i think part of it is that H is leaving town tommorow until thurs night, 5 days gone all together. i'm having anxity attack, my stomach is in knots. i'm going to go to park with son as soon as i am done with this post. H had a late afternoon shoot and is not back yet. Daughter just left for a weekend girl scout outting.

so what is bothering me.... well, i was feeling great eariler today... i feel like things are going pretty good the last few days. H wanted to golf this morning, i had to be to work early. the plan was to let daughter get herself to school and H would get back home by 8am to get son up and to school. i don't mind when he does that during the summer, kids just sleep in late, but to leave them to golf when they have school, i don't really like that. i know he is anxious to golf with the weather turning nicer. so i decided to go to work late. besides it was son's b-day. H was happy i would be home in the morning, that way he could play 18 holes instead of just 9. daughter was really glad i was home in the morning, i don't think she liked idea of getting up and going off to school without a hug from one of us, she is in 8th grade and i got to give my son a b-day hug first thing. so i really was glad to be home in the morning, it allowed H to golf and i got to see the kids, win-win. well not for work, but oh well!!!

for a b-day treat to bring to school, son wanted mini-eclears, i took him to neighborhood bakery, doubled back at home to leave one out for H on a piece of paper that said "Have a great day" and under the eclear, "I love you". then i went to work.

around 11:45, i called home because H had not called me yet, left a msg saying i hope golfing was fun, give me a call. at one point he mentioned us maybe having lunch today, it was ok that we didn't i had something going on at work anyway. but i had expected a call.

around 3:15 i called again, he was home, he never listened to phone msgs, he had gotten the eclear, he fell asleep and had woken up about 30 min before i called him.

at first i was hurt, i was expecting a call from him, he said he would call when he got home and then i left the treat out for him, wouldn't that make a person want to call. and here is where i need attitude adjustment. I DID NOT LEAVE TREAT FOR HIM TO MAKE HIM CALL ME, I LEFT IT OUT CAUSE I JUST WANTED TO DO SOMETHING NICE. (that last stmt is more for me to hear than anyone else) but i am hurt he didn't call me. so although my brain is telling me one thing, my feelings are telling me another and my stomach is in knots.

why? because he is leaving soon and i know i'm going to miss him and i don't want our last night together to be a chilly one but i fear that is exactly what it will be. i am guessing he must be having a bad day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i am guessing it is because of something that occured between us last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (i.e. SF stuff) he did something he has not done since d-day and a different position too. i'm thinking he is not feeling good about it today, and that makes me sad.

i know i should not jump to any of the above conclusions but i am.

help... i don't want to do anything to make matters worse. should i even acknowledge how i am feeling and why or just get over it and let it go. i know i should just get over it and let it go. any advice on how to get to feeling better about it all would be appreciated. (i know you will all say, you guys are doing great, just relax, there are bound to be days like this, just give him space if thats what he needs but let him know you love him) and those are good things to say but maybe it will have more impact on me if you all say it. cause i'm not getting totally thru to myself.

thanks.

WOMEN!!!

What the heck are us guys going to do with you guys? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously, chill FL. I have played gold and not called my W or even checked the messages, they usually aren't for me anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

This is just a guy mess up. Don't read anything into it. This is NOT a biggie at worst it is a little passive resistence, let it slide. Believe me if he makes a major decision you will know.

So calm down, enjoy the night together, then enjoy a little peace and quiet when he is gone and use the time to recharge your batteries. You don't have to be on your best behavior around him for 5 days. Relax, calm down, get your balance back, enjoy b-day boy.

You are doing well, no need to go LOOKING for trouble.

Have a good one.

JL

ok, one more thing to throw out there...

i am also struggling with thoughts about OM the last few days. i really HATE admitting that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i've even been tempted to call him. i can't for the life of me figure out why that is!!!! very frustrating, but the urges are there and i know i should stop trying to just ignore them. problem is, i don't know what to do about them. i know i don't want to act on them. but trying to ignore them is just resulting in them getting stronger.

and H tells me he does not feel safe with me, and that makes me sad but the truth is he obviously should NOT feel safe with me. i am not obviously not able to keep him safe.

yes Roman, i will definitely find time today to read and pray tonight before bed!!!! i need it very much.

FL,

I am going to say something that is very counter intuitive and it may not work. If I tell you to NOT think about an elephant what comes to your mind. You should NOT try and NOT think about OM. What you should do is take those thoughts, examine them (talk to yourself) what triggered this thought? what does it mean? What is it trying to tell me? View it as a dream that may have a message but it is NOT the obvious.

If you feel the need to talk, that may actually mean you just need to talk to SOMEBODY. Come here, talk to H, do something, but don't try and put it out of your mind, examine it so that you can file it appropriately.

FL, what you need to strive for is have thoughts of OM show up, but have produce NO feelings at all. HE was an event in your life, like a car wreck. You need to heal so that the pain and feelings go away, but the thought of the wreck will NOT.

Do you see what I am saying. Your thoughts of OM are your brain responding to stimulii, you picture OM but something else is going on, and it may just that you need to take a deep breath and think about it.

I use to do a lot of running, and I would sort of do a system check. Legs hurting? Check, Lungs hurting? Check, stride shortening? Lengthen it. Ok all systems are doing what they are supposed to do. And that included the pain which would go away when I hit the finish line. So I did NOT worry about it. Now if I felt a deep radiating pain in my chest, or the knee was getting painful, NOW we have a problem.

Your brain is giving you a systems check all of the chemicals from the affair have not been rewired yet, but it may be a reflection of your internal pain and wanting to escape. Images of OM may be simply your emotions wanting to escape.

So take another look at this. You will never forget OM. You will have flashes, but the feelings will go. Give it time.

God Bless,

JL

thanks JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i agree, trying to just not not think about it makes me think about it more. i will do some reading/reflecting/praying and journaling tonight.

right now, off to play mini golf with son and H in a few minutes.

and regarding golf and all that stuff, i hear ya. i wasn't looking for him to call me WHILE he was golfing, although come to think of it, he did call to check on us and make sure kids and i were up and getting off to school. i just was wanting to hear from him once he got home. i can be so insecure sometimes!!! i get to worrying so fast. but you are right, if he is going to make any big decision, he will let me know.

regarding him going out of town, part of me likes the idea of the break, part of me is worried.

FL...I can understand your sensitivity issues with H. You are trying so hard and you don't feel like he's responding. He is, just in his own way. He's a man!!! (just kidding).

The break will probably do you guys good.

FL, my feeling is that 5 days away are going to be harder on your H than on you. Not that he will worry about what you are doing but he will have some down time and get to thinkin. I think you can mention to him that you are worried about him and discuss your feelings if he's willing to listen. Maybe try to lighten things up a little. It does seem like you are moving in the right direction and that's all one can hope for.

thanks, evening has been good, started out feeling tense but mini-golf was good for everyone. hopefully our last night together will be nice after son gets in bed too.

Hi JL,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> what you need to strive for is have thoughts of OM show up, but have produce NO feelings at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i'm not there yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i feel i need to ramble here a bit.

the feeling produced is sadness, sadness it all ended up so messed up. i really cared about OM. At a time in my life when i was so derailed due to issues with marriage and then my dad's illness and death, this person was there, this person really helped me.

of course, knowing this person also resulted in my marriage becoming even more screwed up!! but that was not his fault, it was mine, i never followed thru on divorce like is said i was.

and it is not even that i want a future with this person. i don't, well i kinda do but not realistically.

i think i am worried that i won't be able to be as comfortable with my H as i was with OM, because i never had that strong of a comfort level with H.

So that means i need to understand why and then communicate with H.

The only why i can come up with is that i don't think H likes the deep down inner me. or maybe better said, i don't think H is the type that wants a deep relationship.

but, how can i be thinking that about him when he has worked so hard to keep us together for all this time. what would it take for me to believe he does?

i fear so much that things will go back to the way they used to be. maybe that fear stems from the comments H makes when he said our M had problems, but nothing so bad that should of resulted in me wanting to walk.

that comment scares me, it's like a slip backwards in my eyes. if he doesn't understand just how bad it was from my perspective, what is going to keep it from going right back there. i was so lonely back then. he never wanted to do anything with me. i want to share my life with him. i can't bear being married and lonely again.

Finally Learning..

I just want to thank you for your post today.. I actually just got on to post. It has been over 7 months since I have seen OM. I STILL miss him.

H and I are struggling so much with all the M issues that are still there. He also brings up OM, don't know if he will ever get over that, heck he doesn't

But, my point. Today, it is killing me to not contact OM. Like you he was there for me through a time that was very difficult. He was my "safe place". He could share his feelings so easily and read me so well. H is trying and learning but thinking of other peoples feelings just isn't natural for him. It is work. Anyway the pull, and actual ache inside is just awful. I won't act on it, but thank you for sharing, I have really followed your story.

Thanks to all the people who replied, it helps so many to read.

FL,

I have an idea why you might be thinking of OM. Happened to me TODAY and surprised the poop outta me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I was real clear on why it happened, maybe you're the same...

Is it because you're stressed, and you've conditioned yourself to think of OM as an escape? A fantasy sanctuary? A place to run to when things get tough? Now, you're stressing over your H's upcoming trip, and maybe your S's birthday, and while you know you should turn to your H, you also don't want to burden him because he has enough on his plate? So *poof* OM is the learned coping mechanism and he pops into your mind, unbidden. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

That's my guess, anyway. If that's what is happening with you, you should find a new escape habit, and learn it. A bubble bath, a pedicure, a favorite magazine... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FL,
I just got back from a short trip with my W. Things went very well and very positive. The trip was a mix of busness and pleasure. Lots of fun which is what we need right now. I was reading your posts from last week and saw todays. First, thanks for the feedback last week, I think you have a good point and it is somthing I have been thinking about for a while. I look at it this way, the more nice things I do for her, the more guilty she feels. It is a rock and a hard place. I want her to know I still love her and do forgive her. However, when I do nice things, it brings shame. So what do you do? Expect more? There have been moments when I hold back some, not out of anger, but out of love. My thinking is she needs to do more for me to feel better about herself. There were many instances during the A that she did things to help me. I think mainly out of guilt, but also to keep from losing me. She knows that she still risks losing me. I am a constant reminder of her choice.

I wanted to ask you what you thought about that. Also, my thoughts are to pull back more and allow God to deliver the opportunities to show her my love. If I am trying to win her back, I need to create a hunger in her for that. My goal over the weekend was to put zero pressure on her and give her room to show me affection. I pretty much accomplished that goal. There was only one moment where we got serious, but we did not discuss the A, just feelings. I think talking about the A at this stage is detremental to reaching recovery. I really think that laughing and having fun are the best. Being positive and just small talk are the way to go. The healing is going on, but if I obsess about it, the wound will reopen. If I relax and pull back, it will get better.

You posts have made me think alot about triggers. I remember asking you what will you do when you feel rejected. I know that you are struggling for that very reason. Will he ever change? Will my W ever change? Guess what the answer to that is? We don't know!! I understand your concern. You don't want to be lonely, you want to be happy. I really believe most mariages are lonely. Why are there so many affairs? Why do people divorce and remarry so often? Lonely people who want to be happy. They crave it. The bottom line is that we can't change our mates, only influence them. If we want to be married to them, we must accept them the way they are and do things to influence them. But it seems we are always bent on changing them. This was a real struggle for me. Putting conditions on our mate won't work. We need to give our love unconditionally. We are often rejected and our needs are unmet. But don't give your love just to get love back.

I think I understand this better now than ever, but it seems that anything that takes you back to before the A is a trigger. SH mentioned that her H still talks about OM. Why?? Its bad enough to think about the A. You even said OM was not for you. I think sometimes we get in a rut with the A. The reality is that most likely we would be no better off with another person, unless there is some type of abuse. People don't realize that your chances of succeessful marriage decrease when you divorce and remarry. Our feelings will deceive us when they control us. But it is so hard not to react to our feelings. That's where our choices make a difference. That's why God says you will be tempted, but with every temptation, God provides you with a way to escape it. It seems we need to make a choice before the temptation hits us.

I am not saying we have to settle for being lonely. We don't, but we can do somthing about it. We can change and we can influnce, that's it. We must remember that everyone wants to be happy and no one wants to be disappointed. The disappontments will steal our happiness, if we let it. Maybe we try to make our spouses happy the best we can and apologize for the disappontments. And when we are disappointed, we try to still make our spouses happy, but also communicate our disappointment in a loving way. Not out of anger or fear. Find out what make them happy and really focus on that. I believe the response will be positive and in the long run your spouse will find out what makes you happy. It just that sometimes we need to tell them in a loving indirect way.

FL, I know in my heart you will make the right choices and you will get through this. There is alot of issues to resolve ahead for both of us, but it will be worth it in the long run. That's God's promise. We just have to trust Him.

Christ's Love,
Roman

i read all your responses earlier but i just could not reply until now, which is actually my 3rd attempt!!

sohard, i'm sorry you are struggling so much today too. i'm glad reading helps you. writing and being heard really helps me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i very much relate to the "safe place" feeling.

I liked turtlehead's post...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it because you're stressed, and you've conditioned yourself to think of OM as an escape? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes, that is exactly right because that is exactly what he was, my escape. and the desire to escape right now is huge. my brain knows that "escape" is really a prison, but my heart remembers how good and safe it felt.

finding a new "escape" is exactly what i need to do. for me, it needs to be a spiritual thing. finding a concret action that goes along with that is what i still need to really figure out. but i know it has to be spiritual based.

roman, nice to hear from you. great news about the time with your W. I am really glad you had a good trip.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My thinking is she needs to do more for me to feel better about herself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i agree with that. so show her how she can do that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also, my thoughts are to pull back more and allow God to deliver the opportunities to show her my love. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i don't know if i agree with that one or not.

of course i really may not be able to give any clear thoughts right now. it is 2am here. i have not been up all night or anything. i was asleep. H had called around 10pm to say goodnight to kids and told me he would call to talk to me when he got back to room, he was going to dinner with others there for the same job. 2 hr time difference, he got back in at 11pm his time, 1am my time. i need to get back to sleep.

Hi roman,

hows it going?? you had a lot of thoughts going on in your last post here.

like:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We can change and we can influnce, that's it. We must remember that everyone wants to be happy and no one wants to be disappointed. The disappontments will steal our happiness, if we let it. Maybe we try to make our spouses happy the best we can and apologize for the disappontments. And when we are disappointed, we try to still make our spouses happy, but also communicate our disappointment in a loving way. Not out of anger or fear. Find out what make them happy and really focus on that. I believe the response will be positive and in the long run your spouse will find out what makes you happy. It just that sometimes we need to tell them in a loving indirect way.

FL, I know in my heart you will make the right choices and you will get through this. There is alot of issues to resolve ahead for both of us, but it will be worth it in the long run. That's God's promise. We just have to trust Him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i agree <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>