Dear FOG.
In your first paragraph you wrote that you have been involved with the OW for 2 years and your wife has known about it for 1 1/2.
Do you mean 1 1/2 weeks or 1 1/2 years?

I am assuming not even 2 weeks and that is far too soon for any recovery for any of you.
By the way, what is stopping the OW from contacting you? Is there someone else she is seeing? Or does she still want you to be HER husband?

This 'love addiction/affair' is probably much more powerfully hard to escape from, than any drug addiction. That is just my opinion.

It will not just 'disappear'; your feelings for this OW are your feelings and no amount of our words will make you stop caring for her.
You don't even NEED to stop caring for her, you just need to stop seeing her!

She has made you feel special for 2 years and you have made her feel the same. It is very hard for both of you to leave that thrill and excitement behind. True?

However, you know you must as the price you would pay to leave your wife and children would be TOO HIGH OF A PRICE and you could never be HAPPY knowing you caused that much hurt.

Sometimes we just have to cut ourselves from OP even though we care deeply for them.
And your reward, your wife and children's reward and even the OW's reward would be self respect and peace of mind.

Hang in there buddy...All this takes TIME.
You are in the earliest stages of withdrawal!

When my H was going through withdrawal, several times I requested he call the OW in my presence as he was SO WORRIED about her and how she was doing! I called it 'allowed contact'! (Not MB approved!)
Sincerely, Julie

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When my H was going through withdrawal, several times I requested he call the OW in my presence as he was SO WORRIED about her and how she was doing! I called it 'allowed contact'! (Not MB approved!) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow! Did he really do it? My wife made me this same offer...I never took her up on it.

Low

Please keep replying. It is helping me to sort thru things. While going thru this, my W has a difficult time making love to me. This is one of the ways I need her to be here for me. When I say that to her, she says she can't get "us" OW and me out of her mind. She wants to know specific questions about the sex part of the affair. I really don't want to share it because it is going to hurt her. Why does she want to know?

1. because she has a right to her sovereignity and to make informed decisions

2. because what she imagines haunts her more than the reality...

3. because each thing you withhold makes her an enemy to you and the OW...the one person she trusted more than any other being on this planet turned against her...and brought in a third party in the betrayal.

4. because if you value truth....then you will be truthfull

5. because to rebuild trust she has to be given actions that prove you are trustworthy.

6. because an action of the word love is truthfullness..

ark

"Why does she want to know?"

Think of your life together as one big puzzle... until you disconnected and had an affair, you both shared the pieces of the puzzle of your life.

Now, you have pieces that she doesn't have. Her puzzle is not complete. And, she doubts some of her pieces. They are not shaped right because she doesn't have the 'whole' story. She's not sure where the pieces go.

As for sexual intimacy, that's a tough one. I know I had difficulty getting 'those' pictures out of my head... somedays I STILL have troubles (yep... three years later)... I think it depends on how it was 'before.' H and I always had 'the' connection. YOU may have to do some prep work so your wife feels safe and supported and loved.

Cali

A heavy dose of reality therapy is needed, I'm afraid. You are deep within the fog:

(1) OW is your best friend? You must have some pretty pathetic friends. OW is ruining your M, your bank account and your kids. If she was any better of a friend, she would kill you.

(2) You don't love OW. You don't even know her. What have you done with her other than meet at a hotel and f*** her brains out? Have you met her family? Has she met yours? How about her friends? Has she spent time with your kids?

(3) So, let met get this straight...you have been married for 11 years, and you dated her before you got married, so you have known her for 12 years...and now you realize that you didn't enjoy being with her?

Ok, I'm a bs, and I can't tell you how to get over your little ow. But I'm going to express my opinion.

First of all, do all A have the same story line? The more I read, the more it all sounds the same. ow is your soulmate, you are "in love" but not still love your wife. Sheesh! I wish I knew about this before my h's ea. But then, I never thought my h could do something like that. He wasn't that type of person. I bet your w thought the same about you. But you have lied and cheated on the one who you said you would love forever. And don't give us you never loved your w. It just another line in the WS handbook. Go look at the fogese thread.

You are just as responsible for the problems in the marriage. YOur w is not responsible for the affair. You and ow are. Any woman who see a married man behind she's w back is a skank! Not your soulmate. YOu both forgot where you put your morals when you cheked into this little a. The real thing you have in common are lies and deceits. NO the best way to start off in a relationship.

Yes, she is so perfect in those little hidden moments. It hard for the w to be sexy when she's been up all night with a sick kid, or taking care of the boring everyday $hit that has to be done. Yea, paying bills, housework, carpooling kids can just suck the sexyness out of a lot of women. And she's only human, not some little thing you see when you can. She can't fight an illusion. That is what the ow really is. YOu don't see the person the ow is. You see the illusion, but it's just smoke and mirrors. YOu can see who the ow really is. She projecting an image to you, just as you are to her.

Bet the w has a million little quirks tht irrate the liveing $hit out of you. Guess what? So does the ow, but you have had a chance to see those yet.

The a is fantasy, marriage is real life. Diseyland is wonderful, but buddy, you can't live there. An affair is just a little time out on the real world. You can go to ow, be in your little blissful world for a little bit. But what do you do when it goes from the fantasy to real life? When the everyday things take the glow off of the relationship? Do you go on to yet another affair? Because even with this special soulmate, you'll never keep that "first in love" feeling. And you'll never have a long term realtionship if all you are seeking is the first in love feelings. To me, love is being there in good times and bad, for rich or poorer, etc. YOu know, the things you promised to your w before her and before God.

If you think you are in pain, and I know you are, think just a moment about your w. If she is like me, her heart isn't just broken, you have shreaded her life, and even more, her very being...her soul. YOu have more than paid her back for her part in the marriage problems. You have told her she is not special, she is replacable. How would you feel if she had done this to you? Would you have forgiven her?

And she has known for 1 1/2 YEARS!!! Good God!!! And you wonder why she has problems have sex with you. Have you had unprotected sex? if so, have you been tested for STDs? Shot, you are in the fog in a bad way.

It's time to nc the ow and mean it. Time to start treating your w as if you love her. I don't care if you truly feel the love, just do it. Send flowers. Tell her you're sorry. email or call her instead of ow. Tell her she's the one. If not, you'll completely drain her love bank.

Oh yea, one very big thing, answer her questions..all of them. You have hurt her, now she need to know to put the shattered pieces of her life back together. And she needs to know all of the truth to decide if she's going to stay.

Also, account for every second of your time. NO secrets of any type. After the affair is very much like post tramatic stress.

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: shay919 ]</small>

"The OW has become a lifeline and I can go and talk to her about anything"

Of course - what did you think an adulteress would do to try to lure you away from your wife and kids?

If she REALLY loved you she would not want you, your wife, or your kids to go through the suffering having an affair with you would cause.

You say you're afraid of choosing the wrong woman... and are seriously considering dumping your wife (and kids) for an adulteress?!?

And don't tell me it's not the OW's fault, that she's innocent, a good person, blah-blah-blah.

She is what she is - a dishonest homewrecker.
Don't be naive - of course she's going to pose as sweet and may even pretend she cares about your wife and kids - GAG! You aren't really that stupid are you? Your wife and kids should be able to depend on YOU to protect them from the destructive temptation such women offer.

Is sin fun? DUH! You and the OW made a choice without any regard for your wife and children. That choice brought some pleasure to you and the OW (but not to your wife and children). That choice will hurt everyone involved and you are whining about how you feel like you need to talk to the other woman, in order to make yourself feel good?

You have an addiction. You can't quit smoking by sneaking another cigarette. Every time you contact the OW you will bring more destruction to your marriage and family. And you will only delay and lengthen the withdrawal process.

Now more than ever your wife and children need you to be strong.

Each time you stick up for the OW you are slowly killing your wife. It this woman felt so bad about what she did, then why is she continuing to do it. She hasn't walked away and said she doesn't want you. She just lets you know that she is there. Did you carefully read some of the other responses?? Woman are notorious for saying what men need to hear. Especially a woman that wants something. She is intent on being a loving considerate woman. She wants to show you what you could have if you left your W. She is fixing that fantasy world so you want to go there and she did it from the start. She has aimed to please you because she wants you. What happens after she gets you?? How does she treat the father of her kids? And don't give me that he treated her terribly because look how you treated your W and she is still by your side. Do you see a kind side of the OW when it comes to that guy?? What makes you so different from him other than you are new and haven't hit life's bumps together.

And if she had been through this, then that tells you the kind of person she is, because anyone who has lived what the BS lives would never inflict it on someone else. Oh yes, my WS said it just happened. Bull !!!!! She knew what she was doing she just didn't care. She was focusing on her needs.

I can tell you from personal experience, that if you don't get your head out of the FOG soon. You are not going to be given the chance to go back to your W. You have no idea what she is going through and all the while she is supposed to support you through this. I feel bad for you, because I see what my WH is living. But I hope you wake up soon.

I saw the OW again. She works for a different firm, but our firms do business and share the same office building. I went to her area with work that needed delivered. I could have sent my sectretary, but I really needed to see her. We talked for a while and I told her that I was trying with my W. But what was I doing?
I did tell my W about it. The look on her face could of killed me. She handled in wonderfully, but I could tell that I hurt her so much. It ate at her all day, until she finally flipped out. She was accusing and mean. I know I deserve it, but how can we ever get past it if she can't let it go. She wants me to come back, but I hate that behavior. It just makes me think that maybe I am better with the OW. My W may not of changed and I don't know if she is capable of forgiving.

I am so confused , you bring this thing out to the open , and expect your W to "get over it" put it in the past and just basicly move on ?

WOW I am sorry , I know that WS are FOGGED out but GOD !

Did you reread your own post. ??

DID you get the N/C thing is the goal right now , not just the honest thing .

Its great you told your W and didn't cover that up , but are you doing it to test her ?

Are you going to continue to hurt her then expect her to suck it up ? and that will prove to you SHE CHANGED ?

ARE you really saying that the only way you think it can work with you and W is that she just GET OVER IT right now ,and forgive and trust you right now period the end ?

ARE you rading anything here that was posted to you ? DID you read this site at all ?

DO you think if you continue contact that your W is just going to sit there and say ok honey thanks for telling me you saw/FU*&*& OW I can trust you now sweetheart cause your being honest about COOSING to DISRESPECT ME ?

Recovey is not ONE SIDED , just incase you thought this was all about you ITS NOT !

YOU NEED TO CHANGE
YOU NEED TO GO N/C
YOU NEED TO EARN TRUST
YOU NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE
YOU NEED TO OWN UP TO WHAT YOU DID
YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR W FEEL SAFE, protected, #1,

HOW can someone change there actions to you if you are unwilling to stop direspecting them and cause them PAIN !!!!!!!

HELLO anyother WS /FWS out there who might be able to KNOCK on the BRICK WALL !

IntheFog,

You need to read this thread: Forgiveness

I’m sorry to say, but I think you’re acting VERY selfish towards your W. Before your W can begin the process of forgiveness she must first start to work through all the pain you have caused her… She must first work through all her emotions of grief and pain before she will be able to forgive... One must first feel the grief, anger etc. and work through these emotions before you can let go. This will be a long process and don't happen overnight. THE MOST IMPORTANT: You must firstdo something to earn your W’s forgiveness… That means you must take RESPONSIBILITY for your actions, show TRUE remorse and repentance and be willing to make amends (that means STOP contacting OW and working on your M). Right now you don’t do any of these things, so how can you expect your W to begin the process of forgiveness and letting go???

In the Fog

I am a BS and I know I have many things I can work on in my marriage. My husband also will not stop contact with OW. I start to make changes in myself for myself then he comes home and tells me he is sorry but he called her again or sometimes he doesn't have to tell me I already know. This just takes all my progress and puts it to a halt because if I am trying to change and I am really the one who got screwed and my husband is still trying to do the same stuff what makes you any better? It cannot be one sided. Do you think you are perfect and have nothing to change? What I never understand is no matter how much problems there are in a marriage what gives the other person the right to find someone else while still married? Why not just work on the problems they have and make the marriage what they want. Or break it off with their spouse before they screw around behind their back. You cannot expect your wife to just take everything you do and say and not be upset. Everytime I know my husband has talked to the other woman it kills a little part of me. I get upset. I cry.. Sometimes I say stuff to make him hurt like he is making me. Is this right? Probably not... But is he doing his part for making up for the wrong he has done and pain he has caused me... No... And it sounds like you aren't either. Sometimes I feel like giving up on him but then I look at my little boy and know I have to try because I do love my husband but does he love me when he is doing this crap? Wake up Fog before it's to late..

And how can your wife ever get past it if you won't stop seeing OW? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Just what do you hope to accomplish with your actions?

I keep reading the title of this topic and think, "Who cares if the ow is missing"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Isn't this a good thing for the couple? They won't have to worry about the ow being around if she is missing.

but how can we ever get past it if she can't let it go.
I agree. Why can't you let it go so you do not keep sticking it in your wife's face?
Quit seeing the ow.

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by intheFOG:
<strong> I saw the OW again. She works for a different firm, but our firms do business and share the same office building. I went to her area with work that needed delivered. I could have sent my sectretary, but I really needed to see her. We talked for a while and I told her that I was trying with my W. But what was I doing?
I did tell my W about it. The look on her face could of killed me. She handled in wonderfully, but I could tell that I hurt her so much. It ate at her all day, until she finally flipped out. She was accusing and mean. I know I deserve it, but how can we ever get past it if she can't let it go. She wants me to come back, but I hate that behavior. It just makes me think that maybe I am better with the OW. My W may not of changed and I don't know if she is capable of forgiving. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You go an see the ow on purpose. Then you tell your w. Then you blame the w for her reaction and that she can't get over it. So to you, it's now the w's fault and gives you a reason to go back to ow.

Give your w a break. Either commit to the marriage or get out of it.

You have not even tried any of the MB principles. First of all, NC is NC! Before you can expect w to get past it, the A needs to be in the past. It almost seems to me that you want your w to get to the point she decides to leave, so you can say, "See it's all her fault!" And you can go to the ow without taking responsiblity for your own action.

EXACTLY what SHAY said, you want a way out of your M and you want W to do it for you , so you can say she didn't work on IT .

You asked for help , at least I thought you did.

People have posted , explained things , gave you a list of things to get the ball rolling .

You come back with WHAT?

A post about , You seeing OW on purpose , and your W is a B for not being what more sensitive .

LIsten I think you got the withdrawl thing alittle HALF BAKED

FIRST ya need to STOP SEEING OW !

Then you need to understand , that during withdrawl your W will and can be there for you , but not for you to WIPE your feet on her head.

DO YOU WANT YOUR M?
ARE you the least bit remorseful for what happened?
Are you willing to work on recovering ?

Are you the least bit guilty for what YOU choses to do to your WIFE ?????????????????


ANYONE here can 2x4 me anytime but this is JMO,

People here are kind and caring ,wonderful and willing to help those who are serious in being helped . BUT no one needs there time wasted with someone who is more then willing to post about how much they want there BS to suck up for them to have the LIFE THEY WANT , with the OW .

IF you are in love with OW , then do not aste your W time , if she is a horriable person incapable of change and working with you to a happy M then by all means D her .

BUT BUDDY , don't beet up on another human being to pleasure yourself . And call it their fault that they need to change .

GO find a mirror and take a hard long look at yourself .

As a matter a fact can anyone point him to 2oak's thread about "WS FINDING THEMSELF"

I told the same thing to my husband the other night. I said he wants to leave so he is not trying like he said and keeps contacting the OW just to hurt me so I will finally leave and he can leave saying well she gave up... People like this are the worse kind.. If you want your marriage to work do what you know needs to be done. You already know it's wrong. If you want the OW so bad and she has no faults then do your wife a favor and leave...Just stop acting like she is the fault of your affair. Nobody deserves the pain this causes.

How does it feel to be so WEAK?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

O