Hi 2OAK,

You sound like the poster here who expresses the most closely what I'm really thinking (but am afraid to post with as much fancy talk as you use and pull out the big bad 2 X 4's LOL)

I think in some ways I maybe think more like a man might? (I simply adore math and logic while my WH is more apt to just do whatever he feels like doing without weighing the pros and cons) I make the same mistakes the BH's do with trying to reason with the WS and talk some sense into them...

Anyway, this will sound weird but I'm sort of hoping you didn't have just one affair. I think I read that it took you a while to listen to and follow the advice here. But you seem to have REALLY gotten it at some point and now are giving some of the best advice (IMO).

My husband used to smoke and although he did manage to quit several times, sometimes for up to a year, he would always start back again. And it was just trying one cigarette that did it every time. He would always try to hide the fact that he had started again. I guess he believed he could handle it and could maybe quit again without anyone knowing he had started again? Anyway, that never worked either and pretty soon he'd be back to a pack or two per day and with no way to hide it. I think it's important for posters here to realize they can NOT 'handle it' AND that they can NOT hide it and quit on their own without the BS ever finding out.

Eventually my husband was able to quit smoking for good (almost 7 years now). AND he has become one of the most anti-smoking persons I know! This never happened with all the other times he quit. All the other affairs he had eventually ended (some were just one night stands on business trips). BUT he never really gained any knowledge about affairs or did everything necessary for full marital recovery and to prevent future affairs. I not only want my husband's current affair to end, I want him to be as pro-recovery and anti-affair as you are! 2X4's and all! I want him to be as anti-affair as he is anti-smoking.

Were you a serial adulterer? How did you quit for good? And most importantly, how did you become such a strong advocate for MB principles?
I wish you could talk to my WH and whack him with some 2X4's LOL

Also, he used a nicotine patch when he finally quit smoking for good. I tried telling him he will probably need an anti-depressant to get through withdrawal but he resists doing what would really make withdrawal work whenever he and OW break up (FREQUENTLY).

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Thanks for the kind words.

Well this is weird answer but it's coming from me so that is no shock. Let's get right down to the question - was i a serial cheat? Yes, but I got caught the first time out so I guess you could say i was not terrribly good at it.

Why serial? Because I'm pretty sure there would have been a second, third, fourth if something hadn't really snapped and made me want to fix it.

I've always had mixed feelings on the addiction analogy but it does hold up pretty well. I gave up affairs cold turkey - an affair isn't the screwin around part it is allowing yourself into a situation where it is possible.

As to the rest? I come back for a couple reasons. Some of which are bad ones as MB really depresses me sometimes. I figure there are a couple WS's who want to do right but are not sure what to do and some BS's who might be able to move forward more easily if they can get their head around what the WS was thinking. In all honesty at this point I don't have the patience for unrepentant WS's - they just annoy the crap out of me and I'm just a stranger yelling in their ear.

When i got here I was a mess but I was very aware that I'd done something very wrong and was terrified. I needed help with two things - not blaming BS for it and figuring out what was really broke so I could change it.

As you might guess I got a good dose of BS foot to [censored] syndrome with the first point but once i got that down they handed me a plan - first, no contact.
Next, start working on better habits and boundaries and honesty and openness.

...that was trauma center stuff - treating the symptoms but not fixing the illness.

Fixing the illness was about figuring out what motivates me, where my perceptions of reality don't mesh with the actual reality, why wasn't I resolving problems instead of withdrawing?

Here's the thing - since i am always using analogies to express these things :-)

There are two approaches a WS can take in recovery and it's a lot like the guy who walks into the ER with a nail through his foot.

Yes you take something for the pain, you get a tetanus shot, you take an antibiotic... all wise things.

...but if you go home at that point without one other little step you are going to be back in the ER because you did not take the freakin nail out of your foot!

To your other question the reason I like Harley's stuff is because frankly I am convinced that a lot of the 'theory' out there is about as useful as calling Miss Cleo. Harley's stuff works because it's foundations are based on solid, concrete and easily understood principles. Those principles are basically the same marital principles in most major religions and they have a few thousand years of demonstrated success. They are also laid out in a way a 6 year old can comprehend, you only have to be motivated to use them, smart is optional.
Recovery is a misnomer - no such thing because recovering what you had would not be worth the effort - keeping what was good, fixing what went wrong (and usually it is small, fixable stuff that got out of control) can and does often result in something new that is better than where you started is the key. So now my interst is in what makes for a healthy relationship? What screws'm up? Harley's stuff is good in both those areas. I would venture to say that every couple here who is on the verge of a divorce if they were both willing to invest three months (not a long time when you consider that growing a decent lawn takes 3 months) in working on the marriage according to the principles her on this site would not have any interest in divorce in 90 days and would be in better marital shape than they'd ever been in.

..an ugly divorce takes a year to complete and several to get over, fixin the damned thing takes a lot less time and effort.

Why do i so despise affairs?
Infidelity took something from me - actually I gave it away because it was my choice. I will always know what i did, I will always have to live with it. I'm aware that I can't dwell on it and i have done pretty well forgiving myself for it but nonetheless i won't ever be able to forget it. That sucks.

It ain't easy but it's simple - I figured out that I'm the only one who can choose whether I'm going to be happy, miserable or treading water. I'm not that bright but of the three happy sounds best.

"I've always had mixed feelings on the addiction analogy but it does hold up pretty well. I gave up affairs cold turkey - an affair isn't the screwin around part it is allowing yourself into a situation where it is possible."

exactly..and that's the reason married people should never develop friendships with members of the opposite sex. I am sort of dealing with this right now though it isn't my H's doing.. my next door neighbor has never spoken to me, but every once in a while she calls my H over to the fence to ask him something (or whatever) most recently she asked him what she should do about another neighbors dog. She believed that the dog was being abused. He told her to call the cops and that's what she did. Here is MY problem with that, WHY did she ask MY husband? Why didn't she ask HER husband? Or just figure it out on her own! It's not difficult! Anyway, the other night as we pulled into the driveway I was talking to him about it (I know she leaves her windows open and was hoping she could hear me) I said "I don't trust her and I don't want you to talk to her. If she needs to know what to do about the neighborhood dogs she can ask her OWN husband" He said "OK I don't want to talk to her anyway"

Was I out of line?