All right, it's been a long, long week. I've been up, down, up, down. First, I want to thank everyone for posting me back! I've learned that I'm not alone, and that there are so many similar stories. That made me feel like I wasn't so whacked. I also apologize for not answering all the questions-I guess I didn't know that was part of it! I'll start writing down Q so I can respond. But this week at MB was tough to take. I see I'm in the deep fog, withdrawal, and some depression. Q-how does one get anti-D's? What do you say to your Dr? I wonder if it would help my urges for contact...Well, here's a brief update on my week...After breaking NC w/OM, I felt just alittle better, but I still knew it was not the same with us. I read that the OM may have taken advantage of me, he had 4 other A, knew what he was doing. I was a willing person, but I said no for a year...He knew about getting emotionally involved, and I didn't. Anyway, this week I went through thoughts like, maybe it'll work out, screw him, I'm done, good luck with your life...I am in the fog, cause I can't see and think clearly. Yesterday was his birthday, and it took all in me NOT to call. I made it to about 3:00- we ended up fighting...He wants to be done, and I was in total denial. I will not become psycho!!! So this morning, I'm back on the MB site, starting all over. It's like I have one day at a time goals to get over this jerk. Anyway, again, thankyou for all the advice, I do need and look forward to all the knowledge...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Q-how does one get anti-D's?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You get a prescription from your Doctor. I personally prefer beginning with Wellbutrin because it doesn't have the sexual side affects of other anti-depression or anti-anxiety medications. In addition, Wellbutrin is the same medication that is used in things like Zyban, to help people stop smoking by limiting the withdrawal symptoms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you say to your Dr?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can tell him the truth and that you need help for a while with your depression and anxieties.

You can tell him that you are struggling with stopping smoking and have heard that Wellbutrin often helps and would like to try that for a while.

You simply need to remember that what you tell your doctor is said in confidence and will not be revealed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder if it would help my urges for contact. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, it won't help with addictive "urges", but it will give you the ability to make a rational decision to simply say "no" when those urges hit.

That is the purpose of the medication, to give you mental control for clear and rational thinking, and to not let your wildly swinging emotions control your behavior.

Good luck!

thankyou forever...I would love to make a rational decision reguarding OM, it's been a while. Part of me can't understand why I can't say, " see ya, have a nice life! " It's like, he's got this hold around my thinking...

Hi JetGirl,

I'm a BS, so our situations are different. But I did a lot of reading trying to figure out what my husband was feeling and how to help him. So I hope this is of some help:

"I see I'm in the deep fog, withdrawal, and some depression."

This in itself is a big step IMO. It helps to realize that the affair is not 'love' but more like an addiction that distorts your reasoning and involves withdrawal effects. Of course that makes it more painful (for the moment... BUT much less overall pain if that realization can help you end the addiction sooner).

"Q-how does one get anti-D's? What do you say to your Dr?"

Well, I would guess all you have to do is ask the Dr. As to giving a reason for needing the anti-depressant, maybe you could just tell the Dr. that you are struggling with sadness and having trouble withdrawing from an affair that you know must end but having trouble with withdrawal-type side effects?

(In my case, as the BS, my doctor had been trying to talk me into taking an anti-depressant for about a year. I kept saying no partly because I was afraid of taking a drug and partly because I felt I should tough it out... It wasn't until I was in for a check-up and couldn't stop crying, that I agreed to try it. I have been much better and wish I had started sooner. I started feeling better within days but it does take a while for the full effect.

"I wonder if it would help my urges for contact"

YES. Plus it will help you see things more clearly, feel less needy and more self-respect. You will be able to see that although you may want to be with him, you don't really need to.

"Well, here's a brief update on my week...After breaking NC w/OM, I felt just a little better,"

Yes, breaking NC will give you a bit of a 'fix' or temporarily make you feel good - literally a chemical high. The 'chemistry' is very real in the science sense: your body will produce more of the feel-good chemicals when you have contact with him - keeping you addicted. BUT it will always be followed by a trough of depression and a 'down' after the high. And it is not 'chemistry' in the this is 'true love', 'we belong together' sense...

"but I still knew it was not the same with us."

This is good news - that you do realize this. It will help you resist the urge to contact him to get the momentary fix. I read that although the contact makes you feel good, the realization that it just won't work out will separate WS & OP again, and then the depression just returns with a vengence. So even though the fix feels good and temporarily eases the depression, contact really should be avoided in order to protect yourself from having to repeat the same painful cycle over and over again. (My WH & OW realize this also and WH has expressed it to me many times... BUT he blames me for spoiling their fun and can't seem to give up the hopeless hope that somehow magically the feelings will return for them...Also, in our case, the OW apparently is naive enough to hope that if he just shoves his wife and daughters totally out of his life they can be happy again...)

"I read that the OM may have taken advantage of me, he had 4 other A, knew what he was doing."

There are people who have AN affair, which then causes problems (foggy thinking, behavior that violates their normal morals, addiction, the pain of withdrawal)... and then there are people who have problems that cause them to have affairS. Your affair was with a serial adulterer. My guess is his wife is probably aware by now that he is a serial adulterer. And it's a pretty sure bet he's promised her he would never do it again (in order to avoid the individual counseling he needs to get to the real root of his problem - which most likely has nothing whatsoever to do with his wife). And most likely she has been more than willing to help him with his problem and is bending over backwards trying to satisfy his needs so he won't go elsewhere. But the problems of a serial adulterer require individual counseling and not even a whole harem of perfectly adorarable, adoring, perfect wives will be able to 'satisfy' him enough to keep him from straying. In fact serial adulterers are adept at putting up walls to keep their loving spouse at a distance (so the faithful spouse is rejected when they try to meet the very needs that the serial adulterer then complains to his adultery partners are not being met at home).


"I was a willing person, but I said no for a year..."

My husband asked me out for 6 months before I dated him. I think that's why he was so attracted to me - because I was such a challenge (knowledge that helps me stay in plan B now). Also, my husband insists that all the OW he has are 'not sl*ts', 'not like that', etc. It may be that it's more of a challenge to get the 'good girls' to commit adultery? (I do know though in some cases OW knows she's being lied to but pretends to believe WH rather than NOT appear to be a 'good girl' in his eyes.)

In general men like to pursue instead of being pursued. And people in general value something more if they think they can't have it. Salesmen sometimes even use this tactic: they allow the customer to handle the merchandise, put the contract in their hand... but if the customer balks the salesman takes the merchandise or contract away from the customer rather than waiting for the customer to hand it back. It makes the customer feel like they're losing something and to then want it (just because they're being told they can't have it). Sort of silly. Because he's a serial adulterer it's highly unlikely you were his only romantic pursuit during your time with him. During one affair my husband had (6-10 months long) he 'cheated' on the OW twice (that she found out about - probably was more). Once he 'scored' you he probably started pursuing others behind your back (it's some sort of sick game for serial adulterers).

I'm curious what it is that caused you to eventually give in? Because your initial instincts were right about him. And why didn't you contact his wife at some point to let her know what he was up to and/or to check out his story?

"He knew about getting emotionally involved, and I didn't."

(Here I go making another generalization):
In general sexual fulfillment is one of the most important emotional needs for males and things like conversation and affection the more important emotional needs for females. (I read that at this site and in the book Surving An Affair) Serial adulterers are very good at 'picking up' women. My husband could write a book on how to make a woman feel as if HE is madly in love with HER! (But it's all smoke and mirrors - the family counselor says he really doesn't know how to love anyone - not even himself). My husband is very convincing but absolutely shallow. He can make you feel so wonderful but he can also make you feel you wish you never met him. He's incredibly emotionally abusive - a real heartbreaker BECAUSE he is so skilled at making you feel so good, so in love with him, pretending he cares about you (when it suits his agenda - AND usually his agenda is keeping you hooked so he can use and hurt you even more).

"Anyway, this week I went through thoughts like, maybe it'll work out,"

Fog and addiction - he will only hurt you more. Seriously, unless you really love him enough to try to stand by him through all the individual counseling that MIGHT help him someday give up serial adultery, the best advice I can give to you is stay as far away from him as possible! Serial adulterers are majorly screwed up and odds are anyone who tries to stand by them will end up insane too instead of being able to help them out of their insanity. After I started reading the book Silent Sons I was able to more realistically face the truth that I probably won't be able to help my WH.

"screw him, I'm done, good luck with your life..."

This is the only way to protect yourself from him hurting you even more.

"I am in the fog, cause I can't see and think clearly."

Actually you're sounding pretty smart right now. I can only pray (and worry/wonder) if my husband's latest OW is finally getting the big picture too?

"Yesterday was his birthday, and it took all in me NOT to call. I made it to about 3:00"

Good for you for resisting (at least until later in the day). You are building strength each time you successfully resist the urge to call him. Sorry you were unable to keep resisting but it does get easier with each victory. (We BS's have to struggle with this too when we have to resist the urge to call the WS during plan B)

"- we ended up fighting...He wants to be done, and I was in total denial. I will not become psycho!!!"

Although it is painful feeling rejected, it's a good sign that he wants to end the affair. It will make the overall pain for all involved less the sooner it's over. Stay tough. You snuck a cigarette BUT you realized and admitted right away that it was a mistake. Ask the Dr. for an anti-depressant to help (sort of like your nicotine patch). You sound as if you are intellegent and normally have too much self-respect to pursue rejection. You didn't hang onto the justification, his wife doesn't deserve/satisfy him, and this is my soulmate type arguments phase the way some do when they first start posting here. You seem to be progressing very quickly (and maturely) into the realization that it has to end ASAP.

"So this morning, I'm back on the MB site, starting all over."

We're proud of you. It gives me some hope to see that some OW are decent enough to face the truth and do the right thing. I will support you in any way I can (in ending the affair).

<small>[ April 20, 2004, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Jetgirl,
I'm so sorry you are in so much pain.

Like everyone else has said, make an appointment to see your Dr. and explain the depression, ask for a mild AD such as Welbutrin or Effexor. This will definitely take the edge off of the anxieties and depression and enable you to see things clearer and from a much more calm perspective.

One thing I think that might help is if you *stop* referring to yourself as the OW. Yes you are OMM's OW, but you are married, so you are really a WS. Perhaps this might help you with your perspective of *yourself*.

How are things going with your H? I can't remember if you said he knows of the A or not. You don't speak much about him so I am not sure.

What really has helped me with letting go of the OMM was NO CONTACT whatsoever and focusing on my H and M. Everytime I wanted to call OMM, I called H instead. Everytime I thought about OMM, which was constantly at first, I worked through the feelings, and then thought about good times and feelings w/H. I put all the focus that I put towards OMM towards my H and that helped me tremendously. It also made H very happy because I had neglected him for about a year and a half and he missed me so much. Also whenever I started thinking about OMM and the good times we had, and started to miss him, I forced myself to focus on his negative traits and that helped alot because I saw him as a liar, cheater, manipulator, control freak who still to this day has not confessed to his BW.

You must start seeing OMM in a different light, a more realistic one. The A was living out a fantasy and OMM only showed you his good, loving, care-free side, and left the stress, responsibilities, and negativity of his persona at home with his BW. Think about the reality of the situation as well. OMM is sleeping in bed with his BW every night. They probably cuddle in bed, and make love. They share a home and a family. They celebrate holidays, birthdays and anniversaries together, they share bills and responsibilites together. She cooks his dinner and washes his clothes. She sends him off to work in the morning. They are married and you have no business interfering with their life together.

Now, all those things that they share in their marriage, you could be sharing with your BH right now and the added bonus is that you get the COMPLETE PACKAGE of a husband, not the leftover scraps of another woman's husband.

Jetgirl, start focusing on how you can make your marriage more complete; more loving and productive and fulfilling for yourself and your H. If you continue to focus on this, the OMM will eventually mean nothing to you, because you will realize that your H is a million times the man that OMM is.

And again, if you haven't already confessed *everything* to your H, I suggest you do so as soon as possible so that you both can start re-building your marriage, based on forgiveness, trust, honesty and love.

It's only been a few months for me in recovery, and I never, ever thought I would get over OMM and love my H again, but amazingly this is where I am at right now. Yes, sometimes the memories and emotions of OMM sneak their way into my mind, but I am dealing with it a lot better and I have faith that it will eventually just be a bad memory that I can totally put behind me.

mrsx

jet:

Nothing more I can say that hasn't already been said here, but keep coming around. You can get lots of help and help others too. You know what needs to be done --- now do it! Don't turn into a psycho girl. It's just withdrawel. I've gone through it, everyone has. There is NOTHING original about your story. You're going to be ok!

thankyou meremortal and mrsx. I wish you you lived across the street from me...Your replies are like magic, I can't believe how true they are. It's like you were there with us.OM told me he had 4 A, starting after 1 year of marriage. I remember thinking what a smuck! What was wrong with him. How did his wife deal with that? I thought, she's a better woman than me. We worked together for a year and a half-he was very convincing! The letters, messages, they were intense. My H was very involved with his new company...I think I was just wide open for the A, and OM knew it. But I'm a big girl, I knew what I was doing. He was skilled at it, I wasn't. I remember thinking, what do I do, I've never done this before. And for his wife? We weren't friends, I met her when she would visit him at work. She definitly had him on a short leash, who could blame her, after 4 A. But she still wanted him- their marriage was their business. If he brought it up, we discussed it. I remember telling him, it wasn't fair to her and him! If he didn't want to be married to her, he should let her be loved the way she deserved to be, with another man, and him too. Time went on, then puff, its 5 years. The feelings we had never faded, until now. Thats that. Its dying a slow death. I can't believe you think I sound smart! That I'm building strength! I feel like a weak, stupid idiot, who is trying to let go. I wish it was months from now already...I can't wait to be out of the fog and maybe telling another woman, don't ever go there!

You'll get there jetgirl. Keep reading. Keep posting. When you feel the urge to contact---log on MB and READ!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by meremortal:
<strong>
"I read that the OM may have taken advantage of me, he had 4 other A, knew what he was doing."

There are people who have AN affair, which then causes problems (foggy thinking, behavior that violates their normal morals, addiction, the pain of withdrawal)... and then there are people who have problems that cause them to have affairS. Your affair was with a serial adulterer. My guess is hiw wife is probably aware by now that he is a serial adulterer. And it's a pretty sure bet he's promised her he would never do it again (in order to avoid the individual counseling he needs to get to the real root of his problem - which most likely has nothing whatsoever to do with his wife). And most likely she has been more than willing to help him with his problem and is bending over backwards trying to satisfy his needs so he won't go elsewhere. But the problems of a serial adulterer require individual counseling and not even a whole harem of perfectly adorarable, adoring, perfect wives will be able to 'satisfy' him enough to keep him from straying. In fact serial adulterers are adept at putting up walls to keep their loving spouse at a distance (so the faithful spouse is rejected when they try to meet the very needs that the serial adulterer then complains to his adultery partners are not being met at home).


"I was a willing person, but I said no for a year..."

My husband asked me out for 6 months before I dated him. I think that's why he was so attracted to me - because I was such a challenge (knowledge that helps me stay in plan B now). Also, my husband insists that all the OW he has are 'not sl*ts', 'not like that', etc. It may be that it's more of a challenge to get the 'good girls' to commit adultery? (I do know though in some cases OW knows she's being lied to but pretends to believe WH rather than NOT appear to be a 'good girl' in his eyes.)

In general men like to pursue instead of being pursued. And people in general value something more if they think they can't have it. Salesmen sometimes even use this tactic: they allow the customer to handle the merchandise, put the contract in their hand... but if the customer balks the salesman takes the merchandise or contract away from the customer rather than waiting for the customer to hand it back. It makes the customer feel like they're losing something and to then want it (just because they're being told they can't have it). Sort of silly. Because he's a serial adulterer it's highly unlikely you were his only romantic pursuit during your time with him. During one affair my husband had (6-10 months long) he 'cheated' on the OW twice (that she found out about - probably was more). Once he 'scored' you he probably started pursuing others behind your back (it's some sort of sick game for serial adulterers).


"He knew about getting emotionally involved, and I didn't."

(Here I go making another generalization):
In general sexual fulfillment is one of the most important emotional needs for males and things like conversation and affection the more important emotional needs for females. (I read that at this site and in the book Surving An Affair) Serial adulterers are very good at 'picking up' women. My husband could write a book on how to make a woman feel as if HE is madly in love with HER! (But it's all smoke and mirrors - the family counselor says he really doesn't know how to love anyone - not even himself). My husband is very convincing but absolutely shallow. He can make you feel so wonderful but he can also make you feel you wish you never met him. He's incredibly emotionally abusive - a real heartbreaker BECAUSE he is so skilled at making you feel so good, so in love with him, pretending he cares about you (when it suits his agenda - AND usually his agenda is keeping you hooked so he can use and hurt you even more).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry for hijacking the thread but this scares me! My H is a serial adulterer. And he is very good at making women think that he is deeply and truly in love (me included, probably me especially) We are in MC but he is not in IC. I fear that there is nothing I can do, or the counselor can do to change him. Would IC be a better option than MC? Should he be in both? Our MC suggested that I leave the room one day, I didn't. Maybe I should have? It's just that I feel like he has been hiding his true self from me for years, and having him tell the MC things he isn't willing to say in front of me feels like he's still hiding himself from me.

meremortal your post REALLY hit a nerve! very scary! It makes some things make sense to me that didn't before. My H has never really shown any "foggy" behavior after the affairs were over. Of those he told he loved, he said he only THOUGHT he loved them after the A was over. In a counseling session he said that he never even thinks about the last one untill I bring her up. The affair before that was more of the same, he didn't seem to think about her. When I told him I was going to tell her H (even though the a was over) he said he didn't care "do whatever you need to do to feel better".

THIS is what REALLY hit me! "And people in general value something more if they think they can't have it. Salesmen sometimes even use this tactic: they allow the customer to handle the merchandise, put the contract in their hand... but if the customer balks the salesman takes the merchandise or contract away from the customer rather than waiting for the customer to hand it back. It makes the customer feel like they're losing something and to then want it (just because they're being told they can't have it)."

My h has had 9 affairs in 25 years but never LEFT me until last year for the latest OW. She refused to have sex with him until he was out of our home and living in hers. The reason for that was for him she apparently was a conquest, but for her he was a meal ticket. I guess she knew that he wouldn't leave if she gave it up while he was still living with me. He has even SAID he doesn't think he would have left if she had let him have sex with her without that. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> doesn't make our life together sound very important when I think of it that way. You really gave me a lot to think about.

Do you have any advise? Or is my marriage destined to fail?

<small>[ April 18, 2004, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

toomany..

meremortals post is excellent...........

I fear that there is nothing I can do, or the counselor can do to change him.

knowledge is power...and what you have stated above is not a fear...but a fact...

wrap your mind and thoughts about the reality that you nor anyone else can change him..that it has to be his choice....

and for your husband it is a learning process...

he has no idea what love really means...
he has no idea what marriage really means...

none of that is your fault...
none of that is in your control...

even when that thought and reality scares and hurts you...try hard to push past that...and realize that it also frees you....

that you are not in any way shape or form responsible for his actions, choices or behavior...

and then make your plan from that...
if you are making a plan based on the premise that you can change him.....it will not work...

the individual counseling he needs to get to the real root of his problem - which most likely has nothing whatsoever to do with his wife). And most likely she has been more than willing to help him with his problem

My h has had 9 affairs in 25 years but never LEFT me until last year for the latest OW.

toomany....each affair was leaving you....
that's his reality that he either can and will come to understand....

Or is my marriage destined to fail?

change the question...is your marriage destined to begin and flourish.....

Perhaps you should consider some major major changes...

perhaps it is time to take all focus off him...and turn it towards you and decide exactly what it is you want....

perhaps it is time for you to quit marriage counseling and you go for individual couseling...
perhaps it is time for him to continue marriage counseling alone and see if he can even grasp the concept of what marriage is...

If he is such a pursuerer..perhaps the time is at hand to see if is willing to pursue marriage...

You need strict boundaries.
you need to quit doing so much work on the marriage...

you should consider severe 180's
you should consider having him attend a marriage seminar ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you should consider telling him...

dear..I understand clearly what marriage, vows and committment is all about...
I understand that you do not understand that concept...
I think you should attend a marraige builders seminar ALONE!!!!
or a Retrouville seminar ALONE..
and that the time is at hand for you to decide if it is something you desire and are willing to do the work on....

set the boundary....he no longer can have the marriage the way he has defined and disrepected it for 25 years...
and either he will rise to the occasion and begin the process of finding truu value in himself, and in you.....
and begin to see the gross disrepect he has brought to so many lives...including the OW..

consider plan b....
consider removing yourself from his equasion of chaos..

ark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My h has had 9 affairs in 25 years but never LEFT me until last year for the latest OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tomanylies - I know that this might hurt, and I am really sorry for that, but I think you need to hear some "hard truth" so that, hopefully, you will begin to understand what needs to be done.

Your husband "may" love you, but sounds more like the love for an object that gives us some pleasure and gratification. Everything you wrote seems to scream that he is a narcisist and totally focused on what "he" wants.

Lastly, what do you think about women who stay with men who physically abuse them over and over again...then cry, "I'm sorry, it'll never happen again."? Until the "next time."

YOU are the victim of repetitive and willful mental abuse by your husband.

Perhaps you should look into information like "Battered Women" groups, etc.

Or, consign yourself to this being your marital state for as long as YOU wish to continue to allow it.

Boundaries and Standards are sorely lacking, and sorely needed. So is the "backbone" to stand up for what is "Right and Wrong."

It may sound tough, but ONE affair is a "mistake." NINE of them is a willful, callous, disregard for any sanctity of the marriage vows and for you in particular. 25 years divided by 9 affairs....you do the math....and stop enabling your husband.

God bless and grant you the wisdom and the strength to do what is right.

Jetgirl

This old post might be of help...

Help for betrayers who want to stop but can't

TA

The first 7 affairs were early in our marriage. Everything from a ONS to affairs lasting a few months. There were about 15 faithful years and then he started again. Having one affair a few years ago and then another last year. Just wanted to clarify for those who don't remember every single word I've said here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Forever hers, I have heard the word "narcisist" before. Spoken by a mental health professional (not our MC) she said "I can't diagnose a man I've never had in my office, but I think you should read about narcisistic personality disorder, NPD" I did, and I have to be honest, it's possible that that is the problem. I hate to think that! I would like to exhaust all other possibilities first because if that is it, there is NO hope. The same psychologist or psychiatrist(?) said that I have been manipulated for years. Maybe I have, I hope not.

<small>[ April 18, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

toomanylies - I understand. But it would seem that even if the "diagnosis" is not 100% correct, that he does put his feelings ahead of anything else.

So it would appear that he needs individual psychiatric counseling to begin to deal with the issues that HE might have. He has some, but it will take a professional to begin to get him to recognize them and to undertake changes that are necessary.

The "starting again" thing is very common with addictions that have not had the root cause treated. He reached a point where his "willpower" to "just say 'no'" wasn't strong enough anymore. So he justified "one more 'hit'", and lo and behold, he was "hooked" again.

Please get some professional help to help both of you.

God bless.

JetGirl,

You CAN do this. Stick to no contact - no matter what you feel like or what justifications, or just one more time, I forgot to tell him this thing I really need to say... thoughts pop into your mind.

Just don't do it!

It really is like quitting an addiction. Lighting another cigarette never helped anyone quit.

No contact - no excuse!

TooManyLies,

Go to Plan B and STAY THERE!

Do you really want to pursue and just get abused again and again? Or do you want him to pursue you AND to want you badly enough to take responsibility to get his problems fixed and learn how to build a real marriage with you?
You can't do it for him and you can't make him want to do it by talking to him and trying to teach him. The ONLY thing you can do is let him go and maybe THEN he will want to come after you with (finally) the proper respect and love.

You can't command respect while begging for it.
You don't have him now, maybe never really did, so don't let the fear of losing him paralyze you from doing what you know you need to do.

I know how heartbreaking it is to realize the one you love is a serial adulterer. Don't you wish the popular assumption (that husbands stray because the wife didn't satisfy him at home) were all there was to it? Because then we could fix it, we could love them enough to ensure they wouldn't stray again. But it's never that simple (except maybe in the mind of some OW) and with serial adulterers it's so much more complicated. Even if our spouses had only one affair, we'd have to accept that it is their choice whether or not they will end the affair and restore the marriage. With a serial adulterer, you simply have to accept that you cannot have any more contact with him as long as he has his problems. Because you are in an abusive relationship. And the abuse will not stop until you start respecting yourself and demanding respect for yourself.

I would love to talk more with you about serial adultery. Maybe we should start a separate thread (or even a separate sub-board) to deal with serial adultery? It's not that Marriage Builders principles are different when it's been more than one affair. If anything they should be followed even more closely. IMO it becomes more important to follow all the steps PLUS to deal with the fact that it's serial adultery and a form of spousal abuse. For example, (IMO) exposure should not only be about revealing the (current) affair nut also about making everyone concerned (family, friends, OP and OP's family & friends) aware that the WS is a serial adulterer with severe problems that require IC.

JetGirl - This should be helping you resist contacting OM! Why in the world would you want to have anything to do with a serial adulterer?!?!? By the time I realized my husband was so screwed up we were already married and had a baby. The FC (family counselor) was so confident she could help my husband... until she met him. Now she just wants me (and my daughters - but I leave that choice up to them) to stay away from him. She says he's sociopathic, possibly schizophrenic, and definitely delusional (fog - but FC doesn't know about MB principles). I told the OW about his serial adultery problem (told her she was just OW #7), have no idea whether or not she believed me, BUT it might be part of reason OW stays broke up with him most of the time now. I don't know the OW's maiden name (goes by name of father of her child - even though he didn't marry her). If I did I would definitely expose to her family that the married man she's involved with is a serial adulterer. I don't even know if they're aware that he's not divorced yet, let alone even has a wife and kids. But I'm confident if they knew the truth they would want her to stop having anything to do with my husband.

<small>[ April 20, 2004, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I was in "planB" for a long time. About 3 months of no contact at all, I only saw him twice in 10 months. He asked me to come back permanently in August and even though I really did want to, I didn't think I could handle it. We didn't begin reconciliation until January. I don't know if that was long enough. I don't know if any amount of seperation would have been long enough to make him want to really change. I guess only time will tell.