Cyn,
I think it depends on the level of FOG, among other things.

I watched my FWH fall apart many times when he thought about what we once were. Being away from me, he really missed me.

Once the FOG completely lifted, he told me that he missed me all the time, even before the A, I had withdrawn from him so much, he couldn't remember who I was.

Once he ended A, and moved back home, I thought I'd see the same thing ...but no. He is happy, happy it's over, happy he has his W back, and vows nothing will come between us again.

He thinks of you...trust me. That's why it's so important to Plan A....it makes it harder for them to recall all the bad stuff.

The hard thing right now in my case is that the OW is supposedly having his baby. I mean does he ever grieve for the child we lost? The fact that we were talking about having a baby seems so insignificant to him right now. So do my feelings just get brushed aside becauce she was able to concieve in no time and I wasn't? Is she all of a sudden the perfect everything? What was the point of even being together in the first place. Or was I just a substitute until "she" came along?

I wonder the same question, but last Wednesday out of the blue my H called me. He used a weird excuse, but he wanted to see if I was okay. This is the first time he called me without me leaving a message first. Its closing in on two months since we have separated. Only saw him once, when I went shopping and found him with the OW. I remember the look in his eyes, it was more of concern than shock. So I think they still miss us and concern for us, but I believe I have to be patient for the good memories to return to him and the OW faults to be revealed. I have only shown him respect and try not to argue with him, so he will remember the sweet girl he married. But I'm sure after fourteen years together, he has to miss me somewhat. In fact, I knew two weeks in advance that he was leaving me, and some of things I was doing, he would say I'm going to miss that about you. So Yes, they do miss us.

How about some other WS's out there giving us BS's
a little more insight. I think if we had a place to start it wouldn't be so hard. When someone has
an A I think one of the first things the BS thinks
is "Did they ever love us at all? Was our whole relationship a lie from the very beginning?" At
least that's what I think. I have so many questions and no answers. Like I said does WS ever grieve over our child? Even if they miss us
and think about us, does it even matter to them?
Or is everything always about OP? And how do you
compete?

I am not sure that I can answer the question about withdrawl very well. But I can say that I thought about TommyBear almost all the time. What would happen if he found out, why I was doing it at all. How much he would be hurt if he knew, Why was I there at all with the OM when I had such a great guy @ home waiting for me. How can you stop thinking about someone that you live your life with? It doesnt work like that(at least for me). Its not a comparison thing, its more like, being on vacation from your life, but you always know in the back of your mind where home is.

If it's not a comparison thing then what is it?
Obviously WS must think OP is better or they wouldn't give up everything for them, or would they?

Hi Cyn:

I'm a BS, but I'm going to jump in here, because this statement grabbed me by the thoat.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Obviously WS must think OP is better or they wouldn't give up everything for them, or would they? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't buy that lie. In most cases, OP is not better. They simply meet EN's that are crying out for relief.

I remember asking my FWH a question similar to this, after our most recent D-Day. He gently laughed at me and said, "Please, please remember. This was NOT about her. This had nothing to do with her. She could have been ANYONE. This was ALL about me. It was about me needing (fill-in-your WS EN here) and me making a horrible mistake in allowing OP to meet that need."

It's taken me a while to digest that truth and really accept it. But I believe it now.

One more point that backs up my theory: If OP were really "better" than the BS, all A's should end with the WS divorcing the BS and marrying the OP and living happily ever after. And we all know that's not the case.

Hope that helps.

BH03

It does in some ways. I don't know OW is 12 yrs. younger and was able to get pregnant right away.
I feel if WS wasn't happy then why on earth didn't he sit me down and say, "Hey, we need to talk, I'm not getting (whatever) and it's important to me." Instead they'd rather have an A? WS and OW are living in 'my' dream house, expecting a child. It should be "us" expecting the birth of "our" child, in "our" dream house. Does WS even grieve over the child "we" lost? I haven't heard from WS in almost 3 weeks. He's so happy with his little family. So again I ask, do they ever go into withdrawal over us, or is OP everything now? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Different people have different levels of guilt. One time I was in a hotel with OW and my W was an hour away.I kept going into the bathroom to vomit, I was so overwhelmed with guilt. I could barely think straight.

OW was a fantasy, an escape, a vacation form real life. The idea of staying with OW thorughout my life would have driven me nuts. Dumb as a brick, she was. I think sometimes EGO plays more a role in WS staying with OP than anything else. No one wants to admit they made a mistake. No one wants to think they caused so much damage and nothing good came out of it.

Even now I am guilty of this. I know for a fact that my OW is a trouble making *****. But I still try to justify her behaavior and A. It's a sickness. It's an addiction. If WS doesn't come home, they are too weak for you to want anymore anyway. Survival of the fittest. You deserve someone stronger and better. If WS comes home, then the strength is there that you deserve.

It does in some ways. I don't know OW is 12 yrs. younger and was able to get pregnant right away.
I feel if WS wasn't happy then why on earth didn't he sit me down and say, "Hey, we need to talk, I'm not getting (whatever) and it's important to me." Instead they'd rather have an A? WS and OW are living in 'my' dream house, expecting a child. It should be "us" expecting the birth of "our" child, in "our" dream house. Does WS even grieve over the child "we" lost? I haven't heard from WS in almost 3 weeks. He's so happy with his little family. So again I ask, do they ever go into withdrawal over us, or is OP everything now? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

How can they go through withdrawal without wondering if they have lost you because of their actions? (A drug addict does not go through withdrawal until they no longer have the drug.)

As long as your WS knows that you are still hanging around in the backround and still love them and will still take them back whenever they choose,then they will have no withdrawal.

Most people do not change until put into a crisis. If you want to find out whether they will go through withdrawal, you first must let them wonder and think that they have pushed you too far, and that they may have lost you for good.

Until people recognize how important standing up and showing confidence and self respect by showing the WS by your actions that you WILL NOT SHARE, and if they want the OP, then by all means, it would be best if we separate, because love must be EXCLUSIVE and love must be FREE. So you can Plan A and Plan B until you are blue in the face, but it will always boil down to the simple fact of demonstrating self respect and confidence and zero pursuit of them. And letting them think and wonder if you have LET GO. That is when you have your BEST chance to have them come back into the relationship, and the best chance if they do come back, to really make it work.

When you come to that point of confidence and self respect, then you will see the WS go through withdrawal over YOU.... and not before.

Sorry, I posted the same thing twice. Will they "ever" admit they were wrong to themselves much less to us. Thanks Whiteknight it helps to get a WS's opinion. Could it be he's too ashamed to do something about it? What about the child issue. That really bothers me.

You just can't stop loving them. I thought Plan A was about just that. You let them know how you feel and are taking responsibility for your part in the A. Plan B is so very hard. I'm in it for the second time. I do realize OP is like a drug. But don't drug addicts have at least one time or another where they know what the drug is doing but yet feel powerless. They can miss what they lost and still don't know what to do. How come "we" are not like the drug but OP is?

I'm asking myself the same questions that you are.

I think I can remember when my WS started having the A. One day he was sick, I was asking, "Is it your "Head", "Stomach" on down the line. Everything was no, he said he couldn't explain it. It was the furtherest thing on my mind that it could be a guilty conscience.

He told me the reason he was leaving is that he couldn't bear looking at the me because everytime he sees me he sees the hurt he cause. He also said if I didn't find out about the A, he would have stayed with me and keep the A on the side. The OW also knew this that is why she told her H, so my WS would have to tell me. OWH is a client of mine, so my WS was afraid when he found out he would tell me about the A.

Somedays I wish I was never was told about the A, at least he would still be home with me. He told me he wanted to protect me from the A.

I know he still loves me, even though he is now with her. I feel like a joke or something that can be tossed aside without thinking about my feelings.

Being with OW is an escape. I am a responsibility. Right now I believe he doesn't want to face what a horrible and devasting thing he has done to me. Thats why he only telephones me and doesn't want to physically see me. It is much easier for him to be with the OW.

The OW is not better person. She will never have your H trust completely. What I have learned, which is hard, work on yourself, make yourself a better person. This will make the situation more attractive to him to return home. We can not control his or the OW situation.

Doesn't OP remind WS of what they have done to us? It's so easy to stay with OP instead of the BS why, because WS doesn't have to look into OP's eyes and see the pain "they" caused? The BS is the one hurting so badly and OP gets the best of both worlds. All you have to do to get ahead in this world is steal someone else's S, have a child with them and you will be happy forever. Who cares that BS is home picking up the pieces. WS chooses to have an A and then blames BS for doing so, rewriting their history together. It's like we were nothing to them and OP, dumb, stupid, whatever they may be are much more in WS's eyes. I feel like my WS thinks I am less than a bar s*** because he'd rather be with her than me. Like I've been asking do any WS's even care? I remember WS telling me, when we had talked about getting back together, that he cried over OW when they broke up. Did he ever shed any tears over me? Highly unlikely because I'm not any easy w****, and I'm not pregnant with his child! All you have to do is be married, have children you can't take care of, lie, cheat, get pregnant on purpose and steal someone else's S and you can have a happy life too!

The OP doesn't remind him of the pain they caused us, we do. That's why we always have take the high road and not let the events going on in our lives destroy us (even though it has)

I'm trying to be positive, work on myself, but I have moments. Today I have must cried for hours. First out of depression, missing him, feeling sorry for myself. Then the crying became more angry, like how could he have done this to me?, doesn't he love me?, how could he leave me for her? I get angry that she has the man I love and she gets to share the kisses, the smiles and the hugs that belongs to me. I try to tell myself, the more depress or angry I become, then she has won. For right now she has your H, don't let her have control of your feelings.

It also gets me angry that I know she is trying to get pregnant. During the A, my husband stop using a condom, saying she is on the pill. I was angry that he believe her. I just pray, now that he is aware of it, he'll go back using a condom. When I was trying to get intimate with him after the affair, he had the nerve of accusing me of trying to get pregnant.

So don't let the OW control you. Work on yourself, I know its hard, I'm struggling with so many emotions. Its a rollercoaster, but he doesn't need to see that. If we are always crying and angry, they will never return home. Would you return home to someone who is emotion wreck? Its been 5 months since I found about the A and 2 months since we separated.

Patience is the hardest part, Pray for strength, to get you through this. I know your pain, it is the most devasting pain there is. I know the anger of her having your man, because she lied, cheated and malipulated him; and wondering how in the world he could leave you for her. The anger of how dare she go after my man, she had no right. How could someone be so cruel?

Have faith.

It's hard to have faith when this w**** is living my life. Having the baby I always wanted and loving my man, living in my dream house. Then I have to hear how wonderful "she" is. Like I was the scum of the earth and good thing she came along because I don't know how WS survived without her. Do WS "ever" think of us? Or now that they are with OW we don't exist. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

If we remind WS of the affair how come OP doesn't? It seems like a strange thing. If WS is living with the OP and still calling (even when they really don't have a reason to), is that a positive sign they do indeed miss us? In some ways we go into withdrawal over BS's, especially when we truly love them, but if they don't over us does it mean they never loved us, or don't they care?

One day I may have this thing about WS's withdrawal figured out but I doubt it. What a high price to pay for not being perfect. They go into withdrawal over OP. Yeah, ok whatever. In the fog. When the fog lifts I can't wait for the reasons. I know I miss WS. Wonder if he misses me.

While WS was in the hospital recovering from his car accident he asked me to stay with him. While I was there he called OW, told her he loved her. I don't know that he knew I heard this. Still in the fog? Said he was gald I came but acted like he cared more about her, or so it seemed. Maybe I'm just not seeing anything positive. Will it matter at all that I was there? He said, "I never thought you'd be the one who'd be here." Well, where else would I be? I guess withdrawal still hasn't taken place. Will it ever?