Well, I have been lurking on the recovery board but not sure I really belong there so I'm posting here.

I've been having a really difficult time with my H's A (we're 11 wks post d-day and 5.5 weeks since nc). H had shared a lot about the A...concrete details, etc but since has basically decided that there is no need to talk about it. I suppose, in a sense, I agree. I pretty much know everything I think there is to know, he's very anti-OW now, and he's here so what else is there to discuss. The problem is that now he doesn't want to talk about us. It's like now that he's realized that he loves me and he wants us to be together there is nothing else to talk about. He tells me he was wrong, he's sorry, and he knows that we are soul mates (and we'll find each other after this life and continue to be together). Well that's all find and good but it doesn't make my pain go away. Am I really supposed to just be fine now? Am I even supposed to believe him?

There is no where near the 15 hours spent togeher that this site recommends. Our top needs are still not being met (I think I'm doing pretty well with #2 and #3 for him but will admit that #1 (SF) has lacked...I've improved but I still have some work to do). If I hadn't known about the A I'd say our life is going along as it normally did...but isn't that a problem? Aren't we suppose to address the problems that led him to the A in the first place?

OW contacted my H a few weeks back. Long story short he told her to leave him alone, told me the whole story, forwarded me her emails, etc. It felt wonderful...like it was me and him against the world again. Earlier this past week he worked from home. Him being on the computer all day was a trigger for me (most of their non-physical contact was via email). I know he was working (and I don't have any doubts he's still in nc) and I could see what he was doing but it still triggered the many times I would walk into the room and hear the click click of the mouse (when he'd close down a window so I couldn't see) or he'd laugh while they were IM (yes, right under my nose), etc. I had a hard night and he provided some comfort...again telling me we'd be fine, he promised to be faithful...even went as far as to say that this 'experience' can guarentee me his loyalty forever, he's sorry, etc.

I've been working on myself...help from stillwed with my personality type, reading and doing the exercises in Relationship Rescue (Dr. Phil), reading Love Languages, lurking the boards, etc. I've been trying to encourage communication (his weakness) but haven't pushed, trying not to LB, etc. I haven't brought up 'us' but have read in front of him so he sees I'm working, have told him about the books I'm reading, etc.

This morning he was flirty...joking about 'going upstairs' and I started crying. I just don't feel his love for me so when he jokes/flirts like that I question in my mind if he's saying he wants to be with me because he loves me or just because he needs a warm body (if you get what I'm saying). I need reassurance of his love and I'm not getting it. I've told him this but I don't think he gets it. I told him again today and started crying as I said it. I just plain don't feel loved and it gets worse every day.

Today I got on compter and saw that the websites on the tool bar had disappeared (I usually click there to get to this site). Of course this made me question so I looked at the history and discovered porn sites were viewed on Friday. I have a problem with my H looking at porn. We've discussed it many times and he has agreed that he doesn't need to look and won't. I don't think his viewing is a daily thing (although, who knows) but it still bothers me. In the past he's looked at what I guess would be called 'soft porn'...women in thongs etc. This time it was much more than that. It was very distrubing to me. I confronted him and he, of course, denied it giving the 'ole 'it must have been a pop up excuse'...trust me, with the number of sites and the number of links within the sites this was no pop up thing...he, of course, continues to deny it, says he made a mistake once (the A) and I'm going to throw it in his face forever...I'm not trying to talk about the A...I'm trying to talk about us...he gets angry and so end of conversation. If I don't want to trust him there is nothing he can do, if I want to leave there's the door, etc...it's my choice, he says.

Will they lying ever end? Should I just accept life as it 'used to be'? He's working on things around the house, playing with the kids, even emptied the dishwasher this morning. He's helping me out more, buying me gifts, etc but I'm just not feeling any better. I feel like my love bank is empty and I'm driving around on fumes. He's talking to me more about things that interest him (the deck he's building, football draft, etc) which is much better than how he was during the A but I'm not feeling any connection...when he talks to me it's like he could be talking to anyone. I don't feel special. I don't feel loved...and I don't feel like he cares...it's like he's doing what he thinks is 'the right thing' now so why isn't that enough?...and it's not even like he's asking 'why isn't that enough'? It's like, in his mind, it's enough so I should be happy...no reason to think I'm not so pat himself on the back...

Can anyone tell me what I should be doing? Am I asking for too much? I don't remember the last time I was happy...a decade or so ago. Sometimes I think I should just fade away and just go with the flow again but that's what led us here in the first place so I'm not sure that's such a good idea. We have always 'tackled the big stuff' together and I feel very alone now. I feel very trapped. I feel very unloved and alone. Does the pain every end? Can I 'fix this' by myself? Should I just go with the flow and not make any waves for a while and wait to see what happens. Why is it that he did wrong and I'm the one suffering? No I haven't forgiven him and I know that many say I/we will not get better until I do but I don't feel he's earned forgiveness. Even if my feelings are stupid, they are my feelings and shouldn't he be concerned about them? Is it wrong to want reassurance from him? Is it wrong to expect my needs to be met (he's meeting many of the top 10 ENs...but not the ones that are important to me). Is it wrong for me to think that he should be thinking about us...he says he's too preoccupied with the deck he's building but shouldn't he have some thoughts about us after all this? How is it that he can go all day without ever having his infidelity cross his mind? Without ever wondering if we'll make it? Without ever thinking about how hurt I am?

I'm sorry I rambled here. I just can't stop crying and he goes about life as if nothing has ever happened...

LF,
I think your feelings are pretty normal for someone who has been through such a traumatic event. You don't feel whole after such a blow and I honestly don't think there is anything the WS can do to make it go away entirely. It is just part and parcel of recovery.

Nothing will ever be enough for several months because your wounds are just TOO DEEP. Do you know what I mean? That doesnt mean that you don't keep asking him to try and meet your needs, but there has to be an acceptance that there are certain things that only TIME can heal.

Your spouse can only do so much for now. You will be grieving for about a year. I would go in cycles where I was fine for about 3-5 weeks and then it would start building up again and I would confront my spouse with my feelings again. I think it is important to talk those feelings out, LF. Don't lovebust him, but have a discussion with him. And continue to ask for his reassurance.

This will get better, LF, but you just have to give it time. It is much less painful than divorce, but not much!

Here is something that I showed my H that seemed to help him quite a bit. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010_qa.html

Also, his porn really needs to stop. That only hampers your recovery along with his lying. This is something I would not drop with him, LF. It probably makes you feel much worse to have him on the computer looking at naked girls. Can you put spyware on the computer?

Hi LF!

You are still on the rollercoaster and will be for a while yet. It's normal to feel what you are feeling now and then next week feel better. All's I can say is that (for me) after several days/weeks/months of ups and downs, at 10 months past d-day my emotions are starting to even out some, I feel loved from my H...most of the time, I believe him and am starting to trust him...most of the time, and the pain is less...most of the time.

As you know, our recovery really didn't begin until H finally "got it" at 7 months past d-day. He got it by going to IC, working with his male sponsor in AA (I know your H doesn't need AA, but maybe needs a strong male in his life) and by opening himself up completely. It drives me crazy when the WS says "I'm not going to talk about it anymore, it's over, done with, etc.". It just drives me crazy. I'm sure that it has to due with their own shame and embarrasment, but your H has to be 100% open and honest for both of you to get through this.

I know my H does not like to talk about the A, but has told me that I can continue to talk about it or ask him anything (he's only said this since about 7 months past d-day). That helps me a great deal. Even though I have asked very little since then...it just feels good to know that I can ask him anything I want, anytime I want. I'm at the point now in my thinking that I don't want to know anymore because I'll just end up with another crappy bad thought in my head.

I still have some shaky moments with some of the "lines" (that's how I feel about his comments sometimes) that H gives me...I'm beautiful, I'm sexy, etc. I know that he's said these same things to the other OW's. The OW's are not beautiful or sexy. H has even said this to me. So what does that say about me? Will the real beautiful and sexy please stand up? Ya know what I mean.

I still have some shaky moments with SF. Most of the time lately, I can actually get through our times together without it even popping into my head. But sometimes if he makes a move that I know he made on the last OW, I feel like I'm going to puke.

I still have some shaky moments with trust and believing H.

But overall, it is starting to get better.

It sounds like your H could use some IC. I would be concerned about the porn also, but even more so about the lying to cover it up. He must still have some issues he needs to work on.

Encourage your H to post on this website. Encourage your H to get IC or both of you go to MC. Encourage your H to spend time with you...real quality time. Maybe let him know that you really appreciate the gifts, cards and help around the house, but right now, honesty, communication, love, hugs, and support are what you need instead.

It just doesn't sound like you H really "gets it" yet. I don't think there's anything you can specifically do except to keep reading, posting, improving your self, trying to meet his EN's and encouraging him down the right path.

Don't worry so much about forgiveness. You will be ready to forgive when you are ready. Forgiveness is for you, not for H. I'm not there myself yet.

Hang in there and take care!

sss

HI LF! I think what you are feeling is normal. We are also about a month into NC! Your H might still be going thru withdrawal and using the deck as an excuse. Right now as I type this, my H is out in the garage working...something he doesnt' normall do, but I can tell he needs his space today. so I am not smothering him. I walk out there every hour or so to give him a hug and such!

Your wounds are very deep and this is not going to disappear overnight. I think you guys need to sit down and talk though. I know it is not fair that we as the BS have to suffer the most during this most traumatic experience.

You guys need to be working on what got you here in the first place. You need to change things...It sounds like you are doing very well. I will have good days and then bad days. Talk to your H about meeting your most important needs and you meeting his. Dont LB him.

ARe you in counceling? We councel with Steve harley every Tuesday. And it has saved our marriage and I dont think my H would have made it this far without his help! good luck to you!

Thank you everyone for your words. I guess I just don't think my H is ever going to change. He's back to what he was pre-A and I was content...since his A I am no longer content then...not happy but content. I know we are all in the same boat when I say, I can't believe he did this to me. I understand the 'reasons' for it but I do not accept them. I have read many posts where WS 'explain' what they were thinking, how they were feeling and what 'allowed them' to do what they did. I'm sorry but I truly feel like it's all horse sh*t. I was going through a lot at the time of my H's A and I didn't have an A. I am certainly going through a lot now and I'm not having an A. There is no excuse...it's completely inexcusable to destroy someone...anyone...like this...sickening to do this to someone who is your spouse/mother of your children. Does that make me hopeless in my m? Sometimes I think it does.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This will get better, LF, but you just have to give it time. It is much less painful than divorce, but not much! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what kept you from going that route? If it weren't for my children I'm not sure I would be here now. I think I would have packed up and left. I know you all say 'time' will make this better but I don't want it to be better...I want it to be gone...selfish, I know. Sometimes I just wish I hadn't found out. He said that he didn't think they'd have been together much longer anyway...she truly is no winner. I'm just not sure I can ever look into his eyes and feel love for him again. Yes, I love him but I hate him just as much...even more sometimes.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you put spyware on the computer?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I need it? I'm finding him looking at it without spyware. He'll still lie about it...lying is his speciality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">your H has to be 100% open and honest for both of you to get through this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and he's not being honest...and the sad part is that he's so good at lying that I'm sure he'll continue with it...much easier to lie than face the truth, after all. I saw the IM coming in from OW and confronted him on the spot...I even responded to her and he continued to deny the A...even after I found the emails he continued to deny. I don't know how to get him to stop lying to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I still have some shaky moments with some of the "lines" (that's how I feel about his comments sometimes) that H gives me...I'm beautiful, I'm sexy, etc. I know that he's said these same things to the other OW's. The OW's are not beautiful or sexy. H has even said this to me. So what does that say about me? Will the real beautiful and sexy please stand up? Ya know what I mean. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sure do. When he starts 'talking' SF I just feel like 'the warm body'. Perhaps he doesn't feel that way but that's how I feel...especially with him looking at porn. This is his top need and I have made so many changes in myself to meet this need...it just doesn't ever seem to be good enough. I'm sick most of the time when we touch. I have nightmares every night (and it's getting worse). I lie awake most of the night crying while he snores contently next to me. The other day he caressed my face (which I used to LOVE) and I had to leave the room...cried in the bathroom...because I know he did the same to her. Not to be graphic, but I know where that hand has been on her body and I certainly didn't want it on my face. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Who is he thinking about when he does that? I don't feel like it's me. I will admit that I am not meeting that need as well as he would like but I truly feel like a slut when we're together. He's always been very big on making sure I'm satisfied but he did the same for her (fortunately I do know neither was 'satisfied' very much) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> but I just can't stand the thought of him touching me like he touched her or doing to me what he did to her. I spend most of the time trying to refocus on something non-sexual because it's the only thing I've been able to do to 'get her out of my bedroom'...I just always feel like he's making love to her when he's with me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OW is ugly, self centered, and has had other As (although he insists she her PAs never got as far as sex...except with him...and we all believe that, don't we?). She's 10 years OLDER than me to make matters worse. There is NOTHING special about her except she flirted with him while I was home changing diapers, doing laundry, scrubbing toilets, etc...so wow! Don't I feel wonderful knowing he went to her over me? I'm disgusted when I look at myself in the mirror...ashamed, embarassed, humiliated that I allowed this to happen. I have SF with my H and I feel like a slut...isn't this what she should be feeling? Why am I feeling this way? Why isn't he? Maybe he is...I wouldn't know...he doesn't want to talk about his feelings. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you guys need to sit down and talk though. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree...unfortunately, he does not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It sounds like your H could use some IC.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He won't go. I've asked several times for him to go to MC with me and he refuses. He's been in the past and he feels they just want to try to 'fix' him. He feels like their experiement. He's got a lot of bones in his closet...a lot of pain from his childhood...he doesn't want to deal with them...and, in part, I think they are to blame for his A (he confronted his parents prior to the A and they tore him apart...and then tore me apart to him...what a loser I am, he married beneath himself, etc). He will not seek counseling. He's been on this site a couple of times but not for support. He responded to a post a while back about WS being selfish. He insisted that he wasn't being selfish by having an A...selfish is defined as doing for the good of yourself only...he feels he wasn't selfish because during his A he wasn't just trying to make himself happy but the OW also...it just led us to a huge fight...left me feeling worse for having encouraged him to post...great, it wasn't selfish because OW also benefited. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks everyone for listening. I know I'm not alone...that in itself makes it worse sometimes...does anyone else look at other women in the stores, on the roads, etc and think "you've got a 7 in 10 chance that either you or your H will cheat"? I think it everwhere I go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I appreciate your encouragement. I want to give up sometimes but today is not that day...at least not since I've read your words (thank god for these boards!!!) I'm going to finish reading Love Languages today and start The Dance of Intimacy tomorrow...I have to take a break from Dr. Phil for the day (Relationship Rescue is great but takes so much out of me...don't have enough strength today to do one of his exercises) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I haven't braved my latest book purchase on forgiveness yet...boy the people at the Barnes and Noble/Amazon warehouses must wonder about me with all my recent self-help purchases <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Thank you everyone for giving a piece of yourself to me today. Here's hoping there are no tears for you today.

LF, I sure would put spyware on his computer if I were you. That way you can see any chat conversations and any websites he visits. As long as you believe he is lying to you, you really need to watch your back here.

And it has a dual purpose. If he is not doing anything wrong, you can relax. I think spyware saved my marriage. I was a walking anxiety attack until I got it. Looking at his logs for the first year ASSURED me he was being truthful and gave me peace of mind.

I am very concerned that he is still lying to you and that has to be addressed. There is really no hope of intimacy, much less recovery if he is lying to you. That is a HUGE lovebuster that will eventually drain you dry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>by MelodyLane: This will get better, LF, but you just have to give it time. It is much less painful than divorce, but not much!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</strong>

So what kept you from going that route?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was going to divorce him. I told him to get out. I had just married him and didn't have children with him. He begged me to stay and go to counseling. So, I decided I would to counseling a few times with him so I could say I "tried" before I dumped the bum.

Anyway, he worked so hard to repair the damage that I here I am after all these years in the best marriage I could possibly imagine. It is much better than our relationship even when we were dating.

Another thought I want to leave you with, LF. Your pain will not last forever [about a year] but divorce will last forever. Divorce is permanent, your feelings are not.

Hi LF -

Just checking in to see how you are doing today! Better I hope.

Just wanted to stress that it does get better...the pain does lessen...and the visuals do fade.

You sound a lot like me...I remember every little detail I have learned about the last A. I'm sure I can still recite every single word in the last five voice mail messages that OW left my H last June. Sick, huh?

LF - I was in such a funk about a month ago. I still cried a little (sometimes a lot) almost every day. I didn't think I could ever accept, forgive and move on. I really was thinking that I would probably get a D.

While painting one weekend, something just clicked. I don't know how this happened, but I suddenly realized just how insignificant the OW was. I realized how sick my H was...addicted to the rush of an A, a thrill, getting his ego stroked, in addition to being an alcoholic. Imagine how awful my H must have felt about himself to try to make himself feel better with an unattractive, plain, uninteresting OW!!

The A's happened because of issues that H had from childhood...not because he met his "soulmate" or the "love-of-his life". The A's happened to make my sick H feel better about himself...that these ugly OW's wanted him, thought he was so wonderful, fed him the same lines of crap he fed them....etc.

It could be that your H needs IC also, to battle something that has affected him from long ago. The porn thing sounds serious to me in that he's lying about viewing it.

It may take some time yet for your H to come all the way around and "get it". I would just keep encouraging that he get IC but don't beg, cry or plead for IC or more attention from him.

Also remember that you hold all of the cards here. You have every right to set bounderies of what is acceptable and what is not (like no porn, no lying, etc.) and what happens then.

LF, I know it's so hard...but focus on yourself and your kids. Don't let that ugly old OW get you down!

sss

sss - Thank you for checking up on me. I'm not sure how I'm doing today. Had some 'words' with H last night and I'm not sure how I'm feeling about it...I guess just trying to put it out of my head today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> We have some people here doing some work today so I don't really have the ability to be on the computer (computer is in the middle of everything and I don't have the privacy I need...ahhh always manage to find tears when I write) but I do want to comment on some of the things you responded with and maybe get some advice also <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope I can get on the computer later today/tonight (trying to spend time with H at night) but if not I will definitely respond tomorrow. If you have time I hope you'll check back on this post.

I appreciate all the help I get on this site. I've been lurking mostly but I know I'm slipping when I find myself starting a post <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Why hasn't someone invented a crystal ball for all of us...if I knew things would work out I know I could handle all this pain...I've never been so unsure in my life <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thank you for your thoughts today.

LF

I read most of your first post and some of the replies. The replies were right on. Your feelings seem to be very normal to me.

I don't think that neither you nor your H can really go back to what you were pre-A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he's realized that he loves me and he wants us to be together there is nothing else to talk about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I hadn't known about the A I'd say our life is going along as it normally did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Something was/is wrong if there was room for another woman in his life.

Things are different now. He isn't the same and neither are you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't brought up 'us' but have read in front of him so he sees I'm working, have told him about the books I'm reading, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you think he should read the book, and he should, tell him. Don't tell him be "stealth". He won't get it.

It has been three years since my A was "over"...and since last August that all contact stopped. Not too long ago my W said she didn't feel cared for. She still has her "dark" days. I am in IC. We have been seeing an MFC since the A. Things aren't "normal", at least they are not what it was...and that is good.

Both of you have a lot of work to do (IMHO).

I wish you the best.
H

SSS - thanks again for thinking of me yesterday. It turned out to be another hard day and I wound up crying most of the night...H is clueless about this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I realized how sick my H was...addicted to the rush of an A, a thrill, getting his ego stroked, in addition to being an alcoholic. Imagine how awful my H must have felt about himself to try to make himself feel better with an unattractive, plain, uninteresting OW!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I completely understand this. I can take myself out of the situation and say, (1) I was working every night from the minute the kids went to bed until 2 or 3 am (trying to make the extra we needed to pay the bills) which left little time to be with my H (2) we were in the middle of moving...the stress of selling the house, trying to buy a house 200 miles away, packing, making arrangements, lawyers, etc (3) H was leaving his 'home'...lived in the area all of his life (4) H is leaving his job...staying with the same company but moving from all the friends he's worked with for 10 years (5) brought up some of his childhood issues with parents only to have them put him down and put his W down...this is a biggie and since I'd watched them ignore/put him down for 13 years and I've always known they thought he married beneath him I wasn't much help here (6) leaving the extended family he did get along with...especially an aunt who was really more of a mother to him than his own mother (7) 3 kids in 4 years...1 who was in the middle of chronic ear infections, 1 who was in the middle of chronic strep infections and needed tonsils out, and 1 with a blocked tear duct that was going to require surgery...

I completely understand all the stress he was under, the poor self esteem he was struggling with, the way OW stroked his ego....I know that OW is miserably unhappy in her own M and has been since my H has known her (about 7 years, I'd guess). I know that OW is they type of person who likes to bring others down with her...she'd rather complain about her bad M and convince others that theirs suck also than work on her M or encourage others to do so. Truly, my M was no 'Leave it to Beaver' but it was good. We had common goals and while we didn't spend the time together that we would have liked we both knew that the reason for that was because we wanted to create a certain life for ourselves and our kids. Our top needs weren't always being met but it was okay (or so I thought) because we were both working for that common goal...and this move was the goal...a move to a place we've both always wanted to be, where we would no longer struggle financially and would have the house, yard, and life we were working so hard for...this move would allow for me not to work and, while my H would still have to put in long hours at his job, I would be able to pick up the slack at home and there would be time for us to be together. There would be money to have the things we wanted and money to do things together and as a family. I know that we were both frustrated but, like I said, this move is what we've been working for and it was finally here. Our lives were finally going to be where we wanted them to be...We had several frustrating years of hard work and little time for each other. I vented to friends about it who all supported me and reminded me of our goal. They reminded me of our love for each other. They reminded me struggles in life are normal and that our time would come.

H vented to OW who convinced him that I was a loser. That I didn't work (I'm a stay at home mom and ran a business from home...but that's not working) so I must just be lazy and after his money (which is a joke since we've struggled financially since the day we met and I'm the one who has budgeted whatever we had to get us to where we are now...and out of his 'fog' H is the first to say that). She convinced him that if I truly loved him I'd spend time with him (not that I didn't want to but the bills do have to get paid...if I had worked outside of the home so we had time together at night I wouldn't have made enough to cover the cost of daycare for 3 children). She just plain convinced him that I was no good and she was better...with her failing M and 2 'loser' kids ('loser' is her term not mine). So I can clearly see the spot that he was in. I can clearly see how the 'fog' set in and he went where he felt supported and where his ego was stroked. I can see with our lack of time together allowed time for her to walk right between us...but I also know that we've always been a team...even through the really rough and stressful times...so while I read your quote and can imagine the thrill my H was getting...the addiction...and I can feel his pain for having had to go to this loser of an OW...I can not accept it...

Aren't I feeling stress now? Wouldn't I love my ego stroked now (and all the times I felt alone while he was working/traveling)? Aren't I hurting? Am I having an A? Have I ever thought of having an A? Even when times were bad between us before did I have an A? It is just not the answer and, while I 'understand', I just don't understand. This was so out of character for my H (and I know for most WS). toomanylies recently posted about feeling the loss of her protector and I guess that's it in a nut shell. My protector was protecting someone else...and not only protecting her but putting me up as his shield (to use toomanylies words) to take his bullets. He said horrible things about me to OW and allowed her to say them about me, planned to try to take my children from me, plotted against me...if my protector did all these things to me how am I ever to trust him again?

Hey TWIN! I saw ya posting in recovery about the personality thing , thats nice , its also fun , don't ya think . ??

What am I talking about ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Oh yes , the way your feeling , well read most the responses here and I agree . I guess this is normal LOL , but you don't want it to be normal .

Ok I may put myself out for 2x4's but thats ok .

Do you know your H ? I mean basicly his personality , actions , the way he avoids , what he does when he runs from himself ?
I am asking because , you need to take the things you know from the time you M him the things you knew going in and excepted (following)

Not all the FWS/WS are ever going to "recover" the same way and take the same steps to do so . They 'DO' according to who they are .

Now because of the affair , I like you agree there should be some more in there pea brain , I mean hey they HURT the one they love the most in the world BLAH BLAH .

My H acts pretty much the same way you discribed yours . I mean the hole , I can't be punished forever, and I am here and love you honeny,and won't do it again because I wouldn't put "myself through that again " Then says basicly he can't possiable think of anything more to do to prove his love to me , I just got to go with normal .
HHHHHHHHMMMMMMMM NO I don't want to , and I am thinking you don't either.

LOOKING for this NEW FOUND APPRECIAION for what we put up with , looking for them to look in our eyes and say I can't belive I could have lost you you are amazing and I really don't deserve you .
SEX- well looking for the 'ROMANCE' not the flirty ,LOOKING for the MAKE LOVE AND HOLDING with a twist of the TOUCH with the words filled with future thoughs and remorse and most of all something that will say YOUR PAIN IS KILLING ME 2!

Wanting him to feel your pain and understand it really understand it may not happen , he felt enough and wants to feel no more .

It is not fair , but I belive (JMO) some never will go there , they can not face that side of this hole thing .

You are doing wonderful , helping to try and fix you ,,,, BUT are you doing it to because you fel you need fixing or because you think you want to to help be better FOR HIM ?

JMVHO ... YOUR working way hard , hey maybe I am wrong or out of line ,, but girl give yourself a break ,, I to feel what you said in first post ,, there really was no excuse for the A .

FWS /WS does what they wanted to thats that . SELFISH action !

Take a week off and go with the flow your flow , no books , no PLAN .
BE who you want to be really who you want to be .

GO back in time and revisit the you before M or at the beging of M or dating time .

Open up to having FUN , with him . Get out side and pick up a hammer and through a nail in that deck ,,, have dinner on the floor (picnic style) where his football jersey to bed and be a SLUT !

YES I said that , do it for you , have sex for you if you have to , we all have it in us .

Be single in your head for a week , TAKE a not so seriuos appraoch for a week and see if that gets him to open up . I am sure there was a time when he did . So bring back that atmaspher .
Also about OW .

Stop thinking of the he did this with her thing , so is he thinking of me or her when he does it .ITS a killer (I did/do it ALL the time )

What I try and rember (try) is that the things he did with OW where probbly the things he did with me ,,, HOW DOES IT HELP .... well I started thinging it was me he wanted , he wanted to do those things with me again , but he was to stupid to know that I was willing and able if he exspressed to get it back .

When I spoke to OW I was so pissed he took her every where we where , even gave her MY knick name, kissed her in my SOECIAL spot ,, but then relized , He was just recreating me the us we had pre-M , pre-a at a point before I became MOM .

KNOW WHAT I MEAN .

I am not saying that IC wouldn't help of corse it would , but can't make someone do what they don't belive in.

Ok I am rambling and daughter home sick and wants attention ... I like them in school LOL

I will return and maybe get back on thought , I hope you can understand me if I don't get back .

I am going to have to have my H read your post , maybe when he reads it from someone else he may 'GETN IT 2 ' LOL

hang in there , ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

we posted at same time I will be back later , good vent girl ! get it out theres nothing wrong with what your thinking NOTHING!

YOu do need to vent it .

sss - I'm back...had to take the kids to their play group (and I actually made it through the entire class without trying to figure out which 60-70% of the mothers will/have/are dealing with this same issue...hopefully that's a good sign) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also remember that you hold all of the cards here. You have every right to set bounderies of what is acceptable and what is not (like no porn, no lying, etc.) and what happens then </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I? I don't feel like I do. I can certainly voice my concerns/opinions...I can certainly ask for what I want but ultimately the choice is his. He will do what he wants and if it hurts me...well, apparently that doesn't matter. He says it does. He says he'll never hurt me again but he also knows that porn/lying hurts me and he did both...actions speak louder than words...and if he'll hurt me this way, what's to say he won't hurt me in other ways?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LF, I know it's so hard...but focus on yourself and your kids. Don't let that ugly old OW get you down!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The thing is that that ugly old OW doesn't always get me down. I don't think of her all that much because I now know that she could have been anyone...it's the damn betrayal that I can't shake. It's the inability to trust that is eating me up. It's the inability to determine what is the truth and what isn't. It's the wondering and the fear and the fighting and way it's all beating me down...and I know many on these boards say, 'don't let it' and I know they're right but that's easier said than donw. ARGH!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">posted by Hiker:
Something was/is wrong if there was room for another woman in his life.

Things are different now. He isn't the same and neither are you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, I completely agree...so thus my question of how can he go back to acting like he was before? I know I'm not the same (less trusting, more depressed, less optimistic, more 'on guard') but how is he different? What is he thinking? What is he feeling? When I ask he tells me that he's very occupied with the repairs going on around the house and doesn't really have time to think about us and where we're going. He tells me to just give it a few months so he can get everything done and then I'll see the difference. He tells me he's confident that we'll make it and be stronger than ever so there's nothing to think about. The only change I see in him is that he's very angry (which started shortly before the PA started). He screams a lot more. His words are much more hurtful than they used to be (when we're fighting...which we seem to do a lot of these days). He has little patience and when I try to talk about things he says I'm looking for a fight. He pushes me away more (not physically) whenever I want/need to talk about something that's bothering me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">posted by 3:
Wanting him to feel your pain and understand it really understand it may not happen , he felt enough and wants to feel no more .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess that's probably the truth. In his book it's time to move on but that's most certainly because he wasn't the one betrayed. Heck, he got his ego stroked, had a little nookie, played around and felt good AND got to come home to a clean house and 3 great kids...I even washed the clothes she wore of his and paid the bills for the things he bought her. I dropped him off at the airport so he could go see her (unknowingly, of course) and bought every lie he told me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">have sex for you </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I have absolutely no desire. None. Zilch. Zippo. I'm doing my best to try to meet this need for him but feeling his touch... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> GO back in time and revisit the you before M or at the beging of M or dating time .
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ahhh, what a nice thought. While I'm doing that though who is going to be taking care of the kids and house? I've got a babysitter for this Saturday (our second date night since A...part of my trying to meet his RC need...and a HUGE step for me since I don't ever leave my kids with a babysitter) and I actually dread it. Our first date night was horrible. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Well, I'm off to iron...changed my wardrobe for H and it requires ironing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Thank you everyone for your support. I know I sound very negative but I am hearing your words. I will reread and process more. I know my H is trying in some ways (like building the deck...something we've always dreamed of having and I know he's doing it because he truly believes it will make us better)...maybe I'm asking for too much.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Hi LF

Glad to see you post again.

Am tied up at work right now. Plan on responding this afternoon.

Hang in there.

sss

No , you are not asking for 2 much , not at all .

Ever here the saying you can run but you can't hide . Conflicted Avoider! Thats all he is , he got through the first process ,the n/c and he is home . Maybe even withdrawal , (I tend to think some do not show it in the depression way )

Like your H , mine does/did the same , always doing around the house yard work , build a brick wall, new landscape , redo kids room ect. it was always after this gets done we have plenty of time for us ,,, yet always starting a new project .

So over that time he was home (also in beging while trying to achieve N/C) till now I just let him do , do do do and all the while I would say to him so what ya gone do after you run out of stuff have another A? Or say we have grown apart during this time ???


He slowly very slowly is understanding those words I speek , I will HEARD !

Some may say its wrong or a LB , but me I feel it is open and honest , I want to say what I want , I never once want to look back at this and him ever be able to say HE DIDN"T KNOW , or you should have tried harder ....

I KNOW that I express my unhappiness and if he CHOOSES to turn a deaf ear then when the time comes for ME to move forward with out him one day I never have to look back and be disappointed in me or second guess if there was something else I could have done .

This is a partnership and if I can be faithful and not get needs met , without having to look somewhere else then he can suck it up to and if he really don't like it well then he can do the work it takes to have the M we both want .

This is very early in the hole thing for you , 11 wks d-day and 5wks n/c ,,, VERY early ...

He still has hope alot of hope that he 'WILL GET IT'

I ain't saying I agree with it , I am with you they should get it right away , they did wrong , they lied , cheated, manipulated ect. be abig boy A MAN as a matter a fact and grow up and fix it .

I am down with you , anything else is an excuse , and I understand , but don't understand the hole A thing either .

Date night and babysitters I got problems with that as well . Do as you see fit , He has to understand this is a M with children , that is what he wanted also isn't it ,, then the responsiablity of being parents goes along with it ,, and life isn't get up and go go go after kids ,,, yes some do and thats nice for them but everyone has there own way that they choose to have there family life its not a right way or wrong way .

What I am saying is STOP being so hard in you , there is only so much one person can do , know that . This is not only yours to carry . Yes it feels like that .

Keep pluging at it , you will find the right way to get through to him . But take a break , let things be just NORMAL for awhile , it may make him feel safe , to eventually jump on board .

After all the d-day, fighting crying , talking and then n/c you got to breath , some don't jump right in , it may be a slower pace for him .

And you should slow don't aliitle to , don't let fear take over, trust will be earned forgivness will 2 .

Think of it as potty training LOL

YOU know the process , they won't go near that potty no matter how cool you make it look , then one day they see it on there own and explore the feeling of sitting ,,, then they only do #1 and god knows #2 takes awhile ,,,,, then the BIG goal they learn to wipe WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

THEY GOT IT THEY GOT IT !!!!!!!LOL

Well thats a WS ,, little bit at a time and its as frustrating as that 2yr old on the potty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So some FWS /WS get potty trained real fast ,,, some are slow learners to discover that they are sitting on a really great thing there S is right there in front of them all along .

Ok I like my potty thing !!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

YOU and no one else can tell I am a SHM !

LF - sorry it took me so long to respond. Crazy day yesterday at work and home plus my rollercoaster took its own little dip!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do I? I don't feel like I do. I can certainly voice my concerns/opinions...I can certainly ask for what I want but ultimately the choice is his. He will do what he wants and if it hurts me...well, apparently that doesn't matter. He says it does. He says he'll never hurt me again but he also knows that porn/lying hurts me and he did both...actions speak louder than words...and if he'll hurt me this way, what's to say he won't hurt me in other ways? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess what I mean is that you can establish boundries of what you will live with or what you need to continue working on your M and staying in your M.

For instance, when I found out my H was still lying after 3 months of MC, I asked him to move out. I flat out told him that I would not continue MC unless he could be honest with me about our past and present, plus future. I also wanted him to see an IC to learn about his addictions (A's, gambling, drinking). My boundries also included eliminating personal conversations with other women, no business lunches, dinner, travel, etc. alone with other women...you get the idea. I mean, my God, right during the middle of our first three months of MC I found out he sent a Happy Birthday email to a female vendor contact at like 7:45 am in the morning (it's like he always had feelers out for the next A victim). This b-day message went out a couple of days before the current OW's b-day. Was H sending his MALE vendor contacts b-day emails or cards? Noooooooo.

These were my boundries, my choices. That is what I needed. Of course, now H had a choice to make.

I had to establish these boundries and stand by them. I knew that I could not continue to be M to a lying, cheating, alcoholic. Was I scared? YES! Was I worried that H wouldn't committ? YES! I wasn't sure what H would do. Did H have a choice? YES! But his choice did not include staying M'd to me and continuing down the same path.

And, as you know, after about 6 weeks of separation, H was ready to commit to these things but it took another 3 months or so before he really GOT IT! You can only work on M recovery so much on your own.

Your boundries might be something like...no porn, no lying, spend XX amount of time talking about your M, go to IC to learn more about the why's of the A, why the porn, etc.? And, as you said, your H has a choice at that point. BUT it's after you decided what you can and cannot live with. WHAT CAN YOU LIVE WITH? Make sense?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I just don't think my H is ever going to change. He's back to what he was pre-A and I was content...since his A I am no longer content then...not happy but content. I know we are all in the same boat when I say, I can't believe he did this to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's so crazy you know? I thought I had an honest, open, loving relationship with H before the A. I didn't. I look back on it now and can see that I did most of the talking, H didn't really say anything. I was the honest one (good or bad - I tell it like it is). I look back now and realize what a conflict avoider H was. I look back now and can see how selfish and manipulative H was. I can look back and see what an enabler I was of his problems (drinking, gambling). I look back on our relationship and see something entirely different now than what I thought I was living at the time. It's shocking.

I didn't think my H could or would change anything either, but he is.

Has your H said anything about the porn? Like reasons why he views it? Does he know why he had the A?

I hope this helps you a little bit. Please do what is right for you. The path I've been on, the choices I've made, the boundries I have established may not be right for you, your H and your M, but I hope this gives you some ideas of how you can handle it.

sss - thanks for your response. I hope your rollercoaster ride has ended...you're always so helpful to me and I hate to know that you're still having rough spots...I guess we all are, huh?

I understand the boundries but I guess I just really don't feel like I have a choice. Maybe I need to find more strength but I just really don't feel like I have the control...if it were just me I'd be gone. I have no doubt about that. I would have discovered the A and left that night...packed my bags and left. I love my H...or should I say that I love the man I thought he was. Maybe that would have been the wrong choice, I don't know but what I do know is that I would not have tolerated an A. If he can't love me completely...if he can't find comfort in our M...if he can sleep with another woman...he can't have me. That is not what I want out of life. If you can't be faithful to me you can't be with me...PERIOD!

...but I have three children to think about. 3 small children...3 children who adore their father. I am unemployed and even if I were to be offered a job tomorrow I do not have the background to make enough money to support 3 children...okay, well, I could if I had to but then they would grow up like my sisters and I grew up (yup, child of divorce here) and I don't want that for my children. We were poor...very poor...and that is the life I would give to my children if I were to leave. I can't do that to them. The A has ended and H is 'home'...my children are happy...I could not live with myself if I knew that I destroyed their lives just so that I could be happy...and would I be happy...I know my mother wasn't...the fighting continued, the court battles were never ending...

...so I find myself repeating the words, "Think of the children" to myself. My H is home, he says he's sorry, he tells me he loves me, he's talking to me (not about us but talking and sharing things from his day...a struggle for him), he's spending a lot of quality time with the kids, he's helping out around the house more, he's even sent me a few love notes (I only wish I could believe his words). He works less, he defended me (us) to OW when she contacted him and tried to play the 'your W is a *itch' game (big kudos to him), and he tells me he's confident in us...heck, what else do I want, right? So I guess I question if I have the 'right' to ask for more....I am working on myself and hoping that if I add that to what he's doing maybe the lying will stop. Maybe he'll be so in love with me again that he won't feel he has to look at porn...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I look back on our relationship and see something entirely different now than what I thought I was living at the time. It's shocking.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, for me, when I look back I see the same thing I saw then. Maybe it's my 'fog' but I really think our relationship was good....not perfect but good. Like I said, there were bad times but still more good than bad. There were things we both wanted that we didn't have (more time together, an extended family that was better than what we had, the ability to work less, etc) but we were working towards a common goal and we both talked about how great it would be when 'our time came'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Has your H said anything about the porn? Like reasons why he views it? Does he know why he had the A?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've asked my H about the porn (which I don't think is an every day thing) and he says that all men do it and if they say they don't they're lying (not that all men do it all the time but all men have done it on occassion). I asked him what satisfaction he got out of viewing it and he said it's just a visual thing...women are beautiful to look at, etc. Might have believed that when he was looking at the women in thongs but not the stuff I saw this past weekend. He denies looking at that so I can't get an answer as to why on that.

As far as the A he just says he was confused. He knows he was wrong but he felt I didn't love him...my work always came first...second really because the kids were first...guess he didn't realize how many times his work came first (before me or the kids). In truth he now knows (with the fog lifted) that OW planted a lot of false things into his head and because of all the pressure he was under he believed her...she supported him, she complimented him, she not only validated his feelings but convinced him that I was wrong, not worth being with, out for his money, out to hurt him, etc. THe problems with his parents took a huge toll on him and with them also telling him I was no good he started to believe it. She took his neg feelings, feelings of self doubt, and encouraged them and then convinced him she was the only one who could fix them. Their PA started days before we moved away and he said that he figured that was all there would be (not really sure what happened that night...his job threw him a going away party). My H was on 8 business trips in the 3 months following our move...which was pretty much the length of their A. I asked him if we hadn't moved if he would have had the A and he said no. He wouldn't have been leaving so he wouldn't have felt he was 'losing his good friend' (the supposed reason for the first 'event') and he said that the dynamics of his/her life wouldn't have allowed for an A...which he said was fine since he hadn't thought one was going to happen in the first place (all physical aspects of the A were on business trips so there was no going home to spouse, kids, etc. No making excuses for being late, etc...there was no one to be accountable to). Apparently for her it was a big thing that he was much younger than her and that she was his boss (I guess that was her thrill) so she stroked his ego to get what she wanted.

Some days are better than others. Some days I just can't get things out of my head. I try not to think about OW...she truly isn't worth my time but SF is really suffering right now. Personally I don't care (no desire) but it is my H's top need. Between the porn and the A I wonder who my H is trying to have sex with (in my heart I believe he wants nothing to do with OW but he did tell her she was 'the best he's ever had'...fog). I'm at the point now where I just want to satisfy him so he won't touch me...I used to love when he touched me (even non-sexually) now I crave his touch and cringe when I get it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sorry to have talked your ear off. Sometimes it helps just to write the feelings down. I hope your day is better today. I'm sorry I'm not any support to you. Thanks for listening.

LF -

Yes, it does feel better just to write it all out sometimes, doesn't it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...so I find myself repeating the words, "Think of the children" to myself. My H is home, he says he's sorry, he tells me he loves me, he's talking to me (not about us but talking and sharing things from his day...a struggle for him), he's spending a lot of quality time with the kids, he's helping out around the house more, he's even sent me a few love notes (I only wish I could believe his words). He works less, he defended me (us) to OW when she contacted him and tried to play the 'your W is a *itch' game (big kudos to him), and he tells me he's confident in us...heck, what else do I want, right? So I guess I question if I have the 'right' to ask for more....I am working on myself and hoping that if I add that to what he's doing maybe the lying will stop. Maybe he'll be so in love with me again that he won't feel he has to look at porn...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...talking about his day, a struggle for him.

Well, it's still very early in your recovery. Still very close to d-day. If your H is working on communicating with you, and it sounds like he is, communication should become easier for him. He will hopefully feel safer then to move on to feelings and relationship talk and not feel the need to lie about stuff. As he becomes more comfortable telling you things and sharing with you, the closer he should feel to you and maybe the porn thing will be over and done with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but he did tell her she was 'the best he's ever had'...fog). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FOG TALK!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> now I crave his touch and cringe when I get it... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...know exactly what you mean. I can remember one night when I asked H to touch me every where...I was dying for him to touch me every where. Then ended up bawling my head off and asking him to stop because I couldn't stand it.

I know what you mean...thinking about the children. I was worried about that when I divorced my xh. I didn't want to screw up my children but also could not see myself spending the next 18 - 20 years in the loveless M that I had. My kids were 4 & 7 when we divorced (now 15 and 12). My kids are doing great. Teachers have told both of us at parent/teacher conferences that they commend us for being such *good* divorced parents. It's tricky to do, but can happen with some extra effort. Fortunately, XH and I get along much better as friends/parents than we did as H & W. I also made enough $ to support me and my boys!

LF - It sounds like more time and patience are in order then. Sounds like your H is coming around just maybe isn't all the way there yet. And you, you are still dealing with normal emotions and the trauma of learning about an A.

It does get better. I can see it, almost feel it, almost grasp the better M just waiting ahead for me. It's just at the end of my fingertips...I really think it can happen.

Talk to you soon.

Take care.

sss

sss - Thank you...you've given me a lot to think about...I think my H is trying (sometimes I do, anyway) and I know he knows that what he did was wrong. He's trying to talk with me more and I hope you're right, that perhaps this will make him feel more open to talk about other things. He's always been closed about certain topics but 'us' was never one of those topics. He's always been very affectionate (right up until the time the A started) and has never been closed about expressing his feelings towards me...until now...until her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It does get better. I can see it, almost feel it, almost grasp the better M just waiting ahead for me. It's just at the end of my fingertips...I really think it can happen.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That sounds almost encouraging <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know I need to feel this pain...to grieve...but at the same time I don't know why I deserve to be going through this. My H and I were talking just this past summer about having another child. We opted for this house over another partially because there would be room for another child if we decided to have another. We had no definite plans but were talking (and I was hoping) and I remember as if it were yesterday my H coming home to tell me that OW thought we were crazy for having the third (she wasn't OW yet). How she couldn't understand why anyone would want three children...how she just didn't get it...she's not much of a mother from what my H tells me...anyway, at this time last year I thought I'd be working on getting pregnant...not working on saving my M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks again for your posts. Hope your doing well today.