Well, you are doing the right thing. NC is absolutely essential if you are going to put your life back together with your W.

You have to learn to depend upon your wife for your emotional (and sexual) needs. It is as much of a learning process for your W as it is for you.

You can't do that with OW hanging around providing some support. You and your W have to learn to share *everything*, even the really bad stuff.

Is what you have with OW a fantasy? Yes...the relationship you have with OW is pretend. You don't have any problems with her--you have no kids to raise, no bills to pay, no in-laws to keep happy... In other words, it is NeverNever Land--it doesn't exist.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DT3Girls:
<strong> Thank you all for your relpy's. Today is a new day for me, and hopefully for the rest of my life. I decided this morning that I want to do what God's will for my life is. I prayed very hard this morning that he show me what I need to do. I do realize that I have to fix myself first, and I am not real sure how to do that just yet, but I am going to try and start. The first thing I know I need to do is to have NC with the OW. I will try to change that starting today. I work right across the hall from her, and we have continued to talk daily, this has been killing me. I assume this has probably been what has been keeping my wife and I from being able to start over. Don't know, just a guess. I will earnestly start and find another job asap. I have a really good job, but I have prayed about it, and hopefully the Lord will open up the doors quickly. I am not sure what other steps I need to take now, but I am willing to try. I do want to thank everyone for trying to help me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you feel weak or confused.... post here....

This won't be quick or easy to fix... but at least you have a focus that is real .... and healthy!

You da' MAN!

Pep

Thanks guys. What puzzles me most is that I have developed such a connection with the OW. Our relationship is as much emotional as physical. I know I used is instead of was, but the truth is, I still have an emotional attachment to her. I truley believed I could have lived the rest of my life with her, and a happy one. We discussed the kids, ex's, in-laws, retirement, money issues, religious issues, everything you can imagine, and we both still wanted to be with each other forever. But when it came right down to it, I could not leave my girls, and to be honest I still had feelings for me wife, not the same as with the OW but still some feelings. Now when I talk to her, everyday! it is hard to deal with the issues I need to focus on. The real question I have is that keeps haunting me is that I never have had a relationship with my wife that I developed with the OW, even after 15 yrs nothing even close. This bothers me, and makes me doubt if I can ever have that with my wife. Any suggestions?

OW was safe, no risk...

Sharing deep intimacies with a spouse involves risks. Showing your wife emotional vulnerabilities might give her a leg up on you.

It has to do with the risk of rejection....

and bad habits of faulty comminication patterns at home.

Pep

Pep, I know for certain that I have never been as close to my wife as I have been with the OW. I mean emotionally and from the heart. What puzzles me is that I am not sure I can have that type of closeness with my wife, even when she try's right now...it's as if I do not want her to try, I do not feel anything...why is this? This worry's me, and makes me think that my wife and I should have never been married, and it would be a mistake to continue our marriage. I don't like thoughts like those, but they are real thoughts! How do I quit thinking like that, and how do I feel for my wife the way I would like to?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What puzzles me is that I am not sure I can have that type of closeness with my wife, even when she try's right now...it's as if I do not want her to try, I do not feel anything...why is this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have good insights into yourself. What you are experiencing is (I get sick of writing/reading this but it's true) very normal. You are in withdrawal from OW and not open to being intimate with your W right now.

Trust that you are doing the right thing. Any WS on here will tell you they felt the EXACT same way - closer to OP, didn't think they could ever have that with their spouse, thought they shouldn't have ever married. It's part of the "addiction" to OP. Hang in there, the withdrawal will get better and you will feel more and more close to your W.

Thank you turtlehead:

I hope you are right because the feelings I am having right now, are driving me crazy. I want so much to have an intiment close relationship with my wife, but for some reason I can't seem to get there right now. Last night my wife got a little discourged I know because she asked me again if I wanted to seperate. She feels that I am not really wanting to make our marriage work, and I am still torn between her and the OW. The fact is, this is true(I haven't told her that) but what I really want is a close intiment relationship with my wife. Why can't I get there???

Hi DT3Girls,

Right now it is impossible to be as close to your W as you think you are with OW. It is going to take lots of TIME. You didn't get close with OW overnight, did you? It took time. Time to get to know her, to see what kind of person she was, her likes, dislikes etc. Do you really KNOW your wife? Do you know what she likes, dislikes, what she smells like, tastes like, what makes her happy, what her dreams are, things that she never dare think she could tell you? THIS is what will bring you close to your wife. It is hard to get to know her right now because she is in the most devastating pain. And I mean physical pain, DT3girls. The kind of pain that rips your heart out and shreds it in a million pieces, makes you vomit until there is nothing left to vomit, clouds your brain so that you can bearly function in every day life and she STILL has to take care of those three girls and there is NO lifeline for her - NONE!

Right now, you are NOT gonna have that intimate, fun, close relationship with her; it is not possible and you know that. Right now, your wife is bearly functioning, hanging on. Only wants you decide that you REALLY want to make this work with her, stop contact with OW, is it going to get any better for either one of you. It's gonna be hell for a while, but other's have made it thru and come out better for it and you will probably, too. But you gotta wanna do it.

One thing, you will never have the kind of relationship with your wife that you had with OW. They are two totally different people and it is unreasonable to expect your wife to fulfill your needs in the exact way the OW did. She can't because she is NOT OW. But your wife can give something much more, something deeper and something so fulfilling that nobody will ever be able to reach in your life - true intimacy. This is when YOU really open yourself to her and let her see the REAL you, with all your faults and shortcomings, and you will see that she accepts you and loves you for it.

This is what you have to look forward to...

Kati

Thank you Kati: I hope you all are right. You know, sometimes it seems so dang easy to just say the heck with it, and go to OW and make a new life with her. I am not saying I am doing that, it just seems like the thing to do sometimes. I didn't say the right thing to do. I just get so frustrated sometimes, it seems as if I have been struggeling with my marriage forever. I truly love my daughters, and they are the reason I have been there for years, but now I want more, I want a life partner and preferably that would be my wife.

Of course you want a life partner. Marriage shouldn't just be about the kids, even though they are a very big part of your relationship. They are little human beings that were created by the two of you and you have 3 of them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> All beautiful ones. I don't have any children and I would give a lot to call three beautiful girls my daughters. Your girls need you; they need their Mom AND their Dad; they need protection. Your responsibility is to YOUR three girls first, DT3girls. They are the life that YOU created. It's okay to care about the OW's children, but they are NOT your first responsibility.

Don't hope that we are all right. I think you already know what is right, otherwise you wouldn't even be here. It is hard to make this first step, especially knowing that it is not going to be easy at all. It sounds so much easier to leave it all behind and start anew, but you really wouldn't start anew, would you?

You know, maybe if you'd met OW a long time ago before you met your wife or before she met her H, then you may have had a great life. I believe that there are many compatible people for us out there. There is not just ONE soulmate. And if you really open up to someone and you let them in your life and your heart, then it is not all that hard to get close. Unfortunately, life throws up obstacles - jobs, mortgages, kids, illnesses, death... and sometimes this can take a heavy toll on a relationship. How can we feel content again? It is so easy to loose this love feeling under all of this baggage and it is so hard to try to dig it out again.

Have you ever sat down with your wife and told her all of those things that you are sharing with us here? All of your dreams and hopes? Stuff that has nothing to do with the kids, the house etc?

Kati

I'm sorry, but it is time for a little reality therapy:

(A) Every WS thinks OW is the "dream" woman, someone just right for him/her. And, every WS also thinks, "You (meaning the rest of the world) doesn't understand the feeling I have for OW." BS. (And I am not referring to a spouse.)

(B) OW has huge emotional problems that you aren't seeing. What kind of woman would get involved with a married man with children? Do you think a stable, confident and intelligent woman would get involved with a married man? The answer: NO.

(C) You are dreaming up a love story straight from the movies about OW. You aren't Humphrey Bogart and she ain't Lauren Bacal.

(D) You say you love your kid? The most important one thing a man can do for his child is to love his child's mother.

(E) You say you have been struggling with your marriage forever. (I suspect you resent that she got pregnant. Get over it.) Everyone struggles with their M. They don't make a perfect M.

(F) You say you still love your W. Throwing that away on a crap shoot with OW is ridiculous.

(G) The statistics show that the likelihood of you having a successful M with OW are almost impossible. Why? You and her are living in an artificial world, and thus your reactions to her are also artificial.

Thank you Kati and Jimmy Mac for your respones. I really do understand what both of you are saying, but let me ask you this, plese don't get upset or mad at me for asking questions. Why wouldn't a marriage between the OW and myself work? I can apply what I have learned through MB, HNHN, and everything I have learned for 15 years, what to do, and what not to do. She as well has this information and learned a great deal from her first marriage. The odds really arent much worse than if we had married young, and not knowing much.Am I right? and, if this person truly is my soulmate, how could it not work??? Am I really that confused??

Why wouldn't a marriage between the OW and myself work?

Two people who demonstrate an a DISREGARD for marriage vows .... take their new marriage vows with a fellow cheater ... KNOWING their partner has no respect for vows .... makes this a risky relationship.

What she did with you (cheat) she'll do to you .... if she wants to, because she has proven she doesn't respect marriage.

You both have no reason to trust each other based on your past.

I can apply what I have learned through MB, HNHN, and everything I have learned for 15 years, what to do, and what not to do.

You haven't applied anything to your current marriage. All words no action.

She as well has this information and learned a great deal from her first marriage.

She did not learn a respect for marriage or vows, did she?

The odds really arent much worse than if we had married young, and not knowing much.Am I right?

No, you are statistically incorrect. Second marriages have a higher rate of divorce, especially when the 2nd spousr is a former affair partner.

Wouldn't your girls puke knowing their new "step mother" is the cheating woman who broke up their home? Do you really imagine they would just slide into your "new marriage" and be oh so happy to meet the woman who broke up their home and broke their mother's heart?

and, if this person truly is my soulmate, how could it not work??? Am I really that confused??

By soulmate, you must mean a person who ignores the sanctity of marriage, breaks up homes and disregards any broken hearts left behind.

How many affairs have you had?

Can you ask your wife to post on marriagebuilders?

Pep

I know Pep that you don't think this is different, but I truley believe it is. I know all the statistics, but the marriage that I have had for 15yrs hasn't worked either, what makes me think it will work now? I want it to, but I have wanted it to for 15years, and I have tried to make it special, and make it the type of relationship I have longed for, but it just hasn't been there. How do you make yourself be in love with someone?? Help me here.

There are two separate and different questions:

QUESTION 1: Is the OW your "one true love"?
ANSWER: No. I know it is hard to believe when you are head over heels in lust with OW, but she isn't.

QUESTION 2: Is W the one for me?
ANSWER: I don't know. But, as long as you messing around with OW, you will never be able find out.

Here is an over simplified explanation: A person has a set of needs. In a good M, H and W fulfill each others needs. There are a bunch of them...in your situation, your W is meeting most of your needs, and OW is meeting the rest of those needs. (What needs is your W meeting? Providing a home and taking care of your D...make a list of what she does for you--you might be surprised. And that doesn't get into how she relates to your family and how you relate to hers--remember, you will lose ALL relations with her family after the D. Plus, your daughter may never forgive you.)

So, you will never be able to find out if W can meet all of your needs while you depend on OW to meet any of them. In fact, I doubt you even know what those needs are. (You simply sound too intelligent to be a person whose main need is to f****d by a new women every couple of years.)

The needs your W is meeting are probably much more important than what OW is meeting...like being a M to your child, giving you a stable home, etc. But you are so enamored with OW that you can't see it. And, without W meeting those needs, you would be miserable in a few months. To be fair, you probably sense this already since you can't pull the trigger on a divorce.

Why won't your M to OW work out? Well, again, you don't enough about her...but I can tell you that gets involved with a married man with a kid is not a jewel--she is a person with huge emotional issues. Think about this--would a normal person insert themselves in a traumatic, emotionally draining experience which, if you do leave W, would last for years and leave you with 50% of your income for years?

The reason you went out with OW is because you have trouble identifying and getting what you need in relationship. (If you did, you would have already either (1) had W meeting those needs or (2) divorced her.) So, until you fix that problem, you will never have a successful M. That problem is with YOU, not with OW or W. YOU HAVE TO IMPROVE YOUR ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE YOUR NEEDS.

You have to understand this: You don't real know OW. She doesn't really know you, either. You are on your best behavior around her, and she is with you.

I have tried to make it special, and make it the type of relationship I have longed for, but it just hasn't been there.

How many affairs have you had?

marriage is not some entity that exists outside of our actions...

marriage is the exact creation of our actions....

the human brain is great at rationalizing to meet and justify our actions....

The reality of your actions are a lot different though from the universe that you have created in your mind between you and the OW>..

First basic principle of an affair...one of the core ingredients...
is redefining,
re-writing,
and de-valueng...the role of the betrayed spouse,,,
the actions of the betrayed spouse...
even the soul of the betrayed spouse...

because to create and have such magic between the spouse and OP>.. it must be do to what is lacking in the spouse and the wayward spouses marriage....all along..for surely this could not happen any other way...right??

first action you took in your affair...
was devalueing your wife...the one person on this universe you vowed to cherish...

It is those base unconcious actions that gives your brain permission to continue down the path of betrayal...with ability to label it as something "different' or "special"...

First you convince yourself...
then all you have to do is convince your other woman....
and pooof!!!

instant soul-mates...

so now that you two have effectively made your wife the enemy...the slippery slope just keeps building...

cause we all know about all that great sex...
between you and the other woman...except that it wasn't some true deep God driven connection...
it was more akin to a competition with your spouse...

scrambling to prove yourself right...you elevate easy feel good actions into some earth shattering encounter.....

because it never really was just you two...it was also your wife present in each physical encouter...

another one upping her....by the other woman...and BELIEVE me...OP are well aware of what they perceive the spouse lacks or lacked in that department....


sex is a great tool to assist in the creation of the illusion...

OW must really love you because she does this or that sexually...

so that each encounter feeds off the other
but all it is a shallow reflection of true intimacy...because in bed the OW may ACT lovingly...and yet the actions are anything but lovingly...for the price of each encounter is the selling of everyones self worth....
innocently your wifes...

but again our brains sure can justify and rationalize and elevate it all...

and now we are at the point of nearly convincing ourselves we can be happy...

And even more grotesque in this fantasy creation is the expectation that the children, the betrayed spouse, inlaws and parents...
surely only want your happiness in this life...and everyone should be happy for the new couple....

for surely once they see how happy you are....
it would have to be..

you have taken all of your energy...

admit to the amount of time you actively pursue in thinking of your OW....day night time of day minute by minute....and know that each one of those is something you have stolen from your wife....and begin to see that what you believe just exists....

IT exists only because it is exactly what you yourself create it to be...

all stolen and taken from one...and given to another......
this is all of your creation...
the emptiness of your marriage is a direct creation of your actions...
the "wonder" of your affair is a direct creation of your actions....

nothing good ever comes from devaluing and taking from one....and placing it on another...

all those good feelings from the OW>..are just shadows of what is really valuable in this universe....

it's very sad...when we expend all this energy to convince ourselves that it is anything but that...

ARK

The other thing that fits so neatly into the whole soul mate mindset...
and perfect for eachother...

is the "belief"...that if as a man (person) is willing to "risk" so much just for that other person...that must mean it's true love...or that its value is much greater than any other relationship....especially the old one with the wife...

and the OW (other person) readily buys into this theory as well...feeds their ego magnificantly .if that married man...with so much to lose...is choosing ME...(little ole me) over his wife and children...then she (they) MUST be so special as well...

It all plays so well in to the rationalizing and the nature of what an affair is...
grossly blown out of proportion....
grossly inflated to have so much more meaning and value ...than any other relationship...

but that's just nothing more than self inflicted inflation to again justify and rationalize...

the reality is that your actions put your children...the one beings on this planet that you brought here and should be protecting...
yet now they need protection from you....

at great risk...
to becoming strangers to you...

do you think they will enjoy visiting dad in his new home and life with OW...
becoming strangers in their own dads life...

do you think they will enjoy spending their lives splitting holidays...

knowing dad chose a stranger over them...

your fantasy is that they will..
the reality is so far from that it is chilling...

ark

silence is deafening....


oooops thought this was the three word post.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ARK

I always feel ashamed that I was a WS...but sometimes, like after reading this thread, I feel downright sick to my stomach about being a former WS. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Even after 10 years, to remember that I actually said some of the very things DT3 is saying now, well...it just makes me ashamed all over again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It amazed me how fast my feelings of "soulmate love" for the OM turned to shame and embarassment.

Both H and I had affairs, and we had some very, very rough times to get through, but we only got thru them with effort, determination, and commitment. It was a decision. Now, not a day goes by that I don't thank God for the awesome marriage we have.

Before recovery could happen, we had to establish hard & fast boundaries for ourselves. Those included NO CONTACT with any of the OP. Ever. No excuses.

Our healed relationship not a fluke or "luck." We both had to learn to put God first, then try to be the absolute BEST spouse we could be. Believe me, THAT PLAN WORKS! We make an effort to openly communicate every day. We treat each other with respect and honor. We SHOW our love.

<sigh> I really don't think this helps new WS's. I dunno.

Lori