Okay, I'm new to this and I don't think I will be very popular. I am a cheating husband. My wife and I have been married 11 years and we have 2 sm. kids. I was unhappy and I strayed. The A started 2 years ago. My wife found out about a 1 1/2 ago. At first, she was pissed and then I started seeing changes in her, but I think it might be too late. I still feel for my wife, but I think I might love the OW. They are so different.
For the kids sake, I say that but I think I'm still not sure about my wife. I want to try, yet again. I have done this a few times, but each time I end up seeing OW. My wife is close to what I have read as Plan B. I see it in her and I am afraid of losing her, but I don't know if I want to lose the OW either. OW has become an important part of my life. She knows me so well and I enjoy being with her. Anyway I have went 1 week without talking to OW and I think I could die. My wife is being wonderful, but I need to talk to OW. The urges are getting stronger. From what I read, if I do this I am hurting the chance to get out of the FOG. The FOG is killing me.
I am hurting both women and my kids, but I don't know what to do. The OW has become a lifeline and I can go and talk to her about anything. We laugh in a way that I don't with my wife. I am just afraid of chosing the wrong woman. I just want to be happy in life.

ITF, you won't get beat up around here but rather pleasantly surprised by the amazing support. The one thing you'll find interesting is the consistency of the responses. In your head you're thinking this is "different" and not like typical affairs. Yours is a love A. Sort of like God put you and your lover together. The stars were aligned etc. But here's the long and short of it. The OM whether married or not is looking to pull you out of your marriage and spend the rest of her life with you in wedded bliss. So the one thing you need to understand here is that you don't need to decide anything. The decision is being made for you right now. Neither the other woman or your W can go on like this indefinitely. The only thing that is still to be determined is how much damage you do to your kids and your marriage before you come out of the fog. And about that wedded bliss, about 3% of affairs lead to marriage and of those 75% fail. So start assessing the damage your doing it should be sobering. And one more thought; take a good look at those kids, your hero status is fading quickly in their eyes.

While it was easy to fall into an A, it sure is brutal extricating yourself from one. You no longer control it but rather it you. Get the help you need and go home.

WOE

Wow your story sounds so much like mine... But I am the spouse whose husband cannot stop contact with the other woman. I also have 2 children with him and one on the way. He tells me all the time he will stop contact with her but always gives in. He has not seen her in person since Dec. He feels he is in love with her and that he has lost the love he once felt for me. I just don't understand if he ever loved me or even cares about me why he cannot stop this and work on bringing back what we had and work on the things that made him seek another woman in the first place. There are days I see my old husband and there are days he is so distant... I never thought he would do this my self esteem is so low and it kills me everytime that I find out he has called her yet again. Please realize the pain your spouse is going through. Sorry can't give you to much advise just letting you know there is other people out there going through the same thing. My prayers are with you.

I am a BS responding to your concerns, so I can't tell you any of the answers that you are seeking. My H is going through what you are, so I can tell you what your W must be feeling.
First nothing hurts more than this betrayel. I wanted to lay down and die, but then you get up and you analyze everything. I did a lot of things wrong in our marriage, not that that gave him the right to cheat. I wasn't meeting his needs and I'm sure you feel the same about your W. When I recognized this, I started to repair myself and tend to what was left of a marriage, which I felt was nothing, but i had to try for myself and my baby. H resisted and kept focusing on OW to meet those needs, even though I was trying desperately. H didn't want me to meet them because why was their a need for OW. H hurt me terribly during this time. I kept being rejected, but I kept trying. God only knows why.
You said you have seen a change in your W, but is it too late?? Do you think that? You have been married 11 years and have kids. Why would it be too late to try? Your W is trying to show you what you guys have. She is trying and I bet you keep pushing her away and turning to the OW when you see your W doing the same things. Wake up before it is too late for you!!!! Your wife has endured so much at your hands, yet she is still trying. Believe me she won't forever. There is only so much one can take.

So far your W is the giver. She has suffered and yet she still must have a tremendous love for you or she would be gone. Next she has stuck by you and made changes in herself and the way she approaches the marriage. And even when you are in this FOG and I know she sees it, she is trying to be there knowing that tomorrow you may wake up and choose the OW. You have no idea what it is like feeling like a piece of meat praying that you are chosen.

Now lets take a look at the OW (Remember I am a BS, so I may see things a bit jaded, but read anyway because I am sure your W sees it this way too)
The OW is the taker. She has taken you away from your kids. How dare her!!!! She has kids of her own. She isn't thinking of anyone but herself. And that includes you. She must see what you are going through and yet she keeps letting you know she wants you. She has seen the attempts of you going back to your W, but she has never let go. How selfish.

Again this is coming from a BS, but what is the comparision????
I don't know, but I hope this gave you some food for thought. And I pray for you and your W. Just please take a close look at her and the person she must be for trying to forgive an unspeakable act.

ITF,

Sorry you are in the situation you're in but very glad you found MB.

Your wife is close to plan B because she has been hurt deeply and repeatedly. Her sense of self worth and her self image are zero. Her faith in herself and her ability to understand and control her own world is gone. She is devastated.

I read a post once where the poster asked is an A really more painful for the BS than the death of a child, or rape, or incest? Forum members replied, saying "Yes, I've lost a child and the A is much worse" or "I suffered sexual abuse as a child and this is worse". I KNOW it's painful for you but your W is literally dying inside. "Being close to plan B" means she's holding on by a bare thread.

I can't believe she's still with you when you've *repeatedly* gone back to OW.

Okay, enough about your W; let's look at you.

You feel so much love for the OW because you have been allowing her to meet your ENs. If you have not yet read about Emotional Needs then do so. The OW probably admires you, listens to you, etc. Your W can do those things too, if you give her the opportunity, and if you teach her how you need to be loved. When you help your W learn to love you, you WILL fall back in love with her. This has happened to many people here and lots more who no longer post here.

An A (and indeed the beginnings of a lasting love) are chemically the same as an addiction. The withdrawal from the OW produces the same bad feelings as withdrawals from a drug because chemically the same or similar things are going on in your body. You CAN get past it. It is very difficult but the only way forward is to bite the bullet and endure. There are ways to make this easier.

First of all, you should send a NC letter (No Contact) to the OW. This should NOT include any lovey-dovey, "maybe one day", "perhaps if things were different" type talk. It should only state:
- What you did was wrong
- You love your wife
- You are going to work on your marriage
- She should never ever contact you for any reason nor by any means

You should show this letter to your W and mail it together.

You should change cellphone numbers.
You should make all phone records available to your W.
You should make all financial records available to your W.
You should delete any emails from OW and put a rule on your account(s) blocking further emails from her.
You should share all email passwords with your W.
You should tell your W *immediately* of any contact attempted by OW.
You should offer to install spyware on your computer if your W wants you to.
You should throw away any mementos, cards, gifts, etc. associated with OW.
You should answer ALL of your W's questions with complete honesty and vulnerability.
You should read "Surviving An Affair" by Harley with your W.

You will still miss OW, even after taking the above precautions. But with the above precautions, further contact is much less likely to occur. Whenever you find yourself thinking of OW, DO SOMETHING positive for your W. Call her. Send her a card. Buy her a flower. Take her to dinner. Go to your W and tell her you're down and you need a hug.

You'll find the people on this site are very understanding of wayward spouses. They will be more than happy to offer support, understanding, and advice (hard earned advice, I might add). One thing you will NOT find is tolerance for continued involvement with OP. This is Marriage Builders, and there is no room for a third party in a marriage.

Welcome.

Inthe fog,
There is only one way for you to out of the fog and that is to CHOOSE the right way and go through the withdrawal. It sounds like you have a great opportunity for a great marriage with your wife. You KNOW all the answers because you stated them in your post. You seem to understand how clouded the A has made your thinking. Do you really think that if you left your W for the OW that you would be happy the rest of your life?

Please understand that pursuing happiness will not make you happy in the long run. Sure, you will be "in love" for a while if you chose the OW, but eventually you will be disappointed by her also. That "in love" cycle does not last. What lasts is commitment and resolve. No one can meet all you needs all the time. You mention how wonderful your wife is and how she is understanding. But you risk losing the one person who you know loves you and has not left you even when she had a perfect out.

You said you can talk to the OW about anything. I know how frustrating communication can be in married life, but it is something you need to work on and pursue. You can start the process with your W by spending time with her and really listening. You said she is changing, so go with it. So when you want to go to OW to talk, call your wife instead. Keep calling her until you reach her. You really have to commit to no contact because you will go through this turmoil until you do. Write the no contact letter and show it to your W. Give it to her to deliver and allow her to add to it.

You said you don't want to lose the wrong woman. You said the OW knows you so well. Does she really know you? Has she done your laundry and cooked your dinner? Has she taken care of your children? Has she cared for you when you were sick? Will she care for you if you get cancer or altimers? I think you know the answer to all those questions. Did you know your wife when you married her? Once you started married life and lived together, you really got to know her and she got to know you. Who has really been there for you all this time? Which one is in a fantasy world?

Happiness in life doesn't come from marrying the right person. Happiness comes from self sacrifice and commitment. Happiness comes from becoming the right person. You need to make changes as well as you W. It sounds like she is already, what about you? Please don't blow this chance with you W and family. You can love her again, you just have to choose. Instead of dwelling on the negatives about you W, dwell on the positives. Build form them and work on the other weak areas. It will take time and love on both your parts.

You can do this and we are here to help you do it. Come to this site and we will help you through withdrawal. And don't discount the fact that your W can help you through it too.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

Just what does this OW do for you...that SHE is your lifeline? What do you talk about with OW that you cannot talk about with the mother of your children and the one you promised yourself to til death do you part?

Your wife is making changes (I assume you consider them for the better). She is willing and working to save your M. You seem to be willing but cannot "unattach" yourself from this OW. You will never get over the wonderful two-year fantasy if you continue to see or call her. You will not have the love feelings return for your W if you continue to give yourself to this OW.

By admitting you're afraid to choose the wrong woman, I think you really want to do the right thing but are just as you say "in the Fog". I think you're the type of person who later down the road would not like yourself much if you did not give your M every opportunity.

I wish you much strength and the courage to do the right thing.

Hi, ITF,

I am a FWH who actually wrote very similar words to yours after my affair ended.

I went through this agony for what seemed like months. Trying to decide is maddening.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Anyway I have went 1 week without talking to OW and I think I could die. My wife is being wonderful, but I need to talk to OW. The urges are getting stronger. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are seriously jonesing for your "fix". The way the OW makes you feel is like an addiction. It's not love. Your brain is doing chemical flip-flops.

What advice would you offer someone who is trying to quit heroine or alcohol? Would you tell them to stop or just cut down? You know you have to stop seeing her.

The real trick is how you can get through the withdrawal.

- Become totally transparent and accountable to your wife. Arrange it so that it would be impossible for you to contact or spend time with your OW without your wife knowing about it. This will force you to consider your wife's response when you decide to contact your OW. This worked as a deterrent for me on many occasions.

- Find a good counselor. You'll need someone to help you deal with these feelings. Some may disagree with me, but I think it's a bit much to ask of your wife to help you "get over" the OW.

- Allow yourself to grieve. If you deny it or fight it, it'll take you that much longer to get through it.

You are so conflicted because you've seen the potential for having a great relationship with your wife. You're wife knows you a lot better than the OW does, despite what you may think and she's STILL willing to be married to you. That should count for something.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just want to be happy in life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Contrary to popular belief, life is not all about being 'happy' all the time. "Happiness" is transient state. There will always be things that will intrude on your "happiness". Kids will bring home bad grades. Cars will break down. People will die. None of these will make you happy. Does this mean you should do everything in your power to cut out situations where these things will occur? No, that's silly and you know it.

You are really seeking satisfaction in life. That only comes from one thing. Being true to yourself. Learning what your principles are and living by them. Becoming a person of integrity who can look themselves in the mirror and see someone they respect looking back.

There's no time like right now to start living that way. You'll have to make some hard decisions. Some people will be hurt. That's the cost of what you and I did.

Sometimes, doing the right thing is not about making everyone "happy" but it's always about being able to respect yourself at the end of the day.

It will take time to get through this. But the sooner you start making decisions you know are right, the sooner you will.

But you counter "How do I know what's right?"

Let's be honest, shall we. I knew what was right...I just didn't want to do it. The fact that I didn't want to do it didn't make it any less right.

You know what's right. Do it.

Low

Thanks for all the replies, but I'm still lost. I think I love the OW. She is my best friend. My W isn't. I look at the things the OW and I have done and I don't think I ever enjoyed doing them with my W. My W is a wonderful person, but what if she isn't right for me?

CoolDuck,
I don't mean to stick up for the OW, but she really felt sorry for all the pain she has caused. She needs me. I treat her better than her XH. I was there for her and her kids when he wasn't. She felt bad for my W because she too had once been there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I love the OW. She is my best friend. My W isn't. I look at the things the OW and I have done and I don't think I ever enjoyed doing them with my W. My W is a wonderful person, but what if she isn't right for me?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The OW is your "best friend" because YOU ALLOW HER TO BE. You DON'T allow your W to be your best friend. Cut OW out of your life, turn to your W, and you will be surprised. Not immediately, but in time. Look at what your W has done - stuck with you through the good and the bad (horrible!) times. You have a real gem there. Time to take care of her.

It is very common for a person involved in an A to look back on the M and swear that there were not any good times. If there were no good times, would you have married your W? Would you have had children with her? Would you have been with her for 11 years? Go pull out some old photo albums and leaf through them. Sit down with your W and talk about the good times when you were dating and first married. You'll find there were a lot of good times that you're currently repressing/ignoring.

It is always amazing to me the mis-use of words...
the changing of definitons....
all to explain and rationalize...and attempt to change the reality of the pain our actions and choices....by neatly tying it up with a pretty ribbon called ...love....

As always in all this mess...
all this redefining and mis-use of words...

there are the children...left to be hurt and in the dust....
all because of adult selfishness...

your words are chilling...

I was there for her and her kids when he wasn't....

so somehow that action justifies the abandonment of your own children...
the exact souls on this planet here and now that you should be protecting...
sold out.
disregarded
abandoned...

all to be there for her childre because he wasn't...there

how noble
how kind of you

all in the name of love...

love defined through these actions causes and brings great pain and heartache to innocents....

looking forward to forcing your children to choose and split up there holidays...

looking forward to forcing your children to being strangers when visiting YOU with your new family you are saving??

looking forward to not being there every weekend morning when they wake up...
go to sleep....

Do I believe every marraige should be saved...nope not even close...
Do I beleive people should stay for just kids...
not necessarrily ...
but what you describe here is so classic of someone taking all energy, kindness and resources they have to offer their spouse...giving it 100000% to someone else....
and claiming complete innocence in the actions that create this whole belief that she is your soul mate... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

perhaps the children are just meant to suffer so you will be happy.....

yep you are lost...
lost to yourself...
lost to your wife and children..
lost to the OW and God help us her children as well....

your being lost brings pain and chaos....and trying to fix it up by abandoning your old family to play make believe with your new family...won't fix it....

I would argue logically with you right now...
you don't know or understand the real meaning of the word love....
If you did ...it wouldn't be the word you use to describe your actions...

love is easy...
way easy....

committment
honor
respect
truth...

now those can be hard....

ARK

Dear intheFOG,

I'm sorry that you are in so much pain, but remember that you did create the situation yourself. It's excellent that you are here seeking help!!!

Every time you think of the OW as a "lifeline", remember that the other end of that lifeline has a noose on it and you keep wanting to stick your neck in it!!! It may feel nice, it might feel cozy, but the fact is, it's killing you, your marriage and eventually will be the root of many problems that your kids will face.

This OW could be ANYBODY! If you allow someone to get close, you are going to feel loved. You have to ALLOW your wife to get close and you have to quit justifying what you did with simple statements like:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was unhappy and I strayed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that were to be written in truth instead of in fog it would read:

I was unhappy with myself and I felt that another woman might be able to make me happy. I am entitled to happiness so I found another woman and emotionally abandoned my wife. My wife tried to love me after that, but I wouldn't let her get close emotionally because if I did, I might feel badly about what I've done to her and my kids. If I keep her at a distance emotionally it is easier to justify in my warped mind that what I am doing is okay, simply because I believe that I deserve to do whatever I want to do.

That doesn't really sound like a grownup talking does it? That's because it isn't. The adult in you knows this is wrong, but the adolescent in you feels justified and invincible. You need to first listen to your adult self and then let your adult self take over and act like an adult. In other words....grow up. I know that it's easier said than done. I know it's not easy to do what's right, but it can be done.

There is a men's program called The Mankind Project. The address is in my signature line. Click on it and see if there is a Warrior Weekend training in your area and if there is, do it. They will help you become the man of integrity that you long to be.

Stillwed

So...when did you start thinking your W might not right for you? Before - or after you started being there for OW and her kids?
I'm not beating you up...just want you to step into the real world a minute and think and remember. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for all the replies, but I'm still lost. I think I love the OW. She is my best friend. My W isn't. I look at the things the OW and I have done and I don't think I ever enjoyed doing them with my W. My W is a wonderful person, but what if she isn't right for me?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you're still lost. You didn't expect a post on a message board to make it all better did you? THIS WILL TAKE TIME.

I'll share something with you that may get me in hot water, but here goes...

My ex-OW was my best friend in a way I never was with my wife as well. I know this if I had left my wife to be with her, we could have built an exciting and fulfilling life together. Of course that life would now include ex's, child support, lawyers, weekend visitation, etc, etc.

There's no way you can convince me that it would have been RIGHT. The only way I could recover my self respect was to do the right thing.

I took what I learned about myself in the affair and tried to rebuild friendship with my wife. To my surprise, it actually happened!

You'll struggle with this indecision. In the end, I am at peace for choosing the "right" over the "exciting".

I still miss the OW's friendship. I probably always will. But I also know that if I hadn't crossed the line into "loverland", she'd still be my friend. So who do I have to blame?

Low

I was unhappy.
I was lost.
I am afraid.
I just want to be happy.
I want to try.

My H struggled for about a year with his decisions. Finally it came down to realizing that he wasn't going to solve his happiness problems going outside of himself...

I don't think it is happiness with which you struggle. I would guess it is contentment. How to feel content with the life you have built. How to feel content with yourself. So, you found someone else to help you fill those holes... and, that kind of 'contentment' is fleeting.

Look into yourself. Figure out what the holes are and why they are there. Why did you disconnect from your family? Figure out YOU first... THEN you will be in a place to make decisions.

You want to figure out whether or not to leave your marriage? Then do so WITHOUT a lifeline. Why do you have to go from one person to another? Can you be alone? Do you know who YOU are on your OWN two feet?

You say OW is your best friend. My H said that too. He hurt so much; he was so angry all the time.

Check out this link... Shirley Glass, "Not Just Friends"

You have did not put up good boundaries. You put in a door for somewhere else and walled up the door that your wife should have.

I can tell you from experience that the walls can come down. I spent time w/ my H. We did things together and as a family. As we talked more and focused on us, our friendship renewed. We always had love and caring and friendship. He could never say he hated me... or even disliked me. We had just grown apart and he let another in.

It will hurt to wall up that other door. But you have to decide what is important to you. And to KNOW who YOU are, is the first order of the day. How can you know what is important to you, if you don't know who you are and what you stand for.

Cali

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not beating you up...just want you to step into the real world a minute and think and remember. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, TooOld...he CAN'T step into the real world from where he is. In his current state, this is only "beating him up".

If he keeps coming back as things clear up, he'll get to point where he can see this kind of feedback for what it is meant to be. But not just now. I know...I got enough of it when I was in his shoes.

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit:

The real trick is how you can get through the withdrawal.

- Become totally transparent and accountable to your wife. Arrange it so that it would be impossible for you to contact or spend time with your OW without your wife knowing about it. This will force you to consider your wife's response when you decide to contact your OW. This worked as a deterrent for me on many occasions.

- Find a good counselor. You'll need someone to help you deal with these feelings. Some may disagree with me, but I think it's a bit much to ask of your wife to help you "get over" the OW.

- Allow yourself to grieve. If you deny it or fight it, it'll take you that much longer to get through it.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And ... may I add ... talk to your medical provider and ask to get on anti-depressants ... THAT can help soooo much with the depression part of withdrawl.

Addiction medicine uses ADs all the time.


Living like you are, unsettled, in limbo, will kill you eventually .... kill your heart and soul.

Make a choice and stick with it. This is your only healthy choice.


Pep

I to want to welcome you , it is great if you are here looking for help . I did say IF ?

First things first are you looking to save your M ? If so then there are steps here that you can take to get the ball rolling .

Now if IMVHO your here to defend the LOVE you and OW have then sorry I do not think ya ginna get the help ya need . (AGAIN JMO)

Your W has made changes , and you say you see them and at the same time bash them with It may be to late . Well if ya would have got the help ya needed BRFORE you turned to someone else then maybe just maybe it wouldn't look to late to you .

But you W didn't have much of a chance since she probbly didn't think you would turn to someone else.

Ok enough on that topic .

Ow is your best freind , makes you laugh , lifeline ,needs you her kids need you ,,,, WOW then there you have it no contest you should definately D your W and go on and be happy .

All of us deserve to be happy with our soulmates .

And I am sure that your kids will understand that , I mean this is the love of your life how can you live without her .RIGHT?

Shes fun, sexy, NEEDY!she with out a dought needs a knight in shining armor .

Your W will understand , cause after all she is just probbly some really , strong, dependable types how cooks, cleans, takes care of bills, kids and is really happy about feeling that she gave you some good years and well hey they all went to $HIT cause YOUR NEEDS WEREN"T MET !!!!

And after all the OW feels so bad , she is so moral KUDOS to her her concince kicked in AFTER SHE FU^&*& a married man .BUT oh yes she knows how horriable it is to have that done .

So she being this GREAT FUN LOVING LIFELINE rescuded you from your BIG BAD BORING W.


If this sounds harsh I want you to know that recovering your M is hard raw work !

It sounds to me like your making excuses that your W chnges are little to late cause she may bat you over the head during the recovery process and you wouldn't want her to . Well thats going to happen .

She may have made changes and thats great but hey ,,, got to let ya in on this YOU CHEATED what chnages are YOU GOING TO MAKE .

Cause if you ain't up for the work then ya better get a packin .

AND later down the raod when real life hits you and OW (you know the funny, laughing lifeline ) and your back here cause you lost everything do to FOG and lack of work I am sure no one will say told ya so .

Sorry again if you take offense , there are alot around here who will help you IF you want to repair your M and take a look at yourself .

BUT to me , when the POOR OW thing gets a fliging then well you lost me in the hole process .

You need to be willing to get rid of her or then you need to allow your W the choice to get rid of you so she can find a MAN that will see her for the wonderful WOMEN she probbly is .
GOOD LUCK TO YOU >

MY thoughts are with your W , her pain is not even describable.

Low Orbit,

Then I bow to the experts...the one's who have been in his shoes. After all, I'm only a BS...what do I know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm definitely not a "beater upper" type and don't want the reputation.

I hope you can help him.

Dear TooOld4This,

After thinking about, I think I was wrong in my last post to you. I'm sorry.

He really does need to hear what you're going through. I just don't think he's quite capable of responding to it in the way you might think he should.

So, allow me to change my tune...keep on posting your feelings. We need to hear them.

Low

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>