Well Plan B is not going so well. It is just one thing right after another anymore. I am really trying here. My lighthouse light is getting dimmer by the moment. You know after our discussion on last wed. I thought that WH was coming out a little bit. Everyday I am more confused and I am sure that he is also. Yesterday we kind of had a blow out. I got a little mad about the disrespect he has been showing me as far as our Son goes. I wrote him a letter after leaving several messages on his cell asking him if he was coming to get S and I never got a reply. Yesterday morning I got in my truck to take my son to my mothers and there was a message on my cell and he said he was sorry that he didn't get back with me sooner and that because he was so inconsiderate he would take our son this weekend and let me go to the dinner because he waited until the last minute to let me know. I thought that was very nice of him and he was pleasant. Unfortunately I had already left the letter for him at my moms house before I got the message. I wrote to him that his disrespect and inconsideration towards our son was not helping the relationship at all with him. I went on to tell him that he wasn't spending enough time with him and so on. I asked him what he wanted to do about certain things with the house that needed to be done. I left for a while and he came here with son. When I got home and nothing was answered about simple questions I got angry. I called his cell phone and he answered and we had it out. I told him I got his message and thanked him for it. Then I asked why he didn't have the consideration to tell me he was leaving out of town? He said I thought you would get mad. I said what would I get mad about? I don't care what you do. He said I don't know just me taking off like that. I said well I am going to tell you here and now, I am not stalking you and I don't pay any attention to what you do, I didn't even know you were gone until your mom told me and you were already on your way home. Why would he care if I was mad? I don't understand why he would care. Then we talked about DS and he wants to take him an extra day now. And then today the furnace guy came and said we needed a liner in our chimney so I left him a message on his cell because I knew he wouldn't answer it. He immediately called me back from work saying he would do whatever I needed him to do to fix it. I am so confused. I just don't understand. Yesterday I asked him who was going to mow the lawn and get the air conditioners in and stuff like that. I have had two back surgeries. He didn't answer me so I said do you care if someone else comes and does that stuff? He still didn't answer me. I got mad, and I said do you care if someone comes and spends the night with me on a weekend when you have our son. He went off on me saying that he pays the bills and that no one is going to spend the night here and if they were then they could pay the bills. He realizes that he left and all but that wasn't the way it was going to work and he got really mad. I laughed to myself, good for him but not for me. I just simply told him that these were things that we needed to talk about and that he didn't have to get so mad, it didn't happen I was just asking how he felt about someone else helping me out and stuff. WHeeew this is a long vent isn't it. So today when he called he asked me if I was going to be around on Sat. because he wants to come and look at the chimney and my truck. I don't understand anymore what I am supposed to do. Stuff has to get done, do I let him do it? It isn't protecting me by him doing it. I don't know if he is even with OW anymore. No clue. Help!!!!

HINY

<small>[ April 29, 2004, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: HopefulinNY ]</small>

Here comes the boot to the HINY… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well Plan B is not going so well.
And that is your fault. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

For someone who is supposed to be having VERY limited contact with their husband, you are doing a pretty good job of maintaining SOME type of contact..
see the following...
You know after our discussion on last wed.

Yesterday we kind of had a blow out.
I got a little mad about the disrespect he has been showing me as far as our Son goes.

I wrote him a letter after leaving several messages on his cell

I wrote to him that his disrespect and inconsideration towards our son was not helping the relationship at all with him. I went on to tell him that he wasn't spending enough time with him and so on. I asked him what he wanted to do about certain things with the house that needed to be done.

I called his cell phone and he answered and we had it out.

And then today the furnace guy came and said we needed a liner in our chimney so I left him a message on his cell

He immediately called me back from work saying

Yesterday I asked him who was going to mow the lawn and get the air conditioners in and stuff like that.

So today when he called he asked me
Okay, so in Plan B (no contact), you now talk more than when he was home, correct?
Some of the stuff you said is simply trying to push his buttons and get a response.
If you MUST communicate, keep it short and to the point. If it even LOOKS like it is going off the subject, or you are going to get irate, simply tell him you must go now.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES are you to “have it out” or “go off on him” or tell him how he is disrespectful and damaging his relationship with his kids, etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I said do you care if someone comes and spends the night with me on a weekend when you have our son.
Why would you say this? To try & get him going of course.
If you don’t want to do Marriage Builders principles, that is your prerogative of course.
If you choose to do them, you should try & do them as best as possible (and then try harder)! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ April 22, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

NY, haven't heard from you for a while. I am sorry that you have to go through this. Lot of love and hugs for you.

CA's advice is right. Can you just hire someone to do all those things and just hand him the bill. In my case, I will just pay it myself. I will see what happen after the MB weekend, if he still does not turn around, i will go Plan B. I know how important NC is. Please tie up your seat belt and don't fall out of the wagon. love you, my sister.

Chris,

Okay let me remove the boot from my HINY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ! Thanks. It is so easy to get wrapped up in this crap it is unbelieveable. You are right! I was pissed because he was disrespectful and I did push his buttons. Not answering me is the same thing he has done for the last 10 years so I should be used to it. I don't know what I am doing, but I am doing a lousy job of Plan B. I am definately going to try a lot harder now. I am going to plan B my [censored] off. Here is your boot back! I can always count on you.

L&H

Hang in there as you can see it isn't always easy.

HINY

Hold on, hold on, repair the damage you have done with the LB's. Time to have a very calm and RATIONAL talk with H and profess your love to him (in person?)...tell him all the GOOD things he has done in your M. Explain to him your behavior lately (and in the past) has been wrong, wrong, wrong. Explain to him what you are trying to change. Absolutely NO LB's, even if he does...
(humble, humble, humble)

Then tell him why you have been trying to Plan B, it is because you love him, and want to preserve the love you have for him. Tell him you will want to take care of these things for yourself from now on.

Ask him where he is at. D? OW?

Tell him what you need for the M to get back on track.

Give him hugs and kisses and tell him you will wait, but won't wait forever.

Apologize for the behavior.

Find a go-between you both can use.

Let his last memory of you be a good one. Will you need a few more days in Plan A to do this?

Then Plan B with NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER!!

Thanks SMIH,

I don't know if I will get a chance to do all of that. But if I do I will. I have given him the Plan B letter and I try not to have contact with him. Only through mail or voice mail. But I may have to have him come tomorrow morning at 7:30 because no one else wants to get up that early to watch DS and I have class. If he comes I will maybe talk to him about this stuff. He is so grouchy in the morning. And I am so ready to just throw in the towel and file separation anymore. One person can only take so much and give so much. I will definately try to take back the LB's and give him a kiss tell him I love him and that I am here for him. It does make me sick to think of it that way though. Thanks for the ongoing support. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HINY

SMIH

I haven't posted in a while, but I am glad that I took your advice and tried to make up for the things that I said and did. I am in a semi-plan B right now. If there is such a thing. Sun. when he came to drop Son off things went really really well. He was himself for the first time in a long time. No fog at all. He cried a lot and he is fence sitting for sure, leaning my way. Very emotional, I am going to try to help him get some professional help. I think I did the right thing. If it doesn't help then back to Plan B total darkness. Right now we need to get him some help for his depression, which is surely running his life right now. I don't think it has much to do with OW anymore. A lot of it is how he see's himself, which right now is not good. He was very caring of my feelings, very appologetic and loving while he was here. I am hoping he is starting to see I am the lighthouse now. I will keep you posted.

HINY

HINY what are you doing? No I'm not going to give you a 2x4 Chris did that already. Plan B is not going well huh, all the problems that you have with the house truck and such can you take care of them yourself? i.e. have someone else fix that stuff for you. You don't have to ask for your H permission to do these things. You are a capeable person, if your H get's mad because you took care of it yourself and it cost money too bad, your H doesn't live there so the responseabilities are yours not his. If he calls and complains don't answer the message and just delete it, sends an email about it delete it. It's just that easy. Well got to go time to get on my hands and knees and scrub the kitchen floor. Hang in there HINY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi Tinman,

I wish it were that easy for me. I am a SAHM waiting for SSD to come through. He has agreed to pay all the bill and do the house stuff and my truck until it comes where we would then make a total split, like a separation or divorce. Because of my back I am limited as to what I can do. I certainly can't do my own truck, and he is the one with the money. So I have to ask him what he is willing to pay for or not pay for. So far he has been willing to pay the house bills for me and the kids and that is it. He gives me money for groceries and gas, but not for home repairs. It is hard to explain, and hard for others to understand. Until I am financially on my own my attorney says just be nice and smile a lot. So that is what I do for now. He is coming out of the fog now and seeing what he has lost. In fact I heard last night that there is trouble in paradise. I think he might have booted OW on Sun after he left here. I will find out this morning when he comes to do my brakes and shocks. Thanks for caring. Good Luck!

My floor needs scrubbing also! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HINY

Throwing in my 2 cents and I am sure to get a wack (well maybe )

PLAN B or not ,,, everyones money is different and no one persons situation is the same , so I see NO NEED for the bash about contact over FIXING issues .


EX: while my H was gone living with HO , he gave his hole pay check to me and kids .HIS name is on this house and he pays the bills period end .

He also has 17 yrs of general contracting ,, the thing is if something broke he made the decision with me if the monry is there to pay someone if not then he would / had to /wanted to be the one to fix it .
DID he have the right YES ! IT was his money .

I am a SHM as well , when i spoke with a lawyer they told me I would be an [censored] to presure him to do any agreement , if he was willing to give all the money then I should shut up !

YES I agree keep the convo solely about he issues , the so &so needs to be repaired you want to do it or should I call for repair thats it .

That should be the only thing that changes , theres PLAN B I understand that but not all our lives permit us to take that stand of total darkness .

Children and money are situations that need alterations in PLAN B ,,, UNLESS DR.STEVE plans ON making a PLAN GRANT from his own pocket then some situations require a tuning to fit the persons life .

Thats all ,, and HINY your doing good , get back on track to limit your contact and keep up the good work !

Many will tell you, and I think it's true too, there is no such thing as a modified Plan B.

But I think you can modify Plan A...which is where I think you are more at. This can be a fruitful time for you to REALLY explore the LB's and why you do them. I found my DJ's and AO were a product of my fear of losing H. I have done some deep soul searching to REALLY try to change my behavior. I think the changes you make in Plan A can carry over into your M.

And that is the key to a good Plan B, is a good Plan A. If you have shown him the best light in your lighthouse, then he will look forward to coming home.

Maybe that is what it's time for now...REALLY pour on the EN's. He is your HERO, tell him so. What are his top 3 EN's? (Or what do the OW fulfill that you know you could fulfill so much better!!!) Admiration is my H's big one, and if he feels bad about himself, that may be a biggy for him to.

I wouldn't necessarily let him come home yet, maybe set up the 'rules of engagement', dates, maybe some sleepovers when kids are away (too confusing right now), find common interests and do them...become the OW, become that excitement he sought.

You can do it...with back pain you have probably been one raw nerve for years, how have you been able to control your LB's?

3isacrowd and SMIH,

You are great! You both understood perfectly. My lawyer also told me to be nice and don't sign anything because if he is stupid enough to pay all the bills let him. He said suck it up buttercup. He said there is no way a judge is going to sign anything saying he has to pay all the bills totally, maybe half but not all. Well I a guess I am back in Plan A again.

WH came today put new brakes on my truck and shocks. I made pasta for lunch, we ate together. After lunch we had some desert in the bedroom for the first time in 3 months. I have no idea how it started or why it just did. He was very loving and caring, in a different way than before. Anyway I never thought we would have SF again, but we did. How is that for a plan A? Hmmmmmmm. I asked him what he was doing before he left for work and he said he didn't know. I asked him to go to counseling and he said he would think about it. I asked him when I was going to see his sorry [censored] again and he said this weekend. You got me, but I will do my best to not LB and to suck it up while it lasts. Thanks for you opinions I am in the same boats as you as far as money and options. I did not LB at all today. I did so good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> See that glowing smile......that only means one thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

HINY

That's great!

You've cut out the LBs, now time for the ENs to shine...sounds like SF is a big one....

About those LBs, and this is a challenge for me, how do you let H know you're unhappy about something without LBing? I held it in for along time, but I've had to learn a new way to let him know I'm not happy. POJA helps, especially when it's something we both disagree with. But it's still a challenge for me...let me know if you figure it out...

I really don't know how to let him know at this point anything at all. I just found out he spent the night at OW house and came here from there this morning. Now I feel like puking up my dinner. I have lost 50 lbs. I still have 20 to go but this isn't the way I wanted to do it. I just don't understand and there is no way for me to tell him as he doesn't understand himself either. I don't know what to say or do as to not LB in this situation. I am very hurt at this point and not sure I am going to do anything. I am not planning on seeing or talking to him again until this weekend. I just wish I understood some of it, but I don't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

HINY

HINY, I dont think any of us can understand this. I think you will have plenty of time to get over that shock of finding out he spent the night with OW then came home and ya'll had SF! That happened to me as well when my H was living out of the house. I was in denial big time though. I never had a clue she was over there every night. I was in the Fog as well.

You have 3 days now to think about your actions to come for the weekend. Try to stay calm and come here for you LB's. Listen to what he has to say and respond with as calm a voice as you can. dont work yourself up.

mom

Thanks. I am just depressed now. I probably won't say anything to him at all. I can tell you that it won't happen again though. After this weekend I am going to plan B again. I have had enough of all of it really. It has been a really long time. I called him and left a message on his cell and said I had a good time today, I missed holding you like that and I love you. I didn't know what else to say. That certainly isn't what I wanted to say, but I can't print here what I wanted to say it is too naughty.

Life is so depressing sometimes. Before he came today I lit a candle and prayed to god for some guidance, some hope, some sign of what I am supposed to do in my situation. I thought this was a sign until my friend called. I mean maybe it still is, he might not stay with her again it is hard to tell, but still depressing. Thank god for prozac!


HINY

I saw the post but ran out of time , and I see now that your already feeling the way I was going to post.

Happy for ya that ya GOT SOME (sorry ) But I know how painful that first shot is . I slept with my H also while he was out of house , I thought I was happy about it till about 3 hours later and relized it meant something.

I thought I was strong enough but NO WAY !

NOw is not the time to allow him to become a cake eater ,,, You know that already right ?

LIsten you have been so strong , when you see him keep it togther , you should express that you had a wonderful time .

But let him know the way home and thats it . No fighting , no crying OK?

You just need to tell him that You love him and could never share him with someone else .

Well I am sure you got alot on your mind . Be well

3isacrowd,

You are right! I am not going to allow him to be a cake eater. I actually called his cell and left a another message and it said "you know how I feel about you and how the kids feel about you. We are your family and we love you. I hope your not still seeing her, because if you are it will hurt me again and I can't be hurt by you anymore, I just can't take it." Of course I know he is seeing her. I don't know what their relationship consists of. After yesterday I don't think they have much SF. Yes it was nice GETTING SOME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> first time in nearly 4 months. Anyhow it was a different experience this time. It was like it was our first date or something, I was very nervous and I kept second guessing myself. I am just going to see what happens this weekend when he comes to put the slide up for our son. I will feel him out (not up) and go from their. If I feel things are okay to talk I will ask him again if he still doesn't know. Then I will hand him the plan B letter again and go dark. I did so well for so many weeks. Thanks.

HINY

What is your plan for the weekend?

When I've been unhappy with H in the past I get on my high horse and I browbeat him into apologizing, I realize now how harmful that is to my M. That doesn't mean I'm still not happy, but I'm learning how to tell him without it being an LB.

My biggest change is really exploring within myself what I'm angry about...usually there is some fear or sadness behind (fear of being alone, fear of losing him, hurt beyond recognition). After D-day I decided I was going to show him how hurt and afraid I was. I cried on his shoulder and pored my heart out to him. I let myself be vulnerable. I hadn't found this site yet and thought it was ineveitable that we would split. I was humble, humble, humble.

Write down what your feelings are...your fears and sadnesses, and then use some of those statements when you talk with WH again. These feelings are truly more honest than the anger.

That is a good idea. I wasn't really planning on doing anything much as far as our R goes. I was just going to ask him if he was still seeing OW and if he was handing him the Plan B letter again. I am only human and can't take much more. Pretty soon I will be wanting to get out of the relationship all together. When he comes I usually don't say much about us, we usually just do stuff around the house together, like lawn mowing or something to that nature. Eventually one of us starts crying when we look at the other. Sometimes it is him, he will get tears rolling down his face and I will ask him what is wrong. He will say he is sad, and then one time he told me about the two people in one body theory. How he is two different people one when here and at his moms, and another when with HW. He cries a lot when he is here it seems. Even without proding him. He is lost and confused and sitting on the fence. The problem is I am about ready to push him off her way. I am beginning to wonder if he is worth all of this pain I have gone through for him now esp after yesterday.

HINY