In Jan. I discovered my H was having an A with a former girlfriend. He hadn't seen her or heard from her for over 20 years - we've been married for 15 and she's been married twice (3 years, 16 years) and had kids with both men. Suddenly, last fall she emails him and tells him how sorry she is for what happened all those years ago and since we had been going through a rough stretch he responds to her and before you know it they are emailing and speaking daily. He even took off four days to meet with her (she lives in a nearby state so they both traveled to meet). I guess I knew something was going on - all the signs were there, but I didn't want to really know it was going on. When I found out, he did all the things I expected - called her and broke off the relationship (I wasn't there) and chose me and our famiy (two sons - 13, 11). I made mistakes along the way since then - I brought up things that happened and I've found out that he can't handle this. He has gotten very angry and regressed.
During the past few weeks I could tell that he had been pulling away. Finally, last week I confronted him and he broke down and said he has been tempted to contact her and nearly had on several occasions. I found out that when they broke it off in Jan. they left the door open to get back together in a couple of years. A couple of weeks after the initial break-up there were mysterious calls to his work phone and I made him call her and tell her to stop calling - this time I listened in. The next day he received an angry email stating that she was deleting his numbers and addresses (of course, she hadn't been calling- auto redial) and that the items he was to send back to her could be thrown away (I knew about these items). Of course, my H couldn't throw them away - instead he mailed them back with a note stating he couldn't do that - he claims that's all the note said. Last week he told me he still loved her and always had. After a long discussion, he decided that he was going to end the relationship in his mind and heart - even though I wanted him to write a letter to put real finality to it - and make our marriage work.
Here I am a week later completely obsessed, worried, and heartbroken. He has been very sweet to me, but I really wonder what's going on. I read into every single thing that he does - does it mean something, like he's really contacted her?
I've given him things to read - Dr. Harley's stuff - but I'm afraid to ask him if he's read it for fear he'll get angry and things will get set back again. Is it time to push the issue and ask him to read the stuff I've given him and really begin working on our relationship or is it just too soon? I understand that he needs to have a plan to keep away from her until this feeling dies. Is it possible for that love to dies for someone from the past that he claims to have always loved? How do I deal with the fact that I was his second choice? I always believed he loved me, but he's rocked the very core of my being. He tells me he loves me. Help - what do I do?

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: barelytogether ]</small>

I've been reading a lot of the other postings waiting for a reply to mine. Is my problem too difficult?
The posting itself has given me ideas and strength to do what I think needs to be done - set up a plan based on the information I gave my WH. If he is truly ready to save our marriage, then he has to work with me and make time to make it work. The big question is: Do you think he still needs to write a letter of finality, since apparently it's over for her, but up until last week he still held out hope? Is this opening a new line of communication with the OW?

Barelytogether,

Welcome to MB! It's wretched that you find a need for this site, but such a blessing that it exists!

My H had an EA with his old high school sweetie, too. He hadn't heard from her in almost 30 years, and as soon as he was in contact with her it was like he was hit with a piano falling from above - he said there was no "falling" in love, he was totally blindsided. Old flames have an extraordinarily strong tug; people form very close bonds in their teens. We tend to remember our old flames in the context of all the invincibility, carefree attitudes, and new independence of our youth.

Your H says he wants to break it off, and I see no reason to doubt him - but it is a very strong draw he's trying to fight. I say this not to frighten or discourage you, but in the hopes that you will understand how very difficult it is for him, too. NOT an excuse, NOT a reason, but perhaps a point of empathy. You guys need to work together first on getting him "away" from her, and then on healing your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I found out, he did all the things I expected - called her and broke off the relationship (I wasn't there)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Major bummer! You don't know if he said "I was a fool, it's over, go away and leave me alone" or if he said "You will always be the love of my life but I owe this to my W..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Since they "left the door open" it's NOT the first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Contact with OW has to end completely and forever.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I made mistakes along the way since then - I brought up things that happened and I've found out that he can't handle this. He has gotten very angry and regressed.
During the past few weeks I could tell that he had been pulling away. Finally, last week I confronted him and he broke down and said he has been tempted to contact her and nearly had on several occasions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suspect he's been in contact with her again. When a WS gets angry for no reason, and pulls away, it's because they are involved with OP. They feel guilty, and that's where the anger comes from. They try to justify and rationalize their feelings for OP so they pull away from their spouse thinking to themselves "Our M was messed up anyway and has been for a long time". They pick fights hoping for a blow-up so they'll feel justified in running to OP.

Don't be baited by these behaviors. Remain calm and don't scream, make demands, call names, make threats, whimper, beg... just be the most dignified mature you that you can be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A couple of weeks after the initial break-up there were mysterious calls to his work phone and I made him call her and tell her to stop calling - this time I listened in. The next day he received an angry email stating that she was deleting his numbers and addresses (of course, she hadn't been calling- auto redial)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't get this. Did your H tell you there were mysterious calls? Or were you there and witnessed the calls? And are you saying she hadn't been calling your H but he'd been calling her instead, and that you discovered this by looking at the auto redial on his phone? I'm guessing they're still in contact and you're saying you discovered that fact. Please set me straight if I'm wrong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, my H couldn't throw them away - instead he mailed them back with a note stating he couldn't do that - he claims that's all the note said.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately, I wouldn't believe him.

He thinks he loved her and always has because right now that's what he feels. He feels admired, his ego is being stroked, he remembers his youth. Heady stuff! He needs complete and total NC forever. YOU need to be a part of that NC communication. No more phone calls that he tells you his version of, no more notes that he tells you his version of. He needs to write a NC letter that YOU see, that YOU approve, and that YOU mail.

He also needs to reassure you in other ways - give you the password to his voice mail. Share all cellphone bills with you. Share all email passwords. Allow you to put a tape recorder on the phone line if it makes you feel better. Allow you to put "spyware" on the computer if it makes you feel better. If he gets angry, it's because he's feeling guilty. If he really wants to work on the M, then he might feel guilty and embarrassed (he should! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) but he should also be willing to go to extraordinary lengths to protect you and earn back your trust.

He has to EARN your trust. You don't "give" him your trust. It is EARNED.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've given him things to read - Dr. Harley's stuff</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Skip all that for now. Your H isn't anywhere close to wanting to deal with the real issues and when you try to educate him you just make him angry and push him away. Right now you two should focus on accomplishing NC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I deal with the fact that I was his second choice?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You weren't second choice. He married YOU. He had children with YOU. He's confused right now, sure, but you are not his second choice.

So, game plan:

- NC letter written by him, approved and mailed by you (or better yet, by both of you together)
- Full disclosure of all passwords, cellphone records, etc.
- Optional tape recorder and spyware

Something YOU can do to help your M get back on track:
Read up on Love Busters (click the "Concepts" link near the top of this page) and avoid them like the plague!!!

Keep posting, this can work out.

He told me about the mysterious "no message" calls and then that evening I was there after a no call came to see the line blinking. He didn't actually speak to her, but we figured with the time of the calls and the no messages that they were from her. I do have access to cell phone records, voice mail passwords, and email passwords. I have since the beginning.
We work at the same place (so I have access to his office) - except he travels to another building only a few miles away and I have no access to anything there. That makes me nervous.
At this point do I push hard for the NC letter? Thanks for the support - although now I am terrified that he has gone back and contacted her.

I would tell your H in a kind and loving manner that you personally need a NC letter so that you can move forward. Tell him that them "leaving the door open" frightens you. Tell him how much it would mean to you for him to write a NC letter *with* you, and then mail it *with* you.

Tell him you need to be a team with him, and that knowing the door is open makes you feel frightened and vulnerable, rather than protected.

Then it's up to him. You can make "I" statements and polite requests, but you can't force him to do anything. If he refuses, wait a few weeks and ask again.

Don't freak out worrying whether there's renewed contact. Easier said than done, I know!!! Since you saw the blinking light and were there, you have reason to believe your H. Also since he's shared passwords, cell records, etc. that's another reason to believe him. Just keep your eyes open so you can address any issues and fears WITH your H when they arise.

Focus on improving yourself - learn to avoid love busters. Don't let his guilt/anger keep you from expressing your feelings in an honest manner.

Oh, DEFINITELY thank your H for being so open and honest with you when he said he was tempted to contact her but he did not. Do you realize how hard that must have been for him to do? I'm sure he felt like you'd lob his head off (or worse) but he still avoided her and turned to you instead. This is a HUGE gift he has given you. Be sure to thank him for it!

Hi BT,

I think Turtlehead did a really good job - It's about what I would have said, though I would not have done it nearly so well.

It looks like you need the NC letter for you - as much as any thing. If you worry about what he will say - try something like this.

" H, I know you feel it's over, and I know you told her on the phone not to call, but I am an emotional basket case and I need closure too.

It would help me so much if you will write a NC letter to OW and tell her that it's over, and that it will never start up again. I would like to help with it, and mail it to her when you are finished with it. Will you do this for me to help me through this terrible time?"

BTW, I am not trying to put words in your mouth, or infer that you are a basket case - just giving an example of a direction you might try. You would have to use your own feelings in your own words.

I agree with TH about you being his first choice.
Who did he sleep with last night? The night before? I think you get the idea.

Thanks for the support - although now I am terrified that he has gone back and contacted her.

It is going to take time for this to get better for you. No matter how hard he tries, it won't be better in a day, or a month. I hope you have read SAA and have an idea about how things will go, and can tell him what to expect. It will help both of you cope during the hard parts.


Don't feel guilty about your feelings, you didn't have the A, you didn't cause all this. You are just trying to do the best you can to get through it. YOU SHOULD ask him to help, and explain to him what you need. HE SHOULD help you recover by doing the things you need to heal.

You still have more hard times ahead, but I think you can get through them. Don't doubt yourself - have some faith it will all work out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS

How does everyone handle the "craziness" feeling - so worried, obsessed, nervous, anxious . . .?
Sometimes I feel as if I could crawl right out of my skin. Of course, this happens when the H and I aren't around each other. My mind wanders and "forsees" the negative future by remembering the terrible past I've heard about. I can't even eat normally - not that it hurts I am already overweight.
I have only confided in one person and she told me this would probably be easier if I was a dumb $@*% and wasn't an intelligent woman who thinks about everything. The idea of being an intelligent woman and ignoring the signs just kills me because I "knew" within a few weeks of the A's start (emails) that something was going on and I did nothing. Maybe I could have prevented it from going so far and being so serious.
Thanks for the words of support. I hope you're right about being his first choice. It's just so hard to swallow that he still thinks he loves her after all she's done to him in the past. Obviously she has always left him with the door open just enough to keep him interested.

Last night I approached my H about the NC letter. He didn't get angry, he simply said it wasn't necessary. When I asked him why, he said that I had heard their last conversation (which is true - his call to her after the mysterious hang-up calls) where he told her to stop calling and that it was over. He also said that I read her angry email the day after that in which she stated that she had removed him from her auto re-dial list, etc. - she hasn't contacted him since so she obviously got the message. I think I pushed a little hard because at one point he said for me to write the letter and he'd sign it and we could send it. That's not really the point - right? It should be written by him for our closure or is this closure really just for me?
After last Monday night's revelations (he still had feelings for her and always had), it's like he turned a corner. He's been very affectionate, attentive, converstational, and the SF has been great. Does this usually happen so suddenly? The "fog" lifts just like that and the husband returns?
This morning I also asked him to read "Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery After An Affair" (I'd already given him a copy). He asked why and I told him that it may give him insight into our recovery. He didn't get mad, but I can tell he's skeptical.
He did not get angry last night - a little agitated at times maybe. He also acknowledged that what he did hurt me and he thinks I may never be able to get over it because I bring things up (recovery only - I don't rehash the past anymore).
What do I do now? Wait? Hope he continues around the corner? Will there be another down cycle?

Barely...

It's been a little over 2 months for me and I still have times of distress. Things have gotten easier with time, though everyone and every situation is different. Looking back at my own situation, there are things that I now see that I think "If only I had done ____." Well, I didn't. Hindsight is 20/20. I can't change the past, only how I react to it. You can't "control" your H, just yourself and how you respond to your situation. Try to make yourself a better person and your H may come along for the ride <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

One thing I do for the "crazies," as you call them, is to read. I read alot of posts on here, websites regarding infidelity and I've also been reading a lot of books lately (SAA, HNHN, Torn Assunder, The Power of Positive Thinking, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren). It helps to take my mind off of IT. Good luck and God Bless!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he said for me to write the letter and he'd sign it and we could send it. That's not really the point - right? It should be written by him for our closure or is this closure really just for me?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds to me like he really is done with her. He made two very logical, factual observations regarding that (you heard the phone call, you saw the angry email). So I'd say yes, this is for you. And it's FANTASTIC that he's willing to do this for you. It sounds to me like he doesn't need the letter, doesn't know what to put in it, but he recognizeds that YOU need the letter so he's asked you to write it - this way it will say whatever YOU need it to say. Then he can read it, sign it, and you can mail it. What a great step he is taking to earn your trust. Thank him for this!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After last Monday night's revelations (he still had feelings for her and always had), it's like he turned a corner. He's been very affectionate, attentive, converstational, and the SF has been great. Does this usually happen so suddenly? The "fog" lifts just like that and the husband returns?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've heard others talk of a "honeymoon period" at the beginning of recovery and I've experienced it myself. It's like you've both made a decision to move together in a positive direction, and it's such a relief that positive feelings run high. They will drop and fluctuate, so expect that.

It's kind of like joining a new gym or health club. At first you're so excited with the new environment, the workout clothes, and you're all hyped up and focused on your goals of a healthier self. Then the work sets in and you're doing great, you're up for it, the goal is worth it. Then you're tired, or you get a cold, and you lose your enthusiasm a little bit. But you give yourself a pep talk and make yourself focus on the goal again, and you force yourself to get back in the groove. You look in the mirror and sometimes you're pleased and sometimes you're depressed because you don't see changes or they don't come quickly enough. But if you persevere and keep forcing yourself to look at your goal, eventually two years will have passed, you'll be in grand shape, you'll have a new lifestyle, and you'll be much better for your efforts.

Thanks for the support. I guess I blew off his invitation to write the letter because I thought he should do it. Now I'm a little afraid of suggesting it again - although I really think I need it.
Does the "fog" really lift this quickly?