W and I had an ugly fight on Saturday with lots of alcohol involved (no there's nothing positive about that). She still isn't talking to me so I suppose she retained something of what I said. Certainly a few DJ's in there. Anyway I expect her to avoid Thursday's call with Harley as she has been looking for any excuse to get out of that. But she has begun talking to her sister. Her sister is very pro-marriage and knows our situation much better than W is aware. I have confided in her about a couple of things and she is very sympathetic. I don't think she will let on that we have spoken but I'm sure she has the tools to direct the conversation to the problem areas. That may surprise W that she would be so intuitive but I really think W desperately needs someone to talk to. I and her sister are admittedly her only true friends. I'm just wondering is this silent treatment somehow positive in that maybe she is entering into conflict stage with idea of coming emotionally back to the marriage. It has been dead for a lot longer than I realized and nicely masked with lots of alcohol over the years. I think we are more drinking buddies than husband and W. My IC pointed to alcohol as a big problem in M and until then I really hadn't considered that.

WOE

It could be a good sign that she is talking to her sister.

As for the silent treatment who knows. I would venture to guess that you probably said some hurtful stuff to your W and she is not talking to you because of it. But, with alcohol involved, ya never know.

We used to have the same problem in pur M:

Drink
Fight
Ignore each other (or one gives the silent treatment)
Make up.

Drink
Fight
Ignore
Make up...

over and over again.

While you guys are trying to recover your M, sorting out your feelings, identifying EN's, etc., I wouldn't drink. Doesn't help.

JMHO

SSS, thanks. I'm glad to know we're not alone in this cycle. Normally I'm pretty controlled and W gets a little more nasty. But I don't take it personally and put it in its proper context "bottle talk". But when IC told me to cut back W immediately noticed I was drinking with her. That made me realize we really did have a problem here. But I'm encouraged that she is talking to sister because honestly I'm scared for her. It seems like my approach has been like Chinese water torture. I tried to get her into MC, leave books and MB posts all over, check her phone etc. This has been going on for over two years and it seems like its taking its toll on her. I don't want to hurt her. If it ends I want us to be better for having known eachother. We do seem to be coming to a fork in the road one way or the other though.

well you know where i'm at in all of this, still new but i see it as positive if she talks to her sister. kudos to you for being able to preserve that family connection w/her sister as well that during this time that your W leans on her sister and then her sister will be able to help her. know that you can look back and that you've done all you could up to this point. hope that makes sense. so i see it as positive for the both of you. i'm sure your IC session will leave you feeling better, i don't think i've had a IC session that wasn't positive in some way.

anyway, you deserve an award for one of the best runners in a marathon to date, it's not over yet but you're doing superb so far. of course we all have our setbacks but so does every "athlete." stay the course and thanks for the replies to my post to you, they made me smile, prayers to you.

Thankfully, we are no longer in this cycle.

The cycle has been broken for us and has been for the last six months...since H has been going to AA and I've been going to Alanon.

I can't tell you how much better you can communicate, work on and view your M and relationship without alcohol.

It was amazing to me to learn that I really didn't know how bad this cycle was...until I was out of it.

sss

let us know how the talk goes between your W and your SIL if she let's you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Roughroad, thanks for your encouragement. IC has got my attention lately. At first he just sat there and listened for several weeks but lately he gives me some amazing feedback. He told me I need to be more in touch with my feelings and stop over analyzing everything with regard to my M. It is negatively effecting every area of my life. As far as her sister is concerned I'm real happy about this if only because it will bring wife and sister closer as they should be. They had a tough childhood and they should be more dependent on eachother regardless of our M. When you compare me to a marathon runner bear in mind I am dealing with a fading EA and not an intense PA. I look at younger people here, like yourself and marvel at the strength and perseverance. Real quick I'll bore you with a quick version of a poem I found here. It's called love island. It talks about all the emotions living on an island. Then there is a flood and everybody gets into their life boats. Love stays behind to help the others but as the flood waters rise she calls out for help. First she asks Vanity to help her but Vanity tells her that since Love is wet she will mess up the boat. Then she asks Richness who replies that with all the gold and silver their is simply no room. Then Sadness tells Love that she just wants to be alone in her boat. So just as Love is ready to give up someone comes by and says I'll help you. She gets into one of the elders boats who delivers her to safety. After she is safely onshore she forgot to see who helped her. She asked Knowlege who it was that helped her. Knowlege replied that it was Time. She asked why is it that Time would help when none of the others would. Knowlege replied because "ONLY TIME IS CAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING HOW GREAT LOVE IS". That's one of the cooler things I've found around here.

SSS, thanks. I'm glad you're not mad at me for my earlier comments on your thread. You are right that things are much clearer sober. I am only starting to realize how alcohol creeps up and becomes an intricate part of your life. It gets so that everytime somebody stops over we turn on the "drinking light". I am going to slow way down and hope that it has a positive effect on W. Not ready to quit but certainly it needs to be brought under control. It really has delayed recovery no doubt. I can be an angel all week and then LB like crazy with a few drinks. You know the drill. Good luck and thanks for the insight.

yes, that's a great story, i've read it before and was not boring to hear about it again. i was looking up things on the internet to send to my H about love, etc. and came upon that one. in fact i wrote it out and put it in an envelope to send to my H but didn't because I found this site and thought it best to wait.

did you already have the IC session today? maybe it's just me but i think any kind of counseling shouldn't be expensive at least at first because it often takes several before you start "getting" what things are about or what you need to do etc. still have some frustrations about how much it costs to counsel w/SH (can't you tell?) but i feel i still need to do it for now because i want to use whatever "time" i have constructively and he is just sooooooooo good. God Bless.

RR, yes I've returned from IC (they didn't put the white jacket on me). It was insightful again. He told me love is a gift and you're working so hard at it. He told me just be more true to my feelings and stop over thinking everything. Basically just be good to myself.

SH is expensive but very good. I fully expect my W to end the sessions but I will go it alone. I can learn a lot.

WOE

the white jacket, very funny. yes, like i said i don't think i've ever come away from a counseling session w/o feeling positive in some way. keep doing what you're doing and YOU will get the greastes gift in return. prayers to you.

Rethink the whole thing about confiding in her sister and asking the sister to keep it a secret.

Bad in two ways -
1. You are asking her to be open and honest and not hide things ... pot/kettle?

2. It's better that she knows her sister or anyone else she respects/loves knows about the affair and is willing to stand up and support her marriage.

Side note - I know you are not fooling around with her sister and would not but one habit of hers that needs changing is confiding her deepest feelings to other men - set a better example by not doing the same thing.

Good MUTUAL habits like telling the truth, not hiding stuff and not getting close to opposite sex persons are a good start.

Food for thought. Anything you feel the need to keep secret from your spouse is in itself a problem.

2OFAK, very good observations. You know my timing. Here's how sister got involved after me keeping quiet for so long. On Christmas night W got out her picture book of OM and pool buddies. Started with the I just love these guys and isn't he cute and so on. After she walked away I said to her Aunt, Mother and Sister, "how would P feel if I had a photo album of R (a female friend)". Her aunt immediately responded that she couldn't believe I let W go away for weekend with Pool Team. Well I really lost it and started venting. MIL walked out of the room and told Aunt to stay out of it. It became very clear to me that these woman have known for quite some time that there is a problem and that W's behavior is wrong. So shortly after that I had a discussion with both her sister and her aunt to let them know what was going on (I left out ONS). I haven't spoken to her mother about it because she prefers to bury her head.

Only last week with a few drinks in us W mentioned in front of her sister "why are we in MC"? I let it drop as it's a private matter and I know BIL and SIL don't want to pry. But a couple days later I called her sister just to give her an update since Christmas was 4 mos. ago and there has been no progress. So I understand I cannot confide in SIL, not only because she is female but because I think it betrays the trust of the sisters. I want my W to have one safe spot and I will stay out of that relationship now. I feel SIL has the necessary information and is a friend of the marriage. I really wish they establish a stronger bond and that could be the silver lining in this mess.

OK, and what was your other point? HaHa. Yes the confiding in opposite sex is a recipe for disaster. I see that over and over and know better. I sort of lost sight of the not having secrets thing. I have been here so long I think
I've need to revisit the basic concepts. I have really been sitting on the Christmas Night story because I think it would absolutely break W to know about this. That all the woman who she respects have lost respect for her. I'm still here plugging away and thank you for visiting.

WOE

That's m'boy.

Never believe someone who says they don't want to pry - they lie about other things too probably.

As you might guess my 'normal' level of irreverence is compounded by alcohol as well.

Next time you are drinking lets handle this like grownups, we'll go to your local bar on pool night, down a bottle of Blanton's together and then calmly walk over to OM and I will hold him while you beat the ever lovin snot out of him

...like mature adults :-)

Yer doing good - quit takin crap and don't say it's OK unless it is by God OK with you.

(And call me on pool night)

2, first tonight is pool night and I'm taking son out for pizza. Starting to realize where to put my energy. Also I read your message to Kev and when I went to respond I had to go back and log on. By then I forgot where that post was. Anyway wanted to say that it was excellent. I'm getting stronger every day. Met with IC today and starting to get some clarity. I realize I can't conrol the vertical and the horizontal. That's Rod Sterling I believe. I can only take care of my stuff and can't control her reaction. Gonna stop being her drinkin buddy though. Your a real pleasure here. Thanks.

WOE