your wife's in-love with you feelings. i want specific examples---not im a romantic. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okeedokey. Here's what I think my W problem is. And don't worry, I know there are lots of gals out there with the same deal as hers, but I am trying to understand her myself.

She is an ONLY child.
She wan army brat and lived in Germany until she was 9.
She was moved around quite a bit because her dad was in the Amry (Chicago, Ft. Bragg, the usual places)
She only has two close friends.
She is very close to her dad (who revealed he is gay last year)
She is NOT close to her mom.
She is not very social.
She is quiet as a mouse. Honestly, she would not mind if she made 4-5 utternaces a day (and that includes a sneeze or cough!) She is not a dumb blond or anything, she just isn't like me who can talk your head off.
Her mom told me she never really had any boyfriends before me. She didn't go to prom.
She and I met while working at a bookstore. She was 18.
I broke up with her after awhile to go away to college. I may have said something to her back then, like the jerk I sometimes was, about her being too stupid for me. I don't remember.

I went out with some other girls and was always very nice and had great friendships and sex and was lots of fun. I have lots of great memories. I had one girlfriend who was BONKERS and it made me think of how nice and quiet W was.

Through some freaky act of serendipity, ur paths crossed again. Weird story that is too hard to believe so I won't get into it. We started dating again. I think I felt guilty about breaking up with her way-back-when and I went out of my way to make it up to her. She was not dating anyone else, and we never spoke about who we dated.

Months later she called my crying. She said she went to the Dr who told her that she had Genital Warts. She didn't want me to think she cheated on me, so she told me. I dind't believe it. I have been told some really stupid things by Drs in the past. Once time I went to San Francisco and got an allergic reaction froma tic bite and a DR wanted me to think I contracted A.I.D.S! Seriusly! When I was a kid, several Drs told me I was going to be a midget or never taller than 4.5 because I was so short. Anyway, I am now a normal hei9ght and weight. So I told her to get another opinion and it seemed she just had some yeast infection (not that that's not gross!)

Our sex life was OK for awhile following that, even though she was the first girl I was ever with who had sex with anyone else but me. (Hey, I was young!)

I have given her a life that she might not have had if she never met me. I have flown her to different parts of the country, take her to the mountains, walk through mountain trails, lots of fun stuff. I DO NOT BELIEVE IN CANDY AND FLOWERS. I never have. I never bought them for anyone, anytime. It seems to me ANYONE can do that. NOthing original there. But I doubt if that can be the reason why I can't get her interested in having sex.

Even though I am a work-a-holic, she knows she can call me anytime or walk into my office anytime, and there is no one or nothing mor eimportant than her. It's true that my mind wanders sometimes because I work on a lot of different things, and I do forget things sometimes if I don't write them down or pay special attention, but I don't ignore her.

It is true that when I go for long periods of time wihtout having sex,it will NOT last very long. I think mkost guys are like that. So sex really does sex when we do have sex. And she takes longer to have orgasms when we go for long periods of time without having sex; so this is not benefiting anyone.

In refernece to my A just being about sex, I did mention that the OW gave me things I did not think I needed before. W never shows much interest in my life or work. It's nt that she doens't like what I do, but OW was fascinated by me. You should have seen the way she looked t me, asked questions, etc. Sure, it's because the relationship was NEW and she wanted to know all, but I am not going to tell you I did not appreciate it and it asn't nice to get all that attention.

I don't know if I can list every "romantic" thing I have ever done for my W, but read all this and let me know your ideas. I appreciate your taking the time to help me tackle this issue.

I was stone cold throughout the first part of our marriage. My husband 'didn't believe in flowers and candy' either. So I didn't believe he really needed sex all that badly either.

Dude - it isn't all about you. You're wife certainly won't thaw with the cr@ppy attitude you're toting. My husband and I have different needs. You and your wife have different needs. Whether or not YOU are a flowers and candy kind of guy is totally beside the point - what's is SHE. If she's a flowers and candy kind of gal - then friggin get her the flowers and candy!!

I am an only child - and I don't see what the )*$#)(* that has to do with anything?? All I see is a post that says "THIS IS WHAT'S WRONG WITH MY WIFE - I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT". My husband said something right along those lines too. We almost got divorced because of that very attitude.

Somewhere along the lines he figured out that he contributed to our marriage problems by only seeing things HIS WAY. I had a problem in that area as well. I would get my H candy, flowers and cards - and he wouldn't appreciate them in the least. That was totally offensive to me, and then to add insult to injury I never got ANY flowers or candy! Now I know not to bother getting him stuff like that - and he knows to take the time to do those things for me!

Wake up or let her find someone who can stir her inner passions the RIGHT WAY!

Nikko, what a thoughtful gesture on your part.
WhiteKnight, thanks for taking the time to think about it and post a reply that you obviously put some effort into.

When I first read your reply, WhiteKnight, the only thing I could think of was "Have you guys even done the EN questionnaire?!" but that sounds like a broken record on these forums, so I held back.

Hope said it better than I could have.

By the way, Have you guys even doen the EN questionnaire? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope:

Well, the reason I mentioned all those things about her is obviously because someone's life and background makes them the way they are. She is not s sex maniac, she is not a party girl, she is content with her two best friends and has no interest in anyone else.

Flowers and candy seem like a small price to pay for happiness and I would be happy to do it, but let's balance the scales shall we? I have done a lot more for her than anyone who could ONLY give flowers and candy, and thos ethings haven't mattered.

Incidentally, I think I have been just as hard on me in the past. Believ me when I say I can be like glue all over her. I have been ready and willing and making the effort to make her happy for years. Maybe it's just her personality.

I travel a lot on business. I can go the whole day without calling her and she doesn't seem to care. I can come home after being gone for a week and when I open the front door maybe she'll be there and kiss me, and other times she'll stay on the couch and wait for me to finish petting the cats before she gets up.

Maybe I'm with the wrong person.

oh dear god hope----i havent laughed that hard in years!!! thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

now onto you whitee--one--your attitude suck. she's right in everything she said.

something did strike me---you said you went out of your way to make it up to her. HOW????

AND DID SHE FALL IN LOVE WITH THAT GUY OR THIS ONE?? gotta tell you---this one doesnt sound like a prize. and comming from me---considering who im married to...aint good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> if the guy you are portraying here is the real you----we have a ton of work to do, get comfortable.( and be happy i havent called 2oak in yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

start there----answer this first and i'll continue.

Let me correct some of that. I am 100% certain that she loves me and CARES about me. I can list alot of things that she has done that are warm and considerate and loving. But she just as the type of personality that she does not NEED calls from me, she is not the jelous type, she is not the clingy type, and she is not affectionate in the least. sometimes that is just very difficult to deal with.

I know she does not dislike me. I am sure she does not hate sex or even dislike it. I just think it is not a thought in he rmind at all.
Yes, I took nthat test. Are oyu kidding. With STILLWED around, you've got no choice! LOL! I forgot what I was --- an 8 or 9. Whichever one was the hot-tempered, forceful, independent type. W was a 1, I think.

in response to the post you just made---my husband has lavished all kinds of **** on me---id give them all back and then some for his time. real time, where i mattered. not just what he is willing to give me. ive been in your wife's shoes--ive lived that lonely life before and after my husbands affair---and yes i lost all interest in sex. nothing medical like he wanted to thrust on me....mush like you did today....just he was an ******* and i didnt want to fu*& him. that simple enough for ya!!

Nikko:

If you read enough of my posts you've probably realized by now that I can come across as rather sarcastic. People have often told me they can not distinguish between when I am being serious or joking. I know I can come across as if I have a crappy attitude, but I don't. I'm actually making myself laugh sometimes when I think certain things. I mean, honestly, my W really isn't like a corpse in a morgue! A corpse is much WARMER!

Seriously, thatother guy was just some guy she went out and felt sorry for, her mom tells me. Actually for awhile I thought my W was lying about it and that other guy, in some strange psychological strategy to "push someone out of her life." I mean, stranger things have been done in relationships.

Nope, I am quite certain I am the guy she loves. But if she is love with some guy she went out with at 21 or whatever, then she can go back to him for awhile. Let's see how much he tolerates.

ok breathe----the two guys im reffering to are both you! not some guy at 21.

she met up with you again and you went out of your way to make up to her what you had done(i guess you mean breaking up with her). im asking if thats the you she fell in love with. the one who did everything possible.

cause hunny--that aint who you are now.

now go back with this clarified and answer me again. i'll wait

WK,

The big deal about the flowers and candy are that they may be "THE KEY" to releasing what has been locked up. They represent the fact that you thought of her and only her. The trips and other things could be seen by her as something for both of you instead of just her.

The problem you have may be that you are trying to please her in "your" way instead of hers. I've had years experience in doing just that. I thought if I did X & Y that my wife should be happy and was frustrated when she wasn't. The fact remained that she didn't want or need X & Y, she needed just Z. Just this morning she said that me cleaning the house is like foreplay to her. Well then let me get out the vacuum cleaner and mop, right away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She let me know very clearly that she associates a clean home with the beginning of openin up to me for SF. Married 14 years and NEVER knew it! Do I understand how SF and clean house are linked? Not completely, but if that's what enriches our SF then I'm all for cleaning the house.

Find out the "what's" and "how's" and leave the "why's" alone.

One last thought. Many people here deal with the fruit that's on the tree. If we deal with the root of the tree, the fruit will take care of itself. Remember, healthy roots, healthy fruit!

Hope this helps.

Titleist

Mr Knight -

Honestly, I'm not trying to bust your chops. Everything you're spouting is so similiar to what H and I went through.

Now, in the quiet vs outspoken department we are the opposite of you two. But it was still a big issue for us. I have NO PROBLEM telling you exactly what I'm thinking and feeling and I'll GLADLY draw you a picture (I carry my own slides...ok, not really). My H is quiet and seems shy if you don't really know him. But let me tell you something about the shy quiet types - don't make the mistake of assuming they don't have blistering hot passions boiling deep within. It just takes a little more of a safe and secure setting for them to unleash them.

Things you are saying in your post "I gave her more than that" - how condescending! So you're all that AND a bag of chips and how d(*& lucky she is to have you!! My hubby tried that cr@p with me too. I had a tough life as a kid and what we have today (although still very average) is way more than I had growing up. My H felt like I wouldn't have had these things if it were not for him. Oh really?? I will grant you that life has probably been easier with the two of us working TOGETHER to get where we are today - but there is no doubt in my mind that I am strong enough, smart enough, and driven enough to have gotten to this point eventually either on my own, or with someone else. Who I am today is not something that someone else gave to me. Who your wife is today is not due to trips you took her on.

You're probably thinking "Hey, I've never TOLD her these things", but buddy - women are PERCEPTIVE and your superior attitude more than likely comes through many of your actions and comments. I felt it long before my husband ever confirmed that he had thought things like that. He!!, I knew it before he did.

You're simply going to need to gain a lot more respect for her as a person before you're going to be able to change anything in your relationship.

A couple other things:

A couple of books I would highly recommend (roll your eyes if you want) would be Love Languages, and Passionate Marriage. My H read Love Languages and liked it alot. It has a lot to do with what we're saying here - how to figure out how your significant other feels love and how YOU feel loved, and how to ASK FOR IT APPROPRIATLY. Passionate Marriage goes deeper and is an EXCELLENT read, but it took me almost a year. It delves right in to the sexual area of your relationship, too. It's written by a sex therapist.

The other thing I was going to mention. My H was very satisfied with a mediocre relationship prior to our 'awakenings'. He never would have demanded more. That's how he was raised. I thought maybe I'd married the wrong person too. Things can change - oh baby they can change!!!

OK, you all have inspired me. I can't believe it, but I am going to zoom out of here and be in 5 O'clock traffic and spend some $$$. Two things I hate to do. I'm off to buy some flowers and dessert and some expensive pasta and clean the house and light some candles and put on Air Supply (LOL!)

Just so you know, if I waste all this $$$ and don't have sex this month, it's all your fault. I could have spent it on a prostitute! Just kidding!

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight ]</small>

waiting.........patience isnt a virtue of mine---ask around!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ugh - well....good luck with that. I found your post very amusing and yet I got an uneasy feeling too. I certainly do hope you get a little - however, please don't think that just doing those things will turn everything around over night. For one thing, maybe flowers and candy AREN'T her deal - you need to work together to figure out what is. And the other thing is that you're going in to this with expectations. It took years to form these habits - it's going to take more than one night of scrubbing the toilet to turn things around.

But it's a start!! And I commend you for that!

i swear if you do this to your wife you are gonna lose her forever!!!!!

what the hell is wrong with you. you are still deceiving her. if she finally gets what she want and releases herself to you...and then finds out about your affair.....and she will...you will destroy her totally!!!

good god---stop thinking with your [censored]!!!

OOPS. DOUBLE POST. IGNORE ME.

<small>[ April 16, 2004, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight ]</small>

nikko:

You have done your good deed for the day. All of you have. I'm off.

But in answer you your question ... I guess you are still wondering if she fell in love with the ME before I broke up with her or AFTER. Well, I don't know. Good question. Great question, actually. I have no idea. Maybe it was exciting to fall in love at 18, and I was her first love, first guy she had sex with, etc. But I am certainly a much better perosn now (well, maybe not MUCH), but I at least have a life now. I'm not just some kid who was looking to bang to cute blond in the inventory room of the bookstore. truth be told, that's all I wanted back then.

The NEXT time I was with her, I wanted to be with HER.

So I am in LOVE with W after breakup and now. Before that, it wasn't love. But as for her ... I don't know. Would W waste all this time with me if she wasn't, and still in love with some pretty boy from way-back-when? You might be able to answer that better than me.

Yeah, I know. I'm still here. You're right. She still doens't know about the A, and revealing it to her is top priority. But either way, everyone's advice is really good.

Of course, it would be nice if she thought about my NEEDS to.

Relax. I'm still here. I hate traffic.