deut,

Actions do speak louder than words. You need to make your actions speak clearly to Dylan. And heaven forbid, you're in no position to be questioning her actions---right now I see you as the worse offender. You're not "emotionally fogged" right now---you're just going for quick fixes.

I hope this counselor can help you through it. No excuses---just do the right thing.

I don't even know where to start. If I reply line by line, I'll be here forever, rehashing the same stuff. Stuff I already know... stuff I already feel. Still, I'm here at MB for a reason, and you all took the time to post on this thread and deserve a response.

I also believe that I should be held accountable for my actions. And I for one, will step up to the plate. I made a mistake. A big mistake, but that doesn't mean I'm a write off.

Ark, you said I had a 'victim' mentality. Well, I'm going to try to end that. I take responsibility for my actions. I will face the consequences and try to salvage what I can.

You said I make a mockery of marriage and commitment. That is overly harsh and unfair. Dating Mary was not an affair. Dylan had abandoned this marriage. The ink was dry when I walked out the door. Her lack of interest in moving forward and trying to save our family led me to believe that I should move on. I was foolish. I was wrong. I was very wrong and very foolish. But, when I realized how wrong I was and how foolish, I took what steps I could to get back on track.

Now we have a similar situation. I screwed up. This time in a very big way. Again, I will admit I did wrong. Stand up and own up, and try to figure out what steps I can take to get this back on track. Even though right now it seems impossible, I will not give up. Mockery indeed.

I am far from being complete, whole and healthy. Is this an excuse? I do not weild it as such. There are reasons for our actions and I do not use the reasons as justifications. I try to analyze them and learn from them so that hopefully I can grow and not make the same mistakes again. There is no justification for my actions. I will not try to turn it back on Dylan. I will, however look at my motivations and own them too. Face them, so that if/when they come up again, I'm equipped to handle them in a more positive manner.

I will never forget my original consent to Dylan and OP. Never. That is another big mistake I get to own up to.

And I too expected myself to be further along. And I am thoroughly disgusted by my actions. And now I have to figure out what to do next.

Odyssey

Maybe, after all these years Dylan too has been feeling like "I don't believe you anymore".

I think that is a fair assumption. Both of us have given one another ample reason to feel that way. Ample reason. In fact, that is such a profoundly true statement, that I can't think of anything else to say in reply.

Maybe she is seeing your self-destructive patterns and is considering whether or not she wants that in her life.

Another nail hit squarely on the head. In fact, I had decided quite surely that I don't want that in my life either. Yet I'm still doing it. On the other hand, I'm trying to overcome it. Despite my recent blunder, in other areas I am overcoming it. I wish it were as simple as seeing the the truth and snapping my fingers and making it part of my reality. I struggle daily with so many of these issues that oftimes I'm hanging by a thread. But what's my option? Give up? Accept that I'm a complete loser and a failure and put a bullet in my head? I don't think so. I will keep trying. I am seeking professional help. I've kept drugs out of my daily life. I'm paying my bills and cleaning my life up. Bit by bit, day by day. What more can I expect from myself?

Maybe she is as tired of the struggle as you are.

Maybe. But I am still trying. I screw up, I admit it right away and try to fix it. I'm sick of the damn struggle. Sick to death of it, but I still face it. And when I fail, I don't wallow in it for months on end. I get back up, own it and try to recover. I'm sick of it, but I refuse to quit.

What safe haven have you provided for her in your said plan A? What are you doing here, if you are not ready to make the commitment to repair the damage YOU have caused?

What am I doing here? Trying to stay on track. Trying to find support and understanding and guidance. As for the safe haven in my said Plan A, I'm not angry outbursting. I'm not disrespectful judging. I'm trying like he!! not to make selfish demands. To the point where for 4 months I've been living as a single parent in complete limbo while my wife is doing God knows what with OW with no end in sight. (oops, disrespectful jugdgement...)

If poeple here who have no personal investment in your affairs are frustrated and ready to give up on helping a person who cannot help themselves (YOU),

Well, in MB terms I've fouled things up twice over 6 months. I guess that means I'm a complete wash-up. Sorry about the tone, but I'm trying here. I'm facing pain I never even imagined and all the while trying to keep a brave face on for my son as I tell him not to worry, that things will work out just fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> You want to give up, give up. I won't.

I can only imagine, what it has been like for Dylan. I'm not excusing her actions, but I can certainly understand better and empathize with her.

uh-huh. Well, if Dylan would spend any time here, except to drop in and blast me, you wouldn't have to imagine. And, btw, you are doing just fine, with that statement, in excusing her actions. (oops, another disrespectful judgement...)

Peace,

still looking for some...

I need to breathe for a bit. I know you all took the time to post because you care. I'm struggling with my famous victim mentality and I'm going to take a few moments to regain my composure.

dewt

Dylan

I am so so sooooo sorry for my actions. An apology does not excuse them, I know. But truly I am. I regret it. I wish it never happened. If I could go back in time, I would.

It has been posted that actions speak louder than words, and I beg you to consider all my OTHER actions before you make any final decisions based on this one. I screwed up. I know it. I admit it. I so don't know what to do about it.

I will respect your wishes not to call though I want to, so that you can hear how truly badly I feel about what I have done. If you call to speak with mini, I will not take advantage of that to speak even one word to you. If and when you want to speak of this, I will be completely open and honest and answer any questions you have.

do not take that with your usual fatalist mentality...

Ok.

I really thought those 2 good talks we had this week helped put a more positive spin...

Baby steps, I know. I'm just so afraid. And so used to having 'good talks' which for you may be a big step but for me keep me in total limbo. I'm not trying to scare you off future talks, but just letting you know how I feel.

I see they did not.

I love you, but no, they did not. Radical honesty time. I'm afraid to feel hope after these little talks. I've spent months hanging on your every word and hoping that they would lead somewhere... and they never do. As long as you are there, and have no concrete plans to rejoin us, as long as you are still seeing OW and refuse to have no-contact, and do not wish to commit to restoring our marriage, how can I feel hope?

4 months ago, the slightest breath from you would fill me with hope. 3 months ago, I would read all kinds of things into the things you said and would feel hope. 2 Months ago, I started to despair and started to fear hope because losing it again and again was just too painful. One month ago, you got jeolous of my girlfriend and I felt hope. Now, I try not to feel hope because it just leads to me wanting something firmer, something concrete... and I'm afraid to ask for it because it pressures you...

I work tonight, and yes, it will take the 6 hours to (insert calming word of choice) so that I can function.

it is sooooooo hypocritical of me, I am so very aware...

I do not judge you. I hate what you are doing, but don't hold it against you. I'm living in daily pain over this, but don't blame you. You are forgiven for your affair and I just want you back. I really want to build a good life with you. I know right now you may have a hard time believing that, but it is true. Soooooo true...

Also, I do not consider you being hurt by this to be hypocritical. You have the right to feel the way you do. Again, I'm sooooo sorry... I also know words all fail the magic prize right now, but what else can I do?

I have to go now.

I hope you will be back. In a previous thread, someone said, "It has to stop." And you agreed. I agreed. Let us now put that into action. Please come back and post here.

one question....

did he "discover"you two?

did the kids wake up to you two "cuddled up" in bed?

No. Firstly Mini and er... Maxi were up late watching movies. Secondly after I came to my sense and immediately got fully dressed. We did sleep in the same bed, but certainly not cuddled. It did not take long for my shame to set in and there was no cuddling.

Again. My shame is complete and profound. I am beyond remorseful and sincerely want to make whatever amends I can.

dewt

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: dewt ]</small>

Dewt..

I am not trying to be harsh or unfair...
but it's not about being fair...is it?
If it was...and since NONE of this situation is fair...none of it would be happening...

Dating Mary was not an affair. Dylan had abandoned this marriage.

Dewt...right there....
do you really believe that....that it was not affair..

Because if you do...stop all of this other stuff...and work on the one singular issue until you process it logically and all the way through...

BS endure great hardship and pain...at the hand of their WS...and it is a great battle in the insanity to not change core values and beliefs REGARDLESS of their spouses actions...

one should try not to disregard honesty in their own universe...and to themselves...even when their spouse does differently...

your marriage has exactly as much value and meaning as YOU place on it REGARDLESS of your spouses actions.
regardless of the pain...that's the whole challenge of being a BS is it not...
that in the face of insanity and pain...you still strive for sanity and sanctuary....

and I get that is way way way way easy for me to type out....
and hugely difficult to live by...
but what you did with Mary regardless of your wife was and is an affair....

Can you see that all?

Dewt even if the marriage was over...
where did you value yourself enough to really process that loss and mourn it...
your actions were to just soothe and deny the pain of your wife's actions...

understandable...absolutely...
fair?
not at all...
not fair to you
not fair to your spouse
and mostly not fair to the woman you brought into your life to soothe your pain and hurt...without stopping long enough to heal....

Gods gift of love and intimacy are not superficial emotions...
they are profound gifts that demand upmost respect and gratitude....and need to navigated through slowly...

You need to move through this universe with each step you take in how it serves God, people you care about, and your own right to deep meaningful interactions....

You deserve that dewt...but you gotta believe in yourself enough to see and act it....

This is not about what a cad you are...
this is facing hurdles and pain that make you stronger each time you face one and overcome it...

I know you are hurting...
it is difficult to watch because it is at your own hands....
thats what makes this so difficult...

take a breath...
start moving slowly in paths the decrease all chaos from your life....

start with yourself
start with your environment...

ark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

knewbetter,

To put it in a nutshell, you managed to screw over both wife 1 and wife 2 and the BF in one fell swoop.

Correction. I managed to screw myself over. My son too. I have potentially screwed him over but good with this one. Wife 1 knew exactly what she was doing. Wife 2 I hurt, and badly at that. The BF, well ok, him too I screwed over.

What was that REALLY all about?

On the surface, instant gratification. Responding to a basic need, that should have been over-ridden by integrity and self control. Under the surface, this is something I plan on exploring in counselling. Maybe what has been said on this thread is correct, that I was trying to punish Dylan, maybe I was on some level just trying to bring this hell to an end, even if it's not the end I want... I dunno. I plan on finding out though. I have much to think about.

Having sex with someone you have no romantic or sexual feelings for is AWFUL, and considering that she was a WW in your marriage, really puts her in her place doesn't it?

Actually, just to get the story straight, she wasn't a wayward. She was an abusive psycopath in our marriage, and for many years after. Hence the issues that Dylan has with her, as Dylan stuck with me through about half of that time.

A real screw you Dylan, NOW look what you made me do!

Dylan did not make me do this. I did it on my own. My decision. My choice. My fault. My responsibility.

The email you sent to the BF sounded something like an defense attorney letter. It really bothered me for some reason.

I hope he doesn't feel the same way, as it was totally sincere. It's just the way I write, particularily when I'm overwhelmed on an emotional level. And no, he hasn't responded.

If I were writing a book, this would be a major plot twist. The truth really can be stranger than fiction, don't you think?

A friend once told me I should write my life story. "One thing though," he said, "You should change some bits so that people would believe it."

My question would be what would be the main character's (you, Dewt) MOTIVATION in all this? That's my real question to you.

My psychologist asked me this same question yesterday. I answered, I want my family back together. I want to build a good life with my wife. I want to have a good life with her.

My actions don't show this. I know. Over the years, they haven't, although not always in this drastic a manner. It has to stop. Now. Hence the expensive psychologist. The time at MB. Despite my screw ups, I really do want things to get better.

What's done is done, I suppose and you'd better hang on because it will be a very bumpy ride for you and Dylan. Hopefully, it's just another setback but not THE dealbreaker. We'll be thinking of you and Dylan both tonight, Dewt.

Thank you. I sooooo appreciate that. You have no idea.

Cali,

Thank you for holding off on your first thoughts.

We always have a choice. We don't always make good choices. Sometimes we suffer the consequences, and sometimes we are shown grace and mercy.

This is what I'm praying for now. I realize I will have to face consequences either way, but I still am praying and hoping for grace and mercy.

You can't change what you DID, but you have total power over your future choices. Choose. Don't let life happen. Pick up the reins and be responsible, not regretful.

Well, that's a lesson I keep learning over and over. In some ways I'm improving. Apparently I'm still capable of making major errors. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm doing what I can to understand and correct this.

Blessed TIME,

It shouldn't be considering the fact that Dylan is still with the Other Woman , and she had sex with her in your home while you were there, and it didn't matter that she knew she was hurting you!

Selfishly and desperately, I'm hoping she takes this into consideration before she decides to write me off.

Ummm, doesn't that mean that Dylan is a lesbian?
If so, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever of you and she making a good marriage!

I don't believe Dylan is a lesbian. I believe that this was an 'exit affair' and it only happened with a woman because it could never have happened with a man.

Our chances of having a good marriage depend not only on the two of us deciding that our family is worth saving but on each of us making a PROFOUND COMMITMENT to alter our lifestyle so that we are building our life together rather than just blundering through it, from disaster to disaster.


Odyssey,

Do you remember a line in the bible that goes something like this... "let he who has not sinned cast the first stone"?

Yes. Funny that line should come up in this thread, as I am being stoned pretty severly here, but whatever... I deserve it. I was giving advice and guess what, I feel exactly the kind of shame that I was talking about in that post. Not to mention a fair bit of despair as I contemplate the possible consequences of my actions.

Where is YOUR personal integrity? YOU know what YOU have to do... so what the H**L,s your problem... why do you stray?

Why did I stray? Because for a moment, I was lost. I try to stay found, and on course, and for the most part, I do a good job. I made a mistake. A big one. I'm facing up to it now and despite my fear that it's hopeless, am committed to getting back up and trying to do what's right.

As for what my problem is. Well, I'm working on that. I suspect that there may be more than one.

hope4future,

Thank you for coming.

I think you need to forget about the marriage right now and just work on your OWN personal issues.

I've considered that. Heavily. I am working on my own personal issues. I had my first session yesterday with my psychologist and I have every intention of dealing with whatever it is that I have to deal with.

I still have a life to build though, and I want Dylan to be a part of it. She has issues too, and some issues, we have to work on separately, but many we can work on together. My hope is that we can figure this mess out and come up with a plan that will allow us to do both.

I can honestly say that if I'd been in a more secure position emotionally, that I would never have even been tempted this weekend. I don't seek to shift blame here, I'm stating a fact. I'm human. I was tested. I failed. Does that mean I'm going to give up? No. Nor do I feel that the solution is entirely up to Dylan... It is up to me, and I will pursue it, but I still want my family back together.

Because whether the marriage ever turns around or not, you've got to continue to live your life.

Yes. I know this. And whichever way this goes, I intend to do that. And to grow and heal in the process...

You and your wife have serious issues and instead of moving in together or continually putting bandaids over the problem in order to 'do what's best' for your children. The best thing the two of you could do for your children would be to fix yourselves.

I agree. I also feel that we have to do this indivually and together (in the event that we want to remain married). I'm not looking for bandaids, and am serious about having many lasting changes for the better. The key is in a good solid plan, and then following that plan.

Don't you agree?

I've said this to Dylan, and posted it here elsewhere, and still believe it. We can grow together or grow apart. I wish to grow together. I think and believe that is what life is about. Particularily in our case. Our issues as individuals took a lifetime to develop. If we try to stay apart while we resolve them, it will be a very long time before we are together again. And in that case, why be married at all? What happened to 'for better or worse'? What about facing these issues together, as a team? Even if that means separate trips to the psychologist?

dewt

Folks, I'm all typed out for the evening...

I will return tomorrow eve to finish replying...

Thanks again for taking the time and care to post...

Forgive me if my tone took to harshness. I'm particularily angry with myself and trying hard not to let it bleed into my posts... not sure how successful I was...

g'night.

dewt

Hi dewt,

Your history with MB is long and some of it is still confusing to me, but it is correct that you were the WS when you first came to MB? The reason I ask this is.....

Your initial current focus seemed to be on GF. You dumped her to work on your marriage. Now you boinked someone else with no emotional attachment--and your current focus is on that. I believe you that you want to work out the marriage, but I wonder if you want to do that from the position of WS instead of BS.

Also, this is confusing because there have been references to the ink being dry and also references to OW's for both of you. Is the ink dry (divorced), is there wet ink (divorce papers filed), or are there OWs for both of you (married)?

dewt, I wish my FWH was the recipient of what people are telling you. It is a gift--a gift my FWH will not get because he will not read here. What will you do with this gift dewt? Anything?

Take care

Dewt,

I don't condone what you did, and I do agree with the others who said your dating Mary was also an affair. You are still married, no matter what condition the M is in.

But in a strange way (and this doesn't make it right or acceptable!), I do understand how it could have happened.

I am a very weak person. I have struggled and done my share of stupid things over the course of my 19 year marriage.

I had an A 14 years ago. And furthermore, I've never actually told him I couldn't talk to him, and though there is nothing more than friendship at this point and hasn't been for years, we last visited over the phone less than a year ago. He is happily married and raising horses, and I'm very happy for him, but I now understand how wrong it was to have maintained contact even when H asked me not to a long time ago. And I also understand how dangerous. But my need to feel wanted and accepted came before my H's feelings. Cruel, yes.

I don't believe it's right to get drunk anymore. But twice since this A started, I've done just that and done it up well, complete with hugging the porcelain god and lying on the bathroom floor for hours. Did someone hold a gun to my head? Did I set a good example for WH? I was with him at mutual person's house.

I also don't believe it's right to get stoned and hadn't in years. However, was with WH a few months ago at another friend's house. Out came friend's pipe, it got passed to me, and I indulged. Another great example for WH and of my Christian beliefs! Again, no gun to my head.

I am hypocritical when I tell him he can't. And it's not even that I want or need to. It's generally just because I don't want to feel out of place. I want to be accepted. And this situation I'm in with the A is messing with my mind and I'm a lot more prone to stupid things.

And the infidelity incidents. No guns to my head there either. And there have been a couple situations when out of town at company meetings. Not totally close...but a bunch of drunken people were hanging out together and flirting and playing with fire. Some of them got burned. I was just somehow coherent enough to go to my room before I got in trouble. But again, no guns to my head. Why do I do it? Why do I need so badly to be accepted?

That's what I am working on with my IC--learning to respect myself and like myself for who I am.

My point with this rambling post is that I think my issue with a lack of self-respect could easily manifest itself in problems with infidelity if I didn't keep a close rein on it and constantly ask myself if it is right in God's eyes. I know it's not right. I don't want to cheat on my H. I didn't set out to cheat on him 14 years ago. But I know I am emotionally driven and tend to do first, and think later. And pair my emotions, my lack of self-respect, and my need for acceptance together and you have a ticking time bomb.

I wonder if you don't work a little that way, too.

Pray long and hard for you and Dylan. Pray that God will somehow use this situation for good of some kind. And then DON'T DO IT AGAIN-EVER!!

LL

<small>[ April 29, 2004, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

While I'm on the subject of being confused, can anyone explain this to me.....

Is this correct--dylan's thing with OW was with dewt's consent? And then he changed his mind at some point?

If they are married, wouldn't that make dylan's thing a POJA? Wouldn't it be necessary for BOTH of them to be enthusiastic about a revised POJA on the matter before the old POJA goes out of effect?

Thanks to anyone who can explain this. I understand a lot of MB concepts when I read them, but how to apply them in life is where I get lost.

I have been here for almost 3 years now and this has to be the most twisted situation I have seen.

On one hand....I can see the relationship with "Mary" as I did this myself....a date while seperated. BUT....and this is a BIG BUT.....I was over my marriage at the point and on my way to filing for divorce. I saw my marrige as over.

I'm not sure how one can "date" someone while seperated from their WS and at the same time want their marrige to work. Doesn't make sense to me.

As for sex with the ex.

Ever noticed how the words sex and ex are so close to AX?

Sounds like the 2 of you are very self destructive people and you need work on yourselves before considering a relationship with anyone.

The original OW, Mary, your Ex....these are all affairs...and they are all bandaids.

Commit, commitment, committed. Variations of a word that neither of you has figured out yet.

I UNDERSTAND your wife has had real issues with you - that is evident by the few actions we DO know about, and probably moreso by what we haven't seen or heard yet. I UNDERSTAND that you get to feeling weak and confused. I do understand. But YOU knew better. You learned that lesson the FIRST time around, remember? So did she. You two missed something in the process.

Two halves generally make a whole. But not when it comes to people. Two incomplete people trying to get another person to fill their empty spaces makes for disaster. The two of you have shown that. If either of you were whole, you would not have NEEDED another person to get through life. If this OW is truly an exit affair for your wife, then she isn't any more 'whole' than you are. Because if the marriage was so bad again, she should have taken the same advice she's probably given others and GOTTEN DIVORCED. And if you were SURE your wife was finished with the marriage and you were READY to move on - GET A DIVORCE. But OBVIOUSLY YOU weren't done with the marriage yet. So Mary WAS an affair, she WAS a bandaid. I'd feel pretty bad for Mary, except that it was HER CHOICE to get involved with a still married man.

You see Dewt, this all hits pretty close to home and it infuriates me. We went through all this too. And yes, my husband did a bunch of online dating because I said I was done with the marriage. And we ended up trying again. And failing again. And then I was doing online talking with someone, and then he was seeing someone. Blah blah blah... We made a HUGE mess of things. But we LEARNED OUR LESSON. We know what committment means and we know if things start slipping again that adding another person to the mix will only make it worse! We both grew as people, and if we had to be we could be on our own and be ALONE. We're two WHOLE people now. And that's what makes our marriage GOOD. It makes us easier to fulfill our needs. Because we aren't nearly as needy. We aren't bottomless pits of need!

So I say AGAIN. At this point, your marriage isn't the issue. Neither you nor your wife should be seeing ANYONE else. Neither you nor your wife should be making marital decision. And I don't think you should live together. You need to learn how to be alone and still be ok. You each need to work on yourselves. FIX YOURSELVES FIRST. NO, I don't think you need to work together or you'll drift apart. At this point neither of you have anything to bring to the table but history and a child together. It's going to take more than that. Go build your personal 'dowry'. Fix yourself. Or you're doomed to a life of this painful drama - and it feel even worse years down the line when you see your son follow in your footsteps.

I'm at such a loss...


I have no words.


Dylan

but you do have a son...

somebody better step up to the plate...and cut the chaos....

move past the pain....

children need and thrive in stable environments...

not parental chaos...

ark

I am still confused.

Is Dylan living with the woman that she had sex with?

If this is true, that would be no different than your wife living with the OM.

Like I said I am confused.
And like Odyssey said you were so judgemental to me...pure hypocrosy Dewt!

'Just Learning' and 'Ark', I hope you NEVER come here and say you leaped (no one falls) into some sexual sin.
I don't think we here could handle that from you!
I think you know that we look up to you and respect your morals and your good advice!

Sincerely, Julie

Dewt,

I have something to say here but not enough time to say it ...

I've kept quiet the past couple of weeks with all your posts ... (mostly biting my tongue), but really can't on this one.

I will post later, when I have the time.

I'm at such a loss...

You are lost...
so what...
lots of people get lost....
you can get home....

but being lost is really just not a lot of fun...

Life is not supposed to be this difficult...
life is hard enough on its own..
and unfair enough on its own...

soul-loss where is your starting point...
where is your anchor..
you have to identify it...and "it" can change as time moves on..but you gotta start somewhere...

because this floundering to find yourself...
it's not working....

Look at everything that is chaotic in your life...and move to eliminate it..
look at every person in your life that brings you damage and move to eliminate it...
look at actions that beget chaos and move to eliminate it...

doesn't mean you get rid of all things permanantly...
doens't mean that you sever ties...
it means that move in directions that only bring you closer to your anchor...

my hope is that your son is your anchor...
but if it is...then the stakes are high on your own accountability to him....

I hope you post here...
I think you need someone to help you...
I hope you seek that someone out....

i always say dorothy went all over OZ searching for something that inside of her all along...

you deserve peace in this universe...

ARK

Pepperband

An accident is something like being hit by a car... you are right, this wasn't an accident. It was a choice. A bad choice. Beyond, that, you are completely wrong.

If I wanted to get out of my marriage, I had the perfect excuse when Dylan chose OW over me and our son. At any point since then, I could have said, "to he!! with this," and walked away. Heck, I even tried that once and realized I was wrong.

I screwed up. Period. Maybe there is some inner thing going on... probably is in fact... and if there is, I will face it in therapy and deal with it as best I can.

My integrity is still here, making me feel extremely badly about my actions. Making me fess up and tell the truth and face the music. That's where it is.

Nice try, indeed.

I guess here's my words of advice and support...

Don't jump off cliffs.

Now, there's some good advice. Thanks.

HunterFox

I know our situations have some similarities, and I appreciate you dropping in. No doubt this was one of the stupidest things I've ever done in my life. And I have seriously long list of stupid things...

a field of 2x4's...

commonly refered to as a forest... (not to make light of the situation, I just couldn't resist)

WTF were you thinking????

What was I thinking? Things like, 'Someone wants to have sex with me.' 'Someone finds me attractive.' 'Someone wants to make me feel good.' 'Someone wants me to make them feel good.'

I was thinking things like that. Excuses? No. Good reasons? No. Stupid, shallow, selfish thoughts they are. But you asked, and I'm answering honestly.

You have to live with your decisions.

It is with great despair that I realize this.

I only hope and pray that you never hear these words from your W. "You should have thought about that before you had sex with her"

I already have, even though she hasn't said them.

You need some heavy heavy prayer right now and when you go to sleep tonight have a serious talk to God and ask him to speak to your wife.

I do this every night. Guess what though, for the 4-5 nights leading up to Saturday, I'd neglected my prayers and readings. I was wrapped up in my move and worldy life. I could have used the support...

Again, thanks for dropping into this horrible thread.

K,

Actions do speak louder than words.

I know this. I screwed up and made a terrible choice. Hopefully the fact that I was honest and am here facing the music will count for something. I do not know that it will. I have little to no hope that it will, but I'm doing it anyway.

...you're in no position to be questioning her actions...

Her actions are the same now as they were last month, and the months before. I hate the role she has played in this. It has hurt me terribly and unbalanced me more than I could have ever imagined it would. Yes I question them. Constantly. Just because I screwed up, it does not justify her behaviours. On the other hand, up till now I've not angry outbursted nor made disrespectful judgements, nor have I made selfish demands other than to want to know what's up, what are her plans, etc... even that I've backed off from since the end of Feb.

right now I see you as the worse offender.

I have offended deeply and profoundly. I know this so very well. I could scarcely have chosen a deeper wedge to drive between us if I'd set about to do it on purpose.

You're not "emotionally fogged" right now---you're just going for quick fixes.

I beg to differ. I'm fried emotionally. I'm scared and lonely, abandoned and hurt beyond my wildest imaginings. I do not offer this up as an excuse or justification for my actions. I'm just arguing your point.

I hope this counselor can help you through it.

Me too. For the price I'm paying, he better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

No excuses---just do the right thing.

Yes. No excuses. I screwed up badly. I admit it. I know it. I own it. I'm resolved to do the right thing. I'm not sure what that is... What can I really do? Except have patience, be faithful, and pray alot.

Ark

I knew that was a bad thing to bring up. I don't want to get sidetracked by trying to label my relationship with Mary...

I will say it was a mistake. For many reasons, I should not have pursued that relationship. I should never have started it in the first place.

I don't want to get tied up in semantics. I'm not running from this issue. We can start up a new thread if you like, and you stand a good chance of changing my mind if you really have some good points, but here and now is not the time or place.

BS endure great hardship and pain...at the hand of their WS...and it is a great battle in the insanity to not change core values and beliefs REGARDLESS of their spouses actions...

I agree. It is a battle that has been raging in me since this whole thing began. I lost my vision momentarily and screwed up big. I can not change that, but I do know what's important to me, and will stand by that. As badly as I feel about what I did, I will not condemn myself eternally for one moment of stupidity, not when daily I fight the battle and win.

You speak of my victim mentatlity. I have enough people victimizing me without doing it to myself. It has to stop somewhere.

I face hurdles daily, heck, somedays, I face a hurdle an hour, and I overcome most of them... I am human though, and in some ways very frail and I stumble. I will not stay down though. I will get up and look in the mirror and face my failures and keep trying. What else can I do?

start moving slowly in paths the decrease all chaos from your life....

Yes. This I have been doing. In some respects too slowly, in others I've been pleasantly surprised by myself. I will keep on...

LovingBoundaries

Your history with MB is long and some of it is still confusing to me,

You and me both...

... but it is correct that you were the WS when you first came to MB?

Yes. I had a three month affair with a client in 1999. A month after D-day, Dylan discovered MB and we both pretty much jumped right in.

I believe you that you want to work out the marriage, but I wonder if you want to do that from the position of WS instead of BS.

That is an awesome insight. The more I think about it, the more the bells go off. In a way, I think you may be right. As a wayward, I felt horrible, but there were things I could do about it. I posted a heck of a loth that year, telling my story, learning from others and helping betrayed spouses to understand their waywards. As a Betrayed, going on 6 months now, I deal daily with being in a helpless limbo and that is unbearable for me...

Is the ink dry (divorced), is there wet ink (divorce papers filed), or are there OWs for both of you (married)?

We are common law. Married to each other based on the depth of our love and commitment to each other. There was never any ink. In some ways that simplifies things, in some ways, it doesn't. I considered her to be my wife. Now, I don't know if we are still married or not.

She has an OW. Her affair was with our roommate who was a girl. For the month of March, I had a girlfriend, but broke up with her when I realized this wasn't over.

I wish my FWH was the recipient of what people are telling you. It is a gift--a gift my FWH will not get because he will not read here. What will you do with this gift dewt? Anything?

I don't know that your FWH would have benefited from what I'm getting here. There is a lot of judgement and harsh crits. I take it because I know I did wrong, very wrong and I am hungry to own up to my mistake and face the music. I look for critism in my daily life because usually I don't take it personally but instead use it as a springboard for personal growth. Even so, it's been tough accepting all this. Part of my wants to scream that after all I've been through, and after all the integrity and patience and love I have shown, why aren't I allowed one stupid mistake without being trampled into the mud? I know enough to put that voice aside though. Even so, it is difficult.

Take care

I'm trying. Thanks.

Part of that is getting a good night's sleep because rest is very important to my ability to keep a stable mind.

Thanks all for baring with me as I get through my replies...

dewt

Hello Dewt,
Praying above all else that you are well. Ithink you misunderstood, my post the other day when I asked If we here at MB are ready to give up on you... how much more would Dylan. I was not saying for a minute that I was giving up or that others are, I was not judging you. I was simply begging the question in order for you to reflect.
I read your last post, and yes I agree, criticism is indeed difficult to take and one can be offended if tthis is not taken into context. I think it's pretty cool that poeple here invest themselves and their time to write to you, wehther the words be praise or criticism. It reflects a caring for you and your situation. It's not conditional upon whether or not you do things perfectly or whether or not you become a success story. I think it's like driving to a destination as a passenger on a long highway... along for the ride, smooth roads and pot holes, perfect sunny whether or storm. At least that's how i see things. the good stuff along with the bad stuff... it's all meant sincerely to help you.

Hope you wake up to some better days.

Peace & blessings

Odyssey

Dewt,

Although I can't say that I'm at a loss for words I'm not sure what I have to say will make one iota of difference.

I know you realize that I know a lot more of your and Dylan's history than the average poster on this board - more than even most or perhaps all the 'old timers'. I have also spent some time this evening and ovet the last few weeks reviewing some of your previous posts since January when you left Dylan, and the inconsistencies you have posted have just made me shake my head.

Now don't get me wrong. I am NOT in any way condoning Dylan's behavior, what she did was wrong, having an affair under any circumstances is wrong, you know it, she knows it, everybody that posts on this board knows it (Arik even knew it - but we don't need to go there now).

Now as for your part in all this...
You know know darn good and well what the state of your marriage was ... there were sooo many issues that had never been resolved, and as for Dylan not communicating to you what her needs were so that her 'love bank' wasn't running on empty for the last for years of your recovery - I think that we both know that is a load of malarky. Her number one need was to have a grown-up for a husband. Somebody who would step up to the plate and take care of things and be the head of the household (that doesn't mean ruling the roost or being the king of the castle either). Somebody who would sacrifice a bit of himself and his time so their child would have food on the table and oil in the tank to keep the house warm during the cold winter months. I realize that your work is seasonal and there are several months that you couldn't work doing your chosen profession but you could have done any number of things for those winter months to hold the wolves at bay. However you did not.

You have posted that Dylan's OW came into your lives and she and Dylan approached you about the whole 3 some thing .... I don't buy it. You were trying and hinting at 3 somes and spicing up your's and Dylan's sex life long before the OW came into the picture. My belief is that you saw the opportunity when you could see that the OW and Dylan were establishing a good and deep friendship and tried to play off of that and then when it backfired your world turned upside down and you didn't know what to do and so took mini and ran, leaving Dylan with a debtload that you helped create, in a house filled with your stuff.

You have never from what I have read here been actively in Plan A ... the words come out of your mouth (or out of your keyboard to be exact), but they mean nothing. You went from leaving Dylan, to bar hopping to searching online for meaningless and then meaningful relationships, and now this - the one thing that you absolutely knew would be the deal breaker for you and Dylan.

What are you after?? What was the purpose of this post?? Did you honestly think that putting it on this message board would be the best way for Dylan to find out that you had one night of meaningless sex with the one person who has vowed that her goal if it takes her the rest of her life would be to make sure the 2 of you do not grow old together. Yes, Dewt Dylan has major issues with your ex wife and they are well founded and you know it better than I do even.

As for some of the questions and comments posed on this thread and other threads by different posters:

BlessedTime </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is Dylan living with the woman that she had sex with?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No she is not living with the OW at all. In fact the OW moved out of Dylan and Dewt's home a few weeks before Dewt left with mini.

LovingBoundaries </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this correct--dylan's thing with OW was with dewt's consent? And then he changed his mind at some point?

If they are married, wouldn't that make dylan's thing a POJA? Wouldn't it be necessary for BOTH of them to be enthusiastic about a revised POJA on the matter before the old POJA goes out of effect?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dewt has referenced the fact that yes the whole OW thing began with his consent, but it is my belief from knowing a bit about their personal history that there was a lot more there than just that.
Some have questioned and even scoffed at Dylan 'finding herself'

these are not her words and even in the fog of an affair I could never imagine her saying this.

What I do know is that Dylan has said to Dewt that they both need get their 'crap together' and fix themselves before they totally ruin the beautiful being that is mini.

Anyway Dewt, I know you will find this hard to believe after reading this but I do love and care for you both.
I have seen a lot of what you two have been through over the last few years and care deeply for all four of you actually -

My hope is that you will all come out of this entire mess healed and whole, the biggest question I guess for you know is when do you really start being honest?
You know like Dr. Phil says you can't change what you don't own - start owning it Dewt or it will never get better for you, mini, biggermini, and the family - regardless of what Dylan does or doesn't do at this point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Never mind the 2X4s, I need help and good advice." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I for one think you need a good spanking.

but, Patient Love just posted some great advice, that I feel the need to embolden:

You know like Dr. Phil says you can't change what you don't own - start owning it Dewt or it will never get better for you

AMEN!

Cali