when i confessed, it was basically the physical aspect of it. he says 2 1/2 yrs sounds like a relationship not just a PA. how do i explain it all. we are talking 2 1/2 yrs!!

do i tell him, when it first started i believed God put this person in my life to help me thru this terrible time in my life (i.e. while going thru divorce, because that is what i had thought was the plan) (i am sorry if this stmt hurts other BSs, i do not mean to hurt you, i know this is a terrible thing to hear me say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

do i tell him, this person listened to me whenever i wanted to talk over the computer and so i felt less lonley because of it.

do i tell him, this person made me laugh when i wanted to cry?

do i tell him, this person let me cry in his arms, told me i was safe there, it was just he and i for at least the moment?

do i tell him, i helped this person buy a hampster? (this is because he heard the details about how we bought a hampster for my son, and it reminded him of owning a hampster when he was young and next thing i know, i'm going to pet store with him to help him get set up)

do i tell him, i watched this person's cat and hampster and brought in the mail for him while he was on vacation.

do i tell him, about the few times we went out for sushi? (before then, my H and I had sushi only once in our lifetimes, when we were in CA visiting some friends.)

do i tell him, about the music interests we shared? (My renewed interest in going to concerts was sparked by hearing about all the concerts he went to. We never went to a concert together, one time, we were both at the same concert (me with my son, he with friends) but we did bump into each other (we did not want to bump into each other!!))

do i tell him, about all the CDs he burnt for me, the music we listened to while together? (I got to really liking Dave Matthews band due to this person, i had just bearly heard of the band right before we met. H and i subseqently went to 2 Dave Matthews band concerts.)

do i tell him, we watched Shrek on valentines day 2002 because i was so sad about marriage problems? Shrek became one of my favorite movies that my 9yr old son (with my H's help) bought for me for xmas of 2002.

do i tell him, how this person and i watched a documentary on 911 and was deeply moved by the intensity of it?

do i tell him, this person and i started to exercise together but it immediately fell apart due to time constraints.

do i tell him, this person was 14yrs younger than me? (H has never asked).

do i tell him, this person is a recovering alcholic? (he was 3 yrs sober when we met)

do i tell him, this person shared with me his life story, his struggles, his hopes, his regrets, his fears?

do i tell him, this person listened to me about anything and everything?

do i tell him, this person and i told each other we thought we would of made an excellent couple if our lives were more on the same stage of life. (although personally i never really thought about that too much, it was not worth the emotional energy, it was unrealistic and that was that, OP agreed.)

i have told him we never said i love you to each other. and that is the truth. i have told him how this person and i always stated that what was between us was physical only, that we were just using each other. and that is the truth.

but even though that was always said, i did view this person as a friend too. we were very up front about it all. i wanted to feel cared about, he wanted a pretend g/f, it worked so to speak and i just didn't care that it was all wrong.

at the beginning it brought me so much relief, i was hooked. so even though it went from relief to a massive amount of turmoil as i was becoming more and more confused about the possiblity of marriage continueing, i could not break free. it felt more honest than anything in my life ever felt. we were physicall only, we openly admitted it. and i just closed my eyes to the ugilness of it.

please don't tell me to just be honest... we are talking about 2 1/2 year relationship, no matter how i tried, how could i really tell him everything???

how do i know what to share? he does not want to ask specific questions, he just wants me to tell him everything. i fear this will just make everything so much harder for him. now everytime my son wants to watch Shrek, it would be a hurtful thing for my H. what good does any of this do??? i want to be honest, i really do.

advice appreciated.

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

I think you should be honest with your husband - if he wants all the details start by printing off this post - these are the things you remember sharing with the OP - be an open book - if he needs to ask questions let him - maybe you will remember other things. Be as honest as you can - tell him everything you remember

Honestly it sounds more than PA - you obviously shared more than just sex, by sharing all this with your husband it will help him heal, if you hold back and try and sweep everything under the rug it won't work and your recovery will be much longer (speaking from experience)-
good luck - Sandy

thanks sandy. it just does not make sense. it seems like H will just end up having more triggers to have to deal with. i appreciate your sharing.

My opinion as a bs is that I would want to know the events that are triggers for you also. Meaning these things you wrote are triggers that give you the warm fuzzies about another person. Share them and they become "less" powerful. Yes they are more triggers for him maybe???, but can you imagine the number of false triggers he has because he doesn't know. For me I have triggers not related to H but to my best friend who was ow. Everything has some connection to her. I would like him to share his triggers and I share mine so we can get past them.

Obviously, 2.5 years is a relationship.

Here's my two cents. Tell him the basics...that you talked a lot, that he met certain ENs for you, made you feel less alone, etc. I would not get into every little detail, unless asked. But I would not hesitate to answer all questions honestly...it may hurt, but honesty leads to feeling safer in the long run.

Kathi

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: kam6318 ]</small>

FL:

This just brings up the memory of my W hiding her A from me for 7 years...

Honestly, it's not up to YOU to decide if these things will be a trigger for your H. If you hold back to try to "protect him" then you are just treating him like a child. If I were in his shoes, I would be very upset and wonder why you "continue to hide things from me."

Just my $0.02

Todd

thank you for the replies, more than anything i want my H to feel safe.

I have not wanted to keep things from him, it's just so much, it seems impossible to tell him everything. i'm not meaning to hold back, i have tried to tell tell him what is important. but there lies the problem, "what is important" is a subjective thing.

talk about triggers, your name is OM name, no offense meant, but my stomach is not feeling good now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

FL:

Read as much as you can off this site, get the books, read them and be as honest as you possibly can. I know from my stand point, my imagination was my own worst enemy. If I didn't know then I imagined the worst.

Also, check out Joseph's letter. There are passages else where in the discussion threads that have it, but it's also located at the following web address: http://www.dearpeggy.com/com023.html

When being open and honest with your H, start slowly. It takes time to process and I think you're thinking that it will be overwhelming to him (and it very well could be). Give him as much or little as he can take and ask him to tell you when it gets too much.

Good luck and God Bless!

Hi,

Actually, it helps me to hear from the WS's POV how you are afraid to tell him more details because you want to protect him from triggers. Please be aware though that from your BH's POV it may seem more like you're just trying to protect yourself from teh consequences of telling all (whether or not that's true). I do know from personal experience AND from what the MB principles state, that it is necessary to give the BS any and all info they ask for in order for full recovery.

I agree with the poster who said:

"My opinion as a bs is that I would want to know the events that are triggers for you also. Meaning these things you wrote are triggers that give you the warm fuzzies about another person. Share them and they become "less" powerful. Yes they are more triggers for him maybe???, but can you imagine the number of false triggers he has because he doesn't know."

There is no way for you to protect the BS from having fears and hurts from triggers. The triggers WILL come - whether they are because they know info or have to guess.

Here are a couple of links that might help you understand the BS's NEED to know:

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com027.html

http://www.dearpeggy.com/com023.html

It is very common for WS's to want to get around this NECESSARY step to recovery. And while it may be commendable to at least be motivated by wanting to protect the BS (instead of merely wanting to avoid more embarrassment and problems), you will need to give your spouse all the info he needs and then stand by him while he deals with it.

Isn't this one of the things the WS should agree to do before the BS ends Plan B? IMO it's similar to the resistance some WS's have to the no contact with OP, they may have reasons they don't want to follow that crucial step but it simply has to be done.

<small>[ April 27, 2004, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

FL,
You know my story and from my perspective I have not pressed for details because I want to get to recovery and feel those questions will be dealt with later. I do see a positive aspect to this and it lies in forgiveness. Confessing the depth of your relationship will give your H the opportunity to forgive you. I really think that forgiveness will help you and him. You may need to think about forgiving him also for the rejection you felt before the A. It is really freeing.

I know about the fog talk, does your H? Does he understand the lack of clear thinking that the A brings? The addictive nature ot it all? That knowledge helps me to cope with the pain of the A. I do believe you need to be honest with him and answer his specific questions. I think unloading your soul, with every minute detail, to him would be detrimental to your recovery. Read SAA because radical honesty is addressed there.

Do you really have to give the minute details that will become triggers? Probably not, but if you do, those triggers will eventually fade. But just remember that they will last a lifetime. Think about your relationships prior to your M. There are triggers that bring back those memories, but since you are emotionally detached, you no longer have feelings for that person. So let him lead the discussion and ask the questions. If he can ask questions, he will drill down as far as he is comfortable. Then he decides when to stop. Giving him all the details in a raw fashion does not let him control what he wants to know.

He is trying to reconcile a 2.5 year PA with the obvious fact that there was a deeper relationship then you have let on to. When he gets enough info, he will quit asking. He is trying to make sense out of something that is not rational. He is trying to see why it went on so long. When you do tell him certain things, try to be reassuring and let him know how wrong it was and you are sorry. Does he know that there are still lingering feelings for the OM? Your H needs to understand the anatomy of an A to help him reconcile it.

Please pray before your discussion and just be as open and honest as he needs you to be. Let him lead it and just give straight answers. I really pray this goes well for you and him.

Christ's Love,
Roman

Finally Learning,

Here is a link to a thread in wich I posted a synopsis of a book called Tempted Women.

It describes the process that WW go through. It talks about the phases of an A for a married woman. It also describes what the OM is like. It's honest. I liked it because my W is till vague on certain aspects I get the old "I can't remember". It helped me understand what she was thinking. It also confirmed what I had suspected about the OM.

FWW have found it helpful. They agree with most everything. MrsX liked it and KiwiJ printed it out and showed it to her H.

Hope it helps. Not sure if the book is still in print. I got it at the local library.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=027838;p=4#000055

Also look in GQII for the Cwmac thread you'll see MrsX's and KiwiJ's responses.

cwmac

I agree with kathi's advice earlier.

DO NOT dump this post on your H.

What has worked for my wife and I is an agreement:

I will honestly answer any question she has about the affair. No sugar coating, no embellishment. No more, no less.

This put her in control. Control is something she needed to feel. It let her decide if she was ready to hear a certain fact. To this day, I am quite surprised about the things she has chosen NOT to ask about. If I had told her some of the things I thought she would've wanted to know, it would've done nothing but hurt her more.

I would highly recommend you make the same agreement with your H. I think dumping all this on him will serve no purpose but to put him on a rollercoaster he can't get off of.

Low

FL,

You said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...it seems like H will just end up having more triggers to have to deal with... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes true in the short term but it will help recovery in the long term IMHO. That's the way it was for me. You can't change history but you need to deal with it.

I worry about the H of FWS who never ask any questions. Are they just sweeping everyting under the mental rug? Yes! Will it come boiling out in the future? Probably. Maybe these types of BHs are just quietly planning revenge.

I actually think it's a good sign that he's starting to ask you. Don't reward his positive steps forward with the typical FWS vague responses, lies of ommission (to save his feelings) or the perrenial "I really don't remember."

cwmac

Hi

Although it might hurt at the begining...
I'm up to print this post and show him...

Why? Because it would be good for him to see where he wa not meeting your needs with simple and practical examples.

It's hard to fill those needs if you don't know were you did wrong. I think it would help in your recovery.

Also it might be good for him to do a list of the thing he need from you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and work together on that list.

You need to tell him everything. Show honesty in your relationship and see the effects it brings. It may be difficult, but then he will gradually regain his trust in you. Men who are willing to break a marriage apart and become involved with married women generally only think of themselves. Those women are only objects to them who provide companionship and sexual gratification. Hopefully by now you have already seen this. Please, never ever again say or think that God put that man in your way. The devil did it to tempt you, just as he did to tempt Eve. Imagine that that man was the fruit and you took it. Dear lady, be honest with yourself and your husband. You probably do not realize all the pain that he must be going through.

Hi FL,

1) I'd answer anything he asks
2) I'd tell him anything I thought was important

It's 'not important' that he knows you developed interest in certain recording artist (or food) via OM, as long as you arent emotionally tied to these songs (food) because of OM! Do you see what I mean? Your H doesnt need to be triggered by songs on the radio or sushi if YOU'RE ok with them (not triggered). Unless he asks.

Your H does need to know about the EN's this guy met: conversation, admiration, rec companionship... Those seem to be most of your list, have you noticed? Those are important!

2.5 years is a lot to wade through. Keep it simple, there's just too much. Just my 2 cents- Dru

recovering H, thanks for the link to Joseph's letter. i had read it before, while i was trying to get to the point of confessing. i have recalled it many times since then. the description of having 400 random pieces missing and having no access to the picture is very powerful for me. i love puzzles but i very much rely on the picture and i trust all peices are there.

meremortal,

i agree with the following too: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My opinion as a bs is that I would want to know the events that are triggers for you also. Meaning these things you wrote are triggers that give you the warm fuzzies about another person. Share them and they become "less" powerful. Yes they are more triggers for him maybe???, but can you imagine the number of false triggers he has because he doesn't know. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">although i don't really have any warm fuzzies about the other person anymore. i have some lingering confustion that creeps in, but not warm fuzzies.

hi roman, thanks for the post, as always, you help me so much. i know it has not been all that long but boy i sure do wish it could somehow go away!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may need to think about forgiving him also for the rejection you felt before the A. It is really freeing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i really believe i have done that. i think some triggers can put me back there some but not to a point that i feel hurt/angry like i used to. honestly, it was the ability to finally forgive all the hurts from the past that allowed me to get hope back. I hit a major low last nov, i was so angry all the time. I finally realized what i needed more than anything was to let go of the anger. and that is what i started praying for. just to let go of the anger. and when it happened, it was very powerful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know about the fog talk, does your H? Does he understand the lack of clear thinking that the A brings? The addictive nature ot it all? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no. i have talked a little about feeling addicted to the whole thing. he does not get it. he really is NOT interested in reading any books. i have asked a few times. i cannot push him on this any further.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do believe you need to be honest with him and answer his specific questions. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he does not have specific questions, he just wants me to tell him "everything".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So let him lead the discussion and ask the questions. If he can ask questions, he will drill down as far as he is comfortable. Then he decides when to stop. Giving him all the details in a raw fashion does not let him control what he wants to know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i wish he would lead the discussion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He is trying to reconcile a 2.5 year PA with the obvious fact that there was a deeper relationship then you have let on to. When he gets enough info, he will quit asking. He is trying to make sense out of something that is not rational. He is trying to see why it went on so long. Your H needs to understand the anatomy of an A to help him reconcile it.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i can understand that. i don't really like it!!! but i absolutely understand what you are all telling me. so i will do my best.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does he know that there are still lingering feelings for the OM? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no. and now i will try to be in denial by saying... there really aren't any lingering feelings. i don't know how true or not that stmt is. i don't want there to be any. however i have posted here on certain days saying he is on my mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> so how can i be trusted to be able to answer that question today.

wow, now you guys are responding faster than i can keep up. i was only up to roman's post when i responded last!!!

first let me be clear... i NO LONGER think God put this person in my life to help me. But that is very much what i thought 2.5 yrs ago.

low, i like your idea of making an agreement up front. this lets him know i am up to telling him anything (of course, i'm not saying I want to tell him everything, it is painful for me too.)But I WILL do it!!! I want to do all in my power to help fix this mess i created. I really really do!!!

matilide, i understand your point about the details helps him see what ENs were being met. but you also have to remember, H has worked for 2.5 yrs trying to improve our relationship. he does not know the terminology as stated here, but he had learned to meet so many of the ENs he didn't meet before.

formerpreacher, of course i cannot know his pain exactly. probably not even close. but i do understand it is horrible.

Drucilla, you make sense. what you are saying is kind of the same thing that km4 said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My opinion as a bs is that I would want to know the events that are triggers for you also. Meaning these things you wrote are triggers that give you the warm fuzzies about another person. Share them and they become "less" powerful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi FL~

I'm with kam on this. Start with the basics. Where your head was--EN's beig met, etc. As you start to open up, I'm sure he will interject with questions. From there, you can get more specific if he so chooses.

I think you should have a plan. If he would agree, possibly have him write down exactly what he would like to know. Do this in a neutral place. Not in your bedroom--always protecting that for the two of you.

Glad to know your x-om doesn't have the same name as mine--was freaking a tad, they sounded one in the same!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Been thinking of you, and trying to keep up with your happenings.

Take good care.
~ad

hi ad,

i was wondering how you are doing. you really helped a lot when i first confessed. i hope you know that, hugs to you and a huge thank you.

as you can see, we are doing pretty good, considering...

and thanks for the laugh: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Glad to know your x-om doesn't have the same name as mine--was freaking a tad, they sounded one in the same!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no disrespect to anyone but sometimes i bit of levity is so helpful!!!