Based on what friends who have gone to therapy have told me, their therapists either sit theire and nod their heads or give terrible advice.

I am curious to know what the benefits are of going to MC vs. reading books and coming to this sit and talking to friends?

What does MC consist of? Is it jus talking or are you given Personality Tests or whatever?

I have read a few posts here where people talk about how expensive MC and IC has become. How much is it anyway?

Is it something insurance would cover?

How long should people go for? Does the MC give you a game plan for the next 3 or 6 months or something?

What does your MC have to do or not do that would encourage you to seek another MC?

I don't have a problem going to MC with W and spilling all, and spending whatever has t be spent to make things right, but has anyone walked away from MC and felt like, "Geez, I could have done that on my own with a few workbooks?"

These are serious questions for me. I think a lot of people here can benefit from any feedback on this from any of you who have actually gone to MC.

Thanks!

WK

Hey WK...

I have been in IC for about 6 months now and we just started MC last week.

I have found IC very helpful because it provides me a forum where I can just "spill my guts". During this process I can talk and bounce idea's / thoughts back and forth with my Psychologist and it helps me to understand how I am, what makes me tick, etc...

It's horribly expensive too. Unfortunately insurance doesn't cover our MC or my IC so I pay 190.00 a week for the two combined. It's a pisser but what can you do?

As far as would it be better finding a book, I don't know. I like the idea of having a mediator, so to speak, to guide the conversations and help explain what is being felt by us spouses. Sometimes you need that so the discussion doesn't get nasty, and I don't mean nasty in a good way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am sure that there are others here that will have more info. Are you thinking about MC or IC for your situation?

whiteknight,

Not all MC are the same, some even more concern about the individual than saving the M !. So shop around and make sure that both of you are comfortable and MC has a good track record. I would counsel with Harley or Cerri directly. You know both of them pro-M and has saved many M.

Benefit ?. You can't "teach" your spouse so having 3rd person to help are definitly a plus. MFT has to go through hundreds of book and class room hours not to mention 3000 hours of practice before getting their license (at least in CA). They are professional. If you didn't get it right before what is the chance you get it right this time w/o making costly mistake ?.

Some MBer are DoItYourSelf types and they are successful saving their M. Are you ?. Is she ?.

-rh-

<small>[ April 19, 2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Is there such a thing as group MC? I know a lot of people don't want to discuss intimate details with other people; but seems like if AA and other groups out there can be successful with groups, MC could be too.

Is there such a thing?

Has anyone done that?

Of course I am considering MC, but I hate to waste time and / or money ... and I know plenty of people who have. For crying out loud, OW was in IC for 15 years and where did it get her? She told me her IC told her hat her H was gay and that she wa shappy that OW was finally having a great sex life! She encouraged her divorce and her pursuit of me! What a gal!

She sounds like a peach!!!

What about going through your church, that is if you go to church. That's how I found out about my IC and MC.

AA and others are not substitute for counseling. They will tell your right up front!. They are support groups like us here on MB Forum but more structured.

I had been volunteering as a group leader in Divorce Care. I am right now presenting Harley's Basic Concept to Relationship Building group in my church. Both groups are support group not subtitute for conseling!. Each people has their own "baggage" and their own unique problem, it requires individual treatment.

Do you know the different between MC & IC ?. IC works with you to addresss the issues or un-resolve baggage in your life. Again not all IC are the same. There are huge number of Christian Counselors out there too. In my church you will get a free counseling if you are a member <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . It used to be anyone who walks in but we are overwhelm by the response and out numbered. MC works with you and your W to address the issues in your M. MC might see you individually or send you to seek IC if you have unresolve baggage that you brought in as a contaminant in your M.

-rh-

WhiteKnight asked, "Is there such a thing as group MC?" and RedHat responded with a warning that groups are for support and not for counseling.

I sometimes attend support groups (one called Beyond Affairs Network for BS's and another for separated/divorced people). The Beyond Affairs Network support groups were founded by a woman whose husband was a serial adulterer. The local chapter that I attend is hosted by a woman who is married to a serial adulterer too. But most of the people who attend do not seem to know much about how to save their marriage, haven't hard of Marriage Builders concepts. And some who attend are divorced or plan to. The separated/divorced support group is even more like that - many divorced or heading for divorce. And some of those who show up at the separated/divorced support group are the WS's wanting to end their marriage because their 'wife is depressed and won't snap out of it' so they have to 'get on with their life'... I think a lot of the people are just showing up to find dates. The leader of the separated/divorced support group is divorced and talked a lot about dating and getting on with your life...

At both groups mostly what they did was each person told their story. The leader of the Beyond Affairs Network group soemtimes plans soemthign specific for us to discuss but there usually isn't enough time because of the 'updates' of everyone's stories. There was a video planned for the separated/divorced support group but it never got shown because everyone's stories took so long. And it sounded like the video was just about getting on with your life anyway.

So far the IC's, MC's and FC' (family counselors) I've tried don't seem to know anything about Marriage Builders concepts.

Insurance does cover some of counseling expense for us. If we could afford it I definitely would prefer to be counseled by the Harley's. My WH absolutely needs a counselor who will see through his con artistry but does not just give the 'get on with your life' advise. Unfortunately the only MC we've ever tried that my husband woudl agree to go back to talked a lot about how I need to protect my husband's reputation, never talk about the past/affairs, how I supposedly make my husband feel as if he's under attack... (um when I calmly refuted my husband's false accusations that I won't let him see his daughters and he pretended he only came to counseling session because I had supposedly used threat of never seeing daughters again to force him to come!) But my husband also needs an IC who can really reach him as well as a MC who applies Marriage Builders principles. My husband has a lot of problems form his childhood that really have nothing to do with me or our marriage. And I don't think he will stop his serial adultery until he solves those problems.

meremortal,

I had seen BAN but never attended one. In Dv Care or even in Relationship Building at hosted by my church, dating is prohibited. All the group leaders are lay conselors that has been taking classes from AACC. Yes, I agree with you about support groups dangers. As anything else buyer beware specially the free ones.

Sorry to hear about your M & H. Yes, many WS have issues beyond A and they should work on it (hopefully with SO's support) before they could work on their M.

I keep my insurance (via Cobra from my prior work, I am independent contractor now) b/c of their excellent coverage on IC. I will run out of the benefit soon, sigh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

-rh-

Very good feedback, everyone. Thanks!

The scary thing about going to a church for cousnseling is just sitting around waiting for the day when the MC ends up in the newspaper for messingwith little boys or hiring a hit man to kill his W or whatever. The church has taken a lot of hits in the last few years (make that, the last 1,000 years!)

Given a choice, I think I prefer a MC who is well versed in the concepts that are taught here at MC or something close to it. I am sure pastors and church counselors mean well, but experience and knowledge on psychology mean a heck of a lot more than good intentions.

In reference to Insurance, I know COBRA is very expensive. I have insurance through NASE. NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE SELF EMPLOYEES. It is very inexpensive and includes, health, dental, visiona nd life insurance. Something like $85.00 a month! My W is more expensive for I guess the same reason that W hair cuts are mor expensive. No real good reason. I never asked if they cover MC, but I thought I would chime in on this since we get a good deal on it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whiteknight:
<strong>Given a choice, I think I prefer a MC who is well versed in the concepts that are taught here at MC or something close to it. I am sure pastors and church counselors mean well, but experience and knowledge on psychology mean a heck of a lot more than good intentions.

In reference to Insurance, I know COBRA is very expensive. I have insurance through NASE. NATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE SELF EMPLOYEES. It is very inexpensive and includes, health, dental, visiona nd life insurance. Something like $85.00 a month! My W is more expensive for I guess the same reason that W hair cuts are mor expensive. No real good reason. I never asked if they cover MC, but I thought I would chime in on this since we get a good deal on it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, smaller church could can't afford full time counselor. In mine they have a full time pastor dedicated for counseling and relationship. He adopt MB principal in his marriage counseling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> We have a new volunteer that has a degree in counseling from christian colledge. We are all trained lay counselor using tele courses from AACC. I volunteer my time in there and ,by God's Will, I plan to start my MA in MFT program this fall. Don't dismiss it and check it out ... you might get both, good intention and knowledge.

Thanks for the tips about NASE, I will check it out. I am either going back to Rat Race in a corporate world or find my own insurance soon.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Rat Race in a corporate world or find my own insurance soon.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That comment alone should be sufficient to NO go back and join the "rat race." I've always been of the mind that if someone is going to work their butt's off, they should do it for themself. If possible, go open a BEN & JERRY'S. You'll make plenty of $ and you won't have a boss breathing down your neck. I'll never work for anyone else again. It's too much of a drag.

I appreciate your advice about the COUNSELING. Good intentions and knowledge seem to be the best way to go. It's a shame it costs time & money before findig the perfect fit. then again, the same can be said about finding an accountant or lawyer.

Has anyone ever heard of this or been to it? Any thoughts?http://www.lifeskillstraining.org/index.htm

I guess they offer MC.

WK...you may have already addressed this in a previous post, but have you told your w yet?

This is a good topic, WhiteKnight, I have similar questions myself. I did lots of counselling thougout my college years and it was enlightening, but ultimately didn't make a big difference.

I've been urged by many here to go get counselling for myself, and I intend to pursue it, but part of me says I'm just following advice without knowing why.

dewt

Lisa:

I'm planning on telling W next week. But for now, I want to kow as much as possible about MC so I know what options to suggest once the walls come tumbling down.

My original questions remain. Anyone who has been to MC or IC ---- please let me know your thoughts on all of it, what you got out of it, etc.

whiteknight,

I did both.

My MC was SH. I didn't salvage my M but I salvage me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I learn and ready for my next R.

My IC is my 2 D's IC too. She has helped me to close some unresolved issues in my past and has help me to cope with dating-phobia (is there such a thing ?). My insurance would run out soon I will still see her from out of pocket. I am still work in progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I want to dig deep to understand me.

-rh-

I guess my main concern is --- throughout my life, I met Doctors who made incorrect evaluations. I have worked with accountants who screwed up. I have worked with lawyers who barely knew the law. And I just wonder WHAT makes someone a good or great counselor? Is it someone young, who is fresh out of school and has the most up-to-date concepts and tests to work with, or someone older, with a lot of experience. Also, how do you ASK for a tracik record. Imagine if you found out the MC has screwed up all his or her clients! Would you hire an attorney who never won a case?

What is a fair price to pay someone to stare and nod their head and offer some feedback?

What motivation does the MC have for you to STOP coming, if they make money by your coming again and again and again?

I choose MB ... I go for the best in fixing M. I know back then the retainer fee for Dv lawyer itself would be pale comparison to total sessions that I would spend with SH. Well, you have to shop around and ask around !. You could interview your MC. You know that to get in SH's schedule is 2-3 weeks in advance unless you are flexible with your time.

If you so worry about getting ripped off ... check their backgound w/ the state to see if there is malpractice, get references about them, ask some peoples that you trust and know. But don't stop you to find one or make it as an excuse to avoid seeing one.

-rh-

whiteknight---in other threads you've reffered to the wonderfull life---trips gifts etc....use the harleys and stop worrying about the money. they have a plan...and its pretty hard to nod yer head on the phone and say nothing!!!