Well, after all this time insisting that I'd never do plan B, I think that's what I'm doing. (later edit: no, it's not. Coach recommends something more like plan A, short time apart 2 stop LBs, then move back home soon).

I don't want 2 go in2 details, only 2 say that, since my W got home last weekend from her field trip that included a visit 2 RM's workplace, the tension between us has been increasing steadily. And even though she started working with a new IC at Kaiser on Thursday (and had promised 2 talk 2 Penny, who I'm coaching with), she was adamant that NC with RM was not going 2 be discussed anytime soon. I don't know if that was a conclusion she reached with her IC, but it sure seemed like it. some of the things she said about the visit (which she didn't have 2 tell me) made me realize that he's probably a reasonable counselor, but so was my "measured honesty" IC from 2 years ago.

Anyway, I moved out, we LB'd each other a bit, but I left telling her I love her very much and want things 2 work out.

I have 2 go home for a meeting with our lawyer about the lawsuit 2morrow, so I will probably give her my plan B letter after that.

I've got a place 2 stay, that I lined up per Penny's recommendation a few weeks ago. It will allow me 2 live on the cheap and continue 2 support my family financially for a while. That's the way I want 2 work it, because of the complexity of our si2ation and the huge difference in the value of the house if we wait until we finish it versus sell it in as is condition. And leaving her 2 pay the bulk of the mortgage would force us 2 sell soon. I won't do that, so don't try 2 make me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm okay, folks. Just wish I never, never, never had 2 get here.

I couldn't say goodbye 2 my son because he had company. My D was out with friends, so I called her and we talked for a while. She's sad, but she understands and saw it coming for a while now.

Please think about us, okay?
-ol' 2long

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

2long:

I'm very sorry that you've had to go to Plan B. It's probably the hardest thing that I've ever done. The good side is that it was effective. Don't lose hope, and get your support network in place.

Saying a prayer for you and your family.

Hmmmmmmmm.

I'm really sorry that this step is necessary. But necesary it is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>And leaving her 2 pay the bulk of the mortgage would force us 2 sell soon. I won't do that, so don't try 2 make me!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Make her pay, if she's in the house and she wanted you to go. Period. Anything less is helping her.

I understand your position. Both of you are responsible for the mortgage. But, currently, she's more responsible for NOT recovering.

WAT

<small>[ April 24, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

I appreciate such quick replies from some of the best MB has ever had 2 offer. Thank you very much for being there.

My W didn't "want me 2 move", I did. I had made the arrangements 2 stay at a friends house where there is a spare room and where I won't have 2 pay rent. That will suffice for the "few months" term, though my friend would probably allow me 2 stay indefinitely if I needed 2.

I'm the major breadwinner in our family. Right now, my W teaches one class at a junior college, so she couldn't support herself. Letting her stay in the house gives the kids a place 2 stay, and they'll know I didn't abandon them this way. ...but your point is noted, and I will also note that Penny didn't want me 2 do it this way, either.

Our house could be worth a good 3/4Mil MORE finished than it is unfinished. I'm not the sharpest 2L in the banking shed, but I kind of think it would be financial s2pidity 2 put pressure on that would force us 2 sell our house.

I'm hopeful that we can patch things up, but with the tension rising the way it has been, I've been having a tough time performing 2 snuff at work. It's weird, and it's only been less than 3 hours, but I already feel some relief (and I've gotten some work done, 2).

but I will continue 2 welcome supporting advice from my friends.

-2long

2Long,
I have followed your story for a while and admire all that you have done to keep your marriage.

I have a bit of experience in the spouse refusing NC thing, except my H kept making promises he didn't keep. In your case, with your W openly continuing to live in denial and hurt you over and over again, I don't think you have much choice about Plan B. You sound very balanced emotionally and ready for this.

Plan B gave me relief in a lot of ways. I was still in denial that my H would do what he was doing to me, our M and our D. It took a while to get past that. I think you are already there, so Plan B will indeed be a relief and maybe even feel good--you standing up for yourself and unwilling to receive her disrespectful behavior. It has to be tough though in order to have her truly experience what life will.would be like without you.

I get the house value thing, that would be pretty tough. Hopefully she will still feel the pain of not having you meet her needs.

Take care, you are in my prayers.

anne:

I think she will. We've been doing some work on rebuilding the house ourselves. Stuff that's not fire loss related and thus not part of the settlement. I gots 2 admit, with undbridled modesty, that I'm pretty good at woodworking and other stuff. I could probably build a house from scratch if I had 2.

Of all the things my W has shown appreciation for over the past few years, it's been my ability 2 turn a dreary old room with cracked plaster and splintery floors in2 something more like what it looked like 117 years ago. I know she'll miss that.

-2long

2L,

I'm relieved to hear about your relief! You have made the best decision; hopefully you'll have a chance to talk with your son soon. Blessings, CSue

Thanks, CSue!

It is amazing how helpful it is 2 know that people think I am doing the right thing.

Now, having said that, I just responded 2 a couple of email queries from my W. She sent them 2 me AND Penny, so I decided 2 reply 2 both of them. And since I haven' t given her a plan B letter yet, and I'm meeting with her and our lawyer tomorrow, I think it was appropriate.

I find it so much easier to say what I feel in print than verbally. Like I've noted many times before, my W is much faster on her verbal feet than I am. I hope that I answered some of her questions, particularly my need 2 keep RM ON THE TABLE and dealt with RIGHT NOW, not after we've worked with counselor 2 address "our issues." I didn't ridicule her with that, and I hope it didn't sound like it even here. I agree that we've got some serious issues 2 work out, but after 27+ months since D-day, it's definitely time 2 shoot a certain elephant.

-ol' 2long

2long,

texmexgal:

Hi! whazzup?

-2long

Ya know what 2long? I'm glad you went to Plan B. I'll tell you why.....

You and I have been the poster children for not going to Plan B when necessary for US--and that comes with a huge price tag along with a huge responsibility. In my sitch, after (if) h recovers from his illness I will be going to Plan D. I'm glad you went to Plan B before your $LB was completely wiped out permanently--I don't think it would have taken many more weeks/months for that to happen. Plan B, in my opinion, is much better than Plan D without it.

This might be just the step that's needed to get to Plan MB with your wife's enthusiastic participation!

Take care 2long--be patient while doing the footwork and take good care

2long,

Sorry to hear you had to go into plan B. We all dread plan B. When i was with no plan back then...i never thought i needed to go into plan B or even consider plan D...but here i am doing plan B...i hope i need not do plan D.

2long---i am in full support of what you feel is necessary! even fixing the house first. your wife knows what she is going to have to face with reality--she doesnt care. fix it and get the extra money----unless doing this becomes painful for you. its time you protect you.(PS---we've got some lovely victorians around here----the work and detail is incredible!)

anyway---let us know what we can do to help.

Old good 2long

I don't post to you, but I read you sometimes. I think you are doing the right thing 2long. Even if it's the hardest (sometimes) for us plan to do.

It's obvious, you have been at this for "2long" and your wife didn't saw it as a sign of love, but as a weakness. Her position on NC, only shows disrespect to me, and that is too bad. She doesn't see what she might lose, and it was about time you showed her that.

That no matter how hard, you also have choices here. Please be sure to send also the plan B letter. Sometimes they don't interpret our actions as a result of all this but she might just think you got angry at her or something (it happened to me on my first plan B, when I didn't sent over the letter).

As you well know, this is not an easy step, but I think it would give you time to think over things, and also a huge dose of reality to your wife, wich she needs. Also, 2long, being at plan B is not easy, and it's harder when you are not at home. Might be easier for you since you got "company". Try to take advantadge on this too, and do some of the things you always wished to do, and somehow your wife didn't like. It will help you.

Good luck, and keep us posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey there 2long,

Good for you for taking the big step towards plan B, and preventing your lovebank from becoming completely drained. I know you need all contact with RM to cease once and forever before you can feel right about your M, and your W still doesn't get it, and so plan B is the right choice, even if it's a really hard choice to make.

I think that until this point, she's been reading your actions as "I'll stay here and love you no matter what," including no matter whether she keeps in contact with RM or not. Maybe now she'll finally see that it's actually a deal breaker for you if she wants to stay in contact with him, more of a "it's him or me" situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's obvious, you have been at this for "2long" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh matilde....this made me laugh in a groaning sort of way....it's 2 true. 'Ol 2 long is just 2 darn kind and loving for his own good. Time now to look out for 2long.

One important question for you 2long: Are you planning on working on the house during plan B? If so, how are you going to go about ensuring total NC with your W while you do so?

Jen

2long-
Good for you. I think you will find Plan B very comfortable. You can get your self-esteem back and work on your own issues. Since I've been in Plan B, my days are mostly happy.

Be sure to keep close to your kids. Try to spend time with them. I'm sure they understand why you had to move.

Whoo Hoooo - Q!!!

She sent e-mails to you & Penny!! I find that to be a very good sign. That is being very considerate of your feelings! I'm impressed that she acted so quickly; makes me think that she'll be talking with Penny Monday like you've hoped. I hope Penny gets her e-mail and responds.

Good luck at your appt this AM.

Well ol'timer, I can understand your feelings.

On one hand, you could simply keep going as things are - living through a M that you aren't finding fulfiling - or you can do something different. Sure, there are risks, but the risks are at least in your control. It's obvious that your W needs to do some major things to make you feel safe, and it's not happening.

I will suggest you ask yourself (again, probably for the 1000th time): a) are you prepared to lose your M / W - the cost of staying the same is starting to exceed the cost of losing it? b) are you starting to find your W less "attractive" (in any way)? c) are you willing to stay in a "holding pattern" for a while (do you have an idea of how long)?

Try to purge ANY and ALL expectation out of Plan B - it's all about you and protecting your feelings now. You're more than allowed to do that, and no-one - especially your W - can fault you for that.

First, though it's been less than 24 hours, and I'm going 2 see my W during the meeting with the lawyer in just over an hour, I must say I feel GREAT. I slept like a baby last night, even though the place I'm staying has an olive tree in bloom, and I'm VIOLENTLY alergic to olive trees! (thank goodness for claritin).

I haven't seen a reply from Penny yet about my W's emails, but it is the weekend. I'm supposed to call her 2morrow, but I don't know whether I should call her before she calls my W or after. Hopefully, she'll let me know.

One of the things my W asked me was whether I would want 2 work on the house this afternoon after the lawyer visit. She said "if you don't want 2, that's okay, I understand." Well, I've got some cool new stuff 2 check out at work this afternoon, so I'm going 2 go 2 work after the meeting.

I'm going 2 drop off some stuff that my W and son left in my van from the trip last week, and then I'm planning on picking up one of my telescopes and cameras 2 fiddle with in the evenings here. It's one of the best therapies I know of: I get 2 tour the universe from my backyard. My hobby was 'attacked' by my W after D-day as an 'A' I was having that 2k me away from spending time with her, but she's been urging me 2 do more of it for months now. I just haven't felt comfortable doing so. But I do now.

I'll keep working with Penny, even MC with my W, if she wants us 2 go 2 an MC at Kaiser again and will arrange it. I have no illusions, though. The fog is extraordinarily thick, obvious in her email replies 2 me. She wonders why I couldn't have just spent more time with her when she asked me 2 13 years ago, but she can't see that it will benefit her 2 go NC on RM now. I'd love 2 be able 2 2rn back the clock, but I'm fairly certain I don't have the technology, so I'm going 2 focus on the NOW. My now. It's up 2 her 2 realize she can and needs 2 deal with her now.

I realize I could end up filing for DV (or having her file) after several months of this. I'd rather not do that, but more than that I'm delighted not 2 have 2 live with contact with RM, however sporadic at the moment, underlying our every interaction all the time.

One of the things I've noticed even more as a result of this, is that it is so clear how addictive an A relationship is. Just contact 2 arrange the visit 2 weeks ago has jerked my W emotionally back in2 the fog. I saw it before she even said anything about the initial contact a month or 2 ago.

It's nice 2 be away from that.
-2long

-ol' 2long.

Hi Lilbro and all:
I've been thinking of you, and hope that the plan B coninues to give you some peace of mind and good sleep...and I hope the support from this site will lower the stress so you can continue to enjoy your work. Hope the fog clears for the W, whom we family love too.
But continue to do what you need for YOU, lilbro!
As usual, I'm grateful for all the support my little brother gets from his MB friends. I'm a little worried, though, 2long, when one of them addresses you with "Old good"--eeeyai, what does that make bigsis?
Lots of love beaming your way.
Old best bigsis